383 réponses à ce sujet

[avenged100fold]

If there's more animation for a reason, that reason must be keeping magazine or priming it, and reload cancelling should leave your magazine not fully ready. If the magazine is ready at that point in the animation, then why have more animation?

It makes no sense. It's that simple. Take out reload cancelling halfway through, and that would make sense. Take out animations after mag is in, and that makes sense.

I prefer option two.

[avenged100fold]

I like how people are comparing removing reload cancelling to removing bullets and even multiplayer altogether. Let's go back to that 99% figure I don't believe. So removing something 1% of players use is equivalent to removing something 100% of players use?

HUH
REALLY

CAUSE THAT MAKES SENSE

I'm just loling and trying to let others lol.

[Quxorda]

avenged100fold wrote...

Thaxor wrote...

Thanks for that MostlyAutumn.

It still doesn't change my core stance, that as implemented it's a shoddy (looking, at minimum) mechanic.  They could have implemented it much better IMO.

As to the greater issue of animation canceling, I see no problem with that.  I think it's totally fair to stop reloading mid reload if you need to get out of Dodge before you get killed.  I just wish that, at least in this specific case, you don't get both benefits, your gun reloaded and you're out of Dodge.  Getting both without any effort isn't interesting or fun.  Give me the choice between risking damage but reloading faster, OR rolling/running out of there, but having to take more time to get back in the fight.

That's all I want, a meaningful choice, not a "oh I'll just reload cancel every chance I get cause there is no downside".

Also, slight LOL at Christina saying it's an advanced skill that's hard to do.

I love this person

Thank you blessed person for understanding literally the only issue and being reasonable instead of fighting issues that don't exist.

And not calling me OP (cause I think they think I'm OP - secret - I'm not)

The issue is, tricks like reload canceling have existed since gaming started. Some are intended and some are simply products of the game. These tricks add flavor and depth to the game, they give people something to master as they get a feel for what they are playing. It's already been compared to things like rocket jumping, spin fuser jumping, wall skating ect.  Even a game like Star Craft II, a game that is a massive E-Sport featuring equally massive tourneys with tens of thousands of dollars at stake and balancing so extensive that changes are measured in milliseconds - has a trick like this (zergs extractor trick).

There is no harm in leaving such things in a game, not everyone uses them and not everyone needs too. They impart a definite benefit but the game is not unplayable without it, it's just an added layer of depth for those that want it. It may not be realistic, but not everything in a game needs to be - especially in this game, this isn't some Arma style simulation.

There is such a backlash in here because the issue at hand is silly, and wanting to remove it smacks of nothing more then someone wanting to take things away from others because he doesn't like them. If this was a competetive game then their might be some footing here, but it's not - it's co-op horde mode with shared experience and even if it was - everyone has the ability to do this.

[Thaxor]

Bubba TSJ wrote...

Why don't we just cancel multiplayer altogether while we're at it?

Yes because that's exactly what we are asking for:

"Bioware, please revise your game by making a 'feature' a little more fleshed out and 'feature' worthy instead of seeming so tacked on.  Also, cancel the game whle you're at it, because even though I want to help try to improve the game, what I REALLY want is the game canceled.  Really."

PLEASE, because revising (or even removing) reload canceling equates to canceling/killing the game.

If reload canceling is the lynchpin of enjoyment for you in this game...

[Transairion]

I have a legitimate question:

"Why do we need reload cancelling at all?"

If you can cancel the reloading animation partway through, and still get the new ammo, then it's a shortcut. Why do we need a shortcut? What's the point of a weapon doing tons of damage and being balanced by a "long reload" if you cancel that reload. Doesn't that entirely remove the whole balance of the weapon?

I don't understand, this isn't League of Legends, PvP with money for tournaments where the speed you push buttons if the difference between a 1 million dollar prize and defeat. It's co-op, vs computer AI, why do we need to reload faster than the animation?

What's the point of balancing stuff vs a long reload if you can reload cancel anyway?

Modifié par Transairion, 16 juin 2012 - 08:29 .

[Quxorda]

Transairion wrote...

I have a legitimate question:

"Why do we need reload cancelling at all?"

If you can cancel the reloading animation partway through, and still get the new ammo, then it's a shortcut. Why do we need a shortcut? What's the point of a weapon doing tons of damage and being balanced by a "long reload" if you cancel that reload. Doesn't that entirely remove the whole balance of the weapon?

I don't understand, this isn't League of Legends, PvP with money for tournaments where the speed you push buttons if the difference between a 1 million dollar prize and defeat. It's co-op, vs computer AI, why do we need to reload faster than the animation?

What's the point of balancing stuff vs a long reload if you can reload cancel anyway?

Because it adds flavor and fun. Refer to my post at the top of the page.

[Edalborez]

That 99% figure was back from ME2 development. Chances are that's not so accurate in the current state of the game; MP gave increased incentive to learn the technique.

Modifié par Edalborez, 16 juin 2012 - 08:31 .

