58 réponses à ce sujet

[KrAzY WiSh]

Baa Baa wrote...

I pretty sure they just ****ed up and ruined a franchise with their "artistic vision"

This.

[Armass81]

Keep dreaming...

Even if that were true the plot would IMO take turn for even worse.

Modifié par Armass81, 15 juin 2012 - 01:55 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

adam32867 wrote...

i'll take dark energy over organics vs synthetics any day

Really? You want this one? You're sure? 
---------------------------------------------------
And you walk up to the top of the Crucible and talk to Starbrat and he says:

C: "Wake up!"

S: "Where am I?"

C: "The Citadel."

S: "Who are you?"

C: "I am the Catalyst."

S: "I need to destroy the reapers. Do you know how I can do that?"

C: "Yes, but you might not want to do that."

S: "Why not?"

C: "There is a serious problem in the galaxy, and the reapers are my solution."

S: "Solution to what?"

C: "The dark energy problem. We created the mass relays so that organics would advance along the technological paths we required, and this system allows us to monitor them. When organics reach a certain technological level they cannot be allowed to progress any further or the galaxy will be destroyed."

S: "What do you mean?"

C: "We know you were on Haestrom. The star was aging prematurely. It is due to an unnatural build up of dark energy in the center of the star. That will happen to all stars in 200 of your solar years. Every 50,000 years we cull the galaxy of all advanced organic life. We could simply destroy all of you out, but instead we chose to preserve you in reaper form."

S: "What if we don't want to be preserved? What if we want to keep our own form?"

C: "You cannot. You will have only 200 years to solve the dark energy problem yourselves. Each cycle brings us 15 years closer to the end. Your species is unique."

S: "So I've been told."

C: "Yes. We need to make a human reaper because your species contains the qualities that could be the solution to this problem. We've been waiting for you for over 20,000 cycles. If you had allowed the Collectors to finish their job perhaps, since it is only 200 years to the end, we might have avoided this culling cycle."

S: "You mean this entire war could have been avoided?"

C: "Yes, but you fought us, and that was not unexpected. We had hoped you wouldn't."

S: "What will happen to you once the problem is solved?"

C: "We will
retreat to dark space and sleep. In a billion years a nearby galaxy will
collide with this one and we may be needed again.

"You have a difficult decision to make for the galaxy. Will you let your species and the others be harvested so that we may solve the dark energy problem and save future of the galaxy? Or will you destroy us and hope that you will solve it on your own in the next 200 years?"

S: "That's it? Those are the choices?"

C: "There are different paths for you to choose.

"* You may do nothing and sacrifice your species and the rest of the galaxy for all future races to solve the dark energy problem for the next billion years. You will be part of that collective if you wish.

"* You may fully activate the Crucible which will destroy the reapers, the citadel, and the mass relays, and all technology based on our technology. Even you contain parts that are based on our technology. You will die. Your starships all contain drives that are based on our technology. This will give you another 50,000 years to solve the problem, but will also return your technology to the level it was at before you made contact with the galactic community.

"* You may partially activate the Citadel which will just destroy us and leave the mass relays and all of your technology intact, but this will leave you with only 200 years in which to solve the problem before all planets in the galaxy become unihabitable for life.

S: "I... don't know."
-----------------------------------------

So that's the way it would end with the dark energy ending. Send the galaxy back to the a galactic dark age, leave 200 years to solve the problem with a crippled industrial base, or allow the galaxy to be harvested and solve the problem.

Have fun with this one, too. <_< And do you think that the politicians would believe you?

"Ah yes, 'Dark Energy'. We've dismissed that myth." They only have your word and that of a couple of suit rats (Quarians) scientists who hopefully weren't killed, and even then it would require at least inconvenience for them to do anything until more stars became like Haestrom's. Then it would be too late.

So dark age? For earth it means going back to the good old days of 50 years earlier. For everyone else it means going back a few thousand years. Just destroy the reapers and take our chances with the politicians? Or let 'em be harvested?

Okay so say you pick 200 yrs. which of course will be canon for the next trilogy. ME4.5.6.: solving the D.E. plot is going to require a lot of :wizard: and "art", or they might go completely grim-dark on us and leave us with this ending: radiation output from the sun begins to increase dramatically and starts killing life on the surface of the earth, and the same thing starts happening on Palaven, Thessia, Rannoch, Khar'shan, Dekunna, and where ever the races are living. We could find no solution to the problem. It is too late. Because "art".

