896 réponses à ce sujet

[AsheraII]

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

the only faster way is to use rapid indoctrination, and that turns you into a gibering animal... the reapers dont want that.

Not nececerally. Dr. Kenson, Saren, Grayson, Ba****a, Shiala, the Cerberus agents on the delerict reaper... Those people on that mission that I don't remember it's name... (the DLC of ME2, the reaper artifact that Shepard brought to the Normandy) Fire something...

Interesting that you mention Shiala. Since there are no records of her, or any of the others who were under the influence of Species 37 on Feros, to have turned against the alliance and support the Reapers. It seems the Thorian somehow negated the indoctrination? And why didn't the reapers simply indoctrinate the Thorian? Maybe the Thorian was resistant?
Just some proof that Reaper Indoctrination is not an infinite power, and that Reaper Indoctrination can even be stopped or cured.

Shepard being immune or highly resistant to indoctrination is not far fetched, it can't even be dismissed, since it's mentioned several times in the games. A highly resistant Shepard would mean that Shepard could get in the vicinity of a Reaper without being indoctrinated, or it taking longer for any effects to go through. It could even result in the indoctrination effects being different from those experienced by other victims, resulting in an occasional bad dream, but without any control.

TIM also makes a fine example of this same effect: a highly resistant personality, allowing TIM to work against the Reapers for a long time, simply because more of his own personality was left intact because he was more resistant than expected. It would be the Reapers' greatest threat: a species with the potential to become resistant to their indoctrination. Why else do you think they wanted Shepard so badly for some samples throughout ME2?
Not to pilot that big human reaper. It was only because of Shepards' mental resilience, that was what made Shepard unique and dangerous.

[Ageless Face]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

TIM and Saren were sleeper agents. This is what the Reapers are trying to do to Shepard. To strike that moral defeat as I spoke about.
Grayson was indoctrinated by TIM, that is irrelevant.

 

Right, but TIM and Saren got indoctrinated quite quickly (TIM had indoctrination inside him, for a long time, I know, but he was only truly indoctrinated when he started to play with the reaper tech). It could have been also quick for Shepard if the reapers really wanted to indoc Shepard. There ARE ways to do so. 

 
But they did just enough to get inside Shepard's head. Whether the dream are indoctrination or not, Shepard is only having them because of the Reapers, that's suspicious in itself. However as IT presents itself, the only way to become indoctrinated in the sense you are talking about is to choose control/synthesis. Or in other words, give in to Reaper logic.

What also could Shepard dream about aside from reapers? That is on Shepard's mind constently, the reapers, Earth, all the death the srrounds him/her. All the death that was caused because of the reapers. The dreams were not about the repaers. It was about death. 

And just for the record, I chose control and I don't agree with the catalyst's logic. I just think the choice is right. It has nothing to do with them. Even if it was, destroy also means to listen to the catalyst when he says that the tube will kill the reapers. The only true way to get out of indoc is suicide.

[dreman9999]

SauliusL wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

because they want him indoctrinated. that how the reapers work.

trun a powerfull leader to your side. subtly.  

they do this again and again. never do they kidnap powerfull leaders. they indoctrinat them.

They could have done it faster and they didn't. Hell, the reaper artifact on Arrival was sure wasn't rapid. Otherwise they will have no use for Shepard.

Did they ever had someone like Shepard to fight with? If they did, do we know for certain they didn't try and kidnaap him/her? I don't think so. Unless they didn't want Shepard indoc, of course.... Or that they are very stupid. I believe the former.

if you kindapp the leader your tryin to indoctrinate then, how can you use that leader to pacify the populace when its obviouse this is a reaper trapp? 

But the reaper were trying to kidnap Shepard. That was ME2.

He didn't have the galaxy's fleet then. Tactics change Even for super AI

Have yet to notice the reason why they stop going after Shepard is because they already exposed him to indocrtiantion waves and subtle indoctriation him. Tactics do change, now for the reaper is about finalizing the indoctriation

[llbountyhunter]

HagarIshay wrote...


What also could Shepard dream about aside from reapers? That is on Shepard's mind constently, the reapers, Earth, all the death the srrounds him/her. All the death that was caused because of the reapers. The dreams were not about the repaers. It was about death. 

And just for the record, I chose control and I don't agree with the catalyst's logic. I just think the choice is right. It has nothing to do with them. Even if it was, destroy also means to listen to the catalyst when he says that the tube will kill the reapers. The only true way to get out of indoc is suicide.

explained your first point in another post...  not ignoring it. 

