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[KarmaTheAlligator]

DnVill wrote...

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...

DnVill wrote...

the problem with Infiltrators is that there's too many of them and only 1/10 are actually decent players.

Joining matches will yield at least 2 infiltrators and the chance that one of those infiltrators is good is as much chance as getting a gear upgrade and 2 URs in a single PSP


Infiltrator is a attractive class to play because of their get out of trouble free card. Not to mention they dont get shot at as often.


so basically easy mode.

And yet, you admit that even with that "easy mode", only 1/10th of the Infiltrator population is decent. Which would mean that it depends on the player, not the class, and that just because that 1/10h plays well doesn't mean you need to change anything about the class and potentially ruin it for the 9/10th.

I don't really care about it being OP or not. So I don't belong to any pro-nerf anti-nerf party. So don't label me as "pro-nerf". 


Note:
If you justify anti-nerfing as "just because I score more than you doesn't mean it needs nerf" then your part of that 9/10 of  Infiltrators.

Score doesn't mean anything. Not shooting a boss and when it gets low, shooting once to kill it will yield you 1k points easy. This goes out to all classes as well. SCORE DOESN'T MEAN CRAP!

I didn't mean you especially, that was a general "you" (the second one, when I talk about changing something). And I know score doesn't mean crap, that was never in question. What is in question is your labelling the class as easy mode. Just because I do well with the class (I'd consider myself in those 1/10), and it's my favourtie, doesn't mean everybody does the same, so I wouldn't change it to not make in any harder on those 9/10th. That goes for all other class, too, by the way. I understand that some players will be better, some will be worse. Doesn't mean a class is unbalanced (but some combo of class/race/weapon/good player will be).

[whateverman7]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Your so wrong, why do you ignore what we argue and continue to pull out justifications out your ass? 

lol ok...i didnt argue cause there is nothing to argue...the class isnt overpowered, and people are only complaining cause they are being outscored....look at all the threads complaining about them, that's what it always boils down to....it seems a lot of people care about their score and placement on the board....

[Tankcommander]

T1l wrote...

Schadenfreude, mostly.

I honestly think this is a case of people taking pleasure in the misfortunes of others. It's not about balance, or people would be asking Bioware to 'buff' things. It's about taking something away from someone else, and it rustles my jimmies.

And about multiple threads being posted? It is by the same guys. One in particular has posted three of them in the last two days.

[DnVill]

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...

DnVill wrote...

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...

DnVill wrote...

the problem with Infiltrators is that there's too many of them and only 1/10 are actually decent players.

Joining matches will yield at least 2 infiltrators and the chance that one of those infiltrators is good is as much chance as getting a gear upgrade and 2 URs in a single PSP


Infiltrator is a attractive class to play because of their get out of trouble free card. Not to mention they dont get shot at as often.


so basically easy mode.

And yet, you admit that even with that "easy mode", only 1/10th of the Infiltrator population is decent. Which would mean that it depends on the player, not the class, and that just because that 1/10h plays well doesn't mean you need to change anything about the class and potentially ruin it for the 9/10th.

I don't really care about it being OP or not. So I don't belong to any pro-nerf anti-nerf party. So don't label me as "pro-nerf". 


Note:
If you justify anti-nerfing as "just because I score more than you doesn't mean it needs nerf" then your part of that 9/10 of  Infiltrators.

Score doesn't mean anything. Not shooting a boss and when it gets low, shooting once to kill it will yield you 1k points easy. This goes out to all classes as well. SCORE DOESN'T MEAN CRAP!

I didn't mean you especially, that was a general "you" (the second one, when I talk about changing something). And I know score doesn't mean crap, that was never in question. What is in question is your labelling the class as easy mode. Just because I do well with the class (I'd consider myself in those 1/10), and it's my favourtie, doesn't mean everybody does the same, so I wouldn't change it to not make in any harder on those 9/10th. That goes for all other class, too, by the way. I understand that some players will be better, some will be worse. Doesn't mean a class is unbalanced (but some combo of class/race/weapon/good player will be).

fair enough. This Infiltrator OP or not will be an unending debate. sigh. 