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The problem with the dark energy plot is that we don't really understand dark energy ourselves. Its existence is hypothetical. It is thought to make up 74% of the known universe. Dark matter another 22%. This doesn't leave much for stuff we can observe like intergalactic gas and stars. We don't really even know what it does yet. There are models about what it does, but who knows for sure. All I know is that sci-fi writers especially in a video game would get what science there is on this subject completely wrong, and it would completely go over the heads of about 95% of the people.

[Armass81]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

adam32867 wrote...

i'll take dark energy over organics vs synthetics any day

Really? You want this one? You're sure? 
---------------------------------------------------
*SNIP*

Yep thats pretty much it. In Dark energy it goes like "oh by the way, SURPRISE, we were always the good guys and youve been fighting against us for 3 games worth and so everything you did in the previous games, its all been for nothing, so heres 2-3 grim choices for you how to end the trilogy, one where every human/being youve met gets horribly killed and turned into a cyborg brain or 1-2 endings which are not guaranteed to solve anything and eventually the whole universe will die. Oh and we dont have to explain how turning organics into reapers prevents the dark energy problem at all, A wizard did it. Hope you enjoyed the ME trilogy!"

Id still take the singularity ending over this crap.

Modifié par Armass81, 15 juin 2012 - 02:13 .

[K. S. Black]

From what I've read, the Dark Energy plot had a lot more to it. Sure it was hinted at in ME2, but if you recall, everything in the Mass Effect universe revolves around Eezo and Dark energy. In ME1 we're introduced to it, in ME2 we see what happens to a star (Haestrom) because of it. And I'm sure in ME3 there would have been many more hints to it. Because Soverigns signal failed when it tried to bring the rest of the reapers, it had been carefully gathering allies for a while until it could take the citadel, which had caused an excess buildup of dark energy during this time. In ME2 it was largly hinted that Humans had a much more diverce genetic code than any other species before, which somehow relates to the stopping of dark energy (probably would have been explained more in ME3 had they not cut it out (Possibly during contruction of crucible if they had this concept before hand? IE: Shepard running into beam of light.)). The human reaper was a desperate attempt because the buildup of dark energy was getting worse. Even in the Arrival DLC the crew overlooking Object Rho said that they got the count down from the dark energy pulses it was giving off. The reapers were supposedly a race that combined itself in a horrific manner in trying to find a solution to the dark energy problem. At the end, instead of talking to some godchild, Shepard would talk to Harbinger about this and be presented with two options: Choose to let the Human race to become a reaper to help stop dark energy, or destroy the reapers and find another solution.

Now in the ME3 we have, it disregards why they were using the Collectors to make a human reaper. It disregards the buildup of Harbinger to only a cameo appearance of him shooting a laser at Shepard in the end (If you had a previous playthrough, otherwise they'll just say some soverign-class reapers broke off to go to earth). And we have some random godchild who uses circular logic not to mention if it wanted to "preserve" organic beings in reaper form, what was the point of the Collectors if they could have made a Prothean reaper instead?

They did have a good plot going then they changed it for whatever reason into a crappy ending we got. Now true, I wouldn't be as upset if they had explained why Joker was running away from Earth, why the Mass Relays HAD to blow up (either stranding everyone where they're at or killing everyone in the cluster). It is my opinion that the dark energy ending would have been a much better ending than this if they had expanded on it.

Modifié par K. S. Black, 16 juin 2012 - 07:18 .

[Mcfly616]

comrade gando wrote...

maybe, truth is nobody knows anything except the writers at bioware. I suspect they have a huge plot twist in store for EC.

To the first sentence: that is the undeniable truth....the truth which few recognize....or refuse to recognize...


To the second sentence: Here's to hoping....

[Mcfly616]

And to those hating on the Dark Energy ending.....yes it would've been much better than the RGB/StarChild ending......first of all, the explanation that the Reapers are good guys is inaccurate.....they are the custodians of the Galaxy(pertaining to the Dark Energy plot)....they are trying to save the galaxy. However, they are doing so by horrific means....possibly the only.means.....(would've been the ultimate Plot-Twist)

Which is a much better explanation than "we're robots who kill organics, in order to save them from the robots, that they may or may not create.....who may or may not rebel"......

Yeah? No.....

The Dark Energy plot fits perfectly with the foreshadowing construed in ME1 by Sovereign("we are your salvation through destruction").....and the foreshadowing in ME2 on Haelstrom and during Tali's suicide mission.....

