141 réponses à ce sujet

[minamber]

Sharpus wrote...

The fact is that DA:O is as far as I remember the only fantasy RPG game that doesn't have single weapon fighting style.

Also the fact is that I never ever saw "Why single weapon style?" Threads in ANY forum for any game that contained it . And i don't remember people ****ing about it being "not realistic".

It's just bad game design by Bioware.

Really? Where are all those RPGs then? I must have missed them because as far as I remember, the only game that ever provided actual benefits for using a single 1 handed weapon is BG 2. And even then, it was inferior to any other option for fighters.

Like in all other RPGs, you can use a single weapon in DA. It's just the worst option for any warrior (worse than 2 hand weapons for damage, than using a shield for defense or than dual-wield for number of attacks), and only good for rogues if dual-wield weren't implemented in the game (like in Gothic).

[Sharpus]

Adria Teksuni wrote...
Six enemies surrounding you and trying to kill you with allies close on either side is still six enemies surrounding you and trying to kill you with allies close on either side.  There doesn't have to be another thousand behind those six to make it a "big battle" in terms of combat.

So basically you are saying that bar fight is exactly the same thing as battlefield combat? Kudos to you, and your long lost brain.

Modifié par Sharpus, 13 décembre 2009 - 08:04 .

[Sharpus]

minamber wrote...

Really? Where are all those RPGs then? I must have missed them because as far as I remember, the only game that ever provided actual benefits for using a single 1 handed weapon is BG 2. And even then, it was inferior to any other option for fighters.

Like in all other RPGs, you can use a single weapon in DA. It's just the worst option for any warrior (worse than 2 hand weapons for damage, than using a shield for defense or than dual-wield for number of attacks), and only good for rogues if dual-wield weren't implemented in the game (like in Gothic).

Who cares if it's the worst, the best or in the middle option? If we start to drop every not the best option there is soon we will be left with crpg's that contains 1 character class/race/gender, automatic skill and attributes development. Becouse why would anybody use other option if this is the best one?

And if you missed all the RPG that has option to use 1 handed weapon then maybe there is something wrong with you.

[Fluffykeith]

People keep mentioning this Mount and Blade, I vaguely remember seeing it on cheap in my local games store...is it any good? What's the beef on it?

[minamber]

Well if you have no problem using something underpowered, then why would you not use a single weapon then? You just won't have any talents, not a problem for a pure roleplayer, right?



In an unrelated note, I can't help noticing that you still haven't named even one of all those RPGs that made single weapon a viable style. Must be that something that's wrong with me preventing me from reading the names, of course.

[Bullets McDeath]

All Final Fantasy games.

[minamber]

Fluffykeith wrote...

People keep mentioning this Mount and Blade, I vaguely remember seeing it on cheap in my local games store...is it any good? What's the beef on it?

Mount & Blade is basically a medieval battle simulator, set in a imaginary world with 5 countries (mostly at war with each other). You basically play someone who builds a mercenary troop and fights in the wars.
There is very little RPG element to it, but the combat system is good, you can fight in large-scale battles (up to about 100 people at once I think) and the game implements mounted combat very well.

[MR-9]

Fluffykeith wrote...

People keep mentioning this Mount and Blade, I vaguely remember seeing it on cheap in my local games store...is it any good? What's the beef on it?

www.youtube.com/results

[Felix_Domestica]

Yes, we need that style... In one hand you hold the sword and the other hand is in your pocket... Something like this, just imagine the sword on the right...

http://assets.tobi.c...40/_DSC0514.jpg

[MR-9]

Felix_Domestica wrote...

Yes, we need that style... In one hand you hold the sword and the other hand is in your pocket... Something like this, just imagine the sword on the right...
http://assets.tobi.c...40/_DSC0514.jpg

LOL

[Seclus]

lol felix I would play one handed if I could look that cool!! thats awsome HAHAHA

[Felix_Domestica]

[I Valente I]

I'm sorry if this was mentioned before, I'm not about to scan through an entire thread, but it's entirely possible that they could add a single weapon line specialization class, along the lines of the duelist. Also, I'm actually playing through with a city elf rogue that only uses a dagger(that's right one weapon) it's actually lots of fun since his rogue line will be filled up and he has a nice spread of skills since I don't need to put 4 into the Combat Training line. I think of him as more of a backstabbing opportunist that uses bombs and traps, rather than a "dps" or "cc" or all the other streamlined nonsense.

[Sharpus]

minamber wrote...

Well if you have no problem using something underpowered, then why would you not use a single weapon then? You just won't have any talents, not a problem for a pure roleplayer, right?
 