[dddawda]

f*** off

[avenged100fold]

Quxorda, I'm begging you.

Please.

I'm on my knees.

Debate what I'm saying.

Not what you percieve me to be saying.

Because there seems to be a very big difference between the two.

I don't want it removed. I'm not even advocating that they end all reloads after the ammo counter resets (though I wouldn't mind it).

All I have done is point of logical fallacies and suggest ways to fix it
(this is important now)
IF IT WERE TO BE CHANGED

I sincerely doubt you can find a single post where I said it should be changed as opposed to me pointing out problems or giving what I think could solve it.

This is not me being sarcastic.

This is not me yelling.

This is me seriously begging you to just stop fighting ghosts, man.

[Pitznik]

Transairion wrote...

I have a legitimate question:

"Why do we need reload cancelling at all"

If you can cancel the reloading animation partway through, and still get the new ammo, then it's a shortcut. Why do we need a shortcut? What's the point of a weapon doing tons of damage and being balanced by a "long reload" if you cancel that reload. Doesn't that entirely remove the whole balance of the weapon?

I don't understand, this isn't League of Legends, PvP with money for tournaments where the speed you push buttons if the difference between a 1 million dollar prize and defeat. It's co-op, vs computer AI, why do we need to reload faster than the animation?

What's the point of balancing stuff vs a long reload if you can reload cancel anyway?

Why we won't remove headshots if you can just hit the enemy and damage is still done? Because it is extra effort for extra gain. Entirely optional, but rewarding if you're willing to put that extra effort. Game is more fun with stuff like that implemented. Why do I even have to explain this?

[Transairion]

Because it adds flavor and fun. Refer to my post at the top of the page.

So does glitching out of the map in Hydra, unless you consider that working as intended too.

Reload cancelling just makes balancing weapons V reload times a load of bull, since the reload is pratically non-existant if you cancel.

[avenged100fold]

Thaxor wrote...

Bubba TSJ wrote...

Why don't we just cancel multiplayer altogether while we're at it?

Yes because that's exactly what we are asking for:

"Bioware, please revise your game by making a 'feature' a little more fleshed out and 'feature' worthy instead of seeming so tacked on.  Also, cancel the game whle you're at it, because even though I want to help try to improve the game, what I REALLY want is the game canceled.  Really."

PLEASE, because revising (or even removing) reload canceling equates to canceling/killing the game.

If reload canceling is the lynchpin of enjoyment for you in this game...

You deserve a cookie man. I'm glad logical people are joining in here. It's about time.

[78stonewobble]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

God, remove bicycle riding.

It's a skill ffs, learn it, use it and/or stop complaining if others can while you can't,

So is coding... Home made cheats are ok ? 

EDIT: Moving and aiming a skill? Sure... But reloading?

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 16 juin 2012 - 08:37 .

[lpconfig]

avenged100fold wrote...

Thaxor wrote...

Bubba TSJ wrote...

Why don't we just cancel multiplayer altogether while we're at it?

Yes because that's exactly what we are asking for:

"Bioware, please revise your game by making a 'feature' a little more fleshed out and 'feature' worthy instead of seeming so tacked on.  Also, cancel the game whle you're at it, because even though I want to help try to improve the game, what I REALLY want is the game canceled.  Really."

PLEASE, because revising (or even removing) reload canceling equates to canceling/killing the game.

If reload canceling is the lynchpin of enjoyment for you in this game...

You deserve a cookie man. I'm glad logical people are joining in here. It's about time.

Yes, anyone who disagrees with you must be illogical, not simply having a differing opinion!  You dont seem very logical yourself making blanket statements like that.  

[avenged100fold]

Still some horrible comparisons that make no sense in here, though. Strangely, most are on the other side. Why is that?

Not being sarcastic (seriously I'm not)

[avenged100fold]

Glad you think that cancelling multiplayer is equivalent to removing reload cancelling Newman.

I don't think people who disagree with me are illogical.
I think these people who happen to disagree with me are making illogical arguments.

Can you seriously disagree? Do you think removing multiplayer is a good comparison? Then you, sir, are illogical.

[Jzargo]

You do not know what you have gotten yourself into OP.
First,The devolpers said its a feature and not a bug.
Second,If it was a bug they would have squashed A LONG TIME AGO LIKE MASS EFFECT 2 LONG AGO.
Third,how is it cheating?It simply save you precious seconds spent reloading so you can get back to shooting the enemy.

Modifié par Jzargo, 16 juin 2012 - 08:38 .

[MostlyAutumn]

Thaxor wrote...

Also, slight LOL at Christina saying it's an advanced skill that's hard to do.

It was relatively hard to master in ME2. Medigel cancel is significantly easier and I'm pretty sure medigel wasn't meant to be used that way.

[Thaxor]

Quxorda wrote...

avenged100fold wrote...

[...]

[...]

