383 réponses à ce sujet

[Epsilon330]

As soon as the new Thermal Clip is in place, there's no reason why the gun can't fire immediately. The gun is perfectly capable of firing again, therefore it can be fired. And what about Adren Rush? Does that count as Reload-Cancelling? Because it is in every sense of the definition.

[Rifneno]

Hexi-decimal wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Fun fact: Combos in fighting games were initially a bug. Seriously. Street Fighter 2. There was a way to do some simple combo but it was totally unintended and the devs left it in because it was so hard to do they thought no one would bother. Boy were they wrong. By the time the first of the 173,950 remakes of Street Fighter 2 hit the shelves, it officially went from "bug" to "feature" and they added some new ones. Now the genre is about combos.

Reload canceling is here to stay. It may have been unintended to begin with but that they put it back in for a whole new game very clearly means it's intended this time. Deal with it, primitive.

They weren't really bugs, just an unintended mechanic that happened due to the number of frames it took for moves to come out.  They were really difficult however, as in you had 1on or 2 frames in which to do the input necessary to make two things link as a combo, as in 1/60th of a second.  

But what was an unintended mechanic, as you said become a staple mechanic.

But yeah, pretty much what you said.

Hehe.  Yeah, that's a more accurate term.  I usually just go with "bug" simply because "unintended mechanic" tends to lead to arguments with people that don't understand the technical difference and think the former label means one wholeheartedly approves.  ...  Which, come to think of it, wouldn't even matter for the topic at hand.

[BoomDynamite]

I smell troll...

[xXdmndmnXx]

BoomDynamite wrote...

I smell troll...

[BROxXx]

l2p brah, reload cancelling is fine

[DNC Protoman]

Sdrol117 wrote...

 Do it. This is not the game working as intended. 

Denied.

-Hackett

[78stonewobble]

Zero132132 wrote...

It seems bizarre that people are arguing about this. The whole weapon balancing issue is something I can at least comprehend, because it would be boring as **** if everyone played the same class with the same weapon, but there's just no sensibility at all behind this.

Who gives a **** what the makers initially intended? From a utilitarian perspective, there's no reason to remove it, and many players have come to use it effectively, so there's a reason not to.

There are plenty of examples in the history of gaming where mistakes actually became an important game mechanic. Street Fighter 2 was one of the first games to have combos, but it was an accident, an artifact of game design that they didn't bother fixing because they thought the skill to exploit it would be beyond most players. Similarly, the increase in difficulty in Space Invaders as you defeat enemies was initially a consequence of the extreme limitations in processing power at the time. It was never intentional, but increasing difficulty over time influenced many, many games since then.

Point is that in the history of gaming, there are a ****ton of examples of certain exploits actually adding to (occasionally even defining) the character of a game. What the hell's so different here?

For good and bad.

Bunnyhopping, rocketjumping, conc. jumping, double conc. jumping and so on and so on.

Sure it has added to some games but it detracts from others.

Eg. in a realistic fps's... "Let me just aim that Anti Tank weapon at my feet and jump on top of the building...". 
There it ruins the immersion or it can ruin the balance of the game.

In my oppinion these things ruin more than they add. Apart from a sense of elitism which people apparently need.

[AmicusHumaniGeneris]

I see it as a skill people can learn to master. Play for a while, and you become more efficient. Like reloading a rifle in RL, some people claw at it for ten seconds before it's shouldered again, others find some trick to do it in less than two. It's trough means like these that people with some skill can outscore people without, even if their characters and weapons are exactly the same. Just like with aiming.

[Kingston Atticus]

Trakarg wrote...

I wouldn't mind if they just removed reload cancelling, but reduced the reload time of all cancellable reload animations to compensate.

It isn't interesting to tap my medigel key during every reload. It's just... tedious.

So don't. Nobody says you have to reload cancel. And I don't know about the pc, but on xbox there are several diff things to do to reload cancel. Use a consumable as you mentioned, use a power like most infi do, or hit the action button.

[Sdrol117]

This thread is phenomenal. I agree with people saying it should have been mentioned as a tip, or it should be more intertwined with game mechanics, as of now it works more as an exploit, and Bioware just yelled FEATURE, to please all the tryhards in my thread who just cry about the scoreboard as if I care what place I'm in.

What makes the GoW version so much BETTER is that it is intertwined with the game, from gameplay, animations, and skill timing. Anybody who fails reload cancelling is just purely bad, because all you have to do is do it after the ammo shows up, which is pretty simple, and doing it too late has no penalty.And anybody using the argument that the game is "balanced" around this mechanic, is really just fooling themselves, and that is in no way how a game should be balanced. Which it isn't, at all. If you think a person who reload cancels every shot of the claymore is "balanced"....lol.

The only reason I "cry" for it to be removed, is because there is never a mention of it, there is no actual mechanic, a lot of people don't know about it, and it makes some guns a lot better than they should be, breaking balance more than anything.

