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Playing DA:O-UE for the first time as a Rogue Archer...


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#1
Bananables

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Am I making a big mistake? Should I go ahead and roll DW to save myself from frustration?

What I noticed after some research is that Rogue Archers are well on the underpowered side. However, most of those threads are 2-3 years old, is that still the case with Rogue Archers in 2012? I'll be playing on the 360 by the way.

What build, as far as both skills and stats, would help me maximize my damage output as my party's long ranged pewpewbangbanger? 2:1 Cun? 2:1 Dex? Pure Cun? Pure Dex? Str for armor? Etc... And also which skills and specs should I take? Also, is there a certain rotation that will allow me to deal as much damage as I can with a bow?

I just want to do enough damage so that I'll feel like I'm actually the freakin' leader of this party. I've played all 3 ME games and there, Shepard deals the most damage and kills the most enemies, but then again the game was designed that way; whereas in DA there are combat roles to be filled and everything has to be balanced. Still though, can anyone lead me to a few builds that make Rogue Archers into wrecking balls?

Lastly, what should I do with Leliana if I'm gonna be ranging myself?

THANKS!!! :D

#2
cJohnOne

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I don't think there's that many archers around. we'll see ha ha. I think if you want to be the damager then you picked the wrong class, yes. If you plan on picking the locks yourself you don't need Leliana or you can change her to a DW rogue. It depend if you like depending on your team for damage or not whether to go DW rogue or not. I'd get arrow of slaying and shattering shot. That's about all I remember. Some people go for scattering shot instead of arrow of slaying but I don't use it that much.

#3
Bananables

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Hmm, well I read a few threads from different sites saying that a high damage output IS possible as a Rogue Archer but you need you to have the absolute right build, party, and playstyle, and THAT's what I'm trying to find. I love playing the ranged class in any game, I even main a Sentinel in Tribes Ascend.

I cam across this page in the wiki dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Archery:_An_Efficient_Approach, I've only read about a quarter of it and it looks like what I've been looking for. Although it seems that it was made for squadmate Rogues like Leliana, but maybe I can still make it work for me if I'm playing one myself.

#4
jhood_shsu

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First get Arrow of Slaying ASAP. That will be your big number shot.

Second, you can go with Dex or Cun builds, both are effective.

Third, do you plan on opening locks and traps or do you want Leliana/Zevran to handle that?

#5
Bananables

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jhood_shsu wrote...

First get Arrow of Slaying ASAP. That will be your big number shot.

Second, you can go with Dex or Cun builds, both are effective.

Third, do you plan on opening locks and traps or do you want Leliana/Zevran to handle that?


I guess I'd rather have a party member do that, unless there's some sort of significant benefit from doing it myself.

#6
termokanden

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Dex is far superior to cunning for archers if you ask me. And now that it's your first run, you'll really benefit from stacking dex and becomming unhittable by standard attacks.

I see you have found the guide. Good. That particular guide is highly recommended.

Modifié par termokanden, 15 juin 2012 - 07:14 .


#7
Bananables

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I also found this extensive guide on GameSpot: www.gamefaqs.com/boards/950918-dragon-age-origins/52628476

That and a few other threads seem to favor Cun builds over Dex. Most of them say pump 30-40 into Dex then the rest into Cunning since a lot of the talents are based off of that attribute.

As far as Str goes, people suggest stopping at 20 so I can wear the best leather near the end of the game? What do you guys think?

I ordered the Ultimate Edition from GameStop's website and it'll come on Tuesday or something so I have a couple days to do some research or maybe even switch to DW Rogue, haha.

#8
cJohnOne

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I think 22 Strength for Ancient elven armor.

#9
jhood_shsu

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The only benefit to doing it yourself is being able to adjust the party differently, i.e. bringing Morrigan, Wynne, Alistar instead of Morrigan, Leliana, Alistar.

Since you want to have Leliana/Zevran handle the rogue duties, then term is correct, stack dex.

You only need 20 str total for the best leathers until you get to Awakening (22 str) anything more then that is just wasting points. You should actually be able to reach 20 between equipment and the bonus points in the mage tower. The only time that base attribute points matter is skills and talents.

If you are not interested in a RP playthrough first go, hit the mage tower first to get the bonuses then cap Cunning at 22 and dump the rest into Dexterity. Give Leliana 20 STR, 30 DEX, and dump the rest in cunning and get her Song of Courage ASAP.

#10
Bananables

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Hmm, since a lotta people seem to favor Cunning over Dex, I might just go with that. If that means I'll be doing all the Rogue duties, then so be it. Should I then make Leliana a DW or just forget about her altogether and take a Mage?

#11
termokanden

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Yeah, for DW melee builds. Cunning isn't all that for archers. Dex however works just fine AND makes you unhittable. I don't understand why anyone would pick cunning for an archer to be honest. But hey, it does work, I'll give them that.

