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[BatmanTurian]

Vurculac wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I have to agree that Tali is adorkable. Honestly though, out of all the chicks you can date in ME, I was only ever attracted to Femshep. I must be the weird one.

If you played as FemShep, that's be weird.

I know, I was like... well... I can't date myself. Crap, I guess it's Liara.

Well you could always headcannon yourself into the story.

I ended up dumping Liara and just going Asexual from ME2 onward. I know i missed a lot. Although I had a funny moment with Jack when I was trying to be friends with her for loyalty and triggered the line where Shep makes a pass and Jack was like " I don't swing that way " And I was thinking " I didn't even realize I was hitting on her"

[UrgentArchengel]

Iecerint wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Thank you Caligula.

He doesn't lie though, he presents a fallacy.

There's a difference.

He does lie.  EDI survives Destroy.

Blatant lies or programming oversights.

You pick. ^^~

Was that actually proven?  I've looked but never found anything.

[BatmanTurian]

Vurculac wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Vurculac wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I have to agree that Tali is adorkable. Honestly though, out of all the chicks you can date in ME, I was only ever attracted to Femshep. I must be the weird one.

If you played as FemShep, that's be weird.

I know, I was like... well... I can't date myself. Crap, I guess it's Liara.

Well you could always headcannon yourself into the story.

I ended up dumping Liara and just going Asexual from ME2 onward. I know i missed a lot. Although I had a funny moment with Jack when I was trying to be friends with her for loyalty and triggered the line where Shep makes a pass and Jack was like " I don't swing that way " And I was thinking " I didn't even realize I was hitting on her"

LOL...yes I remember encountering something like that on one of my FemShep playthroughs. Here I am chatting her up (for friendship loyalty reasons) and she says something about not being the "girls club" type. And I was like woah woah woah woah woooooah...hold on a second.

yeah, that's funny that happened to both of us. It was just one of those wierd awkward moments in the games.

[Erield]

Iecerint wrote...

He does lie.  EDI survives Destroy.

Blatant lies or programming oversights.

You pick. ^^~

I have yet to see EDI surviving Destroy.  Please point to where this is shown.  People have said it has happened, but I haven't seen anything.  I have not been able to replicate this either (I also didn't try hard, at all.) 

[covertdrizzt]

PreciousIsland wrote...

covertdrizzt wrote...

@Catamantaloedis what I just posted is the definition of theory.

I think that what we mean is that a theory is constructed using rules and techniques relevent to an inquiry into that subject matter, in the sense of the first definition.  There is theory that would be appropriate to use in order to analyze ME3:  literary critical theory.  ITers never employ it.  The conclusion that IT arrives at is arrived at through a whole lot of conjecture (whose archaic definiton is the interpretation of signs and omens, btw) and not a whole lot of method besides the vaguely positivistic compilation of a mountain of irrelevent facts.

Despite what the dictionary says (and I don't even think it would intend to convey this), conjecture and speculation about something by people who have little to no knowledge about the methods of inquiry into the subject matter probably won't produce a coherent theory.  Darwin used methods appropriate to his subject (the natural sciences) when he developed a theory of evolution.  ITers did not.

I didn't say it was a coherent theory.  I just said it was a theory.  All the crackpot theories about 9/11 have less evidence than I.T. and they are theories.  No theories have irrefutable evidence proving them fact or they wouldn't be called theories.  Indoctrination is a reoccuring theme throughout mass effect and just by using that they could make a theory based on it.  You don't have to be a scientist to make a theory.  Could they do a better job of it? Sure but, I still think it is a theory by the definition.

[Scott2998]

Erield wrote...

Iecerint wrote...

He does lie.  EDI survives Destroy.

Blatant lies or programming oversights.

You pick. ^^~

I have yet to see EDI surviving Destroy.  Please point to where this is shown.  People have said it has happened, but I haven't seen anything.  I have not been able to replicate this either (I also didn't try hard, at all.) 

If you use her in your team for the majority of the game she is one of the team mates that hops out of the wrecked Normandy

[Erield]

Vurculac wrote...

Scott2998 wrote...

If you use her in your team for the majority of the game she is one of the team mates that hops out of the wrecked Normandy

That's what I thought too....whomever you had in your group the most are the ones you see exiting the Normandy at the end.

