383 réponses à ce sujet

[DVS27t]

Sdrol117 wrote...

 Do it. This is not the game working as intended. 

Reported for trolling. 

GO. AWAY. 

[Kusy]

@avenged100fold 


Man, sort out your problems before going to a public forum. It makes you look kind of funny.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 16 juin 2012 - 06:44 .

[Fox-snipe]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Fox-snipe wrote...
The utter lack of communicating it exists though is a bit sucky.

Guys, for crying out loud. Everyone who plays the game for more than a month knows about it unless he's not paying that much attention (meaning he most likely doesn't mind one way or another). Anyone who has eyes is bound to notice that if he sprint while reloading something happens, if not that he's bound to notice someone else is doing it.

The lack of having any type of communication on the ability to cancel reloads though is partly why these types if arguments pop up.  It wasn't advertised as a feature so "it must be a glitch."

I don't think many people would pay attention to other players' reload times.  I think the only reason I found out about reload cancelling is because I needed to run away in the middle of a reload.

Not that it should be removed.  It's essentially gone from a glitch to a "hey, that's cool, let's keep it in" deal.  I'd imagine it could "very easily" (conceptually) be fixed if Bioware actually wanted.  Just add an extra second to the timer that resets your shot counter.

Modifié par Fox-snipe, 16 juin 2012 - 06:49 .

[Thaxor]

Mr.Kusy wrote...
[...]
3. Nobody said it was intentionally added into the game, it was intentionally left in it even after it became obvious it allows you to reload faster. BioWare choose not to fix a "glitch" (and people from BioWare stated so) basically making it a feature.
[...]

Not trying to mince words here, but a large number of people in these reload canceling threads DO insist it was intentionally added because Bioware came down and said so (which from an epistomoligical standpoint, I guess makes them correct...).

I can't speak for the OP, but I have nothing intrinsically against reload cancel, but I DO have something against the current model being used.  If it all possible, I would love for it to be scrapped and a fully developed and intended feature be added, not this duct-taped on "featurette".

Fox-snipe wrote...

Thaxor wrote...
[...]

In ME2 it was clearly a
glitch (only worked with a single weapon if I recall).  The fact it
works for pretty much everything in ME3 now tells me they decided to
keep it and just tweaked it/cleaned it up so it's more in line with how
the game was designed and fit with the rest of the gameplay.  It may
have started out as a glitch but it's now "intended" to be there.

The utter lack of communicating it exists though is a bit sucky.

Agreed, though see my beef with it above.

And yes, Bioware's method of communicating this is less then stellar...

[avenged100fold]

1. I knew saying casual was a bad idea. How about people with no mics and who don't visit this board? Cause I bet most of them don't realize they could shorten every reload by hitting the medical button. And I bet they play gold fine without, unlike you, apparently.

2. You are still not addressing my arguments for this. You just put right said realism doesn't matter, and space magic means the clip will never fall after the ammo counter increases. Maybe if you could read, you would have noticed my argument against that: why have any animation after that, then?

3. Lokiwitharope, korolen, capa223, epiquephael767, paperalien, and quxorda all made it sound like that. Does the entire first page constitute this "no one" of yours?

4. Look at my reply to the other ****-eating retard.

Just stop man, if you could argue my points or even argue coherently this would fine but your just making yourself look stupid.

[Red_SuperGiant]

dude....there are much, much more game breaking glitches in the game which have been listed already. If they were to "fix" reload cancelling it should be at the very bottom of their long to-do list, far enough down the bottom that it will be ignored.

[avenged100fold]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

@avenged100fold 


Man, sort out your problems before going to a public forum. It makes you look kind of funny.

I can't even begin to imagine what problems you think I have, man. I can only see your inability to even understand what I'm saying.

Let's put it this way. This is the conversation between sovereign and Shepard. I am sovereign. You cannot fathom my meanings.

Get it?

And other people seem to understand my arguments fine and support me. So I'd say you're the only one here incapable of intelligence. 
Sorry for bringing people who agree with me in to this, don't feel a need to jump to my defense just because I'm citing you guys. Ignorant troll. m stick with trolling me.

[Thaxor]

Red_SuperGiant wrote...

dude....there are much, much more game breaking glitches in the game which have been listed already. If they were to "fix" reload cancelling it should be at the very bottom of their long to-do list, far enough down the bottom that it will be ignored.

