374 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

The fact that you constantly resort to these ad hominem attacks convinces me that you have trouble making logical arguments.
...

There's other sites you can go to for such unabashed flirting.  Quite frankly, it's making me uncomfortable.

Hypocrisy, thy name is CmnDwnWrkn.

Boring, thy name is Rifneno...

The fact that you constantly resort to these ad hominem attacks convinces me that you have trouble making logical arguments.


...  Huh.  Why does that sound so familiar? 

[molecularman]

Ashen Earth wrote...

You mean SI energy drain.

HI, GI, and QI do not have a power tailored specifically to remove specific defenses. Sabotage will only remove shields from weak enemies if you spec for backfire.

If all of the infiltrators were better at removing enemy defenses than Engineers, then all of the infiltrators would use sniper rifles, and the "SI is the best sniper, all others should use a shotgun" mentality would die already. you would also probably see fewer Geth Engineers with sniper rifles, because if the GI had a power to remove shields, he would clearly be the superior sniper in every imaginable situation.

And what exactly can a GE do against armor, huh?

It might also be worth mentioning a cloaked proximity mine doesn't do much less damage than energy drain used by an engineer and it definitely does more damage than incinerate. Plus, there is that little debuff thingie.

HIs have that debuff as well, wouldn't that be support or what, that thing specific to engineers?

And QI.. Well, not all infiltrators are top-tier infiltrators.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...

QME is one of the best AOE classes in the game.
Geth can heal and is pretty much a weapons master with OL chains and HM.
SI is one of the best aggro sponges with decoy.
Human Engineers I've not invested in, but I knwo some forum regulars who use them minus turret and are huge credits to team.

QFE is the only one you could complain about, and she's in for a balance next week...

Engineers are efficient, diverse, and powerful. You need to actually spend some time with them before you poo-poo their potential. Your manifest is quite telling of your lack here...

You're manifest might be more impressive, but I've read some genuinely terrible drivel from you about this game.  Your "The false Pandemic of OP and why things are really OK" thread was especially bad.  More experience with the game doesn't necessarily mean your opinions make more sense.  Your posts do a good job of illustrating this.

But unlike you, he actually gives logical explanations to support his arguments without resorting to throwing a tantrum and calling people names as an 8 year old child would.

I may not agree with everything he posts, but at least he can support his opinions without being hypocritical, and obnoxious. The same cannot be said of you.

LMAO, yeah okay.  Now you're projecting what you came into this thread doing onto me.  Nice work.

At least oceansturnblue tries.  I'm not sure what you do besides troll.

Rifneno wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

The fact that you constantly resort to these ad hominem attacks convinces me that you have trouble making logical arguments.
...

There's other sites you can go to for such unabashed flirting.  Quite frankly, it's making me uncomfortable.

Hypocrisy, thy name is CmnDwnWrkn.

Boring, thy name is Rifneno...

The fact that you constantly resort to these ad hominem attacks convinces me that you have trouble making logical arguments.


...  Huh.  Why does that sound so familiar? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie]

Look, please understand what the term actually means first.  AshensForever already embarrassed himself by attempting to define ad hominem without knowing what it meant.  Don't make the same mistake.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 14 juin 2012 - 09:55 .

[astheoceansblue]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...
You're manifest might be more impressive, but I've read some genuinely terrible drivel from you about this game.  Your "The false Pandemic of OP and why things are really OK" thread was especially bad.  More experience with the game doesn't necessarily mean your opinions make more sense.  Your posts do a good job of illustrating this.

Coming from you, this is actually a complement!

[Achossa]

@title
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
and might I add HA

[Rifneno]

OP, have you ever considered... maybe it's not the rest of the world? Maybe it's you that's wrong?

[CmnDwnWrkn]

astheoceansblue wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...
You're manifest might be more impressive, but I've read some genuinely terrible drivel from you about this game.  Your "The false Pandemic of OP and why things are really OK" thread was especially bad.  More experience with the game doesn't necessarily mean your opinions make more sense.  Your posts do a good job of illustrating this.

Coming from you, this is actually a complement!

No, it really isn't.  I don't see how anyone can get through more than a few sentences of your incredibly long-winded posts without falling asleep.  It would be one thing if they were helpful. 

[astheoceansblue]

lightsnow13 wrote...

OMG! Question!

Where is it that the quarian female engineer will be bufffed? I've got to see this! I hope so.. she's my main character -- I wonder what they're going to change, if anything drastic. I doubt it though, she recently got a small turret buff..