I used her until I got Tali.  Did a run-through of Cerberus base to the end with her, picked Destroy, she didn't walk out.  I checked ~100 Destroy videos on youtube a few days ago, didn't find a single one.  Many of the videos looked like they were just re-links, but still a fairly large sample size.  Googling for it failed me, but I was also operating on only a few cylinders at the time. (There was a thread about...something, I don't even remember now.  It wasn't random, I was honestly trying to find something.)  

There was someone in the thread who said that he'd gone through a ME2 game and killed almost everyone, used EDI the entire game, had EDI and liara asquad-mates for final mission, and it was Javik and Liara who came out of the Normandy at the end.  (Conjecture, and possible lies, to be true.) 

The game has been out for over three months; if it's possible for EDI to come out of Destroy, and this is being used as evidence to support Indoc, then there should be actual video proof of it.  My failure to find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just means I think it doesn't.

[dreman9999]

Can anyone prove he is telling the truth or the ending is real?

[Erield]

dreman9999 wrote...

Can anyone prove he is telling the truth or the ending is real?

Stupid argument is stupid.   Star Child cannot be proved to be telling the truth if you assume everything is not real.  As far as I have seen, the immediate effects of the Choice cause the Crucible to act in a way that implies the Star Child was telling the truth if you assume it is real.  ie, if you pick Control, you make the Reapers go away, Destroy kills the Reapers, etc.  I have seen nothing to indicated that what it says about the effects of the Crucible are lies.  Seeing Geth walking around or EDI hopping out of the Normandy on Destroy would be a lie.

In the Control ending, supposedly Mike Gamble tweeted that the Relays are not destroyed.  There's clearly an explosion that happens on the Relays themselves, but they are not shown blowing apart as in Destroy/Synthesis.  This would mean that the Star Child lied about the Relays being destroyed regardless of your choice.

There is a level of manipulation in the way it presents the choices; this can be interpreted in different ways.  Destroy is presented as the worst, Control neutral, and Synthesis best.  You already know what that means for IT.  If you assume that it's telling the truth, and is essentially the Guardian of the Cycle, then it would naturally see Destroy as the worst option; it leaves the galaxy with nothing to prevent a tech singularity that would wipe out all organic life.  Control would essentially allow the Cycle to continue.  Synthesis somehow prevents that from happening; ieldra2 has some decent ideas on how that would be possible.

Nothing can be proved to be real except for Shepard; Shepard can only be proved real because he is the Avatar of the Player.  It is not entirely inconceivable that the entirety of the trilogy all takes place within Shepard's mind, as he stares at a padded white wall, and drools from the medication to tame his psychosis.

Edit:  Misread the argument slightly; content has been tailored to more directly apply to what was said.  Toned down the vitriol 33%.

Modifié par Erield, 16 juin 2012 - 07:05 .

[Jadebaby]

BatmanTurian wrote...

alec1898 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I have to agree that Tali is adorkable. Honestly though, out of all the chicks you can date in ME, I was only ever attracted to Femshep. I must be the weird one.

You must have been quite the narcissistic Femshep.

It got wierd, that's for sure. I have a thing for strong female protagonists so it only made sense for me to be into her.

Then you should've dated Kaidan and pretended you were Kaidan haha.

[Jadebaby]

To add some discussion, I was reading the birth of this thread all day in class. Can't sign in on the computers there though...
Was hoping it'd turn into a spiderman thread, those always gives me a good laugh.

Personally I would've given the OP an 8/10. However, he continued to defend his stance that he's not a troll. So it gets deducted to a 5/10.

Sadly, he shares the same fate as Mass Effect 3... As it stands.

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 16 juin 2012 - 07:15 .

[Asharad Hett]

@OP.... prove it

[Erield]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

To add some discussion, I was reading the birth of this thread all day in class. Can't sign in on the computers there though...
Was hoping it'd turn into a spiderman thread, those always gives me a good laugh.

Personally I would've given the OP an 8/10. However, he continued to defend his stance that he's not a troll. So it gets deducted to a 5/10.

Sadly, he shares the same fate as Mass Effect 3... As it stands.

Lol...8/10 if you discount the ending, 5/10 with it (if literal) ?

[shodiswe]

PreciousIsland wrote...

People who believe in IT want to believe in IT. They don't want to believe that someone wrote a bad ending to ME. They need some kind of canonical authority around this and they don't want that canonical authority to be weak and stupid. But it is.