If the Bioware team was trying to be "deep" and "artistic", as well as trying to create a difficult, yet poetic choice at the end.....it should've been the Dark Energy plot.....choose sacrifice your own kind to "surely" save the galaxy, so that all of your closest friends.and their races can live on(and have humans.to remember as the saviors of the galaxy).....or push the F.U. button on the Reapers and say:Nah "F" THAT! I'm not sacrificing anybody....destroy the Reapers and bank on the notion that you'll find another solution to the Dark Energy threat, without sacrificing your humanity....


And then they could've rolled the credits....and that would've been the successful "open-ended" conclusion that Bioware was going for.....


Too bad, that what they went with(StarChild, RGB) has nothing to do with anything that was established in the franchise.....atleast Dark Energy provided a "good/thoughtful" difficult choice to make.....other than the ridiculous one we were actually presented with.....


Then again...the people that hate on the Dark Energy plot just want to see their L.I. again.....and that the relays don't get destroyed....and we can have a.grand.Disney ending......

Don't.get me wrong....I'm completely for "ALL POSSIBLE ENDINGS, depending on your choices throughout.the saga"....The good, the bad, the ugly, and the best possible outcome.....but there has to be sacrifice somewhere....you.can't save them all....


Honestly....as it stands right now.....ME3 doesn't even have a "climax".....let alone a "conclusion/resolution".....what we got is definitely not an ending...

Modifié par Mcfly616, 16 juin 2012 - 07:52 .

[Blacklash93]

Ansible wrote...
My point is, the Dark Energy plot isn't anything. We don't know enough about it, or how it could have changed since the vague reveal we got way back when.

I could argue something similar in the Organics vs. Synthetics motivations for the Reapers. It's vague and doesn't give many details.

There's no reason to believe Bioware would have given Dark Energy any better of a  justification than Organics vs. Synthetics. They didn't even want to properly explain what they ended up doing. What makes us Dark Energy would have been handled any better?

As a skeleton concept I do not like DE. Here's why:

Dark Energy makes humans to be the undisputed saviors of the galaxy and we have enough human-wanking in this series already. And if the Reapers are running out of time then god forbid they have enough time to actually excecute a galaxy-saving plan involving abstract matter/energy if the human reaper can actually come up with something. Also why would a supercomputer solving a problem like this have to be AI from organic minds? The Reapers would look like hypocrites kind of in the same vein of Singularity considering they use dark energy to power themselves, as well.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 16 juin 2012 - 08:08 .

[Mcfly616]

@Blacklash 93....


See above....

[Jadebaby]

Ansible wrote...

Tommyspa wrote...

Dark Energy is worse than Synthetics vs Organics.

We got a tiny snippet of what the plot could have been, and it could have been very early in development.

My point is, the Dark Energy plot isn't anything. We don't know enough about it, or how it could have changed since the vague reveal we got way back when.

Although we don't know much about it, from what we do know it sounds a lot worse than Synthetics vs Organics. Mostly because it would be harder to dismiss as a Catalyst lie.

To put Dark Energy and the IT theory to the test,

What if the original plot was that the Reapers told Shepard they do the cycle because of Dark Energy, but then after Shepard "wakes up" she finds out that Dark Energy is actually the key to defeating them? Yea that sounded a lot better in my head...

[Mcfly616]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Ansible wrote...

Tommyspa wrote...

Dark Energy is worse than Synthetics vs Organics.

We got a tiny snippet of what the plot could have been, and it could have been very early in development.

My point is, the Dark Energy plot isn't anything. We don't know enough about it, or how it could have changed since the vague reveal we got way back when.

Although we don't know much about it, from what we do know it sounds a lot worse than Synthetics vs Organics. Mostly because it would be harder to dismiss as a Catalyst lie.

To put Dark Energy and the IT theory to the test,

What if the original plot was that the Reapers told Shepard they do the cycle because of Dark Energy, but then after Shepard "wakes up" she finds out that Dark Energy is actually the key to defeating them? Yea that sounded a lot better in my head...

No matter how you slice it.....Dark Energy still would've been worlds better than RGB/StarBrat

As explained in my previous post.....as well as the last question you posed within this post i have quoted here

Sort of a twist on Dark Energy with incorporating the IT.....definitely sounds.cool....

Modifié par Mcfly616, 16 juin 2012 - 08:17 .

[Blacklash93]

I saw it.

The majority of your praises to DE could easily apply to OvsS (reapers' morality being ambiguous, salvation via destruction, faith-based final decision, ect). The only thing DE has behind it that OvsS doesn't have is the Haestrom and Dark Energy mentions in ME2 as foreshadowing. But that doesn't make the motivation itself superior conceptually.

