248 réponses à ce sujet

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

neteng101 wrote...

FPSBlake wrote...

I'm not sure exactly why I see so many complaints about infiltrators.

  But since you asked, I figured you deserve an honest answer.

Then why didn't you give it to him? 

[Veedrock]

neteng101 wrote...

Oh its mostly simply because those that care less for playing an infiltrator want to see a class they don't enjoy playing as much be made less effective so their own preferences can shine brighter - co-op to most people seem to be mostly about me me me, and the team is just there to help me out.  If they get in my way, then they're bad teammates, and so we must nerf the class they like playing.

Its all rather grade school-ish stuff.  But since you asked, I figured you deserve an honest answer.

I enjoy Infiltrator and play it regularly, still think Tactical Cloak needs to be nerfed hard. Post-nerf, I will still play the class. Try again.

Modifié par Veedrock, 14 juin 2012 - 07:06 .

[xtorma]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

whateverman7 wrote...

the only problem is that people are getting outscored by infiltrators on a consistent basis....if that didnt happen, then no one would complain about infiltrators.....

Your so wrong, why do you ignore what we argue and continue to pull out justifications out your ass? 

There is so much wrong with this sentence.

[neteng101]

Veedrock wrote...

I enjoy Infiltrator and play it regularly, still think Tactical Cloak needs to be nerfed hard. Post-nerf, I will still play the class. Try again.

You do realize there are alternate evolutions so they wouldn't need to nerf it even, and you'd still be able to reduce the effectiveness yourself?  And if you really want to challenge yourself, just don't even assign all the points for a Level 20.

Maybe I should add in a 2nd reason then - those that are bored because they've gotten so good playing the game, that just wants the game to be made harder for them (but don't realize they can do a lot of that on their own).

Different camps, but once again, its still the me me me syndrome!

[DnVill]

Infiltrator is easy mode.

don't care if they nerf it or not.

Modifié par DnVill, 14 juin 2012 - 07:17 .

[Cosmo G. Spacely]

DnVill wrote...

Infiltrator is easy mode.

don't care if they nerf it or not.

The amount of geth and salarains infs. i come across are 

Modifié par Cosmo G. Spacely, 14 juin 2012 - 07:19 .

[Pitznik]

neteng101 wrote...

Veedrock wrote...

I enjoy Infiltrator and play it regularly, still think Tactical Cloak needs to be nerfed hard. Post-nerf, I will still play the class. Try again.

You do realize there are alternate evolutions so they wouldn't need to nerf it even, and you'd still be able to reduce the effectiveness yourself?  And if you really want to challenge yourself, just don't even assign all the points for a Level 20.

Maybe I should add in a 2nd reason then - those that are bored because they've gotten so good playing the game, that just wants the game to be made harder for them (but don't realize they can do a lot of that on their own).

Different camps, but once again, its still the me me me syndrome!

Do you realize that games is supposed to be balanced for everyone? Have you read the post by Eric Fagnan? Domination of one playstyle is bad, according to Bioware too. It's not "don't like it, don't play it/leave the lobby/play private".

[Omega2079]

Veedrock wrote...

It's not fun to have a single dominating force/strategy in the game.

I just don't see that happening from class/weapon selection. Spawn point anticipation on the other hand is something I see being a major factor to domination of a game.

[Poison_Berrie]

FPSBlake wrote...

A 4 second cooldown does nothing. If you run a claymore you're above 4 seconds anyway and it has little effect to overall effectiveness. 

I mean on non-infiltrator classes. 

[DnVill]

the problem with Infiltrators is that there's too many of them and only 1/10 are actually decent players.

Joining matches will yield at least 2 infiltrators and the chance that one of those infiltrators is good is as much chance as getting a gear upgrade and 2 URs in a single PSP


Infiltrator is a attractive class to play because of their get out of trouble free card. Not to mention they dont get shot at as often.


so basically easy mode.

Modifié par DnVill, 14 juin 2012 - 07:42 .

[Feauce]

SkyeHawk89 wrote...

We had this type of issue in SOCOM back than. You would get kicked out for using a type of weapon. It really sucks. I paid for the game so you can do whatever you like.

This issue is in every shooter. Simple-minded fools hate snipers, and the arrogant believe anyone that doesn't play "their" game the way they do sucks. This is just more of the same BS as always.

[Omega2079]

DnVill wrote...

the problem with Infiltrators is that there's too many of them and only 1/10 are actually decent players.