1. well the dreams arent direclty about the reapers... there about a kid with some freaky reaper noises in the background... EVERY single time. thats not normal dreaming.

and remember casey (or someone else on the team...not sure who) has a degree in phycology so they know this.

2.shepard isnt indoc at this point no need for suicide yet. and the destroy option was planted by shepard not the reapers.

thats why reaperbeiber paints it in bad light. its the only choice were the threat will supposedly continue. 

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 16 juin 2012 - 06:56 .

[SauliusL]

HagarIshay wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

TIM and Saren were sleeper agents. This is what the Reapers are trying to do to Shepard. To strike that moral defeat as I spoke about.
Grayson was indoctrinated by TIM, that is irrelevant.

 

Right, but TIM and Saren got indoctrinated quite quickly (TIM had indoctrination inside him, for a long time, I know, but he was only truly indoctrinated when he started to play with the reaper tech). It could have been also quick for Shepard if the reapers really wanted to indoc Shepard. There ARE ways to do so. 

 
But they did just enough to get inside Shepard's head. Whether the dream are indoctrination or not, Shepard is only having them because of the Reapers, that's suspicious in itself. However as IT presents itself, the only way to become indoctrinated in the sense you are talking about is to choose control/synthesis. Or in other words, give in to Reaper logic.

What also could Shepard dream about aside from reapers? That is on Shepard's mind constently, the reapers, Earth, all the death the srrounds him/her. All the death that was caused because of the reapers. The dreams were not about the repaers. It was about death. 

And just for the record, I chose control and I don't agree with the catalyst's logic. I just think the choice is right. It has nothing to do with them. Even if it was, destroy also means to listen to the catalyst when he says that the tube will kill the reapers. The only true way to get out of indoc is suicide.

I am sorry, my friend, but you really dont fully inderstand the IT.
If IT is true - catalyst lies about ALL three choices. He says what needs to be said that you would believe and more likely choose what he needs.  Choosing destroy - doesn't destroy the reapers, like he says. We don't know yet what it destroys - maybe the connection with Harbinger, maybe it shuts down the shields of the reapers for the fleet to attack. We just don't know yet.
And suicide is the only way out of full indoctrination, not from the process. Don't you understand the difference?

Modifié par SauliusL, 16 juin 2012 - 06:51 .

[Jadebaby]

HagarIshay wrote...

Right, but TIM and Saren got indoctrinated quite quickly (TIM had indoctrination inside him, for a long time, I know, but he was only truly indoctrinated when he started to play with the reaper tech). It could have been also quick for Shepard if the reapers really wanted to indoc Shepard. There ARE ways to do so.

So then Shepard (from contact with the artifact) has indoctrination dormant inside him/her the same way TIM had Indoctrination inside him. TIM and Saren both weren't 'completely' indoctrinated until they start messing with Reaper tech and in Saren's case, implants. However, even that is subjective because through using paragon/renegade choices you can talk them into shooting themselves, which shows their inner resolve can still be manipulated.

What also could Shepard dream about aside from reapers? That is on Shepard's mind constently, the reapers, Earth, all the death the srrounds him/her. All the death that was caused because of the reapers. The dreams were not about the repaers. It was about death. 

You're definitely not wrong, but Amanda Kenson was indoctrinated in the same way. She started to feel she was 'doing something terrible' by destryong the relays and killing hundreds of thousands of people. Obviously it was also because she spent too much time around the object (silly lady) but the indoctrination manifested in her by playing on her morale, and she became a victim.

And just for the record, I chose control and I don't agree with the catalyst's logic. I just think the choice is right. It has nothing to do with them. Even if it was, destroy also means to listen to the catalyst when he says that the tube will kill the reapers.

But to think you can actually control a trillion year old race because the catalyst says so is buying into his logic. The whole "You can control us because you weren't already indoctrinated like TIM was" logic.
EDIT: Also this;

SauliusL wrote...
Choosing destroy - doesn't destroy the reapers, like he says

Forgot to add that in. Thanks SauliusL!

The only true way to get out of indoc is suicide.

In cases where the indoctrination has evolved to the point where you've been implanted or severely effected, you are correct. Re: TIM & Saren.

2nd EDIT: I should really just say Saren at the end there, because according to IT, TIM never committed suicide. Just so I'm not blurring any lines and confusing people.

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 16 juin 2012 - 06:58 .

