26 réponses à ce sujet

[meteorswarm]

Then someone comes to catch me.

[loaklt1]

Always a nice feature that brings credibility; However, I think the money for such features is better spent at other aspects; Complete freedom and direct interaction with the world were never key features of a bioware game; that's something Open World Games like TES or (way better) those made by German developer PiranhaBytes should focus on.

[meteorswarm]

loaklt1 wrote...

Always a nice feature that brings credibility; However, I think the money for such features is better spent at other aspects; Complete freedom and direct interaction with the world were never key features of a bioware game; that's something Open World Games like TES or (way better) those made by German developer PiranhaBytes should focus on.

Baldur's Gate...

[loaklt1]

Didn't play that one (I know, heretical^^), however I don't think killing random NPCs is very important for the kind of games Bioware produce-especially with regard to the money every new feature costs.

[meteorswarm]

GTA and Assassin's Creed can do it too.
About money cost...

[John Epler]

That sort of feature is always best suited to true sandbox games - games where breaking the plot may be inconvenient but it's not truly detrimental to the enjoyment of the game.

That's not to say it can't be done in story games, however, but in those cases you often end up with a new person serving the exact same function - and if they're supposed to be anything other than plot-agnostic exposition fonts, you run the risk of damaging credibility a fair amount. There's a reason why Skyrim brought in Essential NPCs - you can hit them until they drop to their knees, and after a bit they'll stand back up and chase you out of the area.

It comes down, mostly, to where veracity and narrative sit on your list of priorities, and if narrative is about veracity, killing everyone who's walking around is likely not going to happen. Even STALKER, which is pretty open-world in most ways, doesn't let you pull out your gun in particular locations. You simply can't shoot a few of the NPCs.

[Allan Schumacher]

Though that immediately reminds me of:

[Dragoonlordz]

I noticed that in Skyrim too. I thought I would go kill the rebel leader but could not kill him due to requirement for story. In the end the best way to handle it is those specific NPCs should have ways of putting the player not in a position to kill them but done so in a realistic way that more specifically makes sense. I'm not keen on the god mode NPCs where can attack but not kill without any logic as to why they live still after having been beaten to pulp and slashed to pieces.

However I do not require such features in Bioware's titles as I have it in Bethesda's. Bioware (no offense) have not got the experience and skill to do such a sandbox titles of same quality but they do have the skill and ability to make great RPG's provided they stop getting sidetracked by too tight deadlines and constant urge from them to divert their franchises from RPG (elements) into pure action franchise's with less and less RPG elements each time. Though I am biased in that for the most part I only buy RPGs and on occassion a few strategy titles (turn based mostly).

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 juin 2012 - 05:00 .

[LolaLei]

Reminds me of the time I killed off every NPC in some random town in Fable 3 whilst playing in my friends world... just cos I could lol.

[LolaLei]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I noticed that in Skyrim too. I thought I would go kill the rebel leader but could not kill him due to requirement for story. In the end the best way to handle it is those specific NPCs should have ways of putting the player not in a position to kill them but done so in a realistic way that more specifically makes sense. I'm not keen on the god mode NPCs where can attack but not kill without any logic as to why they live still after having been beaten to pulp and slashed to pieces. However I do not require such features in Biowares titles as I have it in Bethesda's.

I tried to kill off Farkas after I married him because he seemed bored with married life... never could permanently kill the sod off... we had some right royal domestics going on.

... I knew I should've married his brother.

Modifié par LolaLei, 14 juin 2012 - 04:58 .

[Nomen Mendax]

I'm all for being able to kill random NPCs -- but only as long as its immediately followed by a cutscene showing you being caught by the guard and hanged.

[Brockololly]

John Epler wrote...
That's not to say it can't be done in story games, however, but in those cases you often end up with a new person serving the exact same function - and if they're supposed to be anything other than plot-agnostic exposition fonts, you run the risk of damaging credibility a fair amount.

Biff the Understudy?


I'll only say that one of my very favorite moments in New Vegas was suiting up and going on a suicide mission into the Legion camp with Boone, killing everybody within. New Vegas is probably one of the better examples I can think of of a sandbox game that makes story work while still giving you tons of freedom.

Modifié par Brockololly, 14 juin 2012 - 05:41 .

[Persephone]

LolaLei wrote...

Reminds me of the time I killed off every NPC in some random town in Fable 3 whilst playing in my friends world... just cos I could lol.

LOL, I did that too once. And once I re-entered the area while later, BOOM, there they were again.

[Dragoonlordz]

LolaLei wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I noticed that in Skyrim too. I thought I would go kill the rebel leader but could not kill him due to requirement for story. In the end the best way to handle it is those specific NPCs should have ways of putting the player not in a position to kill them but done so in a realistic way that more specifically makes sense. I'm not keen on the god mode NPCs where can attack but not kill without any logic as to why they live still after having been beaten to pulp and slashed to pieces. However I do not require such features in Biowares titles as I have it in Bethesda's.

I tried to kill off Farkas after I married him because he seemed bored with married life... never could permanently kill the sod off... we had some right royal domestics going on.

... I knew I should've married his brother.

I tried marrying a dragon using console commands but never worked.

[berelinde]

Why am I reminded of Biff the Understudy?

NVM: hit reply to the first topic without reading Brock's post above.

Modifié par berelinde, 14 juin 2012 - 08:19 .