[whateverman7]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Name a con for the infilly whe compared to other classes.

a con: it cant take damage worth anything....in most cases, a couple shots and they are in big trouble

i know it defies belief but the class isnt overpowered and it isnt untouchable....just like everything in this game, it has pros/cons, so it boils down to the player and how he/she uses it...

the only thing the class does better then the other classes is it allows players to play mp like sp because of the cloak...that's it

[KarmaTheAlligator]

DnVill wrote...

This Infiltrator OP or not will be an unending debate. sigh. 

Until something else comes along to replace it. The new DLC, perhaps?

[Mulehorn117]

Doesn't matter to me because if WE do good we get more credits!!

[Beerfish]

whateverman7 wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Name a con for the infilly whe compared to other classes.

a con: it cant take damage worth anything....in most cases, a couple shots and they are in big trouble

i know it defies belief but the class isnt overpowered and it isnt untouchable....just like everything in this game, it has pros/cons, so it boils down to the player and how he/she uses it...

the only thing the class does better then the other classes is it allows players to play mp like sp because of the cloak...that's it

Being able to cloak while being squishy and get massive damage bonuses are pretty big.  My Drell adept is pretty damn squishy but has no bial out cloak device so to speak.

The problem with Infils is two fold.
1)  They are super popular amongst the players thus in most matches you have one or two in a public game.  People were talking about biotic groups and how effective they are.  Very rarely do I end up in a group with another biotic it seems.
2)  People like the op says who cares about scores when it is mp game and we are there to have fun.  would they say the same thing if they suddenly were 3rd or 4th on every single mission?

Believe it or not, even in a mp game people want to contribute to a kill total at the end of a game and far too many people only look at a score to determine how people did in a game.

[whateverman7]

Miniditka77 wrote...

Unless I'm WAY better than I think I am, then I'm not wrong.  I usually am #2 or #3 when I'm playing with a decent group with any other class.  With an infiltrator, I'm almost always #1.  Infiltrators deal more damage and avoid damage better than any other class.  I don't see what the "cons" of the infiltrator are.

you probably are better then you think....about the inflitrator: you're wrong though, trust me....yes it's easy to score with infiltrators, but it's easy to score with any class.....it's all in how you, the player, use the class....it's all in how you spec it, what weapons you choose, and your play style....

these games you came in first: was everything the same? i mean, the people you played with, the classes/weapons they used, the enemies, the maps, etc....if not, you cant just say it was cause of infiltrator you came in first....like i said: you're probably better then you give yourself credit for

[DnVill]

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...

DnVill wrote...

This Infiltrator OP or not will be an unending debate. sigh. 

Until something else comes along to replace it. The new DLC, perhaps?

new weapons where infiltrators will still use. Same debate will resurface.

[whateverman7]

Beerfish wrote...

Being able to cloak while being squishy and get massive damage bonuses are pretty big.  My Drell adept is pretty damn squishy but has no bial out cloak device so to speak.

The problem with Infils is two fold.
1)  They are super popular amongst the players thus in most matches you have one or two in a public game.  People were talking about biotic groups and how effective they are.  Very rarely do I end up in a group with another biotic it seems.
2)  People like the op says who cares about scores when it is mp game and we are there to have fun.  would they say the same thing if they suddenly were 3rd or 4th on every single mission?

Believe it or not, even in a mp game people want to contribute to a kill total at the end of a game and far too many people only look at a score to determine how people did in a game.

your drell adapt has reave which helps it take damage....also, your drell adapt can take out a lot more enemies at one time then the infiltrator can too, does that mean it's overpowered?

as for your problems:

1) yea, it's popular, but that's cause of the sheep mentality of this community....a lot in this community like to follow builds, gameplay styles, etc. of others they think are good at the game....that's why so many complain about the game needing 'balance'....when in fact the problem isnt balance, it's the lack of others willing to try things out for themselves, instead of following

2) contributing and being 1st on the board are two different things....people can contribute and not be 1st....but that's what it all boils down to: score...a lot of people in this community care about their placement and score on the board, even though the team gets the same amount of pts & credit....there is no fix bw can do for that...