[shodiswe]

AsheraII wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

the only faster way is to use rapid indoctrination, and that turns you into a gibering animal... the reapers dont want that.

Not nececerally. Dr. Kenson, Saren, Grayson, Ba****a, Shiala, the Cerberus agents on the delerict reaper... Those people on that mission that I don't remember it's name... (the DLC of ME2, the reaper artifact that Shepard brought to the Normandy) Fire something...

Interesting that you mention Shiala. Since there are no records of her, or any of the others who were under the influence of Species 37 on Feros, to have turned against the alliance and support the Reapers. It seems the Thorian somehow negated the indoctrination? And why didn't the reapers simply indoctrinate the Thorian? Maybe the Thorian was resistant?
Just some proof that Reaper Indoctrination is not an infinite power, and that Reaper Indoctrination can even be stopped or cured.

Shepard being immune or highly resistant to indoctrination is not far fetched, it can't even be dismissed, since it's mentioned several times in the games. A highly resistant Shepard would mean that Shepard could get in the vicinity of a Reaper without being indoctrinated, or it taking longer for any effects to go through. It could even result in the indoctrination effects being different from those experienced by other victims, resulting in an occasional bad dream, but without any control.

TIM also makes a fine example of this same effect: a highly resistant personality, allowing TIM to work against the Reapers for a long time, simply because more of his own personality was left intact because he was more resistant than expected. It would be the Reapers' greatest threat: a species with the potential to become resistant to their indoctrination. Why else do you think they wanted Shepard so badly for some samples throughout ME2?
Not to pilot that big human reaper. It was only because of Shepards' mental resilience, that was what made Shepard unique and dangerous.

According to the letter from Shiala she could still hear the reapers and their orders but the bond with the mind of the other colonists was stronger and drowned out the reapers voices.
In theory a civilization that's perpetualy linked together would be immune to indoctrination, the reapers signals would get drowned by the comboned sentience of the opposing civilization.
Such a civilization would be impossible to indoctrinate they would have to bomb them from orbit or kill them the slwo way. Also a civilization like that woudl be able to resist the reapers very efficiently sicne they would know the reapers every move, the reapers would be unable to surprise them or sabotage their communications.

It's a wonder no such civilization had evolved... Or maybe it did but they got bombed from space and lacked the nessesary spacenaval force to fight the reapers. Secondly the relays would likely have been locked down if it was prior to the proteans citadel sabotage.

In a way it would be the Proteans that beat the reapers since they broke their cycle with the citadel sabotage and relay control override. The next cycle just ended it.  The crucible... who knows.. either it was a reaper failsafe or a project by every previous civilization but the reapers never feared it because they knew the reapers could never deploy it if they shut down the relays. I'm guessing BW will give us more... maybe.. Because all we can do is speculate on all the weird things hapening and why the crucible never worked and why the reapers never cared about it.
It's possible it was never a threat to them as long as they coudl shut down the relays. though whatever BW says is the truth.. we will see. probably won't be there though.

[Ageless Face]

llbountyhunter wrote...


explained your first point in another post...  not ignoring it. 

1. well the dreams are direclty about the reapers... there about a kid with some freaky reaper noises in the background... EVERY single time. thats not normal dreaming.

and remember casey (or someone else on the team...not sure who) has a degree in phycology so they know this.

2.shepard isnt indoc at this point no need for suicide yet. and the control option was planted by shepard not the reapers.

thats why reaperbeiber paints it in bad light. its the only choice were the threat will supposedly continue. 

I'm sorry. I can't see hundreds of posts in a minute. Or answer them all. <_<

1. Why isn't it? Shepard heard those noises on Earth, it's not like s/he never heard them before dreaming. 

It's very interesting that Casey had it. I might need this knowlage fo rthe future.

2. I meant the only way out of indoctrination is by suicide. Was anyone that was planted indoc ever made it out (aside from Shiala, that had the thorian.... doing something to her)? All killed themselves, or GOT killed.

Control is painted as "You will die". Some people don't want their Shepards to die... And even if destroy is painted in bad light, that doesn't mean anything. He is still giving Shepard the option. He might have less use for someone who wants the reapers destroyed, not praticle. But still better than nothing (Not my theory, all credits go for Lord Goose).

[shodiswe]

Anyway congrats Catamando...OP! for creating a sucessful thread with speculations and name calling. Very entertaining. Thank you.

[Ageless Face]

SauliusL wrote...