Actually I can't. DA:O still consider character with single handed weapon as sword + shield both in terms of skills and animations.
And i really doubted that there would be someone with such low IQ to whom I would have to explain that there is a difference between underpowered feature and not included feature. But hey here you are...

minamber wrote...
In an unrelated note, I can't help noticing
that you still haven't named even one of all those RPGs that made
single weapon a viable style. Must be that something that's wrong with
me preventing me from reading the names, of course.

KoToR had dueling tree that increased attack, defense and damage when wielding a single lightsaber.
All D&D  based crpg had feats that worked with single handed weapon
Arcanum
Elder Scrolls series
Gothics
Risen
Fable
Wizardry series
Final Fantasy series (the ones with jobs and classes)
Might and Magic series

And dozens more, whom I don't have time to include, have option to wield single one handed weapon, have animations for them, have the skills that work with single one handed weapon. It doesn't matter whether or not the same skills work for two handed or shield + sword, or that single handed have special bonuses. it matters that single weapon style is IMPLEMENTED correctly and is a viable choice.

Modifié par Sharpus, 13 décembre 2009 - 08:46 .

[minamber]

Okay, I'll give you KotOR, I had forgotten there was a dueling tree in that one (and I think I remember that when you have a single melee weapon equipped, it's actually used 2-handed, but whatever).

But the others? In which of them, exactly, was it a good idea to use a single weapon if you had a better option (i.e. if you were a fighter)?

Notice the keyword "option" here. Most of those games didn't have weapon styles in the first place.

The only difference they made between what weapon you used was animations. They seem very important to you for some reason, because that's the only feature DA lacks when it comes to single weapon use, yet many of the games you cite here didn't actually have different attacking animations. I haven't tried a duelist build (where I might actually use a single weapon) yet, but I'll have you know that if I do, not having a proper animation for it will be the least of my concerns, since I really don't care about graphics.



I also notice that most of them may have "implemented" single weapon style, yet except for the D&D-based games, that came at the cost of implementing dual-wield, and even sword and shield (Gothic, Riven). Now, *you* may prefer single weapon, but I think there are a lot of people who prefer to have dual-wield. The devs can't do everything, after all, and if they have to sacrifice some things, you'll just have to live with it.



Oh, and as a side-note, calling me stupid and saying there's something wrong with me just because I don't agree with you (and you can't understand sarcasm) does nothing to make your pet peeve about the game look more sensible, fyi.

[gotthammer]

My two cents,

On my part, it's more of a 'want', as far as having 'main hand-only' weapons (and polearms! ).

I understand the whole development argument (time, money, priorities, etc.).



It'd be nice, IMHO, to see more diversity in the combat skills/animations/options.

[Felix_Domestica]

Yes, in kotor you did not have single handed weapons, those lightsabers were used with two hands ussually... And you didn't have shields... And you didn't have bows. And you didn't have around 30 different spells. You just had the dark side of the force and you were happy...

[Sharpus]

minamber wrote...

Okay, I'll give you KotOR, I had forgotten there was a dueling tree in that one (and I think I remember that when you have a single melee weapon equipped, it's actually used 2-handed, but whatever).
But the others? In which of them, exactly, was it a good idea to use a single weapon if you had a better option (i.e. if you were a fighter)?

>> have you read any of my posts? I DON'T CARE IF IT'S THE BOTTOM DOWN OPTION. If you only play the best character builds there are thats fine, not every one is a power gamer though.

Notice the keyword "option" here. Most of those games didn't have weapon styles in the first place.
The only difference they made between what weapon you used was animations. They seem very important to you for some reason, because that's the only feature DA lacks when it comes to single weapon use, yet many of the games you cite here didn't actually have different attacking animations. I haven't tried a duelist build (where I might actually use a single weapon) yet, but I'll have you know that if I do, not having a proper animation for it will be the least of my concerns, since I really don't care about graphics.

>> The word is Implementation. Go get a dictionary and read, reapet until you finally understand what the word mean.

I also notice that most of them may have "implemented" single weapon style, yet except for the D&D-based games, that came at the cost of implementing dual-wield, and even sword and shield (Gothic, Riven). Now, *you* may prefer single weapon, but I think there are a lot of people who prefer to have dual-wield. The devs can't do everything, after all, and if they have to sacrifice some things, you'll just have to live with it.

>> Other developers can do this, heck Bioware could in Newerwinter they have implemented all: single, dual and 2H, but they could not implement it in DA:O? They are getting dumber along the way or what? As soon as they don't have the whole support from 3rd parties they cannot do anything properly? You have such low opinion on them?