I'll also point out that DE does not guarantee the Catalyst would be replaced by Harbinger or such.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 16 juin 2012 - 08:21 .

[Mcfly616]

OvvS?


Sorry....guess Im not familiar with that one.....

[nos_astra]

The only thing that makes DE slightly better is that it was foreshadowed. It's still convoluted. It still relies heavily on circular logic. And it seems to have other logical flaws.

[Blacklash93]

Organics vs Synthetics. Sorry I coin shorter ways to put things often.

[Abraham_uk]

The ending is not going to change!

It the Bioware writing team say that Extended Cut isn't a new ending then....

Extended Cut isn't a new ending.

Sorry guys, but this had been confirmed hundreds of times by Bioware.
Extended cut just explains the endings we got and provides some additional closure.
That's it.


But the Dark Energy plot does sound interesting. Perhaps that would be the plot of Mass Effect 4.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 16 juin 2012 - 08:25 .

[Blacklash93]

klarabella wrote...

The only thing that makes DE slightly better is that it was foreshadowed. It's still convoluted. It still relies heavily on circular logic. And it seems to have other logical flaws.

If they had the Crucible while considering the Dark Energy motivation that would make no sense. The Crucible creates a giant dark energy chain-explosion that would spread the stuff all over the galaxy. And considering you had the choice to kill all the Reapers even in Dark Energy that seems to imply the Crucible existed at that stage.

[Armass81]

How is the synthetic conflict in ME series not foreshadowing? You know, the fact that AI is banned, the geth-quarian war, the geth attacking outside veil, the gambling AI? Project Overlord? Hahne-Kedar Facility. The Lunar VI? The Zha'til? All this vs Couple of lines in Talis Mission in ME2.

Organic vs synthetic conflict has been one of the driving themes in this series. From the beginning. I agree its only one of the themes among many, but its undeniably there. Only thing we didnt know was that reapers were originally created to prevent exactly this, tough through very perverse means.

Modifié par Armass81, 16 juin 2012 - 08:34 .

[Mcfly616]

Drew > Mac

[Abraham_uk]

Armass81 wrote...

How is the synthetic conflict in ME series not foreshadowing? You know, the fact that AI is banned, the geth-quarian war, the geth attacking outside veil, the gambling AI? Project Overlord? Hahne-Kedar Facility. The Lunar VI? The Zha'til? All this vs Couple of lines in Talis Mission in ME2.

Organic vs synthetic conflict has been one of the driving themes in this series. From the beginning. I agree its only one of the themes among many, but its undeniably there. Only thing we didnt know was that reapers were originally created to prevent exactly this, tough through very perverse means.

Great response!
Forshadowed indeed!

[Mcfly616]

Mass Effect writer Drew Karpyshyn revealed his original intent for the ending of Mass Effect 3, which involved the concept of Dark Energy, which was hinted at in the previous two games, such as on Haelstrom during Tali's recruitment mission, when she commented that the planet's sun was an advanced age for no scientific reason.


The Dark Energy was a force that was going to consume everything. According to Karpyshyn, "The Reapers as a whole were 'nations' of people who had fused together in the most horrific way possible to help find a way to stop the spread of the Dark Energy. The real reason for the Human Reaper was supposed to be the Reapers saving throw because they had run out of time. Humanity in Mass Effect is supposedly unique because of its genetic diversity and represented the universe's best chance at stopping Dark Energy's spread."

The original choice was between killing the Reapers and trying to find a way to stop the Dark Energy threat with what little time was left before it consumed the galaxy, or, "Sacrifice humanity, allowing them to be horrifically processed in hopes that the end result will justify the means."

[Mcfly616]

Umm yeah.....the concept of Dark Energy ending, as described by DK, is waaaay better and more thoughtful concept than RGB....and way better than Casper the goddamn StarBrat.....honestly, before you ever saw the ending, could you in all seriousness.could've guessed that a ghostly child would be the last person you spoke to before the credits rolled.....HELL NO....even.if you guess there would be a Deus Ex(terrible plot device), I bet my quad that nobody literally thought: "okay, now, enter 'Casper the StarBrat child kid that died on Earth' now"

[grey_wind]

I really hope not. The DE plot is just as retarded as the Tech Singularity one. It doesn't make a lick of sense if you read up or know anything about Dark Energy.

[Erixxxx]

I doubt we'll see anything about it in the EC, but the feeling I've had from the day I learned how this was scrubbed I've had no doubts that it'll be brought up in future games in the franchise.