I am sorry, my friend, but you really dont fully inderstand the IT.
If IT is true - catalyst lies about ALL three choices. He says what needs to be said that you would believe and more likely choose what he needs.  Choosing destroy - doesn't destroy the reapers, like he says. We don't know yet what it destroys - maybe the connection with Harbinger, maybe it shuts down the shields of the reapers for the fleet to attack. We just don't know yet.
And suicide is the only way out of full indoctrination, not from the process. Don't you understand the difference?

The catalyst can still use a paranoide Shepard, just s/he will not be as useful as one that wants to control or synthesise. Still the catalyst tells us about the destroy option, doesn't he? 

Did anyone in the process of indoc ever made it out? 

Even if ******'s pssoble, not choosing any of the choices is also a way out, no? Not buy the catalyst's choices as reliable. Any of them.  

[Foulpancake]

"IT is dumb and everyone who believes it is dumb and people who support it are dumb and not agreeing with me is dumb and not seeing i'm obviously always correct is dumb"

Seriously are listening to yourself? Or is that all you can hear is the glory of your awesomeness? Are you a rocket scientist brain surgeon? Wait i think you forgot fries with that fat lady's burger, go get her some fries

[jijeebo]

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

I'm sure Shepard sleeps more times than we see accross the duration of ME3.

And the first dream is before the turian moon mission, Mr House said and I confirmed it by looking it up.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Priority:_Palaven

OK then...The first dream still happens after the fall of earth anyway.

Which means that the literal "it's actually just a dream" interpretation makes perfect sense... Because all that death and destruction, including that poor wee boy (who represents all the people Shepard couldn't save), is fresh in Shepard mind and he's realising what's at stake now that the reapers are actually here.


See, being a literalist ain't so bad. ;)

Then where the dreams when everyone else die. Shepard still was near reapers before Mars, so them influecing his dream still sticks. And Shepard still face the reapers forces before the final mission, so it still stick theat the reaper MAYBE INFLUECING HIS DREAM.

Maaaaybe... Maybe not.

Don't you just love speculations?

[BatmanTurian]

Read the OP in a televangelist's voice and you'll realize how ridiculous he sounds. He says IT is a religion, but he sounds like he's telling us that the devil is seducing us into believing the IT.
He sounds like a religious leader. Sorry, but it's true. It completely undermines everything he has to say. Seboist just sounds like a sycophant choir boy in this metaphor.

[llbountyhunter]

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...


explained your first point in another post...  not ignoring it. 

1. well the dreams are direclty about the reapers... there about a kid with some freaky reaper noises in the background... EVERY single time. thats not normal dreaming.

and remember casey (or someone else on the team...not sure who) has a degree in phycology so they know this.

2.shepard isnt indoc at this point no need for suicide yet. and the control option was planted by shepard not the reapers.

thats why reaperbeiber paints it in bad light. its the only choice were the threat will supposedly continue. 

I'm sorry. I can't see hundreds of posts in a minute. Or answer them all. <_<

1. Why isn't it? Shepard heard those noises on Earth, it's not like s/he never heard them before dreaming. 

It's very interesting that Casey had it. I might need this knowlage fo rthe future.

2. I meant the only way out of indoctrination is by suicide. Was anyone that was planted indoc ever made it out (aside from Shiala, that had the thorian.... doing something to her)? All killed themselves, or GOT killed.

Control is painted as "You will die". Some people don't want their Shepards to die... And even if destroy is painted in bad light, that doesn't mean anything. He is still giving Shepard the option. He might have less use for someone who wants the reapers destroyed, not praticle. But still better than nothing (Not my theory, all credits go for Lord Goose).

I meant the destroy option was planted by shepard. 

and, I already proved lord goose wrong. destroy is the only option were you DONT win. according to the catalyst your children will create synthetic and the entire problem will continue, even worse this time because the nice little reapers arent going to be here next time around, to put an end to all the bad, bad, geth and AIs.

oddly enough only control and synthesis, suppoedly put a final clamp on the issue. 

[llbountyhunter]

HagarIshay wrote...

SauliusL wrote...

I am sorry, my friend, but you really dont fully inderstand the IT.
If IT is true - catalyst lies about ALL three choices. He says what needs to be said that you would believe and more likely choose what he needs.  Choosing destroy - doesn't destroy the reapers, like he says. We don't know yet what it destroys - maybe the connection with Harbinger, maybe it shuts down the shields of the reapers for the fleet to attack. We just don't know yet.
And suicide is the only way out of full indoctrination, not from the process. Don't you understand the difference?

