141 réponses à ce sujet

[verrall20]

Rainen89 your knowledge of fighting styles is very limited. the florentine fighting style of sword and mace and sword and dagger was very poplar even on the battlefield and the Asian style of Kali also focused on wielding two weapon at once both styles were well known and widely practised. Also the art of fighting with a single sword was also very common cavalry often wielded no shield as did light infantry several commanders and officers such as the famous Henry V used a single longsword as thier weapon of choice. Learn your facts before spouting off.

[Edelwolf]

Combat and character progression could have been better with spears and 1 sword styles.

[Rainen89]

I'm familiar with asian's style with dual wield and I think it's mostly overglorified. Dual wield is just not practical yes it was used in history, it was not dominant and it was not nearly as successful as those who practiced single weapon/two handed style.



Your comment about single sword is what I meant by using it as a two handed weapon. Yes you did not use a shield everytime you rode off to combat, but you did not use the weapon like you see those who are in love with fencing's style. You used it like you would a two handed weapon. You did not use it hoping to grab someones arm with your left hand (in war.) like you would in a one on fight. I'm not saying one style was or was not used in the past. I'm saying compared to the prevalence of shields and other forms of fighting it was very, very small.

[Thatdude88]

Its called fencing RL one handed sword fighting

[Valtonis]

Rainen89 wrote...

Because most forms of using only one sword adopted a two handed stance or fighting style? Using one sword and only one sword was unheard of.

The chinese would like to have a word with you
so would fencers

Rainen89 wrote...
Granted they did add dual wield into the game and no one's ever really perfected that fighting style...ever.

Miyamoto Musashi would like to have a word with you

[Rainen89]

Valtonis wrote...

Rainen89 wrote...

Because most forms of using only one sword adopted a two handed stance or fighting style? Using one sword and only one sword was unheard of.

The chinese would like to have a word with you
so would fencers

Rainen89 wrote...
Granted they did add dual wield into the game and no one's ever really perfected that fighting style...ever.

Miyamoto Musashi would like to have a word with you

Fencers - see sport, Shaolin? Yes, I'm aware of their dual wield. I am not saying that one or the other was not used throughout history. They were not however used in armies. Nor was such a thing commonplace. Dual wield was not an easy skill to master so it being prevalent is kind've unheard of. As far as Miyamoto Musashi, using swords that were one handed as a two handed weapon is about as famous as you can get in Japan? A katana or any sword similar to it's design was perfect and used to disarm/strike without another weapon however, you did so with both arms quite a bit, not just one. Pommel strike is practically coined off Bushido.

[The Console Version is good]

Spanish and Samuria sword fighting usually only consisted of a one handed sword. Also Ezio in Assasins creed 2 does not use a shield and he has a one handed sword.

[Silensfurtim]

we Kali/Escrima/Arnis people do this all the time. dual swords, dual sticks, dual knives. you obviously don't know what youre talking about.

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

Maybe all this is because they want a more medieval theme rather than making it exotic, none offense but I do like other martial arts more though, but for keeping the game where it should be then the current ways seem fine enough for me.

[KnightDeDraco]

I just think i would be cool that you could use the same animations as shield class but you can add abilities like stealing someones shield or backhanding an enemy or maybe even ripping an opponents weapon out of his hand and using it against him or her.

[vyvexthorne]

There are tons of one handed sword fighting techniques as well as duel sword fighting techniques.
Forms of fencing were used with foils, epees, sabers and rapiers. Eskrima or Kali can be used with a light short type sword or sticks in a single or duel style. Krabi Krabong can be used with sticks, swords (duel or single) and even shields. Yamanni ryu teaches use of the bo, sai, tonfa, nunchaku and kama which are all basically duel wielded weapons. Weapons were made to be functional and all have a certain technique to be used for it..

Modifié par vyvexthorne, 13 décembre 2009 - 11:13 .

[Silensfurtim]

so who used the Single Weapon proficiency in BG2? i never used it. what were its advanatges?

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

Would also point out that you might as well make a Monk profession if you would like to implent martial stuff like this.. would work though in some ways. hand to hand.. bo sticks... kama... and so on and so forth, but they only made 3 core profession to the game as it is.

[memtz]

I know that in the west during the late Middle-Ages and Renaissance, dual-wielding was commonly used by thieves, bandits and pirates. Dual-wielding was pretty common in skirmishes. Throwing daggers were common for these people. That's why the rogue's choice is dual-wielding in the game. In the ancient times, Asian armies had dual-wielding elite fighters, like the Persians. Human history is just too big to dismiss the use of the dual-wielding style in wars.

[Mordaedil]

I was wondering the same thing actually, except not as demanding as the title suggests.

The answer I came to was that they are going to need to add new talents in expansions. A one-handed route would be very nice for rogues, indeed.

We'll see if Bioware thinks it needs new animations or not.

[Ikasekt]

Just because Dual Wielding wasn't "predominant" doesn't mean it wasn't effective. One on one, these ambidextrous killers could beat ANYONE. I don't see what bringing mainstream warfare and fighting styles into the argument actually proves. Yes, the single sword and shield conquered the world. In an army, it was absolutely essential.



But we are talking about heroes here. Single fighters or small band taking on another band in skirmishes. The sword and shield that conquered the world has no real bearing here. An ambidextrous killer with a single sword and a dagger would, and HAS, defeated anyone who should come against them.

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

parry dagger + longsword has been used alot back in those days as for mentioning something else... do not let the idealogy go like American Ninja ideas... it is not like you guys over there got 1000s of years of Country based warrior styles as the styles merely is adopted from Europe and Asia... with an Exception for the native American Indians of course.

