896 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

IT would certainly have not received much backlash if it remained some people's headcanon instead of being passed around as the ONE TWOOTH and trying to invalidate the choices of those who picked control or synthesis.

The ironic thing is that despite my open disdain for their theory and their motivations I agree that control and synthesis are nonsensical given the context. That's not to say destroy is much better given that there isn't proper buildup to what the crucible is and does but it supports the narrative of Shepard wanting to destroy the reapers.

[zambot]

Seboist wrote...

IT would certainly have not received much backlash if it remained some people's headcanon instead of being passed around as the ONE TWOOTH and trying to invalidate the choices of those who picked control or synthesis.

The ironic thing is that despite my open disdain for their theory and their motivations I agree that control and synthesis are nonsensical given the context. That's not to say destroy is much better given that there isn't proper buildup to what the crucible is and does but it supports the narrative of Shepard wanting to destroy the reapers.

Agree.  I think control could actually work with "clarification" and more explanation.  I cannot conceive of anything that would make synthesis make sense.  Fusing organics and synthetics into "new life" is more than just space magic.  It's space magic that causes garblety-****** that somehow achieves everlasting peace and allows Joker to bang his robot...because he's a robot sort of and she's an organic sort of and...forget it.

[Seboist]

Well, the main problem with control is that Shepard spends the entire gaming telling TIM to F off and saying that his scheme is crazy and raving about how s/he's going destroy the reapers but then makes a complete reversal at the end? This would be akin to Shepard all of sudden deciding to let the Reapers through the citadel at the end of ME1 after killing Saren.

Then there's the issue of not being able to control the Geth but somehow one guy is able to control the machine gods themselves with no issue? Not to mention the other plots of not being able to control the Thorian or the Rachni.

Control is nice in theory but the execution is beyond atrocious. Still, I was able to get the closest to an ideal ending I ever could have gotten by allowing TIM to finish off Anderson and then picking it.

[EnemyD]

shodiswe wrote...

EnemyD wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

D24O wrote...

What about IT are you attacking. The interpretation of the ending itself, or the belief that the ending was intended to be incomplete?

All of it. The whole thing and everyone who believes in it. I'm attacking all of them.

You nor anyone has the right to attack anyone for what they want to perceive for the ending, what makes you the most influentual speaker of this topic or anyone for that matter.  The ending was garbage plain and simple, now I'm a full believer of the IT simply because the current ending lacks closure as well as information and the IT has very compelling arguments, however everyone has the right to believe in the IT or not and shouldn't be harassed about an opinion that everyone has a right to.  I read in here that people who believe in IT are stupid.  Well since when does an opinion have any effect to my intelligence?  Now I may not work for bioware nor do I represent them in any way.  But I'm pretty sure attacking people about this is against the updated site rules & code of conduct and as a bioware community member I feel ashamed to be in a community with such negligent and inappropriate people like you being so high strung against people over a video game ending.  Also I believe in IT because let's face it, Space magic and last minute god childs with inaccuracies that make no sense is more "weak minded" than IT.

My problem with IT is that it seems like a form of denial. The ending wasn't bad it's very deep with symbolical meaning and we really have to dig deep to find it. If we dig deep enough we will find something that proves that the ending was great with more to come. The ending isn't terrible, it's genious on a level that we have yet to discover. Bioware works in mysterious ways!

I think it's just bad and rushed writing with a lack of review. Hopefully the EC will amend some of these issues.

Im not saying you can't have your own theory and build a huge conspirace theory out of it, but I think I have the right to say what I think about the theory. Sorry if it doesn't "conform" with your beliefs.

Oterwise I would have to say, I don't agree but I can't say why since it could possibly offend you if im too truthful, therefor  I will hide it "where the sun doesn't shine". Because my opinions don't matter.