The catalyst can still use a paranoide Shepard, just s/he will not be as useful as one that wants to control or synthesise. Still the catalyst tells us about the destroy option, doesn't he? 

Did anyone in the process of indoc ever made it out? 

Even if ******'s pssoble, not choosing any of the choices is also a way out, no? Not buy the catalyst's choices as reliable. Any of them.  

no, choosing shepards own choice (destroy) and rejecting the reaper choices is the only way out of an indoctrination  attempt.

[BatmanTurian]

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

because they want him indoctrinated. that how the reapers work.

trun a powerfull leader to your side. subtly.  

they do this again and again. never do they kidnap powerfull leaders. they indoctrinat them.

They could have done it faster and they didn't. Hell, the reaper artifact on Arrival was sure wasn't rapid. Otherwise they will have no use for Shepard.

Did they ever had someone like Shepard to fight with? If they did, do we know for certain they didn't try and kidnaap him/her? I don't think so. Unless they didn't want Shepard indoc, of course.... Or that they are very stupid. I believe the former.

Indoctrinating faster turns the subject into a husk and indoctrinating slower produces a perfect sleeper agent with their mental facilities intact. Or did you even read or listen to the codex?

[SauliusL]

HagarIshay wrote...

SauliusL wrote...

I am sorry, my friend, but you really dont fully inderstand the IT.
If IT is true - catalyst lies about ALL three choices. He says what needs to be said that you would believe and more likely choose what he needs.  Choosing destroy - doesn't destroy the reapers, like he says. We don't know yet what it destroys - maybe the connection with Harbinger, maybe it shuts down the shields of the reapers for the fleet to attack. We just don't know yet.
And suicide is the only way out of full indoctrination, not from the process. Don't you understand the difference?

The catalyst can still use a paranoide Shepard, just s/he will not be as useful as one that wants to control or synthesise. Still the catalyst tells us about the destroy option, doesn't he? 

Did anyone in the process of indoc ever made it out? 

Even if ******'s pssoble, not choosing any of the choices is also a way out, no? Not buy the catalyst's choices as reliable. Any of them.  

The last mental battle I understand as consensus of Harbinger and Shepard. Harbinger gives the rules, but it's still in Shepards mind. So the destroy option is there not because the reaper wants it, but because it's in Shepard's head. If indoctrinating Shepard would be so simple, Harbinger would not need the choices, or explaining them. He would just say - hello, what you can do now is touch that button and become one with us. Bye bye. But human mind is an amazing thing and doesn't work like this. I am sure if IT is true, bioware consulted psychologists. BTW some psychologists couple months back were here on the forums and presented a very interesing and inspiring point of view to IT from professional psychology side.

Modifié par SauliusL, 16 juin 2012 - 07:17 .

[llbountyhunter]

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

I'm sure Shepard sleeps more times than we see accross the duration of ME3.

And the first dream is before the turian moon mission, Mr House said and I confirmed it by looking it up.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Priority:_Palaven

OK then...The first dream still happens after the fall of earth anyway.

Which means that the literal "it's actually just a dream" interpretation makes perfect sense... Because all that death and destruction, including that poor wee boy (who represents all the people Shepard couldn't save), is fresh in Shepard mind and he's realising what's at stake now that the reapers are actually here.


See, being a literalist ain't so bad. ;)

Then where the dreams when everyone else die. Shepard still was near reapers before Mars, so them influecing his dream still sticks. And Shepard still face the reapers forces before the final mission, so it still stick theat the reaper MAYBE INFLUECING HIS DREAM.

Maaaaybe... Maybe not.

Don't you just love speculations?

gahh! curse you bioware and your open ended game! 

[Ageless Face]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

So then Shepard (from contact with the artifact) has indoctrination dormant inside him/her the same way TIM had Indoctrination inside him. TIM and Saren both weren't 'completely' indoctrinated until they start messing with Reaper tech and in Saren's case, implants. However, even that is subjective because through using paragon/renegade choices you can talk them into shooting themselves, which shows their inner resolve can still be manipulated.

Yes, that is what I mean. If Shepard had the effects reaper artifact inside him/her, then it should have been no problem for the reapersto make the indoctrination faster. Plant him/her near reaper tech. Yet the reapers didn't do it. The war could have been won much faster. 

