233 réponses à ce sujet

[BatmanTurian]

RyanSoup wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

Maybe it only detects fully indoctrinated people and not
people undergoing the process?

Kai Leng was still in his ''I'm doing it for humanity'' phase during his final encounter with Shepard.

And, frankly, I don't remember any instance of somebody being ''not fully indoctrinated''.

Kai Leng was indoctrinated by TIM not by the Reapers.

Saren was indoctrinated after Vermire. He was even more indoctrinated at the Citadel. Clearly, indoctrination is not a discrete [0,1] variable.

What are you talking about?  Saren was indoctrinated on Eden Prime.  It's not like he was born with Geth parts sticking out of his body

to clarify, i think you mean before Eden Prime, but yeah, those aren't Geth parts. Those are implants from Sovereign.

[Nuclear Pete]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Nuclear Pete wrote...

IT makes no sense... If shepard was indoctrinated by object rho, why did he slam it into a relay?

Why did he destroy the collector base? Why did he spend all of ME3 recruiting the galaxy, fighting cerberus and destorying reapers on Tuchanka, Rannoch and Earth?

With or without the Arrival DLC, IT makes no sense. This theory makes less sense than the current ending.

yeah it makes no sense because you haven't done your research, or you wouldn't have said any of that.

Research? I'm familiar with IT, it's kinda hard to avoid. I've also played the games, read the books. I think those that support IT are conveniently ignoring the facts. There just isn't enough evidence to support IT

Modifié par Nuclear Pete, 14 juin 2012 - 11:44 .

[BatmanTurian]

jijeebo wrote...

The game says Arrival isn't canon.
A comic says it is.


Since Mass Effect is a GAME franchise first and foremost... Arrival isn't canon.


Pillar game > Extended universe comic

quoting someone who said it better than I could:

BleedingUranium wrote...
All novels (except Deception) and all comics are canon. Period. Bioware
says so. Arrival was mentioned in Conviction, making it canon, and James
talks about events from Conviction in game, making it even more solid.
So, Bioware has stated Arrival's canon. You can choose to not do it, but
it becomes a non-canon playthrough.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 14 juin 2012 - 11:45 .

[Jadebaby]

RyanSoup wrote...

@JadeBaby88
Sorry. I'm not trying to blow you off. You do bring up a lot of valid points. I can't really quote all that for my own rebuttal right now, however. I'm on a mobile. It doesn't do the whole "oh, you ran out of room in this text box? Let me scroll down for you" thing

That's okay, well it's your thread so you know where to post it when you have the chance, will bookmark the thread so I can find it later.

[BatmanTurian]

Nuclear Pete wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Nuclear Pete wrote...

IT makes no sense... If shepard was indoctrinated by object rho, why did he slam it into a relay?

Why did he destroy the collector base? Why did he spend all of ME3 recruiting the galaxy, fighting cerberus and destorying reapers on Tuchanka, Rannoch and Earth?

With or without the Arrival DLC, IT makes no sense. This theory makes less sense than the current ending.

yeah it makes no sense because you haven't done your research, or you wouldn't have said any of that.

Research? I'm familiar with IT, it's kinda hard to avoid. I've also played the games, read the books. I think those that support IT are conveniently ignoring the facts. There just isn't enough evidence to support IT

Yes, there isn't a whole three games, books, comic books, or a codex that supports IT at all.

[KiwiQuiche]

jijeebo wrote...

The game says Arrival isn't canon.
A comic says it is.


Since Mass Effect is a GAME franchise first and foremost... Arrival isn't canon.


Pillar game > Extended universe comic

Maybe Mac was trying to get moar speculation from everyone with this...

But yeah, the actual GAME trumps the comics.

[Lord Goose]

Or, alternatively, events of Conviction only applies to Shepards, who did the Arrival.

[RyanSoup]

KingZayd wrote...

hm.. so it's a boss battle where we don't actually fight the boss? that's interesting.. guess I didn't remember the fight itself that well (except for the room.. using biotic powers, then shooting and running in the direction with the least  Asari commandos FTW), the story was just so good.

You fight her after she gives you her OSD

[Aaleel]

BatmanTurian wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

The game says Arrival isn't canon.
A comic says it is.


Since Mass Effect is a GAME franchise first and foremost... Arrival isn't canon.


