70 réponses à ce sujet

[Kunari801]

I hope so, I like story driven RPGs. If they see a profit in it they will. I'd hate for the game industry to de-evolve into yearly releases of CoD and Madden clones with the only RPGs being MMOs. /sigh

[.458]

xxskyshadowxx wrote...

Problem with games now is that the cost of goods is pretty high when compared with the revenue the games earn. So profit margins decrease and as a result, corporations are less willing to take risks or do anything different. This is why games are starting to mimic each other even between genres to a degree, and there are continued conveyor belt reiterations and disc-locked and Day 1 DLC, etc. Folks don't seem to mind much (forum complaints and whatnot aside, the games and DLC still sell) so I expect this trend to continue.

When the new consoles hit the markets, I expect this trend to get worse, as the cost to make the games will be much increased.

I think in the early days games made most of their money at the start. Then games got to be shorter attention span, and ended up morphing more into the longer term play, like subscriptions. Non-subscription online applies too, it's just that there are advertisers or other options that people end up indirectly paying the service for (just not the gamer). The subscriber version is something like WoW, the non-subscriber with advertisers and financial side effects would be something like StarCraft. For ME3, you have the opportunity to get ahead by buying BW points, or to buy BW points for DLC.

The more emotionally attached and the more long term the feeling of progress and building continues, the more people will play either the non-subscriber or the subscriber versions. This is why so far I don't think ME3 is succeeding and ME4 would not work...the bugs with lack of response are a big downer, along with nerf arguments and short term goals. Character cards don't help much at all for any sense of fulfillment, and the short missions with the only future of a level 20 being N7 promotion (also meaningless) won't hold attention for years like WoW would or StarCraft. The attitude of the game company plays a big part in this. It's hard to want to participate in this for years; doing so would make the initial cost of development irrelevant compared to other things people would buy (forget ever buying N7 sneakers without an attachment to the game).

Modifié par .458, 15 juin 2012 - 05:08 .

[covertdrizzt]

I think they will continue to make games like mass effect. I have to wonder if it is worth the money spent to continue making them for PS3 and PC. Just looking at the month of march, Mass effect 3 sold 1.3 million copies. 943k of those sales were for xbox 360 version.

[Comguard2]

It's just a question of demand. Obviously there is a demand. You can't sell CoD-numbers, but creating Million-sellers is possible.

Problem: everyone wants to create CoD-numbers. Producing for the niches-markets (and imo role-plays, and the hole sub-genres like fantasy, J-RPG and space opera are niche-markets compared to action games) seems to be out of fashion. But it will be back when companies realize there is just a limited number of games that can achieve CoD-figures.

Cyclical production. After years they realized that there are people who want to play 4x-Games, so they produce them. So, we will get our new epic roleplays. Just a matter of time.

[FlamingBoy]

i hope they at least finish the mass effect series before they start a new emotional rollercoster,
but i can't see why not

[redknight38]

The original point makes an excellent point. Game manufacturers and distributors don't distinguish between genres the way players do, they just want games that make money, whichever that is. It IS entirely possible for an entire genre to die out or practically disappear based on (perceived) market demand. Publishers or game financiers simply stop making games they don't think fit the current trend.

Case in point: when was the last time anybody saw a Jane's style flight simulator? All I see are arcade-ish crap games like Ace Combat. What has happened to the turn-based military wargame? The SSI brand folded and you don't see Panzer Generals, Operational Art of War or Close Combat type games in the bigger market anymore. Hell, Lucasarts doesn't even want to make an X-Wing type game anymore. I deplore this since I happened to like those games and from what I remember those games were still fairly profitable. Once upon a time, the release of Jane's: F-15 was considered a big event in the gaming world and it was considered a AAA title. They just didn't rake in the same money as other types of games and so were phased out.

It IS entirely possible for single player epic RPG games to disappear in favor of MMOs. This whole Mass Effect 3 imbroglio strongly suggests to me that Bioware will slowly abandon its old formula for multi-player. This will become more likely if DA3 fails.