 
You're definitely not wrong, but Amanda Kenson was indoctrinated in the same way. She started to feel she was 'doing something terrible' by destryong the relays and killing hundreds of thousands of people. Obviously it was also because she spent too much time around the object (silly lady) but the indoctrination manifested in her by playing on her morale, and she became a victim.

 

True, yet Shepard never really felt that s/he wanted to destroy the reapers less (until the very end, if you chose control or synthesis, and those are from other reasons to save syntetic lives). Shepard only felt the wight of death on his/her shoulders. That is reflected in the dreams. The dreams never made him less determind. 

  
But to think you can actually control a trillion year old race because the catalyst says so is buying into his logic. The whole "You can control us because you weren't already indoctrinated like TIM was" logic.
EDIT: Also this;

  

That is different problem. Let's just say that I believe the crucible can make you control the reapers, a mind upload. That is a specualtation, though. But I believe it just like I believe shooting one tube can magically destroy all the reapers. Or that synthesis will create DNA. Absured, but I take it all at face value.

   

SauliusL wrote...
Choosing destroy - doesn't destroy the reapers, like he says

Forgot to add that in. Thanks SauliusL! 

 

Answered his post already. I think.  

 
In cases where the indoctrination has evolved to the point where you've been implanted or severely effected, you are correct. Re: TIM & Saren.

2nd EDIT: I should really just say Saren at the end there, because according to IT, TIM never committed suicide. Just so I'm not blurring any lines and confusing people.

Don't worry, I won't tell anyone you said TIM commited suicide .

Modifié par HagarIshay, 16 juin 2012 - 07:23 .

[Ageless Face]

Okay, as much as I'd love to stay here and argue... I have to go to sleep now.

I'm sure you will all miss me very much.

[jijeebo]

llbountyhunter wrote...

jijeebo wrote...


Maaaaybe... Maybe not.

Don't you just love speculations?

gahh! curse you bioware and your open ended game! 

BIOWARE!!1!

[Jadebaby]

HagarIshay wrote...

Yes, that is what I mean. If Shepard had the effects reaper artifact inside him/her, then it should have been no problem for the reapersto make the indoctrination faster. Plant him/her near reaper tech. Yet the reapers didn't do it. The war could have been won much faster.

You're forgetting that for the next 6 months after Object Rho Shepard is locked up. The Reapers had no access. And indoctrination can't just "speed up" of it's own will. It needs more influence presented to the thrall.

True, yet Shepard never really felt that s/he wanted to destroy the reapers less (until the very end, if you chose control or synthesis, and those are from other reasons to save syntetic lives). Shepard only felt the wight of death on his/her shoulders. That is reflected in the dreams. The dreams never made him less determind.

They actually did, listen to how your Shepard sounds towards the end, I don't mean talking to the Catalyst, I mean pre Priority Earth talking to your squadmates and Anderon/Hackett, Shepard starts to doubt him/herself and their success. His/her faith starts to get shaken.
Okay, now I have a question... know I will make a thread for it, reply there to this question if you wish.

That is different problem. Let's just say that I believe the crucible can make you control the reapers, a mind upload. That is a specualtation, though. But I believe it just like I believe shooting one tube can magically destroy all the reapers. Or that synthesis will create DNA. Absured, but I take it all at face value.

But you can't take it at face value because it's just speculation. What I mean is at face value the crucible allows you access to these three choices, that's it. It doesn't, in it's own right, gurrantee these options will necessarily work. The only thing that does (at face value) is the Catalyst's word.

Don't worry, I won't tell anyone you said TIM commited suicide .

lol it's nice to know that some of the anti-IT people have a good sense of humour, I was starting to worry.

[Jadebaby]

jijeebo wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

jijeebo wrote...


Maaaaybe... Maybe not.

Don't you just love speculations?

gahh! curse you bioware and your open ended game! 

BIOWARE!!1!

Is he actually saying Bioware? sure looks like it....

[malakim2099]

So, just out of curiosity...

Do anti-ITers hate the IT so vehemently because it implies that Bioware knew what they were doing? Do they view pro-ITers as "apologists" for the ending so the pro-ITers deserve nothing but scorn? The sheer level of hostility is a bit curious to me.

I like the IT... but I absolutely despise the ending as it stands. At least, I like the IT that involves you gradually being indoctrinated over the course of ME3 (and ME2 with Arrival) with the final run to the beam and afterwards being a dream sequence/indoctrination vision. Still doesn't excuse the fact that, IT or not, the game was released unfinished.

If they make sense of things in the EC, then it's good. If not, then we part ways. I am patient in that regard.