I stated my opinion into this topic and I believe you have the right to an opinion but you missed the message in my post.  Catamantaloedis has a right to an opinion but he has no right to attack people over their belief in IT, adding onto that.  It was a bad ending, because of lack of information and closure with alot of plot holes.  IT exists to perceive an understanding into the ending through research and educational inquiries into this theory and to deny a theory this detailed is false, IT doesn't exist as a form of denial rather it's to find meaning and understanding of the ending with possibilities to look into.  IT is an example of a passionate group of people who want to find meaning in this topic by looking into small details and see if there are clues to the truth hidden in the trilogy storyline, an interlocked storyline with small clues that act as puzzle pieces to form a bigger picture.  That's how a good plot that is linked to a trilogy works and I think some of you missed that, as much as you and others dislike the IT I haven't heard a theory to counter it better because all I see instead is bitter neglect and denial on the subject.  It all sounds like hate and IT needs to be viewed and examined thoroughly with an open mind rather than shutting yourselves down to the possibility that it all may or may not be true to the integral plot.  Bioware has niether confirmed or denied the IT and they won't comment about it due to spoiling the Extended Cut and that is proof that IT could be true or be false and it depends on Bioware.  You can have a symbolic tone in the ending but that's not the point of a Mass Effect Ending, while symbolic the ending has to make sense and the current ending makes none.  Some good links to check out with an open mind:

Kotaku Post: http://kotaku.com/58...rination-theory
Forbes Post: http://www.forbes.co...veryones-heads/
Escapist Magazine Post: http://www.escapistm...oilers-probably
Another Escapist Magazine: http://www.escapistm...theory-analysis
ACAVYOS's IT Video:
Angry Joe's Input on IT:

EDIT: Also it's possible the entire IT could be true for half of the Extended Cut but who knows that's just a thought that came to me.

Modifié par EnemyD, 16 juin 2012 - 08:44 .

[zambot]

Seboist wrote...

Well, the main problem with control is that Shepard spends the entire gaming telling TIM to F off and saying that his scheme is crazy and raving about how s/he's going destroy the reapers but then makes a complete reversal at the end? This would be akin to Shepard all of sudden deciding to let the Reapers through the citadel at the end of ME1 after killing Saren.

Then there's the issue of not being able to control the Geth but somehow one guy is able to control the machine gods themselves with no issue? Not to mention the other plots of not being able to control the Thorian or the Rachni.

Control is nice in theory but the execution is beyond atrocious. Still, I was able to get the closest to an ideal ending I ever could have gotten by allowing TIM to finish off Anderson and then picking it.

Again I agree.  This all gets back to the problem that Bioware tries to explain the most important choice in the game with a new character, whom Shep has no reason to trust, in about 5 minutes.  I can conceive of a plot where Shep does actually gain control over the reapers, but it certainly doesn't involve a god kid telling Shep that TIM was right all along then suiciding on a couple of electrodes.  da fuq?

[Seboist]

What they should have done is remove the nonsensical Cerberus superpower and "lol indoctrination" * of TIM and be able to say to him during Mars "sounds good, let's do it" with him responding with "we'll be in touch". Of course this would only be possible if the CB was kept.

Another thing they should have done is have keeping David in Overlord and selling of Legion be the key variables for a "control the Geth" outcome which would made control more credible.

* I'd remove "lol indoctrination" with Udina,the Rachni and Geth as well.

[Blacklash93]

Seboist wrote...

Well, the main problem with control is that Shepard spends the entire gaming telling TIM to F off and saying that his scheme is crazy and raving about how s/he's going destroy the reapers but then makes a complete reversal at the end? This would be akin to Shepard all of sudden deciding to let the Reapers through the citadel at the end of ME1 after killing Saren.

Then there's the issue of not being able to control the Geth but somehow one guy is able to control the machine gods themselves with no issue? Not to mention the other plots of not being able to control the Thorian or the Rachni.

Control is nice in theory but the execution is beyond atrocious. Still, I was able to get the closest to an ideal ending I ever could have gotten by allowing TIM to finish off Anderson and then picking it.