[Grunt_Platform]

Just for the record: Infiltrators have the same health and shields as other classes of the same race. The only squishy Infiltrator is the geth with Hunter Mode on.

An Infiltrator is exactly as "squishy" as any other class with the same number of points in Fitness.

[KarmaTheAlligator]

DnVill wrote...

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...

DnVill wrote...

This Infiltrator OP or not will be an unending debate. sigh. 

Until something else comes along to replace it. The new DLC, perhaps?

new weapons where infiltrators will still use. Same debate will resurface.

Dammit, why do you have to make sense? 

[Beerfish]

whateverman7 wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Being able to cloak while being squishy and get massive damage bonuses are pretty big.  My Drell adept is pretty damn squishy but has no bial out cloak device so to speak.

The problem with Infils is two fold.
1)  They are super popular amongst the players thus in most matches you have one or two in a public game.  People were talking about biotic groups and how effective they are.  Very rarely do I end up in a group with another biotic it seems.
2)  People like the op says who cares about scores when it is mp game and we are there to have fun.  would they say the same thing if they suddenly were 3rd or 4th on every single mission?

Believe it or not, even in a mp game people want to contribute to a kill total at the end of a game and far too many people only look at a score to determine how people did in a game.

your drell adapt has reave which helps it take damage....also, your drell adapt can take out a lot more enemies at one time then the infiltrator can too, does that mean it's overpowered?

as for your problems:

1) yea, it's popular, but that's cause of the sheep mentality of this community....a lot in this community like to follow builds, gameplay styles, etc. of others they think are good at the game....that's why so many complain about the game needing 'balance'....when in fact the problem isnt balance, it's the lack of others willing to try things out for themselves, instead of following

There is a sheep mentality for one reason, it is the best class for the average player to get a lot of kills.  My Drell on his own up against and infil will not oftenwin the war of kills.

2) contributing and being 1st on the board are two different things....people can contribute and not be 1st....but that's what it all boils down to: score...a lot of people in this community care about their placement and score on the board, even though the team gets the same amount of pts & credit....there is no fix bw can do for that...

For me I could care less about where I am on the board for the most part but the very existence of a score board at the end instills a level of contribution.  How many times have people talked about 'carrying'  lesser players usually with screenie showing how they blew the rest of the group away.  When you have one class that appears to dominate in how many people play it and leading the score board there is a class balance problem. 

[Daihannya]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
1.Drell are two of the most powerful classes in the game. 

2.The asari adept is not just as good. It does not have the same insane weapon damage, it is affected by weight, it can't avoid all enemy fire and reposition itself every 10 secs making it almost impossible to lose with, it can not revive teamates with little risk, and it can not solo objectives with ease.

I think you insulted my AA. I don't play infiltrators.   I play the AA alot, and enjoy playing her.  Because of this I have become very proficient with her.  I am consistently out scoring, or scoring very close to infiltrators, and very good infiltrators.   Paired with a drell or justicar that spams reave.  We will always outscore them. 

I agree with your points that I can't revive without risk, or solo without risk.   But if we succeed as non infiltrators doesn't that mean we are more skilled.  

A good infiltrator knows their role. They know we are taking agro and will do objects, and revives.   Even bad ones, I can say on random games can you go do the objective or revivie, I'm pinned down.   It is also the group DPS that makes gold games go faster.  So I say leave them alone.  

[whateverman7]

Beerfish wrote...


There is a sheep mentality for one reason, it is the best class for the average player to get a lot of kills.  My Drell on his own up against and infil will not oftenwin the war of kills.

For me I could care less about where I am on the board for the most part but the very existence of a score board at the end instills a level of contribution.  How many times have people talked about 'carrying'  lesser players usually with screenie showing how they blew the rest of the group away.  When you have one class that appears to dominate in how many people play it and leading the score board there is a class balance problem. 

naw, there's a sheep mentailty cause people are weak minded....trust me, you can get a lot of kills with any class in this game....it's all in how you use the class....

you might not care, but it's obvious a lot of others do, just look at the boards....or when playing public games, look at how people are playing or listen to what they say......many care about score.....and you're taking people talking about carrying the wrong way...they are just doing that to show off, brag....

there is not a class balance problem...you can lead the scoreboard with any class....and all the classes have pros/cons....just cause people are using what many consider the easy way, doesnt mean there is a balance problem...finding the easy way has gone on in gaming way before me3..... and it will continue well after me3....