So they believe in IT. IT is so stupid that you have to really want to believe it to believe it. Only stupid people believe in IT. You would have to be stupid to not see that IT would be a badly-written ending itself, thereby negating the very purpose of believing in IT in the first place.

Stupid people cannot be argued with rationally. They need to be herded around.

Not nessesarily stupid people, desperate people who want simple solutions as to why life doesn't suck. Clearly the ME3 ending was very traumatizing and thus a new religion was needed to save their souls from eternal torment.

[UltimateTobi]

Put your opinion somewhere, where the sun doesn't shine.

[asdfsdadfs]

 I personally believe that what we know as the indoctrination theory was used as a way for the majority of Bioware employees to fight back against an ending they despised. More than likely, Hudson and Walters were convinced (read: forced) to write up the ending by EA, but the majority of the team was still against it (like any sane, non-bribed human being). So, the people in charge of really MAKING the game, rather than simply overseeing its production, dropped hints wherever they could that not everything is as it seems. All of them just light enough to be ignored by Hudson, and some of them designed so as to be undetectable even if they were suspicious. This sub-theory would explain many of the shocks regarding "How did this slip through the entire development team? Why did no one question this? Why is there so much discordance between Hudson and the others, and so much silence from the majority of the team?" The hints are far too many in number to be done by two people, and too out of place to be coincidental. That's just my dollar ninety-five. Take it as you will.

[Seboist]

Aside from the obvious of bad writing, the endings are a clear attempt to wipe the slate clean for whatever MMO,Sequel or spin-off they have in mind.

Prior to the release of ME3 we had the likes of Ray Muzyka musing about the possibly of an MMO as mentioned in articles such as this one.

[EnemyD]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

D24O wrote...

What about IT are you attacking. The interpretation of the ending itself, or the belief that the ending was intended to be incomplete?

All of it. The whole thing and everyone who believes in it. I'm attacking all of them.

You nor anyone has the right to attack anyone for what they want to perceive for the ending, what makes you the most influentual speaker of this topic or anyone for that matter.  The ending was garbage plain and simple, now I'm a full believer of the IT simply because the current ending lacks closure as well as information and the IT has very compelling arguments, however everyone has the right to believe in the IT or not and shouldn't be harassed about an opinion that everyone has a right to.  I read in here that people who believe in IT are stupid.  Well since when does an opinion have any effect to my intelligence?  Now I may not work for bioware nor do I represent them in any way.  But I'm pretty sure attacking people about this is against the updated site rules & code of conduct and as a bioware community member I feel ashamed to be in a community with such negligent and inappropriate people like you being so high strung against people over a video game ending.  Also I believe in IT because let's face it, Space magic and last minute god childs with inaccuracies that make no sense is more "weak minded" than IT.

[shodiswe]

EnemyD wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

D24O wrote...

What about IT are you attacking. The interpretation of the ending itself, or the belief that the ending was intended to be incomplete?

All of it. The whole thing and everyone who believes in it. I'm attacking all of them.

You nor anyone has the right to attack anyone for what they want to perceive for the ending, what makes you the most influentual speaker of this topic or anyone for that matter.  The ending was garbage plain and simple, now I'm a full believer of the IT simply because the current ending lacks closure as well as information and the IT has very compelling arguments, however everyone has the right to believe in the IT or not and shouldn't be harassed about an opinion that everyone has a right to.  I read in here that people who believe in IT are stupid.  Well since when does an opinion have any effect to my intelligence?  Now I may not work for bioware nor do I represent them in any way.  But I'm pretty sure attacking people about this is against the updated site rules & code of conduct and as a bioware community member I feel ashamed to be in a community with such negligent and inappropriate people like you being so high strung against people over a video game ending.  Also I believe in IT because let's face it, Space magic and last minute god childs with inaccuracies that make no sense is more "weak minded" than IT.

My problem with IT is that it seems like a form of denial. The ending wasn't bad it's very deep with symbolical meaning and we really have to dig deep to find it. If we dig deep enough we will find something that proves that the ending was great with more to come. The ending isn't terrible, it's genious on a level that we have yet to discover. Bioware works in mysterious ways!

I think it's just bad and rushed writing with a lack of review. Hopefully the EC will amend some of these issues.