Joining matches will yield at least 2 infiltrators and the chance that one of those infiltrators is good is as much chance as getting a gear upgrade and 2 URs in a single PSP


Infiltrator is a attractive class to play because of their get out of trouble free card. Not to mention they dont get shot at as often.


so basically easy mode.

I haven't been seeing too many of them recently. Adepts, and soldiers mostly.

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

if you do play your way there can still be a lot of risk. 
>You could be a Kroguard who charge into a phantom while using her blue hand of death=dead
>You could charge into range of a turret that was around the corner=dead
>You could charge into a Marauder who does not stagger and melees you=dead unless kroguard


There's always a certain element of risk when charging even if you do it defensivley expecially if your not host. 

There's also risks when using TC. Run to close to an enemy, for example when going to revive an ally? You're going to get shot. Revived him/her without incident anyway? Cloak's gone, you're now a prime target for whatever downed said ally. Or it could happen that the enemies will see you anyway, or the Cloak will deactivate right away, as it happens sometimes. No ability is perfect, and not hosting causes even more problems for everyone.

[KarmaTheAlligator]

DnVill wrote...

the problem with Infiltrators is that there's too many of them and only 1/10 are actually decent players.

Joining matches will yield at least 2 infiltrators and the chance that one of those infiltrators is good is as much chance as getting a gear upgrade and 2 URs in a single PSP


Infiltrator is a attractive class to play because of their get out of trouble free card. Not to mention they dont get shot at as often.


so basically easy mode.

And yet, you admit that even with that "easy mode", only 1/10th of the Infiltrator population is decent. Which would mean that it depends on the player, not the class, and that just because that 1/10h plays well doesn't mean you need to change anything about the class and potentially ruin it for the 9/10th.

[xsuckafreee]

The cloak doesn't actually make you invisible. I've been downed a few times while cloaked. So it doesn't give you a free get out of trouble card.

[Kalas Magnus]

Tactical cloak is NOT the problem. A human, Quarian Female, or salarian are good but do not come any where near as good as the GI. He is the real reason people complain. Before he came along the Biotics were better than the infiltrators. Now we have a character that can 1 shot every enemy on the map and take out entire spawns with proxy+melee. Not to mention he can see through walls letting him move around the map efficiently while the rest of the team takes all the aggression.

[TehMerc]

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...
Should Biotic Charge be nerfed?

I'm just gonna have to laugh at this for awhile. It's cute that Biotic Charge seems to annoy infiltrators so much.

Fear the Novaguard! Loool.

Just funny as all hell when that's all that people can come up with when people universally hate taking a vanguard because there's a good chance they won't be able to help the whole game if charge bugs out, not even speaking for all the other random crap you deal with when novaguarding.

I've been trolled.

[KarmaTheAlligator]

TehMerc wrote...

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...
Should Biotic Charge be nerfed?

I'm just gonna have to laugh at this for awhile. It's cute that Biotic Charge seems to annoy infiltrators so much.

Fear the Novaguard! Loool.

Just funny as all hell when that's all that people can come up with when people universally hate taking a vanguard because there's a good chance they won't be able to help the whole game if charge bugs out, not even speaking for all the other random crap you deal with when novaguarding.

I've been trolled.

Did you just take that out of context just to satisfy yourself? I mentioned a unique ability that only one class can use, and get a huge boost out of it, as a counter to TC having a unique effect and granting a huge boost to the class, and yet only TC is the target of so much ire. See? Isn't it better when there's context?

And for the record, I have nothing agains Biotic Charge. Sniper bullet still go faster that it, and the Vanguard still gets his shield replenished even if the target happens to have died during the Charge. It's a win-win.

[Omega2079]

Kalas321 wrote...

Now we have a character that can 1 shot every enemy on the map...

How is this done?

[Kalas Magnus]

Omega2079 wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

Now we have a character that can 1 shot every enemy on the map...

How is this done?

Claymore.
Meant to edit every enemy except bosses. And he can kill an atlas in 3 shots.

Modifié par Kalas321, 14 juin 2012 - 08:18 .

[Xaijin]

Veedrock wrote...

neteng101 wrote...

Oh its mostly simply because those that care less for playing an infiltrator want to see a class they don't enjoy playing as much be made less effective so their own preferences can shine brighter - co-op to most people seem to be mostly about me me me, and the team is just there to help me out.  If they get in my way, then they're bad teammates, and so we must nerf the class they like playing.

Its all rather grade school-ish stuff.  But since you asked, I figured you deserve an honest answer.

I enjoy Infiltrator and play it regularly, still think Tactical Cloak needs to be nerfed hard. Post-nerf, I will still play the class. Try again.