[Poison_Berrie]

whateverman7 wrote...

a con: it cant take damage worth anything....in most cases, a couple shots and they are in big trouble

So are over half of the classes.

[CrashLegacy]

The Infiltrator can generally a annoyance to play with. Let me explain:

Say you've got your Quaraian Engineer out with a CC weapon like the falcon, Cyro ammo, Cyroblast maxed and and incinerate to break things apart. you know that you can lockdown an entire spawn between your cyroblasts, freezing bullets and cyro bursts. What happens? The infiltrator sets up shop next to you as you start kiting, he starts one shooting everything that freezes since he's using his sniper rifle for this there's no Cyro Burst and try as you might you can't keep the group locked down because of it. But that's okay right? At least you're not the only one drawing fire ...wait why haven't you seen even one of these snots shoot at him?

Or how about when they it there back a bit from cover popping shots off with impunity while you take cover and ..the cover. Atlas fires his missile! you duck down behind cover so the missile will ....fly pass the cover to hit the infiltrator and catch you in the blast. (course this actually applies to anyone but I notice infiltrators tend to believe the missile can't track them if they cloak during it's flight.)

You go down because X enemy shot/cut/looked at you the wrong way, said enemy is a close range unit an you're in a corner, it's sitting nearby and suddenly you're being revived by the infiltrator. but wait, you're still stuck in the corner because he didn't need to clear the mob blocking your escape to get to you thanks to his sexy cloaking ability. as such you just start getting brutalized by said enemy and you can't do jack about it because you're trapped in a corner.

For every infiltrator in the party there will be one less person your biotic can actually synergize with.

you get stuck in a group with 3 infiltrators. you spend the majority of the game watching others' screen since all enemy units where focused on your visual butt and after the third or so time being downed the infiltrators stopped picking you up. even your mighty kroguard or sentinel speced for tanking can't survive the onslaught.

Gear, Powers, Weapons (Sniper rifles especially); they all constantly get balanced versus the Infiltrator. Weapons that where effective and fun get nerfed so they are "just right" in the hands of a cloaked Infiltrator and you're left with a bitter taste afterward.

An Infiltrator can use more damaging/effective version of tech powers then your engineer because of tactical cloak.

I could probably come up with more. but that's enough negative thoughts for now.

[nicethugbert]

FPSBlake wrote...

 I'm not sure exactly why I see so many complaints about infiltrators. They do a lot of damage and can slip enemies but who cares? Aren't co op Games about fun? It just blows my mind to see so many people complaining about somone on their team being too good. I mean really all an infiltrator nerf would do is make another useless class and lead players to find something else just as good.If you don't like infiltrators don't play in lobbies with them it's that simple. Complaining about a class so it gets nerfed won't make you any better at the game so who cares. Let's just let things be and have fun.

Try playing as the only non-infiltrator on the team on gold.  Tell me how you like being a decoy or bullet sponge.

[Major Durza]

Its a problem because weapons like the Krysae are going to be nerfed into the ground because it is rediculously overpowered with a 180% or more damage increase given by Tactical Cloak.

[KarmaTheAlligator]

CrashLegacy wrote...

The Infiltrator can generally a annoyance to play with. Let me explain:

Say you've got your Quaraian Engineer out with a CC weapon like the falcon, Cyro ammo, Cyroblast maxed and and incinerate to break things apart. you know that you can lockdown an entire spawn between your cyroblasts, freezing bullets and cyro bursts. What happens? The infiltrator sets up shop next to you as you start kiting, he starts one shooting everything that freezes since he's using his sniper rifle for this there's no Cyro Burst and try as you might you can't keep the group locked down because of it. But that's okay right? At least you're not the only one drawing fire ...wait why haven't you seen even one of these snots shoot at him?

 
Solution: move to another spawn point. The Infiltrator will happily cover this one (unless he's an a-hole). Isn't it actually a part of teamwork to cover different spawn points?