Im not saying you can't have your own theory and build a huge conspirace theory out of it, but I think I have the right to say what I think about the theory. Sorry if it doesn't "conform" with your beliefs.

Oterwise I would have to say, I don't agree but I can't say why since it could possibly offend you if im too truthful, therefor  I will hide it "where the sun doesn't shine". Because my opinions don't matter.

Modifié par shodiswe, 16 juin 2012 - 07:57 .

[Jadebaby]

asdfsdadfs wrote...

 I personally believe that what we know as the indoctrination theory was used as a way for the majority of Bioware employees to fight back against an ending they despised. More than likely, Hudson and Walters were convinced (read: forced) to write up the ending by EA, but the majority of the team was still against it (like any sane, non-bribed human being). So, the people in charge of really MAKING the game, rather than simply overseeing its production, dropped hints wherever they could that not everything is as it seems. All of them just light enough to be ignored by Hudson and some of them designed so as to be undetectable even if they were suspicious. This sub-theory would explain many of the shocks regarding "How did this slip through the entire development team? Why did no one question this? Why is there so much discordance between Hudson and the others, and so much silence from the majority of the team?" The hints are far too many in number to be done by two people, and too out of place to be coincidental. That's just my dollar ninety-five. Take it as you will.

Yea as much as that sounds like a good theory, it's not possible. That would only explain the 'glitches' and actual development hints that have been put in, while at the same time trying to not make them too obvious by making it also look scrappy. What it doesn't explain is the out of development stuff;
The Catalyst being the same kid from your dreams.
The fact that the Catalyst is voiced by both Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale.
The weird dream sequences and lines from squadmates like Vega saying "you hear that hum". While there is obviously no hum they had to actually get Freddie Prince Jr to say that and put it in as a different file? So why? Why get him to ask a weird ass question like that when they could've just stuck with what he usually says? Trollolol?

That's just some of the top of my head, and that Vega one really erks me if you didn't notice.

Remember, Mac Walters has a majors degree in Psychology.

[Jadebaby]

Seboist wrote...

Aside from the obvious of bad writing, the endings are a clear attempt to wipe the slate clean for whatever MMO,Sequel or spin-off they have in mind.

Prior to the release of ME3 we had the likes of Ray Muzyka musing about the possibly of an MMO as mentioned in articles such as this one.

[FERGJ]

HI OP i think you are right . (sorry for my poor english)

;...My opinion is the ending can be taken at face value with a little bit of symbolysme.(and bad writing too;...)
IT or not the ending is bad ,no climax ,no closure,character assassination,The death of shep is a joke(shooting at a tube,,jumping in a beam of light;..),To open to speculation,feel incomplete,unsatisfying,does'nt fit me universe,victory is not an achievement;...

Whatever the previous intent of bioware,a choice has been made.They can change their mind in the ec ,but i will not believe IT was Cannon at the time of the shipping of the game.

-The last message after the credits in every ending tell us ,
commander shepard has become a legend by ending the repear threat.
THERE IS NO BAD CHOICES.
(if IT become cannon ,for me it will be poor writing.there's gotta be a difference in misleadind and trolling the player.)

The breath scene :
_ The breath scene in high EMS destroy ,do not prove IT for me (If IT is true,in every ending with high EMS. there should have been one)

-The end of the game with low EMS.(does not prove IT for me)

-The nightmares:(dream interpretation: shep guilt,weakness,indoc attemps, everything possible, so prove nothing;..)

-the catalyst appearance like the nightmares too much interpretations,speculations possible,prove nothing. (being of light, repear reading mind,catalyst reading minds,subconscient of shep making sense of something beyond his primitive human sens;....

[zambot]

As much as I am "put off" by the IT zealots, let's be real here. IT started off as a really cool literary analysis/interpretation of Mass Effect. I think that's fantastic, and certainly cool to see being done to a video game (take that Ebert). But what started out as a cool interpretation somehow became this monstrosity, where people defend it as the "one truth", the thing that will "save us" from the bad ending. I don't know how this happened or why, but that's certainly when I stopped liking IT.

If you're looking to IT to rescue you from the ending in its current form, you're going to be disappointed. I realize this will cause rage for some people, others will continue to believe it even in the face of DLC that doesn't advance it. I just hope that most everyone can eventually (someday) take a step back and say, "wow, it's really cool that a few talented people took the time to piece together a well supported, symbolic interpretation of the game".