Pillar game > Extended universe comic

quoting someone who said it better than I could:

BleedingUranium wrote...
All novels (except Deception) and all comics are canon. Period. Bioware
says so. Arrival was mentioned in Conviction, making it canon, and James
talks about events from Conviction in game, making it even more solid.
So, Bioware has stated Arrival's canon. You can choose to not do it, but
it becomes a non-canon playthrough.

BIoware themselves have said Mass Effect has no canon.  So how would there be a 'canon' playthrough?  Basically what happens in your game happens in your game.  Your game is your canon.

[RyanSoup]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

RyanSoup wrote...

@JadeBaby88
Sorry. I'm not trying to blow you off. You do bring up a lot of valid points. I can't really quote all that for my own rebuttal right now, however. I'm on a mobile. It doesn't do the whole "oh, you ran out of room in this text box? Let me scroll down for you" thing

That's okay, well it's your thread so you know where to post it when you have the chance, will bookmark the thread so I can find it later.

Absolutely
I do appreciate your input.  It's a lot more insightful than what some of these guys have to offer

[Arian Dynas]

Arrival is canon. Mass Effect: Conviction states so. Shepard is stated to have destroyed the Alpha Relay. All the books and comic books, with the exception of Mass Effect: Deception are canon.

James also references the events of Conviction in the game, even if your character did NOT play through Arrival.

More to the point, Shepard also has an opportunity to go through Mass Effect 1 and never meet Garrus or Wrex, and no one is saying they are not canon as a result of this.

Not having been through Arrival makes your Shepard non-canon. Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

[KingZayd]

RyanSoup wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

hm.. so it's a boss battle where we don't actually fight the boss? that's interesting.. guess I didn't remember the fight itself that well (except for the room.. using biotic powers, then shooting and running in the direction with the least  Asari commandos FTW), the story was just so good.

You fight her after she gives you her OSD

haha that's a pretty unconventional order for a boss battle.. Kill their minions, have a friendly chat, Kill them. But then this is the game that has you fight Saren AFTER he dies.

[jijeebo]

@BatmanTurian

That person you quoted deserves a slap for having the audacity to declare other peoples Shepards invalid because they didn't buy OPTIONAL DLC.


That is the most arrogant thing I have ever seen.

[Bill Casey]

RyanSoup wrote...

What are you talking about?  Saren was indoctrinated on Eden Prime.  It's not like he was born with Geth parts sticking out of his body

Saren: I suppose I should thank you, Shepard. After Virmire, I couldn't stop thinking about what you said. Abut Sovereign manipulating me, about--indoctrination. The doubts began to eat away at me. Sovereign sensed my hesitation. I was implanted to strengthen my resolve. Now my doubts are gone. I believe in Sovereign completely

[Jadebaby]

Also, even if Arrival wasn't considered canon, it's Bioware, they could incorporate indoctrination through one easy blow-off dialog.. Instead of explaining that it was from Object Rho, it becomes 'from your contact with Reapers over the years..'

Sure it's weak, but the majority it would be explaining it to are the casual fans who don't have imports. I don't think they'd know any different. Regardless it's canon, so there.

[Arian Dynas]

Aaleel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

The game says Arrival isn't canon.
A comic says it is.


Since Mass Effect is a GAME franchise first and foremost... Arrival isn't canon.


Pillar game > Extended universe comic

quoting someone who said it better than I could:

BleedingUranium wrote...
All novels (except Deception) and all comics are canon. Period. Bioware
says so. Arrival was mentioned in Conviction, making it canon, and James
talks about events from Conviction in game, making it even more solid.
So, Bioware has stated Arrival's canon. You can choose to not do it, but
it becomes a non-canon playthrough.

BIoware themselves have said Mass Effect has no canon.  So how would there be a 'canon' playthrough?  Basically what happens in your game happens in your game.  Your game is your canon.

Not so. There are certain aspects that are undeniably canon, whether you experienced them or not.

Shepard defeated Saren. By your argument if you did not play Mass Effect 1, then this is not canon, since your Shepard apparently did not do this.

And by this same argument, Garrus and Wrex are not canon if your Shepard never met them in ME1.

[RyanSoup]

BatmanTurian wrote...

to clarify, i think you mean before Eden Prime, but yeah, those aren't Geth parts. Those are implants from Sovereign.

We first saw him on E1.  
And I get what you're saying, that they're reaper implants, but let's be honest--they look exactly like Geth parts

[BatmanTurian]

jijeebo wrote...