 Or how about when they it there back a bit from cover popping shots off with impunity while you take cover and ..the cover. Atlas fires his missile! you duck down behind cover so the missile will ....fly pass the cover to hit the infiltrator and catch you in the blast. (course this actually applies to anyone but I notice infiltrators tend to believe the missile can't track them if they cloak during it's flight.)

 
As you say, you can't lay it down to Infiltrators alone, so the point is moot.

 You go down because X enemy shot/cut/looked at you the wrong way, said enemy is a close range unit an you're in a corner, it's sitting nearby and suddenly you're being revived by the infiltrator. but wait, you're still stuck in the corner because he didn't need to clear the mob blocking your escape to get to you thanks to his sexy cloaking ability. as such you just start getting brutalized by said enemy and you can't do jack about it because you're trapped in a corner. 

 
That's down to the player and the situation. Most Infiltrators I know will take care of the enemy first and revive afterwards.

 For every infiltrator in the party there will be one less person your biotic can actually synergize with. 

 
Most Biotic classes/characters have powers that synergise with each other, no need for a second Biotic player.

 you get stuck in a group with 3 infiltrators. you spend the majority of the game watching others' screen since all enemy units where focused on your visual butt and after the third or so time being downed the infiltrators stopped picking you up. even your mighty kroguard or sentinel speced for tanking can't survive the onslaught. 

 
I believe each player should be able to hold his own. It's not like the Infiltrators cloak then do nothing but watch the last person struggle. If they're good, they'll be cloaked for about a second at most, and there'll be at least one less enemy afterwards.

 Gear, Powers, Weapons (Sniper rifles especially); they all constantly get balanced versus the Infiltrator. Weapons that where effective and fun get nerfed so they are "just right" in the hands of a cloaked Infiltrator and you're left with a bitter taste afterward.

 
Complain to the people asking for nerfs. It's not the Infiltrators's fault.

 An Infiltrator can use more damaging/effective version of tech powers then your engineer because of tactical cloak.

 
Engineers have more variety and can usually tech burst on their own for spike damage (that one might be wrong, i'm not too familair with non Geth Engineer)

[Atalanta]

nicethugbert wrote...

Try playing as the only non-infiltrator on the team on gold.  Tell me how you like being a decoy or bullet sponge.

That hasn't been my experience at all (except when I play sentinel and seek out damage to soak up on purpose). I often get put into groups with three infiltrators as an adept or engineer and don't take any more damage than usual. To play well you've gotta keep moving, that's all.

[nicethugbert]

Atalanta wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Try playing as the only non-infiltrator on the team on gold.  Tell me how you like being a decoy or bullet sponge.

That hasn't been my experience at all (except when I play sentinel and seek out damage to soak up on purpose). I often get put into groups with three infiltrators as an adept or engineer and don't take any more damage than usual. To play well you've gotta keep moving, that's all.

The fact is that cloak dumps aggro.  With you're non-infiltrator constantly visible and the infiltrators blinking in and out of sight, you're non-infiltrator is the constant that the enemies see and shoot at and if you move around the map, you are drawing even more attention.  Soon, the entire map is after you.

[TehMerc]

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...


 I mentioned a unique ability that only one class can use, and get a huge boost out of it, as a counter to TC having a unique effect and granting a huge boost to the class, and yet only TC is the target of so much ire. See? Isn't it better when there's context?

And you took mine out of context too if we're playing it that way. You didn't even bother to register all the issues involved with Biotic Charge. Even as a host there's times it won't work the way it should so don't throw that excuse out either.

Just shows how much your reaching.

[Feauce]

Major Durza wrote...

Its a problem because weapons like the Krysae are going to be nerfed into the ground because it is rediculously overpowered with a 180% or more damage increase given by Tactical Cloak.

Tactical Cloak is only a 130% increase at best for sniper rifles, and only for sniper rifles. For everything else, there's MasterCard 90% is the best you'll get. In both of those cases, you're giving up a duration increase, and in the case of snipers, you're also giving up the ability to fire off a power and stay Cloaked.