#12
cJohnOne

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Well, If you have different mixes of Dex and Cun. then it changes up your game up a little which is important if you replay the game alot, but I agree with you on your assement. Dex works fine and is good for defense too.

Modifié par cJohnOne, 17 juin 2012 - 05:44 .


#13
Bananables

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termokanden wrote...

Yeah, for DW melee builds. Cunning isn't all that for archers. Dex however works just fine AND makes you unhittable. I don't understand why anyone would pick cunning for an archer to be honest. But hey, it does work, I'll give them that.


I think it's cuz under the Bard spec there are talents that depend on Cun over Dex? Haven't played the game so I'm unfamiliar with the builds. I mean the wiki guide and the GameSpot seem to agree on the same thing even though one is intended for NPC Archers and one is for rolling one.

They say 30-40 Dex then dump the rest to Cun.

#14
termokanden

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It's a good guide and I suppose cunning can be made to work, but I don't personally think the armor penetration is worth giving up your ability to become unhittable and to always hit your target.

Modifié par termokanden, 17 juin 2012 - 03:53 .


#15
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termokanden wrote...

It's a good guide and I suppose cunning can be made to work, but I don't personally think the armor penetration is worth giving up your ability to become unhittable and to always hit your target.


So you're saying 30-40 + gear bonuses isn't enough Dex for a decent hit rating?

#16
termokanden

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I think it'll be a rough start but will be OK later on. However, there are some things you can do. There's Duelist (can give you +10 attack and defense). There are several attack rating buffs in the game, the best of which is Song of Courage (which is a must anyway with a cunning build). Stack 2 x Song of Courage and I think you'll be alright. You can't do that before level 9-10 or so though.

#17
Bananables

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So another Rogue in my party who has it? And yeah, I did hear that the Cunning build starts out slow but picks up the slack after a few levels.

#18
termokanden

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Yeah there are 2 rogue party members you can get. One of them is already a Bard and is the one who can teach you the specialization. Song of Courage makes your cunning give you attack rating, extra damage and crit.

It just stacks in a funny way. If rogue A activates it and the rogue B does the same, everyone in the party except rogue B will have 2 stacks. Rogue B will only have 1. Strange, but that's just the way it is.

Ah I'll leave you to it. It will become clear once you play.

PS: Once you hit Awakening, archers become incredibly overpowered. But this time around, dex is the indusputed winner because of a crazy skill called Accuracy. You will be given the chance to redistribute all your points in Awakening though.

Modifié par termokanden, 17 juin 2012 - 10:29 .


#19
Bananables

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Ah I see haha then I'll make sure I cast it first before Rogue B.

Alright then thanks termokanden! You've been a big help and thanks to the others as well. Really can't wait to play, I've heard so many good things but I never really had the chance to give it a shot. The game play is different from ME so it'll be refreshing.

I'll probably do a couple playthrough before hitting DA2. I know most of BSN hates it, but whatevs...

#20
zenrockoutkast

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 I have some questions about a CUN build, I figured I didn't need a new thread.  I tried to sort of balance cun and dex in my current build, and it's not working out too well.  I'm level 12, done with the Circle tower, and base cun adn dex are 36 and 33 respectively.  I've got +7 dex and +2 cun from gear, and deft hands only.  My problem is that even though my cun score seems a bit underpowered (I'm missing on a lot of traps and chests), my dex score doesn't seem to be making that much of a difference as I'm still getting a good deal of misses.  My question is if I keep balancing the two will it make a difference in hit chance, or am I just shooting myself in the foot for no reason?  Song of Courage and Duelist are good suggestions, though keeping Leliana in the party means I either have to play with the same four the whole game (Alistair being my tank and Wynne my healer), or find ways to offset their not being in the party.  Will they make a huge difference in chance to hit, though, or will it be marginal?

I also have a bit of a problem with Duelist, in that sustainables seem to be untenable for me if I want to use other abilities.  Right now all I have going is a ranger talent and I run out of stamina near the end of most battles.  My wil score is 25 base +2, and I have Andruil's Blessing on.  Most people reccomend ignoring wil, but is that a good idea?  It sounds like the reccomendation is to keep Duelist going, which is 30, and if I add that to my ranger skill I have an upkeep of 80, which puts a strain on my other skills, especially considering AoS has a stamina regen penalty.  Is there a way to use sustainables and still be able to utilize abilities?  Should I be completely ignoring wil as most are suggesting?  Also, is supressing fire a worthwhile skill?  It has basically the same upkeep as ranger talents so stamina isn't a huge problem here, but when I used it before it didn't seem to be doing much.  I though I could basically use that instead of crippling shot, but crippling shot still seems more effective.