This board was institiuted (in part) to recieve feedback about the game.  What people like, don't like, what needs fixing, etc.  I'm not going to stop advocating a position just because it's unlikely to happen... ok, actually I probably will, but I WON'T stop DEFENDING a position against folks who say things like, throw it to the bottom of the "to-do" list where it will be ignored.

Nice back-handed "support" there

[hijackerjack]

This thread is turning into a troll war. You guys need to calm down a bit lol, or they're gonna close this thread. I dunno why you guys are being so defensive though. If the devs say it's a game mechanic, let it be and move on. No need to ride each others' asses about it. 

Modifié par hijackerjack, 16 juin 2012 - 07:00 .

[Terraflare]

dumb board

Modifié par Terraflare, 16 juin 2012 - 07:01 .

[Terraflare]

Thaxor wrote...

The utter lack of communicating it exists though is a bit sucky.

Agreed, though see my beef with it above.

And yes, Bioware's method of communicating this is less then stellar...

Just curious, why do they need to communicate it though? Its an off tangent use of their mechanics, just like air-strafing was. Imagine how valve (or sierra entertainment) would have to describe bunny hopping in a manual: "You can move faster by jumping, pressing strafe keys, and swinging your view in tandem, and pressing jump again at the right time, and then strafing in an alternate direction, and dont hold forward..." etc etc etc. Like how about doing a roll off the ladder?

It cuts your stagger animation down and allows you to recover faster than climbing down said ladder. Does Bioware need to communicate this as well? IMO mechanics such as these make each game unique and interesting, since paying attention and exerting a little extra effort here and there pays off in small ways. Players that dont notice it, too bad? No one told me about that little shortcut side-road i take to work that saves me 10 minutes each day. Whats the difference? 

Modifié par Terraflare, 16 juin 2012 - 07:01 .

[BINO973]

If Bioware actually listened to all the people crying out for nerfs, we'd basically end up shooting foam darts at Reaper Destroyers. Reload cancelling is fine, if you couldn't reload cancel guns like the Widow and Claymore would be almost useless.

[avenged100fold]

I agree with you terraflare, I don't think it needs to be told to everyone. Unless it is a "feature". Specifically, a feature that allows you to reload faster, not a feature that allows you to cancel it do you can run. Because that part is obvious and intuitive. Not so much with this. I didn't know it existed before I came to the forums, and that was about two weeks ago. Thing is, once you know it exists, it's simple.

And air strafing is simple and intuitive as well.

But maybe I'm just not quite so aggression oriented as most. I'm content to sit behind cover while I reload, then run away when they get to overwhelming numbers. Why take a stand and pop of slightly more rounds per minute when I can just briefly recharge my shields or run? Makes sense why I never thought to use the mechanic to reload faster, I never had reason too.

[The Milky Waver]

No, OP. You just have a self destructive personality.

[avenged100fold]

BINO973 wrote...

If Bioware actually listened to all the people crying out for nerfs, we'd basically end up shooting foam darts at Reaper Destroyers. Reload cancelling is fine, if you couldn't reload cancel guns like the Widow and Claymore would be almost useless.

Again, something is bad without an exploit, isn't that proof that the gun is unbalanced and not that n exploit was intended to be used? 

I have an interesting anecdote from a state law to compare to this. My state has a law that says if a cop follows you for more that 60 seconds before turning on his lights and pulling you over, the ticket is invalid because it is a mild form of stalking. So, if, after those sixth seconds, I floor it and do 30 over, was that law intended to let me get places faster without getting in trouble? Or was that a side effect of the law trying to fix a completely unrelated issue?

Modifié par avenged100fold, 16 juin 2012 - 07:17 .

[avenged100fold]

The Milky Waver wrote...

No, OP. You just have a self destructive personality.

I'm not even OP, oh one of infinite intelligence. And please, explain this to me, oh enlightened one.

Modifié par avenged100fold, 16 juin 2012 - 07:15 .

[Red_SuperGiant]

Thaxor wrote...

Red_SuperGiant wrote...

dude....there are much, much more game breaking glitches in the game which have been listed already. If they were to "fix" reload cancelling it should be at the very bottom of their long to-do list, far enough down the bottom that it will be ignored.