[Lord Ed1]

Can this not be implemented using the toolset? With some work on skills and animations, I would also love to use a single sword. Probably like Aragorn; 2h, but with more speed and accuracy than the current 2h swords/weapons.

[phordicus]

i'm happy the pretend expert here is getting his ass handed to him.  single-weapon combat has as much historical justification as the absolute king of soldier loadouts, the spear and shield.  even his sacrosanct longsword and shield heroes had a tendency to drop the shield as battles wore on and stamina and maneuverability became critical concerns.

continue on.  it makes me laugh.

Modifié par phordicus, 13 décembre 2009 - 12:06 .

[royen1]

Can someone actually provide a reliable source for the statement that *everyone* used a sword and shield on medieval battlefields? Some basic research on my part seems to suggest in particular using a single longsword wasn't all that uncommon. See for example the various combat manuals (fechtbuche) from 1300 onwards that touch only in passing on sword and shield-fighting.



Historically, the shield was made obsolete by the development of full plate armor, ie, using a shield along with full plate didn't provide much in terms of additional protection while also making the combatant less effective. Full plate armor is present in the game, now draw your own conclusions from that.

[phordicus]

full plate+shield is a fantasy convention promoted by movies. that tick is not going to come out easily.

so who used the Single Weapon proficiency in BG2? i never used it. what were its advanatges?

i did, mostly because you couldn't have a bow in a quickslot if you had something in your off-hand. the advantages were an AC bonus and the best critical range boost possible (-2 and 18+).

Modifié par phordicus, 13 décembre 2009 - 12:20 .

[Jitawa]

I think an earlier poster stated it best when he said the melee classes lack the cross-tree flexibility of say, mages, who can mix and match.



The sword and shield style is about using a shield AND a sword, but the only attacks in the skill set are using a shield... as opposed to the "weapon". Not a single skill that can be used/transferred if you were just holding a weapon.



The dual wield style allows you to bring an additional weapon to bear, though you're limited for quite awhile to a small dagger in the offhand. This roughly equates to a style using something like a main gauche in the offhand. There is no skill that allows you to benefit without having that weapon in the offhand, no attack that can be done with one weapon. Even sustained skills based around you moving faster... unusable in any other instance.



Two-handed is just using a single weapon, however, if you're not wielding that weapon with two hands, you can expect to have the same movelist as a mage. You cannot strike anyone with your pommel. You will not be able to use your "sheer force of will" to become unstunnable or immune to knockdown, despite that seeming to have little to do with having a second hand on a weapon - and in fact, having a free hand probably being more useful in that respect. Your character forgets any knowledge that is beneficial in taking down golems/constructs the second that other hand leaves the hilt. Your character is unable to put any extra strength behind a swing, despite knowing how, and despite "two-handed strength" being a separate part of the tree that merely adds to that talent.



How realistic is a fencing stance? How realistic is going one sword? If you're totally incompetent with a shield, it would seem to be a great idea. Without mastering several levels in dual wielding, going that direction seems more apt to kill you. If your weapon is too small to grip with two hands, grabbing it with two seems silly (though perhaps that should've been an option?)



It just seems stupid to me that you could be a high level warrior, let's say for argument's sake you had read a bunch of tomes and mastered every possible weapon style in the game. You would still have no "special" attacks compared to a mage with no combat training at the same level. At that's sad. That almost all the skills are necessarily locked into these very specific areas.



What you'd be left with is the warrior tree...

[gotthammer]

I too would have liked the option to use a single hand weapon. (well, I'd also have liked a polearm option, too... )



From experience, having practiced 'dual wield' (arnis/escrima) and single weapon (jian, some dao, and, of course, solo weapon for arnis), and even 'two-handed' (kendo...wish I could learn up western weapon MA, but I think that's kinda hard to find here in Asia), I still kinda prefer just one weapon in hand (particularly the jian).

I guess it's ultimately preference. I feel more comfy just utilizing one weapon. Plus for some strikes, like a lunging thrust, having something in your off-hand feels...off.

[Tonya777]

There is its called a greatsword



Its 1 sword with no shield



Realistically what ****ing nut would fight with 1 small sword and no shield and no 2nd sword either? Do you realize how much of a disadvantage that would put them at?



Shields are lifesavers



Greatswords are even lifesavers as they are so long you could attack most enemies without them being able to get close enough to hurt you



2 swords is also a defensive advantage because you can then parry and attack from 2 different swords making you harder to get a hit in on and making it easier for you to hit opponents



This is all realistically speaking of course , using 1 small handed sword in real armed combat would be retarded when presented these other options

[royen1]

Tonya777 wrote...

There is its called a greatsword

Its 1 sword with no shield

Realistically what ****ing nut would fight with 1 small sword and no shield and no 2nd sword either? Do you realize how much of a disadvantage that would put them at?

Surprisingly, a lot of ****ing nuts. If, for example, you're covered from head to toe in plate armor, a shield doesn't really improve your defensive capabilites while severly hampering your offense. Now, even without the protection of heavy armour, using a single sword seems to have been at least as popular as sword and shield. For example, the european longsword was commonly held with both hands.

Shields are lifesavers

Greatswords are even lifesavers as they are so long you could attack most enemies without them being able to get close enough to hurt you

2 swords is also a defensive advantage because you can then parry and attack from 2 different swords making you harder to get a hit in on and making it easier for you to hit opponents

This is all realistically speaking of course , using 1 small handed sword in real armed combat would be retarded when presented these other options

Nonsense. Who told you this?