Indie developers aren't entirely a good salvation either-- low production values, low budgets and small staffs can be hamstringing. Again, case in point, the last bastion of strategy games and flight sims are small(er) or independent publishers and their products can be iffy. Take for instance the Sturmovik line of flight sims. Hard core flight sims players worship these games because they model everything from moving dials in the cockpit to propeller pitch settings. However, the game designers cut corners in order to achieve this and basically shipped the games with no campaigns-- what they have are boring. They were hoping for user-made campaigns and, frankly, the ones I've tried haven't been very good because of a lack of professionalism. It's very rare for a mod to achieve professional-level quality-- it's why the few that do in any game become very famous. As for indie-RPGs... I keep thinking of the failure of Broken Hourglass.

Modifié par redknight38, 15 juin 2012 - 05:22 .

[Darth_Trethon]

M25105 wrote...

I wrote specifically New Super Mario Bros. Wii in my opening post. That game sold over 25 million copies, if you took every game that involves Mario in some way or another, the number would be in the hundreds of millions.
You can't seem to understand this concept, so no wonder you're facepalming.

It's marketing speech and I'm quite sure it didn't. Marketing speech is double speak....a way of lying without lying....twisting words to make things sound a certain way and manipulate the mind to jump to a certain false conclusion. They were talking about a speciffic game but likely referring to franchise sales....Mario is also abou all the Wii ever really had besides Zelda and Metroid so Wii owners(mostly children, soccer moms and such) didn't have a whole lot to choose from. The Wii made lots of money by being mostly worthless. And now Kinect pretty much took over that market and is stomping with huge sales. 

It doesn't mean BioWare games are not as good as Mario, it just means kids can be pretty stupid on top of not being allowed to play any half decent game. I mean really...if you're under 17 you're mostly restricted to worthless crap.

[DeepChild]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

M25105 wrote...

I wrote specifically New Super Mario Bros. Wii in my opening post. That game sold over 25 million copies, if you took every game that involves Mario in some way or another, the number would be in the hundreds of millions.
You can't seem to understand this concept, so no wonder you're facepalming.

It's marketing speech and I'm quite sure it didn't. Marketing speech is double speak....a way of lying without lying....twisting words to make things sound a certain way and manipulate the mind to jump to a certain false conclusion. They were talking about a speciffic game but likely referring to franchise sales....Mario is also abou all the Wii ever really had besides Zelda and Metroid so Wii owners(mostly children, soccer moms and such) didn't have a whole lot to choose from. The Wii made lots of money by being mostly worthless. And now Kinect pretty much took over that market and is stomping with huge sales. 

It doesn't mean BioWare games are not as good as Mario, it just means kids can be pretty stupid on top of not being allowed to play any half decent game. I mean really...if you're under 17 you're mostly restricted to worthless crap.

With regards to sales numbers the OP is right and you're wrong.  The rest of your point is lost on me as a result of your refusal to come to grips with what I just said.

[Ridwan]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

M25105 wrote...

I wrote specifically New Super Mario Bros. Wii in my opening post. That game sold over 25 million copies, if you took every game that involves Mario in some way or another, the number would be in the hundreds of millions.
You can't seem to understand this concept, so no wonder you're facepalming.

It's marketing speech and I'm quite sure it didn't. Marketing speech is double speak....a way of lying without lying....twisting words to make things sound a certain way and manipulate the mind to jump to a certain false conclusion. They were talking about a speciffic game but likely referring to franchise sales....Mario is also abou all the Wii ever really had besides Zelda and Metroid so Wii owners(mostly children, soccer moms and such) didn't have a whole lot to choose from. The Wii made lots of money by being mostly worthless. And now Kinect pretty much took over that market and is stomping with huge sales. 

It doesn't mean BioWare games are not as good as Mario, it just means kids can be pretty stupid on top of not being allowed to play any half decent game. I mean really...if you're under 17 you're mostly restricted to worthless crap.

No. Since apparently you refuse to believe me, maybe you'll believe this.

Sales figures of the Nintendo games.

And I don't see the point about your comment on Kinect and the Wii, since those are hardwares. We're talking about Softwares, the only thing I see is you coming across as an angry individual hating everyone that enjoys playing Super Mario.

Stick the subject of the thread dude, you're coming off as a very negative and insulting person.