One more cun question, I thought being at ~40 and having deft hands would be good enough for most chests, especially only at mid-game.  Does this depend on my boosted cun score or my base score?  

#21
Blazomancer

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zenrockoutkast wrote...

 I have some questions about a CUN build, I figured I didn't need a new thread.  I tried to sort of balance cun and dex in my current build, and it's not working out too well.  I'm level 12, done with the Circle tower, and base cun adn dex are 36 and 33 respectively.  I've got +7 dex and +2 cun from gear, and deft hands only.  My problem is that even though my cun score seems a bit underpowered (I'm missing on a lot of traps and chests), my dex score doesn't seem to be making that much of a difference as I'm still getting a good deal of misses.  My question is if I keep balancing the two will it make a difference in hit chance, or am I just shooting myself in the foot for no reason?  Song of Courage and Duelist are good suggestions, though keeping Leliana in the party means I either have to play with the same four the whole game (Alistair being my tank and Wynne my healer), or find ways to offset their not being in the party.  Will they make a huge difference in chance to hit, though, or will it be marginal?

I also have a bit of a problem with Duelist, in that sustainables seem to be untenable for me if I want to use other abilities.  Right now all I have going is a ranger talent and I run out of stamina near the end of most battles.  My wil score is 25 base +2, and I have Andruil's Blessing on.  Most people reccomend ignoring wil, but is that a good idea?  It sounds like the reccomendation is to keep Duelist going, which is 30, and if I add that to my ranger skill I have an upkeep of 80, which puts a strain on my other skills, especially considering AoS has a stamina regen penalty.  Is there a way to use sustainables and still be able to utilize abilities?  Should I be completely ignoring wil as most are suggesting?  Also, is supressing fire a worthwhile skill?  It has basically the same upkeep as ranger talents so stamina isn't a huge problem here, but when I used it before it didn't seem to be doing much.  I though I could basically use that instead of crippling shot, but crippling shot still seems more effective.

One more cun question, I thought being at ~40 and having deft hands would be good enough for most chests, especially only at mid-game.  Does this depend on my boosted cun score or my base score?  




Balancing dex and cunn will make a difference in terms of attack. You will have a bit more attack rating than a pure Cunning build. The apparent difference in the attack rating because of the presence of a rogue, will be marginal, in your case that is, as you'll have considerable dex by endgame anyway. All this in terms of attack rating, not taking into account the other benefits from Bard Songs that you get. From a damage dealing PoV, keeping out a rogue with SoC only means cutting out on your damage dealing potential. But if you don't want to bring Leliana along, then just don't. But you know the trade-offs.

The efficiency of Archery talents given their mana cost is not really good. It is advisable to use archery talents only when really necessary, at least in the early part of the game, but it's up to you. If you want to use talents in every battle along with multiple sustainables, turned on, you will need a bit more willpower, and constant support from a creation mage through rejuvenate, mass rejuvenation, and spellbloom.

The reason why people ignore willpower is because an optimized archer will mostly autoattack with a high crit chance, and crit almost every shot, which is far better than using talents (in most cases) that have multiple second set-up time and high cost to effectiveness ratio.

The penalties from suppressing fire will stack, while that of crippling shot won't. Looking at the regular mob which don't really need suppressing, these sort of debuffing talents are better used against a boss in my opinion, or not at all.

Lockpicking effectiveness depends on your boosted cunning score. With a modified cunning score of 70, you can pick any chest in the game without any points in the deft hands tree. What the talents in the deft hand tree do is add 10 cunning each, for lockpicking and trap-disarming check. So to say, with Device Mastery and only 30 modified cunning, you can unlock any chest.

#22
zenrockoutkast

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Cool, thanks. Seems to me that if I want to use a cun build, seeing as how it's relying on auto-attack, I'm going to have to boost my chance to hit somehow.

#23
Blazomancer

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Exactly, stacking Song of Courage twice (or more??), Aim, Heroic Offense, Rally, should do it.

#24
Aaramis

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The beauty of archery is that you can boost your crit % chance to 100 (or almost 100) using Aim, Song of Courage (x2 possibly), and Shale's Rock Mastery buff, along with various equipment pieces (Far Song, etc.).

Once you get to that point, your damage from regular attacks with be on par, or perhaps better, than most Archery special attacks - so don't bother wasting your stamina unless you want to use Scattershot, open with Arrow of Slaying, etc. Not to mention you can pair your high crit chance with Morrigan and/or Wynne, who can freeze enemies - letting you shatter them for quick insta-kills.

As for stats: Str - stop at about 18ish which, after equipment, should be sitting at 24+, which is enough for all light armours. The rest dump into Cunning and Dex (I tend to try for 40+ Dex and Cun endgame). Willpower I tend to stop at 20ish since I rarely use special attacks.

Hope this helps.