[Haloburner]

Why bother? It makes very little difference in overall gameplay, a lot of people don't know about it, and it would just be something else Bioware would have to fix. There are far more pressing matters (bugs/glitches) than a stupid animation cancel.

[xxHiDa SuFixx]

AmicusHumaniGeneris wrote...

I see it as a skill people can learn to master. Play for a while, and you become more efficient. Like reloading a rifle in RL, some people claw at it for ten seconds before it's shouldered again, others find some trick to do it in less than two. It's trough means like these that people with some skill can outscore people without, even if their characters and weapons are exactly the same. Just like with aiming.

Agreed.

Its like a crossover dribble in basketball, a high step in football, a curveball in baseball, etc, etc

Everyone can do it with some practice.  Sure it wasn't in the instruction manual ... but neither were a lot of basketball techniques when I played during school.

I definitely do not want this removed from the game because it's a skill that can be learned, practiced, and then used to increase one's capability and thus enjoyment of this game.

Also ... if your teammates are reload canceling ... be thankful ... they're also probably putting in more than their share of effort to help you make it to extraction.

[crentel]

I don't understand posts like this when this is CO-OP.

A mod said it was a "game mechanic" or something not an exploit.  Reload canceling is also present within a number of other games as well go try it.

[Rahabzu]

Starcraft has glitches that have become game mechanics I don't see the problem.

[Kenadian]

Rahabzu wrote...

Starcraft has glitches that have become game mechanics I don't see the problem.

Such as?

[Rahabzu]

Kenadian wrote...

Rahabzu wrote...

Starcraft has glitches that have become game mechanics I don't see the problem.

Such as?

Stracking air units was a glitch.

[ToaOrka]

Psh. Don't act like you can tell Bioware what to do. They own you.

[Quxorda]

Rahabzu wrote...

Kenadian wrote...

Rahabzu wrote...

Starcraft has glitches that have become game mechanics I don't see the problem.

Such as?

Stracking air units was a glitch.

Zerg extractor trick, gives people 1 or 2 drones before they have the unity supply to normally allow that many. Very minor thing, difficult to do, yet is considered an advanced technique and is used by pros in touneys in addition to normal people on the ladder.

[Sovereign24]

I like reload cancelling. I just have an issue where it's much easier to do it on PC, as opposed to consoles, due to the medigel trick.

Would be sweet if consoles could use medigel button to reload cancel as well.

[neteng101]

Its kinda amazing, they put in a feature that requires some work to get right, and people complain. They put in a brainless gun, and people complain. One requires too much skill, they other requires too little skill. Soon enough, they should just nerf the fire button entirely.

Let's just melee all things to death then!

[Yajuu Omoi]

A "game mechanic" that only works for cheaters? Yeah, junk it.

EDIT: Not trolling. Legit fact.

Modifié par Yajuu Omoi, 17 juin 2012 - 05:22 .

[sclera]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

A "game mechanic" that only works for cheaters? Yeah, junk it.

EDIT: Not trolling. Legit fact.

How many times does the Bioware dev need to be quoted in this thread? 

[Elite3141]

Teratoid wrote...

The consumable/skill keys are meant to activate immediately, which is why they can cancel reloads. Putting a limiter or a "safety" on them would make them a hindrance about 50% of the time, where you need to use them for actions other than reload-cancelling, but can't because of said limiter or "safety" timer.

So, sincere question: how do you propose reload cancelling be removed?

Medi-Gel reload canceling doesn't work on consoles.  Well, Xbox at least.  So it is doable.

I think they should just give consoles the Medi-Gel reload canceling to even the playing field a bit more.  PC already has it easier with a more precise way of aiming and a higher maximum look sensitivity.

[wizardryforever]

Okay, I'm too tired to read through all 10 pages of this, but I gotta chip in here.  I do think that reload canceling is a rather cheap trick that undermines gun balance (such as it is).  For instance, let's say you have a gun that has a long reload time and and small clip to compensate for the overall power of the gun.  Reload canceling pretty much completely removes that counterbalance for that weapon, and you end up with a more powerful gun than was intended.  I guarantee you that the Claymore would not be nearly as popular if reload canceling was removed.  No one wants to sit through the long reload time on that thing, but they like the damage it does, so they reload cancel it to get the best of both worlds (high damage and fast reload).

I don't necessarily think it should be removed, but I do see a problem with it.

[Immortal Strife]

I personally think reload canceling should only be possible with a power being cast. With powers as the only way to gain speed on reload canceling the user would have to perfectly spec a build around an ideal weapon in order to reap the most utility (reload cancels). My suggestion would create more masterfully tailored character builds, eliminate reload cancels dodging (literally) weapon balance, and unfair exploits (medigel cancel, PC vs console).

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 17 juin 2012 - 06:49 .