Shepard believed it was impossible to control the Reapers until meeting the Catalyst and really it seemed s/he wanted to try everything to sway TIM from his skewed priorities and goals in the war... especially when it was revealed he was indoctrinated. And incentive is given to choose Control with the Catalyst explaining that the Reapers are fending off an even worse fate for the galaxy; a shallow explanation from a seemingly untrustworthy person but one nonetheless. And killing the Geth doesn't sound like a very appealing option with Destroy either.

And Controlling the Reapers isn't really comparable to controlling the Geth or Rachni. The Catalyst was basically handing the keys to you on a silver platter.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 16 juin 2012 - 09:06 .

[Nightwriter]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Finally, realize the delusion of your ways and the fallacy of the Indoctrination Delusion and reject is as it is and as it always has been--the fan fiction of a mentally disturbed 10 year old child which has reached the very levels of religion.

It is the fan fiction of a collection of loyal fans who are understandably horrified by the conclusion of the series and who prefer creative interpretation over despair.

[Blacklash93]

What should have been done with Cerberus is that they should have been a supporting faction helping out in the war. None of the contrived army crap or TIM being an idiot to mess with Reaper tech again.

That way we could have gotten better characterization of the Reapers and not have Cerberus hog the spotlight. They got their limelight in ME2.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 16 juin 2012 - 09:14 .

[EnemyD]

Nightwriter wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Finally, realize the delusion of your ways and the fallacy of the Indoctrination Delusion and reject is as it is and as it always has been--the fan fiction of a mentally disturbed 10 year old child which has reached the very levels of religion.

It is the fan fiction of a collection of loyal fans who are understandably horrified by the conclusion of the series and who prefer creative interpretation over despair.

Is it me or does he sound like a religious preacher looking through a dictionary for words to put in his posts and repeats it?

[Reorte]

Erield wrote...

There was someone in the thread who said that he'd gone through a ME2 game and killed almost everyone, used EDI the entire game, had EDI and liara asquad-mates for final mission, and it was Javik and Liara who came out of the Normandy at the end.  (Conjecture, and possible lies, to be true.)

I think that Javik is bugged in some way in that it's very hard to not have him step off at the end. I only took him on a couple of missions and I still got my LI and Javik.

[Seboist]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Shepard believed it was impossible to control the Reapers until meeting the Catalyst and really it seemed s/he wanted to try everything to sway TIM from his skewed priorities and goals in the war... especially when it was revealed he was indoctrinated. And incentive is given to choose Control with the Catalyst explaining that the Reapers are fending off an even worse fate for the galaxy; a shallow explanation from a seemingly untrustworthy person but one nonetheless. And killing the Geth doesn't sound like a very appealing option with Destroy either.

And Controlling the Reapers isn't really comparable to controlling the Geth or Rachni. The Catalyst was basically handing the keys to you on a silver platter.

Thing is, we have no idea what the crucible is, how it works or what it's supposed to even do. Even the setup for destroy is bad because of this. The crucible does these things... because we're told it does.

Frankly I'm surprised none of the characters wonders if the crucible is a little too good to be true. This thing conveniently shows up right when the Reapers are inside the gates and located right under their noses and is easy to decipher without needing a Prothean Cipher? Not only that but the Reapers never zero knowledge about it after all this time? Shep and co are a little too eager to lend credence to this thing after knowing the Citadel and Relay network were a Reaper trap.

This plot is... just flat out broken.

[Erield]

Reorte wrote...

Erield wrote...

There was someone in the thread who said that he'd gone through a ME2 game and killed almost everyone, used EDI the entire game, had EDI and liara asquad-mates for final mission, and it was Javik and Liara who came out of the Normandy at the end.  (Conjecture, and possible lies, to be true.)

I think that Javik is bugged in some way in that it's very hard to not have him step off at the end. I only took him on a couple of missions and I still got my LI and Javik.

I may have to do a sprint through just to see for myself.  It won't mean anything to anyone else if I get nothing, since there would be no reasonable way to verify I'm telling the truth.  It would put my own mind at ease, though.

