Aaleel wrote...
We don't really know how the VIs work. Would the VI on Ilos had detected Saren near the beginning of his time after discovering Sovereign? Is there a certain level of indoctrination where the VIs start detecting it. This is the question that needs answered.
For the record I don't believe in the IT at all, just trying to be fair.
NoSpin wrote...
And again, the VI didn't work because Shepard is not indoctrinated until you choose Synthesis or Control. Process of indoctrination does not equal indoctrinated.
BlackAceAngel wrote...
KiwiQuiche wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
I'm asking you about the ones that did get activated on by Object Rho. WHY AREN'T THEY INDOCTRINATED? (see i can all caps too!)
I had to use all caps because you were pulling the denial card in overdrive. Like most ITers I've met. <_<
IT ISN'T CANON, so stop acting like it is. It's not a reliable source.
If you have the Arrival DLC (which is canon for your story) the indoctrination theory with the Object Rho works, but dont have the Arrival DLC (which is canon for these who didn't have) then the indoctrination theory would not work.
So question should be how would the indoctrination theory work with or without Arrival DLC and not want is CANON (look I can use caps too).
RyanSoup wrote...
Aaleel wrote...
We don't really know how the VIs work. Would the VI on Ilos had detected Saren near the beginning of his time after discovering Sovereign? Is there a certain level of indoctrination where the VIs start detecting it. This is the question that needs answered.
For the record I don't believe in the IT at all, just trying to be fair.
Synthetic. Implants. Kai Leng apparently had them. So did Saren. So did TIM. Maybe that's the "taint of Indoctrination" the VI is referring to.
KingZayd wrote...
RyanSoup wrote...
@KingZayd
You CAN shoot at her before tiring her out, but she's 's invulnerable until you take out the first 3 or 4 waves of enemies
And after those waves she's tired out? Was she just buffing the squad or something?
RyanSoup wrote...
Lord Goose wrote...
Fully indoctrinated, eg. Like Saren's final form
Or like any of the reaper infantry
Where is no instance in the lore, where Saren and husks were specified as ''more indoctrinated'' than, say, Menos Avok or Rana Thanopsis.
You sure? Did you check the Codex?
I'm talking about Reaper implants. It makes sense of you really think about it. The degree relates to the implants. Much likew with SarenKingZayd wrote...
RyanSoup wrote...
Aaleel wrote...
We don't really know how the VIs work. Would the VI on Ilos had detected Saren near the beginning of his time after discovering Sovereign? Is there a certain level of indoctrination where the VIs start detecting it. This is the question that needs answered.
For the record I don't believe in the IT at all, just trying to be fair.
Synthetic. Implants. Kai Leng apparently had them. So did Saren. So did TIM. Maybe that's the "taint of Indoctrination" the VI is referring to.
I think it's more of a question of degree of indoctrination rather than "do you have those special implants?". Even the tech we have could perform the sort of scan required for the latter option.
Dwailing wrote...
I'm not denying that it's possible to not play Arrival, what I'm saying is that it's considered CANON in the main universe. This is the ONLY time that something that was possible to not be played in game is assumed as canon in an external source. That has to mean SOMETHING. Have you read the novels? Have you read any of the other comics? They've ALWAYS tried to keep the choices Shepard made ambiguous. Heck, in the Liara comic (I can't remember its name, sue me.), they even MAKE IT CLEAR that they're not going to confirm Shepard as male of female.
Paul Grayson spend about 504 hours (three weeks) with Reaper impant inside his body to partially succumb to Reapers. Shepard... much less time.He comes face to face with Sovereign, the
Human Reaper, the Rannoch reaper. If you don't believe in IT,
fine. But don't use the excuse that Shepard hasn't been
around the Reapers long enough to be indoctrinated. He sure as hell has.
Dwailing wrote...
OK, you know what? I'm DONE trying to convince you guys. I feel like I'm talking to the COUNCIL for God's sake. I'm going to leave you guys with this, though. Mac Walters wrote ME3. Mac Walters wrote Mass Effect: Conviction. I doubt that he would have forgotten that in an earlier work that HE WROTE, he confirmed Shepard destroying the Alpha Relay as canon.
Dwailing wrote...
OK, you know what? I'm DONE trying to convince you guys. I feel like I'm talking to the COUNCIL for God's sake. I'm going to leave you guys with this, though. Mac Walters wrote ME3. Mac Walters wrote Mass Effect: Conviction. I doubt that he would have forgotten that in an earlier work that HE WROTE, he confirmed Shepard destroying the Alpha Relay as canon.
hm.. so it's a boss battle where we don't actually fight the boss? that's interesting.. guess I didn't remember the fight itself that well (except for the room.. using biotic powers, then shooting and running in the direction with the least Asari commandos FTW), the story was just so good.RyanSoup wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
RyanSoup wrote...