The issue is, tricks like reload canceling have existed since gaming started. Some are intended and some are simply products of the game. These tricks add flavor and depth to the game, they give people something to master as they get a feel for what they are playing. It's already been compared to things like rocket jumping, spin fuser jumping, wall skating ect.  Even a game like Star Craft II, a game that is a massive E-Sport featuring equally massive tourneys with tens of thousands of dollars at stake and balancing so extensive that changes are measured in milliseconds - has a trick like this (zergs extractor trick).

There is no harm in leaving such things in a game, not everyone uses them and not everyone needs too. They impart a definite benefit but the game is not unplayable without it, it's just an added layer of depth for those that want it. It may not be realistic, but not everything in a game needs to be - especially in this game, this isn't some Arma style simulation.

There is such a backlash in here because the issue at hand is silly, and wanting to remove it smacks of nothing more then someone wanting to take things away from others because he doesn't like them. If this was a competetive game then their might be some footing here, but it's not - it's co-op horde mode with shared experience and even if it was - everyone has the ability to do this.

For me at least, it's not a matter of removing, but improving.  Right now, you can reload cancel + gain the benefit of the action used to reload cancel (roll, run, etc).  I would MUCH prefer an exclusive OR setup, you reload cancel OR roll, run, etc, not both.

Also, and this is the flimsy argument I agree, it LOOKS absolutely horrendous to me.  There is no logic and flow to it.  In one instance, it takes me 3 seconds to reload the BW, and I go through all the motions and it looks "right".  In the other, I use my medigel, and somehow "magically" my reload time is almost cut in half.

Combine those 2 together and the "feature" feels flimsy, tacked on and not representative of what Bioware could do.  Hence, why I'd like it changed.

[Great Captain Steve]

If you don't like it, then don't use it and ignore it. There's nothing wrong with reload cancelling. The classes that rely on guns, such as the Soldier or Infiltrator, heavily benefit from it where if it weren't there then the heavier weapons (sniper rifles, the bigger assault rifles, shotguns) high reloading times and ammo chewing capabilities really **** them over. If you're specifically beefing against biotics or tech then I see what you mean, but honestly they hardly use their guns anyway if they're specced for power usage. It's not like the reload cancelling adds that much difference anyway. What, four extra bullets from the Revenant? Half the time it takes to get another shot out of the Widow? That's nothing.

Pitznik's got his **** right, it's there to be a little trick for the gamers to use. Like using a Submission Net then Heavy Melee with the Batarian Sentinel, or firing off a round with the Widow then immediately using Adrenaline Rush to refill the clip. It's entirely optional, and frankly I find it removes tedious, repetitive time from the game that could really **** you up if you get yourself into any sticky situations.

Nothing wrong with it, I just think you like to cry a lot.

[Edalborez]

Clamor all you want, reload cancelling likely isn't going anywhere. Both sides of this "argument" should just chill out.

[lpconfig]

avenged100fold wrote...

Glad you think that cancelling multiplayer is equivalent to removing reload cancelling Newman.

I don't think people who disagree with me are illogical.
I think these people who happen to disagree with me are making illogical arguments.

Can you seriously disagree? Do you think removing multiplayer is a good comparison? Then you, sir, are illogical.

I simply said that you are making blanket statements, which  you are.  Never actually said anything about my stance on the reload cancel, but you seemed pretty happy to give me my opinion for me.  Your such a nice guy.

[Bubba TSJ]

Thaxor wrote...

Bubba TSJ wrote...

Why don't we just cancel multiplayer altogether while we're at it?

Yes because that's exactly what we are asking for:

"Bioware, please revise your game by making a 'feature' a little more fleshed out and 'feature' worthy instead of seeming so tacked on.  Also, cancel the game whle you're at it, because even though I want to help try to improve the game, what I REALLY want is the game canceled.  Really."

PLEASE, because revising (or even removing) reload canceling equates to canceling/killing the game.

If reload canceling is the lynchpin of enjoyment for you in this game...

All people do here is whine, while they mask it as "improving the game".

[eldrjth]

you can perform reload cancels in many games but not as conveniently as pressing a singe key every time. usually in such games you interrupt your reload with another action such as running/taking cover and depending on how much of the animation is played determines if you have reloaded or not. BF3 has reload canceling (with quick switch of weapons) and you can increase the rate you fire bolt actions rifles significantly as a result.

[Transairion]

It simply save you precious seconds spent reloading so you can get back to shooting the enemy.

It wouldn't matter if certain weapons didn't have a long reload as "balancing". Case in point Claymore. If you're shooting the Claymore more than twice in 3 seconds, then we've got a problem. You should be spending those seconds reloading.

Why bother giving it a long reload if you can just cancel it? It just makes no sense, so they may as well remove all "offset by long reload" tags on some weapons.

That said, it's even worse in other games. You ever seen a 6-shot pistol in something like Black Ops being reloaded in like a second flat? Imagine a guy putting in 6 bullets in 6 different chambers all at once that quick... it's hilariously illogical to watch.