@BatmanTurian

That person you quoted deserves a slap for having the audacity to declare other peoples Shepards invalid because they didn't buy OPTIONAL DLC.


That is the most arrogant thing I have ever seen.

The truth always sounds arrogant to the fool.

[Jadebaby]

jijeebo wrote...

@BatmanTurian

That person you quoted deserves a slap for having the audacity to declare other peoples Shepards invalid because they didn't buy OPTIONAL DLC.


That is the most arrogant thing I have ever seen.

Are you serious? Being non-cannon and invalid are two completely different things, stop being melo-dramatic.

[BatmanTurian]

RyanSoup wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

to clarify, i think you mean before Eden Prime, but yeah, those aren't Geth parts. Those are implants from Sovereign.

We first saw him on E1.  
And I get what you're saying, that they're reaper implants, but let's be honest--they look exactly like Geth parts

and it's funny you say that because when I first played ME2, I thought Legion was a rebuilt Saren put back together by the Geth because of that geth body he has. Until Legion started talking to me of course.

[Jadebaby]

RyanSoup wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

to clarify, i think you mean before Eden Prime, but yeah, those aren't Geth parts. Those are implants from Sovereign.

We first saw him on E1.  
And I get what you're saying, that they're reaper implants, but let's be honest--they look exactly like Geth parts

tbh, I didn't realise dragon spikes were reaper tech until halfway through ME2. I think the lines between geth and reaper tech in ME1 were a little blurry.

[RyanSoup]

Bill Casey wrote...

RyanSoup wrote...

What are you talking about?  Saren was indoctrinated on Eden Prime.  It's not like he was born with Geth parts sticking out of his body

Saren: I suppose I should thank you, Shepard. After Virmire, I couldn't stop thinking about what you said. Abut Sovereign manipulating me, about--indoctrination. The doubts began to eat away at me. Sovereign sensed my hesitation. I was implanted to strengthen my resolve. Now my doubts are gone. I believe in Sovereign completely

If that counts, then what about the part where you use speech checks to make him kill himself at the end?  Based on that logic, we could say that he wasn't actually indoctrinated until he turned into a spooky hopper-thing.  Is there anything you want to add to your argument in order to substantiate it?

[jijeebo]

LOL @ ITer insulting my intelligence... How cliche.


Go back under your bridge, you're doing your theory a disservice.

[Aaleel]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

The game says Arrival isn't canon.
A comic says it is.


Since Mass Effect is a GAME franchise first and foremost... Arrival isn't canon.


Pillar game > Extended universe comic

quoting someone who said it better than I could:

BleedingUranium wrote...
All novels (except Deception) and all comics are canon. Period. Bioware
says so. Arrival was mentioned in Conviction, making it canon, and James
talks about events from Conviction in game, making it even more solid.
So, Bioware has stated Arrival's canon. You can choose to not do it, but
it becomes a non-canon playthrough.

BIoware themselves have said Mass Effect has no canon.  So how would there be a 'canon' playthrough?  Basically what happens in your game happens in your game.  Your game is your canon.

Not so. There are certain aspects that are undeniably canon, whether you experienced them or not.

Shepard defeated Saren. By your argument if you did not play Mass Effect 1, then this is not canon, since your Shepard apparently did not do this.

And by this same argument, Garrus and Wrex are not canon if your Shepard never met them in ME1.

ME1 was written into the all the follwoing games.  What Bioware wants in the game they want in the game and put in the game.  So the fact that they went out of their way in this instance to write an alternate storyline with different War asset totals and all speaks volumes.  If they had wanted it to be part of every Shepard's story they would have made it that way, and not written an alternate story in the game.

Modifié par Aaleel, 14 juin 2012 - 11:59 .

[RyanSoup]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

RyanSoup wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

to clarify, i think you mean before Eden Prime, but yeah, those aren't Geth parts. Those are implants from Sovereign.

We first saw him on E1.  
And I get what you're saying, that they're reaper implants, but let's be honest--they look exactly like Geth parts

tbh, I didn't realise dragon spikes were reaper tech until halfway through ME2. I think the lines between geth and reaper tech in ME1 were a little blurry.

I honestly don't think they even had the entire story arc fleshed out until just recently.  Halo did a better job with storytelling, and it's an FPS.