@KingZayd
You CAN shoot at her before tiring her out, but she's 's invulnerable until you take out the first 3 or 4 waves of enemies
And after those waves she's tired out? Was she just buffing the squad or something?
She puts your squad into stasis prior to each wave, then shoots at you and uses her other biotics. Sometimes you can stay completely out of her LoF
Nuclear Pete wrote...
IT makes no sense... If shepard was indoctrinated by object rho, why did he slam it into a relay?
Why did he destroy the collector base? Why did he spend all of ME3 recruiting the galaxy, fighting cerberus and destorying reapers on Tuchanka, Rannoch and Earth?
With or without the Arrival DLC, IT makes no sense. This theory makes less sense than the current ending.
RyanSoup wrote...
We should all know by now what Indoctrination Theory is, but for those of you who don't yet, the theory is that at the end of Priority: Earth, after Shepard is hit by a reaper's laser, Sheperd becomes indoctrinated and the whole ending is just a hallucination.
RyanSoup wrote...
I'm talking about Reaper implants. It makes sense of you really think about it. The degree relates to the implants. Much likew with SarenKingZayd wrote...
RyanSoup wrote...
Aaleel wrote...
We don't really know how the VIs work. Would the VI on Ilos had detected Saren near the beginning of his time after discovering Sovereign? Is there a certain level of indoctrination where the VIs start detecting it. This is the question that needs answered.
For the record I don't believe in the IT at all, just trying to be fair.
Synthetic. Implants. Kai Leng apparently had them. So did Saren. So did TIM. Maybe that's the "taint of Indoctrination" the VI is referring to.
I think it's more of a question of degree of indoctrination rather than "do you have those special implants?". Even the tech we have could perform the sort of scan required for the latter option.
Nuclear Pete wrote...
IT makes no sense... If shepard was indoctrinated by object rho, why did he slam it into a relay?
Why did he destroy the collector base? Why did he spend all of ME3 recruiting the galaxy, fighting cerberus and destorying reapers on Tuchanka, Rannoch and Earth?
With or without the Arrival DLC, IT makes no sense. This theory makes less sense than the current ending.
KingZayd wrote...
Lord Goose wrote...
Kai Leng was still in his ''I'm doing it for humanity'' phase during his final encounter with Shepard.Maybe it only detects fully indoctrinated people and not
people undergoing the process?
And, frankly, I don't remember any instance of somebody being ''not fully indoctrinated''.
Kai Leng was indoctrinated by TIM not by the Reapers.
Saren was indoctrinated after Vermire. He was even more indoctrinated at the Citadel. Clearly, indoctrination is not a discrete [0,1] variable.
Nuclear Pete wrote...
IT makes no sense... If shepard was indoctrinated by object rho, why did he slam it into a relay?
Why did he destroy the collector base? Why did he spend all of ME3 recruiting the galaxy, fighting cerberus and destorying reapers on Tuchanka, Rannoch and Earth?
With or without the Arrival DLC, IT makes no sense. This theory makes less sense than the current ending.
Aaleel wrote...
Dwailing wrote...
I'm not denying that it's possible to not play Arrival, what I'm saying is that it's considered CANON in the main universe. This is the ONLY time that something that was possible to not be played in game is assumed as canon in an external source. That has to mean SOMETHING. Have you read the novels? Have you read any of the other comics? They've ALWAYS tried to keep the choices Shepard made ambiguous. Heck, in the Liara comic (I can't remember its name, sue me.), they even MAKE IT CLEAR that they're not going to confirm Shepard as male of female.
Obviously it isn't. They specifically wrote two different storylines for a reason. Doing Arrival or not even affects your War assets, they're two completely different paths. I've read everything. But when I'm playing a game, what actually happens in the game is paramount, I don't see how it can be any other way.
RyanSoup wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
Lord Goose wrote...
Kai Leng was still in his ''I'm doing it for humanity'' phase during his final encounter with Shepard.Maybe it only detects fully indoctrinated people and not
people undergoing the process?
And, frankly, I don't remember any instance of somebody being ''not fully indoctrinated''.
Kai Leng was indoctrinated by TIM not by the Reapers.
Saren was indoctrinated after Vermire. He was even more indoctrinated at the Citadel. Clearly, indoctrination is not a discrete [0,1] variable.
What are you talking about? Saren was indoctrinated on Eden Prime. It's not like he was born with Geth parts sticking out of his body
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