[LolaLei]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I noticed that in Skyrim too. I thought I would go kill the rebel leader but could not kill him due to requirement for story. In the end the best way to handle it is those specific NPCs should have ways of putting the player not in a position to kill them but done so in a realistic way that more specifically makes sense. I'm not keen on the god mode NPCs where can attack but not kill without any logic as to why they live still after having been beaten to pulp and slashed to pieces. However I do not require such features in Biowares titles as I have it in Bethesda's.

I tried to kill off Farkas after I married him because he seemed bored with married life... never could permanently kill the sod off... we had some right royal domestics going on.

... I knew I should've married his brother.

I tried marrying a dragon using console commands but never worked.

Hahaha! Imagine the children born from that joining!

Modifié par LolaLei, 14 juin 2012 - 08:47 .

[Cyne]

Loved how you could kill absolutely anyone in Morrowind, as well as steal their stuff and take over their houses if you wanted to! Sure, it could potentially mess up the story, but that was true freedom. I'd love if dragon age incorporated something similar.

[Jonathan Seagull]

 Coincidentally enough, I was tvtroping Arcanum today, which is still one of my favorites in terms of sheer "Wow, I can't believe I can do that" awesomeness.  You can kill a great many of the NPCs in the game, including ones that have important information to give you.  I was reminded that even so, you can often still get the information.  If they don't have something on their corpse, you can sometimes use a spell to conjure their spirit and interrogate it.

Also, when I was playing an evil character, if a companion got on my nerves I would kill them and then reanimate them as a mindless zombie to continue fighting for me.  This totally cut off all their content of course, and I'm pretty sure they couldn't use weapons, but it was still neat.  Not that I expect that kind of thing from Dragon Age, but it's a lot of fun discovering those sorts of possibilities in a game.

Modifié par Jonathan Seagull, 14 juin 2012 - 11:12 .

[Nefla]

Maybe not being able to kill most npcs like in Skyrim, but I really liked the murder-knife in DA:O and being able to kill a surprising number of random people (like Lloyd for one!)

[Vormaerin]

Cyne wrote...

Loved how you could kill absolutely anyone in Morrowind, as well as steal their stuff and take over their houses if you wanted to! Sure, it could potentially mess up the story, but that was true freedom. I'd love if dragon age incorporated something similar.

Whereas I find it boring if the world doesn't react to it.   "Oh look, I stole another bazillion gold worth of unique items.  No one will ever know where they came from as long as I sell them across the street."

[Dragoonlordz]

Vormaerin wrote...

Cyne wrote...

Loved how you could kill absolutely anyone in Morrowind, as well as steal their stuff and take over their houses if you wanted to! Sure, it could potentially mess up the story, but that was true freedom. I'd love if dragon age incorporated something similar.

Whereas I find it boring if the world doesn't react to it.   "Oh look, I stole another bazillion gold worth of unique items.  No one will ever know where they came from as long as I sell them across the street."

Any game that allows a person to stick a bucket or pot on an NPC's head so you could steal and not be seen is a great game (imho). Any perceived flaw in the rest of the game relating to killing NPC's is over-ruled by that pure epicness. But like I said I do not require Bioware's products to allow killing anyone I want as that aspect of gameplay is covered by Bethesda's titles and is far better suited to sandbox open world type titles.

There are many elements I would love Bioware to learn from other developers includng Bethesda and CDP-R but this is not one of them that I desire, for example I have gone on many times mentioning the living world element from nature, wildlife and weather to NPC's with lives outside of mere reaction to main protaganists actions or presence and more such as night and day that is not a mere on and off switch. These things I would rather Bioware see if they could incorporate. The essence of living world but also a desire to see them focus far more on the world itself, lore and enviroment plus settings not just reliance on the companions and key main characters alone with everything else taking a back seat.

Immersion not just as a protaganist but also a place and setting, world he or she inhabits being given more importance and while DAO was not perfect it did this better than DA2. An example would be for instance items in DA2 were 95% trash/junk with no descriptions and no value which is just one of many sort of things I mean. Every one of those items if had descriptions whether funny or lore, story or character related they need to have value or they have no reason to exist in first place. A lot of people including myself play RPG's to experience the world a developer creates not just go from a to b to c just because it ticks off another thing in your to do list meaning plot quests.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 juin 2012 - 10:52 .

[TEWR]

Grand Theft Dragon: The Mage-Templar War.

[wsandista]

Well this thread title isn't disturbing at all.

[ashwind]

I wish I could as well - especially those NPC who talks me down.

As for Skyrim.... NO, freedom in Skyrim is a LIE! You cannot kill the most annoying characters. All the characters I WANT to kill very badly in Skyrim are marked as "essential". Boooo Bethesda, shame on you.

[LadyMarisa]

Any game that allows a person to stick a bucket or pot on an NPC's head so you could steal and not be seen is a great game (imho).

....
I'm horrified. HOW did I never think to try that??? All of the things I've done in those games and that never occurred to me. I'm ashamed of myself.... Now I want to go back, replay them and do that

As far as killing NPCs go, while I like that (if the world reacts to it somehow), it's not going to impact DA3 for me. In Sandbox games I tend to play pretty evil but in games like this I tend to play pretty good and often can't bring myself to do random evil things like that. I get into my character, even if that character has been pre determined for me. I suppose in the end it would depend on the story. If I'm influenced to go evil (like finding out about yourself halfway through KOTOR) I might enjoy a feature like that. Most likely though it's not something I'd engage in.