Modifié par M25105, 15 juin 2012 - 05:38 .

[Arondell]

redknight38 wrote...

The original point makes an excellent point. Game manufacturers and distributors don't distinguish between genres the way players do, they just want games that make money, whichever that is. It IS entirely possible for an entire genre to die out or practically disappear based on (perceived) market demand. Publishers or game financiers simply stop making games they don't think fit the current trend.

What you basically have to  have for some types of games is have a company that is made up of employess from top to bottom that love that genre.  Back in the day Sierra Online was like that for adventure games.  It was quite profitable for its approximately 20 year run.  Then Ken Williams decided he wanted to retire and sold the company off.  A few years later it got shut down because it wasn't profitable *enough* to the company that bought it.  I recall an interview with Ken Williams years back where he described how he tried to set things up so that wouldn't happen.   He stated that it was unfortunate that at the time of the negotiations he didn't realize he wasn't dealing with honorable people.

[Thornne]

They are certainly capable of it. Whether they will or not, I don't know.

[Darth_Trethon]

DeepChild wrote...


With regards to sales numbers the OP is right and you're wrong.  The rest of your point is lost on me as a result of your refusal to come to grips with what I just said.

You might have had a point if I had ever read what you actually said or even actually replied to you....since I didn't that point fails badly. 

As for coming to grips with nonsense yes...I think I must have dreamt about some people trying to troll....something to do with some Mario game sales and being better than BioWare games if you can immagine that. You know what destroys all games in terms of sales???? Papeclips..... they're the greatest thing ever. 

I wouldn't worry about telling EA they can make more money by doing retarded things....the ME3 ending proves they're working really hard at it....I'm sure that when they reach the level of stupidity of Mario they'll succeed.....key tips for success being plumbers, mushrooms of power, lizards and princesses. I'm sure BioWare is taking notes.

[Ridwan]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

DeepChild wrote...


With regards to sales numbers the OP is right and you're wrong.  The rest of your point is lost on me as a result of your refusal to come to grips with what I just said.

You might have had a point if I had ever read what you actually said or even actually replied to you....since I didn't that point fails badly. 

As for coming to grips with nonsense yes...I think I must have dreamt about some people trying to troll....something to do with some Mario game sales and being better than BioWare games if you can immagine that. You know what destroys all games in terms of sales???? Papeclips..... they're the greatest thing ever. 

I wouldn't worry about telling EA they can make more money by doing retarded things....the ME3 ending proves they're working really hard at it....I'm sure that when they reach the level of stupidity of Mario they'll succeed.....key tips for success being plumbers, mushrooms of power, lizards and princesses. I'm sure BioWare is taking notes.

Wow. If there ever was a need of a picture of someone missing the point, it would be you.

[termokanden]

I'm hoping for more like DAO and the first two Mass Effects. Maybe they could have a bit of a deeper plot than ME and DAO did though. The darkspawn in particular were generic evil monsters, and the reapers were completely unexplained until their purpose got revealed in the cheesy ending.

BioWare are capable of making another hit for sure. I just hope they are able to grab the good parts from DAO and ME and work on the rest. Might be difficult to do if they want to broaden the appeal even more though.

Wouldn't mind hearing a few of the voice actors again either!

[Darth_Trethon]

M25105 wrote...

No. Since apparently you refuse to believe me, maybe you'll believe this.

Sales figures of the Nintendo games.

And I don't see the point about your comment on Kinect and the Wii, since those are hardwares. We're talking about Softwares, the only thing I see is you coming across as an angry individual hating everyone that enjoys playing Super Mario.

Stick the subject of the thread dude, you're coming off as a very negative and insulting person.

ROFL 

New Super Mario Bros Wii

Units sold globally in terms of thousands 2,547......that's 2,547,000 or roughly around 2.55 million or less than three million for the mathematically inept....FAIL

EDIT Apparently I can't read does say tens of thousands which would make it 25 mil so laugh it up

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 15 juin 2012 - 07:30 .

[Ridwan]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

M25105 wrote...

No. Since apparently you refuse to believe me, maybe you'll believe this.

Sales figures of the Nintendo games.