Pretty much. The risk reward scheme for most inf build types is pretty skewed. Meanwhile the other classes with zero team synergy, the Krogan sentinel and Quarian Engineer are still at the back of the bus. Making incinerate not crap and like the single player version would be a step in the right direction, but wouldn't even begin to address the other synergy and utlity issues. The KS isn't even really a sentinel at all, it's gunnade platform with legs. For every other class, even Sents and Vanguards, opting out of the "signature" power might decrease your utility or tactical options, but it won't affect your overall synergy. With infiltrators this isn't remotely the case. They're two click murder hobos, and it's really hard to get around this.

While there SHOULD be a stealth class, and there should be an easy to use class, they don't necessarily have to be the same thing. And the insane amount of spike damage an inf brings isn't matchable by any other class under any circumstances, even an AA or HS, especially with weight bearing concerns.

Modifié par Xaijin, 14 juin 2012 - 08:17 .

[Grunt_Platform]

The Infiltrator is a little bit of a balance problem. Because of the immense bonuses from tactical cloak they benefit more from every consumable and every weapon in the game than other classes do. Buffs intended to enhance other classes help Infiltrators more. For example: The Strength Enhancer helps Geth Infiltrators a lot more than it helps krogan and batarians. And they're not as squishy as most people believe, meaning defensive consumables help them a lot, perhaps more than other classes since it's easier for them to milk every point of shields. To make matters worse, Infiltrators are the easiest classes to use.

Personally I'd prefer to see the other classes buffed to compete better with Infiltrators, but that's tricky when every new toy given to other classes is better in the hands of an Infiltrator. The Krysae and Hunter Mode nerfs are both direct consequences of the Infiltrator's unmatched synergy. It's not that any one thing they have is too powerful, it's just that they can make more out of every small advantage than any other class.

...and I like playing Infiltrator, and usually top score boards. But I often feel guilty doing so as Geth Infiltrator, as it kills so many things so quickly and effectively I have to deliberately handicap myself to let my team mates get a chance to do anything. On Gold.

Edit:
Just for some examples: Want to add a new gun that's really powerful for Soldiers or Sentinels? Well, Infiltrators will use it better. Want to buff Energy Drain or Proxy Mine to help the offense of Turian Soldier and Salarian Engineer? You're making SI and GI exponentially stronger.  Want something like Phasic Rounds to bypass shield gate? Infiltrators are the only class that would ever use it, so they can one-shot everything in the game using the Javelin. Want to balance a powerful new gun by making it heavy?  Infiltrators won't care unless it weighs as much or more than the Javelin. Make a powerful full-auto gun that actually has good DPS for Soldiers? Infiltrators will love it. Powerful gun with limited range? Guess which class has the easiest time entering and exiting close range fights.

I don't think they're exactly over powered as is, but it's hard to imagine what Bioware could add to the game without just make them even stronger than they already are.

Modifié par EvanKester, 14 juin 2012 - 08:50 .

[DnVill]

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...

DnVill wrote...

the problem with Infiltrators is that there's too many of them and only 1/10 are actually decent players.

Joining matches will yield at least 2 infiltrators and the chance that one of those infiltrators is good is as much chance as getting a gear upgrade and 2 URs in a single PSP


Infiltrator is a attractive class to play because of their get out of trouble free card. Not to mention they dont get shot at as often.


so basically easy mode.

And yet, you admit that even with that "easy mode", only 1/10th of the Infiltrator population is decent. Which would mean that it depends on the player, not the class, and that just because that 1/10h plays well doesn't mean you need to change anything about the class and potentially ruin it for the 9/10th.

I don't really care about it being OP or not. So I don't belong to any pro-nerf anti-nerf party. So don't label me as "pro-nerf". 


Note:
If you justify anti-nerfing as "just because I score more than you doesn't mean it needs nerf" then your part of that 9/10 of  Infiltrators.

Score doesn't mean anything. Not shooting a boss and when it gets low, shooting once to kill it will yield you 1k points easy. This goes out to all classes as well. SCORE DOESN'T MEAN CRAP!

[DnVill]

TehMerc wrote...

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...
Should Biotic Charge be nerfed?

I'm just gonna have to laugh at this for awhile. It's cute that Biotic Charge seems to annoy infiltrators so much.

Fear the Novaguard! Loool.

Just funny as all hell when that's all that people can come up with when people universally hate taking a vanguard because there's a good chance they won't be able to help the whole game if charge bugs out, not even speaking for all the other random crap you deal with when novaguarding.

I've been trolled.

Maybe I'll switch to Novaguard if  i get a 3 infiltrator team.