In this thread it's dev confirmed the QFE will be balanced somehow next week.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...
No, it really isn't.  I don't see how anyone can get through more than a few sentences of your incredibly long-winded posts without falling asleep.  It would be one thing if they were helpful.  

 
You're making me happier with each reply, thank you!

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 14 juin 2012 - 10:03 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Rifneno wrote...

OP, have you ever considered... maybe it's not the rest of the world? Maybe it's you that's wrong?

No, you are wrong.  "Ad hominem" does have a very clear meaning that you were very clearly wrong about.  That much isn't debatable.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 14 juin 2012 - 10:05 .

[molecularman]

I think this is more like a flame war now than a proper debate

Or what if they are the same

[Rifneno]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

OP, have you ever considered... maybe it's not the rest of the world? Maybe it's you that's wrong?

No, you are wrong.  "Ad hominem" does have a very clear meaning that you were very clearly wrong about.  That much isn't debatable.

I meant about the engineers.  I'm done with the ad hominem definition thing.  I stopped debating the definition of words on the internet around the time I stopped thinking girls had cooties.

[Ashen One]

molecularman wrote...

And what exactly can a GE do against armor, huh?

What faction has more armored units than shielded ones? Reapers, that's it. Against the other two, a GE can remove defense much easier than the GI.

molecularman wrote...
It might also be worth mentioning a cloaked proximity mine doesn't do much less damage than energy drain used by an engineer and it definitely does more damage than incinerate. Plus, there is that little debuff thingie.

Too bad it doesn't  completely remove shields though. I mean, because if it did then maybe the GE wouldn't be a better sniper than the GI in most cases due to being able to remove shields just as easily. as it stands, the GE can do so more reliably than the GI.

Also worth noting that the majority of the Infiltrators do not have Proximity Mine. Why do you only give examples from the SI skillset? you are aware that there are 4 other infiltrators?

molecularman wrote...

HIs have that debuff as well, wouldn't that be support or what, that thing specific to engineers?

So what, a tech/combat class has a tech power. A QE is still better for ice combos than a HI, and her skillset is better against armor than a HI. To compensate, the HI must rely on a weapon. "Support' is not specific to Engineers. Don't misconstrue what I said.

molecularman wrote...
And QI.. Well, not all infiltrators are top-tier infiltrators.

I'll assume that was a joke. QI is inferior to the GI, SI, and MQI

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Rifneno wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

OP, have you ever considered... maybe it's not the rest of the world? Maybe it's you that's wrong?

No, you are wrong.  "Ad hominem" does have a very clear meaning that you were very clearly wrong about.  That much isn't debatable.

I meant about the engineers.  I'm done with the ad hominem definition thing.  I stopped debating the definition of words on the internet around the time I stopped thinking girls had cooties.

I'm not debating the definition of the term. You WERE wrong about it.  There's nothing to debate.

[rmccowen]

molecularman wrote...

I think this is more like a flame war now than a proper debate

Or what if they are the same

Flame wars come with popcorn, and are therefore infinitely superior.

[WaffleCrab]

molecularman wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

You mean SI energy drain.

HI, GI, and QI do not have a power tailored specifically to remove specific defenses. Sabotage will only remove shields from weak enemies if you spec for backfire.

If all of the infiltrators were better at removing enemy defenses than Engineers, then all of the infiltrators would use sniper rifles, and the "SI is the best sniper, all others should use a shotgun" mentality would die already. you would also probably see fewer Geth Engineers with sniper rifles, because if the GI had a power to remove shields, he would clearly be the superior sniper in every imaginable situation.

And what exactly can a GE do against armor, huh?

It might also be worth mentioning a cloaked proximity mine doesn't do much less damage than energy drain used by an engineer and it definitely does more damage than incinerate. Plus, there is that little debuff thingie.

HIs have that debuff as well, wouldn't that be support or what, that thing specific to engineers?

And QI.. Well, not all infiltrators are top-tier infiltrators.

GEs flamer does a massive amount of damage to armor.

[Ashen One]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...


Look, please understand what the term actually means first.  AshensForever already embarrassed himself by attempting to define ad hominem without knowing what it meant.  Don't make the same mistake.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Ad_hominem

Abusive ad hominem (also called personal abuse or personal
attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in
order to attack his claim or invalidate his argument, but can also
involve pointing out true character flaws or actions that are irrelevant
to the opponent's argument. This is logically fallacious because it
relates to the opponent's personal character, which has nothing to do
with the logical merit of the opponent's argument, whereas mere verbal abuse in the absence of an argument is not ad hominem nor any kind of logical fallacy.[6]
Examples:

• "You can't believe John when he says the proposed policy would help the economy. He doesn't even have a job."
• "Candidate Jane's proposal about zoning is ridiculous. She was caught cheating on her taxes in 2003."
• "What would Mary know about fixing cars? She is a woman." (an example of Ad feminam)
• "What makes you so smart and all-knowing to deny God's existence? You haven't even finished school."
• "Your fashion opinion isn't valid, you can't even afford new shoes."