This board was institiuted (in part) to recieve feedback about the game.  What people like, don't like, what needs fixing, etc.  I'm not going to stop advocating a position just because it's unlikely to happen... ok, actually I probably will, but I WON'T stop DEFENDING a position against folks who say things like, throw it to the bottom of the "to-do" list where it will be ignored.

Nice back-handed "support" there

I agree which is why i left my opinion here about the game

[Fox-snipe]

Terraflare wrote...
Just curious, why do they need to communicate it though? Its an off tangent use of their mechanics, just like air-strafing was. Imagine how valve (or sierra entertainment) would have to describe bunny hopping in a manual: "You can move faster by jumping, pressing strafe keys, and swinging your view in tandem, and pressing jump again at the right time, and then strafing in an alternate direction, and dont hold forward..." etc etc etc. Like how about doing a roll off the ladder?

Not a big fan of Valve or their games (shaddap ) so I don't know the circumstances well, but from other games I've played with bunnyhopping it really isn't an indended feature of the game, at all.  Most devs just don't feel it worth the time to fix.  That's not the same as saying "Yes, it's supposed to work like that."  Re-use of poorly coded engines doesn't help things either which means the devs licensing the engine have no control over it.

It cuts your stagger animation down and allows you to recover faster than climbing down said ladder. Does Bioware need to communicate this as well? IMO mechanics such as these make each game unique and interesting, since paying attention and exerting a little extra effort here and there pays off in small ways. Players that dont notice it, too bad? No one told me about that little shortcut side-road i take to work that saves me 10 minutes each day. Whats the difference?

The ladders I'd say are a glitch, especially when you roll off the one opening where the ladder is (instead of to the side where there is no wall).  I say this because even when I roll off the end my character model still performs a small portion of the jump-down animation (for short ladders anyway) which delays my ability to get moving.  Besides, it's better to side-step off a ladder (not necessarily a dodge or anything, just walk sideways off).

As for why I think reload-cancelling should have been communicated?  Because once it goes from "oops" to "ehh, leave it in and tweak/clean it up for all weapons" it becomes intended and you shouldn't need to search it out or have a "wait, WHAT?!" moment.  Maybe not in the game manual, but in some kind of tip list (like in-game, where there are a LOT of things not outlined anywhere else).

Modifié par Fox-snipe, 16 juin 2012 - 07:16 .

[Terraflare]

avenged100fold wrote...

I agree with you terraflare, I don't think it needs to be told to everyone. Unless it is a "feature". Specifically, a feature that allows you to reload faster, not a feature that allows you to cancel it do you can run. Because that part is obvious and intuitive. Not so much with this. I didn't know it existed before I came to the forums, and that was about two weeks ago. Thing is, once you know it exists, it's simple.

And air strafing is simple and intuitive as well.

But maybe I'm just not quite so aggression oriented as most. I'm content to sit behind cover while I reload, then run away when they get to overwhelming numbers. Why take a stand and pop of slightly more rounds per minute when I can just briefly recharge my shields or run? Makes sense why I never thought to use the mechanic to reload faster, I never had reason too.

If you played infiltrator you would immediately discover it, since cloak timing, if activated right off CD, will perfectly cancel the reload (for widow/blackwidow). 

Whether or not it is effectively "simple" doesnt matter. As long as it requires some form of effort to pull off consistently, and some effort to even notice, no matter how little skill or effort is in question, then it doesnt need to be communicated to everyone. For eg, taking cover (pressing space near a desk), is a basic mechanic, that needs to be communicated. Pressing the medigel key exactly 1 second after emptying a clip (which can be affected by RoF increasing abilities like hunter mode/AR) is not a basic mechanic.

Just like air strafing is. If its easy for you (and for me), so be it, I still have to pay attention to do it. Air strafing requires HEAPS more skill to do perfectly and effectively. Its a common joke that Euro Div 1 TF2 players are crap at air strafing while the US invite level teams can strafe in ways that makes it ridiculously hard to airshot. Sorry, its not "simple and intuitive" as you claim it is.  Likewise, reload cancelling may not be simple, nor intuitive, to a large number of players, hence the effort taken to see this and use it, justifies it.

[avenged100fold]

Oops. Ha, I'd completely forgotten about Tcloak with rc's! I've been doing that forever! Never really bothered to apply it to other weapons, though.