And I don't see the point about your comment on Kinect and the Wii, since those are hardwares. We're talking about Softwares, the only thing I see is you coming across as an angry individual hating everyone that enjoys playing Super Mario.

Stick the subject of the thread dude, you're coming off as a very negative and insulting person.

ROFL 

New Super Mario Bros Wii

Units sold globally in terms of thousands 2,547......that's 2,547,000 or roughly around 2.55 million or less than three million for the mathematically inept....FAIL

Units in terms of TEN THOUSAND.

><

[Darth_Trethon]

M25105 wrote...


Units in terms of TEN THOUSAND.

><

Yeah my FAIL on that point....still I don't see BioWare developing for the Wii and I doubt they ever will be but you still lack a point. Mario games were spammed by Nintendo because on a platform without many options a recognizable title does wonders. What they really succeeded at were convincing kids the Wii was great and the parents that it would provide them much needed exarcise and others still with an excuse to claim they actually did any exercise. Then the game was bundled with the platform for about a decade or so iirc which inflates sale numbers with actual platform sales.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 15 juin 2012 - 07:43 .

[AlanC9]

redknight38 wrote...

The original point makes an excellent point. Game manufacturers and distributors don't distinguish between genres the way players do, they just want games that make money, whichever that is. It IS entirely possible for an entire genre to die out or practically disappear based on (perceived) market demand. Publishers or game financiers simply stop making games they don't think fit the current trend.

Haven't we always seen genres go in and out of favor, though? I think the big difference today is that the gap between A-list developers and everyone else is so broad.

What has happened to the turn-based military wargame? The SSI brand folded and you don't see Panzer Generals, Operational Art of War or Close Combat type games in the bigger market anymore.

Close Combat was RTWP. Just say "wargame;" the point still applies.

Indie developers aren't entirely a good salvation either-- low production values, low budgets and small staffs can be hamstringing. Again, case in point, the last bastion of strategy games and flight sims are small(er) or independent publishers and their products can be iffy. Take for instance the Sturmovik line of flight sims. Hard core flight sims players worship these games because they model everything from moving dials in the cockpit to propeller pitch settings. However, the game designers cut corners in order to achieve this and basically shipped the games with no campaigns-- what they have are boring. They were hoping for user-made campaigns and, frankly, the ones I've tried haven't been very good because of a lack of professionalism. It's very rare for a mod to achieve professional-level quality-- it's why the few that do in any game become very famous. As for indie-RPGs... I keep thinking of the failure of Broken Hourglass.

Well, "low production values" is the fault of the gamers, not the indie developers. If demanding that stuff has made your genre unprofitable, you'd better stop demanding it.

[Rockworm503]

 So long as there are people who loves games there will people making them.  Why Mario has to be brought in is beyond me.  Sure it sold more but this isn't the same market.  I love mario as much as the next guy but sometimes I want something more.

[Rockworm503]

M25105 wrote...

Well how long are we going to wait for that game then? Like I said, if I was a publisher, I'd look at the cheap indie games that are selling actually very well, with low costs and I'd give it serious thought whether or not it's worth making big budget games, bribe reviewers (Yes I said bribe), and still not be able to break the 5 million mark.

Take Heavy Rain for example. God knows, how much it cost to develop that game and it couldn't break the 4 million mark. If I was the publisher, I wouldn't want to invest in a sequel of that game.

So lets just make mario clones and not even try to do anything different.
God if everyon thought like you we'd never get passed pong 

[Fidget6]

M25105 wrote...

Casual audience is a term invented by publishers to explain why their so called awesome games failed to meet up to expectations. 

Agreed, so tired of the "casual gamer" BS.

[Rockworm503]

Fidget6 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Casual audience is a term invented by publishers to explain why their so called awesome games failed to meet up to expectations. 

Agreed, so tired of the "casual gamer" BS.

Are you seriously going to tell me that hardcore gamers are playing the Wii?

[slimgrin]

While I believe that anything Mario Brothers is no more innovative than a game of checkers between two monkeys, no, I don't think Bioware will ever top ME1 or DA:O.

Modifié par slimgrin, 15 juin 2012 - 11:00 .