Oh, and as a side-note, calling me stupid and saying there's something wrong with me just because I don't agree with you (and you can't understand sarcasm) does nothing to make your pet peeve about the game look more sensible, fyi.

>>I'm not calling you stupid because you don't agree with me. I'm calling you stupid becouse you wrote stupid things.  If you would give a sensible arguments then it would be ok, but you didn't. And I doubt that there is a sensible argument on why there is not implemented feature that clearly some people would like, that was in previous games by BIO, and in virtualy any other game in the genre.

Modifié par Sharpus, 13 décembre 2009 - 09:58 .

[Felix_Domestica]

Go get a dictionary and read, reapet until you finally understand what the word mean.

EPIC!



Other things you wrote were just lame... I fail to see what is stopping you from using only one sword. Its not like you're a powergamer. xP





And this part...

Other developers can do this, heck Bioware could in Newerwinter they have implemented all: single, dual and 2H, but they could not implement it in DA:O? They are getting dumber along the way or what? As soon as they don't have the whole support from 3rd parties they cannot do anything properly? You have such low opinion on them?

[OneBadAssMother]

In reality, sword/shield > 2hander/dual wield in melee combat.



2handers were only used during warfare for breaking up pike formations, fighting both infantry/cavalry and dual wield is simply just... meh in reality.



I suggest you watch a sparring match between a sword/shield fighter against other weapon styles. The advantage is very one-sided, and the shield is as deadly as a weapon as it is for defence.



So why would you waste a hand? 1-handed duels sure with all that swashbuckling fun, but give one a shield it would be cheating xD

[minamber]

Okay... Let's try to make it simple, maybe you'll understand my points then.



One need not be a powergamer to want to have an effective character, you know. The fact is, unless you're hell-bent on having some duelist-type character, using only a single weapon makes no sense and is anachronistic for the time period DA is supposed to emulate.



I know what implementation means, and by all senses of the word, single weapon style IS implemented in DA. You CAN use a weapon in one hand and nothing in your other hand. Your character won't have specific animations (not that it matters to me, though it seems to matter a lot to you), and you won't have specific talents (but most of the games you seem to like so much didn't either, so that can't be bothering you, right?).



Just because it can be done doesn't mean it will, or even should be done. Creating extra animations and another talent tree would take time (and therefore money), and Bioware decided that time was better spent on other things. Is that so hard to understand? Personally, I'd have liked to ahve more dialogue and roleplay options, but they have to stop development and actually finish the game at some point.



My points may seem stupid to you, but yours seem narrow-minded, petty and whiny to me. So what? I still don't call you those names, nor did I insult you even though your sense of entitlement annoys me. Keep the discussion (if you can call it that) civil, please.

[Clovis-]

Here's a mod for what you want!

www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php


Now leave the devs to more important things.

Modifié par Clovis-, 13 décembre 2009 - 11:17 .

[Shadesofsiknas]

I would love to see short spear and shield be an option,

[JaegerBane]

Sharpus wrote...
I also notice that most of them may have "implemented" single weapon style, yet except for the D&D-based games, that came at the cost of implementing dual-wield, and even sword and shield (Gothic, Riven). Now, *you* may prefer single weapon, but I think there are a lot of people who prefer to have dual-wield. The devs can't do everything, after all, and if they have to sacrifice some things, you'll just have to live with it.

>> Other developers can do this, heck Bioware could in Newerwinter they have implemented all: single, dual and 2H, but they could not implement it in DA:O? They are getting dumber along the way or what? As soon as they don't have the whole support from 3rd parties they cannot do anything properly? You have such low opinion on them?

I don't think that is what he was actually getting at, Sharpus. I think the point was that Bioware chose not to make the single weapon/dueling concept an actual 'line' in itself, not that there were somehow too 'dumb' to do it or had already spent brain cells developing other styles or whatever.

I believe the reasoning is mentioned in the manual - it's essentially a method that carries with it no impacts on accuracy or damage, but conversely has no improvements, and hence development of the style for the character is limited. In other words, it's meant for a character that plays it safe and goes for minimal risk/minimal reward style of combat.

[rumination888]

"1 handed weapon" is a very poor label. When a person uses a weapon "designed" for 1-handed use without a shield, they often weild that weapon with 2 hands if possible. Why do they do that? Because weilding it with 2 hands gives you better balance and leverage than having an open hand. Longswords and Katanas are the perfect example of this.