Still doesn't change my position, I still think it makes little sense and isn't a feature in the sense of decreasing reload time.

Well, it seems like those morons ran off. Civility time, anyone?

Modifié par avenged100fold, 16 juin 2012 - 07:22 .

[Rokayt]

Why dont we just fix medigel/spacebar reload cancelling for nothing?

[avenged100fold]

Rokayt wrote...

Why dont we just fix medigel/spacebar reload cancelling for nothing?

Well, isn't the space at like the A button on Xbox? It makes you dodge and lots of other junk? That would limit you to the possibility of 3 seconds of normal walking speed after you realize a Prime is standing right behind you. No roll, no dodge, no sprint. Which is far more unnacceptable.

[avenged100fold]

If you hit reload right as the realization hits, I mean. And you have claymore. A slow, slow claymore.

[Terraflare]

Fox-snipe wrote...

Not a big fan of Valve or their games (shaddap ) so I don't know the circumstances well, but from other games I've played with bunnyhopping it really isn't an indended feature of the game, at all.  Most devs just don't feel it worth the time to fix.  That's not the same as saying "Yes, it's supposed to work like that."  Re-use of poorly coded engines doesn't help things either which means the devs licensing the engine have no control over it.

Yes well, I guess we are nit picking here. At the end of the day all that matters is that bioware has already stated that it 1) Is a feature (no matter how lazy they are in saying this) and 2) It isnt going to be removed. So that should be enough for anyone. Whether or not that means it is strictly, strictly INTENTIONAL , I dont really care about. For all purposes, it is. Therefore to use your point, if I created a request for valve to fix airstrafing, it is even more legitimate than this post, because airstrafing was never denied or accepted as being a bug. No one even raised it up, the community just accepted it as part of the game and moved on.

Which is why I find it curious that this game (not even a PvP game like quake/CS/TF2, not even on the same competitive league, not even involving thousands of dollars of prize money) has a community that is so uptight over balance/minor bugs/strange features/things that dont make much "sense". When an "OP" new weapon gets released into TF2, there isnt this forum outcry over it, just that the regulars will quickly realise it and avoid using it, even if they could abuse it to high hell and destroy noobs with it. 

Modifié par Terraflare, 16 juin 2012 - 07:31 .

[MostlyAutumn]

Christina Norman to the rescue.
http://social.biowar...x/1006000/?lf=8

One advanced tip I can give for vanguard players is, you can cancel out of a reload animation to melee an enemy and you will still reload as long as you've completed 60% of the reload animation. It's tricky to master, definitely for more twitchy players, but it really helps with the claymore.

You can do it with any class and any weapon. In addition to melee, any power works to cancel out of a reload. For example, on my adept I often use pull or warp to cancel out of a reload.

http://social.biowar...x/4840984/?lf=8

I tuned the reload trick for consoles, if it is significantly easier to do on PC that was not intentional (but I wouldn't patch that away). What makes it significantly easier on PC so I can try to replicate it and tune them separately for ME3?

The reload trick is an example of canceling animations. This is a pretty common technique though it is primarily used in fighting games:

Here is an example of it in use in street fighter

http://www.eventhubs...3-third-strike/

If you don't like the reload trick, by all means don't use it! It is supposed to reward coordination and timing.

99% of players will have no interest in the reload trick, it's a very advanced feature, that is only useful with certain playstyles and weapons. It doesn't make sense to present that information to all users in documentation.

Documentation is generally for core gameplay concepts that you need to understand to play the game.
I purposefully mentioned this trick on the forums because I did want players to be aware of it and evidently it worked (everyone here at least seems aware of it). In my view the forums are a great way to distribute gameplay information that it doesn't make sense to include in the game.

With that said, I am not excusing myself for any situation where players are confused by information presented in game (i.e. charge not benefiting from biotic cooldown reducers). That was an error on my part, and for ME3 I will do a better job of communicating vital information that does matter (like cooldowns, and the effects of upgrades).

All this talk about the reload trick is entirely redundant.

Either you like the claymore or you don't. It has nothing to do with the reload trick. If there are players out the who feel forced to use the reload trick and hate it because it makes their thumbs bleed, I am sorry.

The claymore of the claymore was not in any way influenced by the existence of the reload trick.

Also reload trick is kind of a dumb name we should really call it reload canceling.