Do you need to have EMS to have squaddies walk off of the Normandy?  Or will Lowest EMS do it too?

[Jadebaby]

@ EnemyD..

You forgot this beauty...

http://www.kotaku.co...five-years-ago/

Edit: @Erield yes 'if literal' those were the words I was looking for..

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 16 juin 2012 - 09:26 .

[Seboist]

Blacklash93 wrote...

What should have been done with Cerberus is that they should have been a supporting faction helping out in the war. None of the contrived army crap or TIM being an idiot to mess with Reaper tech again.

That way we could have gotten better characterization of the Reapers and not have Cerberus hog the spotlight. They got their limelight in ME2.

It's good to see you've become a blood brother in spirit my son.

Cerberus was overrepresented in the EU as well.

[Blacklash93]

Seboist wrote...
Thing is, we have no idea what the crucible is, how it works or what it's supposed to even do. Even the setup for destroy is bad because of this. The crucible does these things... because we're told it does.

Frankly I'm surprised none of the characters wonders if the crucible is a little too good to be true. This thing conveniently shows up right when the Reapers are inside the gates and located right under their noses and is easy to decipher without needing a Prothean Cipher? Not only that but the Reapers never zero knowledge about it after all this time? Shep and co are a little too eager to lend credence to this thing after knowing the Citadel and Relay network were a Reaper trap.

This plot is... just flat out broken.

Shepard has nothing to go on how the Crucible worked other than the Catalyst's word. The fact that the people working on it had no idea what it did is contrived, but there you go.

Well the Reapers seem too numerous and powerful to stop so the Crucible is more of a "Why not?" sort of thing. The things about it that are very convinient about it that you stated are just further contrivances and oversights. Obviously it's nothing the writers bothered to notice. The funny thing about the Crucible is that the Reapers seemed to know it was being developed during the war and perhaps even where it was, but never did anything about it.

The main plot is riddled with more holes than a large, thin sheet of paper that just got inflicted with the extended wrath of an assualt rifle. That's generally accepted. And to think this could have been avoided if the devs thought beyond ME2 and foreshadowed and planned ahead of time instead of opting for a filler installment. ME2 should have been about preparing for the Reapers and not fighting off their puppet-goons to save the day.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 16 juin 2012 - 09:38 .

[Vox Draco]

EnemyD wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Finally, realize the delusion of your ways and the fallacy of the Indoctrination Delusion and reject is as it is and as it always has been--the fan fiction of a mentally disturbed 10 year old child which has reached the very levels of religion.

It is the fan fiction of a collection of loyal fans who are understandably horrified by the conclusion of the series and who prefer creative interpretation over despair.

Is it me or does he sound like a religious preacher looking through a dictionary for words to put in his posts and repeats it?

No, it is quite funny actually that many Anti-ITlers begin to behave like being on a crusade while telling everybody that It-lers are cultists and "religiously blinded"

"And I tell you that the gates of HELL will devour YOU and YOUR soul if you do not REJECT the FALSE belief that is Indoctrination Theory! It is written, and BADLY written, in the GREAT BOOK of MASS EFFECT 3 that nothing like this EVER happened, can happen or ever will happen! There is only ONE TRUTH! My truth! Stop speculating about the FALSE endings and abandon hope, for there is none to be found! Only in MY message you will find peace, clarification and closure!

Though shalt not have any endings beside what I say is true! Though shalt not go astray from the path of literally and nonsensical endings! I am the TRUE prohpet of the END TIMES! I AM YOUR SALVATION!"

Hey, at least threads like these amuse me...after three months that's a start in the right direction, I guess...*sigh* hope it is summer soon, and EC is out, and EVERYONE is quieter...Ah...what a delusional thought...it will get worse, I fear...no matter how the outcome... 

[Dendio1]

IT is a great fan created headcanon. It is not canon. the devs are releasing clarification, not priority,earth part 2 shepards awakening.

[Jadebaby]

Vox Draco wrote...