However, my argument

• You are inexperienced, because you die a lot.

Is different from the examples. In the set of examples, the reasoning was supported by an insult to reach a conclusion, and the "character flaws" that I mention are very much relevant to my argument that you are inexperienced. My reasoning does not contain any personal attacks. Please learn what an ad hominem attack is before you throw around terminology you don't understand.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 14 juin 2012 - 10:20 .

[Sabbatine]

The title of this thread is stupid.

No class is unplayable. Only an idiot could say that and really mean it, so I'm going to assume all the people who have said that in this thread are just kidding.

It's a game folks, if you wanted every engineer racial choice, or even every racial choice in the game to be perfectly balanced and useful, create a premade team and play without investing any points into any skills. Now you have near perfect class balance.

Modifié par Sabbatine, 14 juin 2012 - 10:15 .

[molecularman]

@Ashen Earth

Well, salarian infiltrator is basically a better GE when it comes to sniping. No point in comparing the rest when one infiltrator alone is able to outdo engineers in pretty much everything they do?

P mine not removing shields... Firstly, you should compare GE and SI, not GI. Secondly, krysae and shotguns.

And that support thing wasn't pointed to you exactly

Ashen Earth wrote...

molecularman wrote...
And QI.. Well, not all infiltrators are top-tier infiltrators.

I'll assume that was a joke. QI is inferior to the GI, SI, and MQI

That's what I was saying, duh!

Nah, I'm done with the grand debate now

Modifié par molecularman, 14 juin 2012 - 10:15 .

[WaffleCrab]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

WaffleCrab wrote...

Kaizer88 wrote...

WaffleCrab wrote...


Ill say this again, its all in who is playing what, some people just cant handle engineers and label them as "weak"  well not my problem  but it doesnt stop me from saying that they should change themselves before trying to change the system.

Put two equally skilled players together ; one as an engineer, the other as an infiltrator. The infiltrator will score more, will be more useful for objectives (stealthing to disarm). What's hard to understand about this? one class is BETTER than the other. You're gimping yourself and your team with your play"STYLE" and choices.

Nope. only a narrowminded fool would say someone is gimping the team with hes prefered choice of class. Also i see infs. outscore engineers only if the engineer is A.) doing bothing but baiting with a turret or decoy(farmers looking at you) or B.) havent gotten familiar with hes build yet.

Also saying that the inf. is more usefull to the team simply because he might score more.. pffft really? REALLY?
while that same inf. might die 2-3 times more than the engineer. also a good engineer can easily pop a turret(if playing a race with one) or decoy and do the objectives as easily on gold as an infiltrator would. :innocent:

Just as a side note: I play as a support, no matter which class and race, and i regularry outscore even the new QMI with my QME or GE. When i am doing a simple humble support build, usually ½ of the time. plus i usually die less than any of our infiltrators as an engineer, so tell who is gimping who down, hmm?

I never thought I'd see someone claim that Engineers outscoring Infiltrators is the norm for this game, with Infiltrators outscoring Engineers being the exception...but you just did it.

funny how you twist my words, never said either of them were exceptions. but i gues you really havent played this game much, huh? saying its around half the time other of the 2, somehow makes the other an exception(I underlined the section for you, so you dont have to get your reading glasses).

[astheoceansblue]

While the OP isn't actually using AH precisely... but he is doing two separate things that add up to the same effect:

Telling people their points are awful.
And then calling them names to strengthen this idea.

He's effectively saying "your argument is stupid because you are an idiot", over and over...

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 14 juin 2012 - 10:18 .

[Xx_Belzak_xX]

I stopped reading at:

Other than the Salarian, Engineers are unplayable

[Ashen One]

Xx_Belzak_xX wrote...

I stopped reading at:

Other than the Salarian, Engineers are unplayable

Your sig is very relevant to the majority of the posts in this thread.

[mightysasquatch]

Not reading back over every page....but I'll say my human engineer on a gold run usually has me placing in the top two regularly. Though I haven't bothered levelling back up as I have loads of new char the human's are viable. Geth smg, disruptor ammo & spunk chain overload....

[WaffleCrab]

i just suggest people ignore him to quote an old saying "the only winning move, is not to play the game"