EnemyD wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Finally, realize the delusion of your ways and the fallacy of the Indoctrination Delusion and reject is as it is and as it always has been--the fan fiction of a mentally disturbed 10 year old child which has reached the very levels of religion.

It is the fan fiction of a collection of loyal fans who are understandably horrified by the conclusion of the series and who prefer creative interpretation over despair.

Is it me or does he sound like a religious preacher looking through a dictionary for words to put in his posts and repeats it?

No, it is quite funny actually that many Anti-ITlers begin to behave like being on a crusade while telling everybody that It-lers are cultists and "religiously blinded"

"And I tell you that the gates of HELL will devour YOU and YOUR soul if you do not REJECT the FALSE belief that is Indoctrination Theory! It is written, and BADLY written, in the GREAT BOOK of MASS EFFECT 3 that nothing like this EVER happened, can happen or ever will happen! There is only ONE TRUTH! My truth! Stop speculating about the FALSE endings and abandon hope, for there is none to be found! Only in MY message you will find peace, clarification and closure!

Though shalt not have any endings beside what I say is true! Though shalt not go astray from the path of literally and nonsensical endings! I am the TRUE prohpet of the END TIMES! I AM YOUR SALVATION!"

Hey, at least threads like these amuse me...after three months that's a start in the right direction, I guess...*sigh* hope it is summer soon, and EC is out, and EVERYONE is quieter...Ah...what a delusional thought...it will get worse, I fear...no matter how the outcome... 

That's humankind for you, there are extremists in all walks of life.
On one hand you have the IT extremists (The only truth) while on the other you have people like the OP (I'm right, you're stupid).
The fact is, both these views are stupid because they are both wrong. Only one of them will be correct and that will only be proved once Bioware release EC DLC. Until then it's all  and .

[ThinkIntegral]

Thanks for the post OP

[Jadebaby]

Dendio1 wrote...

IT is a great fan created headcanon. It is not canon. the devs are releasing clarification, not priority,earth part 2 shepards awakening.

See, it's posts like this that I find amusing.

[Seboist]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Shepard has nothing to go on how the Crucible worked other than the Catalyst's word. The fact that the people working on it had no idea what it did is contrived, but there you go.

Well the Reapers seem too numerous and powerful to stop so the Crucible is more of a "Why not?" sort of thing. The things about it that are very convinient about it that you stated are just further contrivances and oversights. Obviously it's nothing the writers bothered to notice. The funny thing about the Crucible is that the Reapers seemed to know it was being developed during the war and perhaps even where it was, but never did anything about it.

The main plot is riddled with more holes than a large, thin sheet of paper that just got inflicted with the extended wrath of an assualt rifle. That's generally accepted. And to think this could have been avoided if the devs thought beyond ME2 and foreshadowed and planned ahead of time instead of opting for a filler installment. ME2 should have been about preparing for the Reapers and not fighting off their puppet-goons to save the day.

Yes, ME2 should have been about preparing for war against the Reapers(no "ah yes reapers" stupidity) with the reaper proxies trying to soften the galaxy up for their evential arrival by sowing division amongst the council races(human abductions could factor into this) and trying to provoke a war against the Terminus.

With Cerberus, I would have had them become co-belligerents with the Council who would have agreed to turn a blind eye to them in exchange for their being able to act against the reaper proxies due to them being preoccupied with preparing for war against the Reapers and not wanting to risk political instability.

Shepard would then be assigned by the Council to work with them for the official reason of aiding them against the proxies but secretly to spy on them and undermine any non-mission critical activities of theirs. Now, whether Shepard decides to go through with the council's plan or fully endorse Cerberus would be up to the player.

All this would have respected contuniuity and player choice.

[SackofCat]

Answer belligerence with belligerence. That'll teach em'.

[ThinkIntegral]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

IT is a great fan created headcanon. It is not canon. the devs are releasing clarification, not priority,earth part 2 shepards awakening.

See, it's posts like this that I find amusing.

And it's these posts like this I find amusing.