24 réponses à ce sujet

[ChowMan]

Okay, I am sure this has been asked TOO MANY TIMES TO COUNT, but thought I'd start a new one and maybe there are more recent, newer outlooks on her. I have so far watched playthroughts of Mass Effect 1 (I have a ps3, so couldn't play it ) and playing Mass Effect 2 right now. So if you have something to spoil in Mass Effect 1, that's okay. As for anything in Mass Efffect 3, I would ask of you to not mention anything.

So, what do you all think? You think she is racist..... er.... specist? I mean, sure, aliens are a different race, but do you think she strictly HATES aliens? I mean, in Mass Effect 1, she mentions how they make her unconfortable and how she doesn't trust them. HOWEVER, she did volunteer to help the Salarians at one point.

[huyre]

I do not really consider Ashley a speciest. She is not supposed to be one, according to her writer. She has said some awfully dodgy things in the Citadel (when you walk around and see what she has to say about her surroundings), but she clearly is no fan of Terra Firma and Cerberus. Can't recall what she exactly said, but I think she is just mistrustful and very on her guard.

Probably because there are a lot of aliens out there, who have already established themselves and are powerful and humanity is trying to squeeze in and still learning about it all. Also because of her background and human history (aliens just attacked, no "we come in peace, friendship is magic"), I think.

Modifié par huyre, 16 juin 2012 - 11:49 .

[gi543]

I think the term you're looking for is Xenophobe

[PsiFive]

Not racist. Probably at least a bit xenophobic to begin with but by the end of ME1 she changes, assuming she didn't die on Virmire, which seems a popular way for her to earn redemption to those who think she is racist or overly xenophobic. Either what she's said before has been misunderstood or she's now been around aliens enough to have changed her mind about them, but either way she verbally slaps the Terra Firma guy down if you take her with you to meet Anderson on the Citadel. Odd thing for a racist/xenophobe to do to the leader of a pro-human and anti-human/alien integration political party. Also in ME2 it's pretty clear that she loathes Cerberus. But mainly for the Terra Firma dialogue in ME1 I'd say she's not a racist and probably not much of a xenophobe. At worst she defaults to putting the interests of her own species first, but then blood is thicker than water and it probably goes for every second person in the galaxy. She's not even the only one in the games who does that, and I'm thinking of non-human characters here.

[LucasShark]

Is she a xenophobe? Hell yes in my books. She compares aliens to animals, constantly whines about humanity, is about as curtius to aliens as a stove is pleasant to sit on, and thinks humans are gods gift to the universe, I'd say that puts her over the racist bar.

[SojournerN7]

She's not racist or xenophobic. Those are two labels that some people apply to her who haven't taken the time to understand the character. At best she is distrustful of aliens and rightly so due to the first contact war.

She calls the pro-human Terra Firma party a group of xenophobic jackals, and doesn't trust Shepard working with the pro-human group Cerberus. keep in mind that Cerberus does recruit aliens to Shepard's cause, but only to further Cerberus' goals.

The dog reference is a metaphor that other people don't seem to get. Basically what she is saying in that dialogue is that given the choice, a species will always save it's own first, even humans would sacrifice something else in exchange for safety.

[LucasShark]

Sojourner83 wrote...
The dog reference is a metaphor that other people don't seem to get. Basically what she is saying in that dialogue is that given the choice, a species will always save it's own first, even humans would sacrifice something else in exchange for safety.

BOy was that a painful reach to read.

[PsiFive]

SPOILER ALERT

Oh for Pete's sake! Look, I count myself as an Ash hater, okay (declaration: I'm also a Kadian hater and wouldn't mind blowing them both up on Virmire if it was an option) but it's not for being a racist. I really do wonder if any of the 'Ashley's a racist' folk have ever taken her to the Citadel when you talk to the Terra Firma mob. Like I said above, she gives that TF leader a gobful of contempt and calls him out for being a racist bigot.

Now why would she do that if, as the Ash=racist people say, she believes basically the same thing as the guy she's just slammed for it? Her behaviour and dialogue in that scene simply make no sense if she's a racist or even a strong xenophobe. There's no reason for her to put on an act since she's never hidden her supposedly racist views from Shepard - the only reason we even know of those views is because she told them to Shepard while we watched. So when she encounters a political party of genuine racists and xenophobes that hold the same views so many ascribe to Ashley herself why does she condemn them rather than support them? It makes about as much sense as a Klansman punching another Klansman for using the n-word.

If you want me to believe that she's a racist or even more than mildly xenophobic then I need to hear a convincing explanation for her words and behaviour in that scene. The only two I can come up with is that either she was a bit racist but has had a change of heart or people have been reading too much into what she's said elsewhere. But if someone can find a sensible reason for her giving a bunch of racists a spray for being racists while being a racist herself then I'm all ears.

Modifié par PsiFive, 18 juin 2012 - 05:07 .

[ObserverStatus]

Actually, I think the proper term for Ashley's disposition is "radioactive crater".

[DeathScepter]

she is not an xenophobe. Anyone disagree with me is a troll and a bad one at that.

[Ryzaki]

Eh can't stand Ash but I don't think she's a xenophobe. Not completely anyway. She clearly has some issues if her constant jibe to Liara are any indication but it's nothing major. (She does have a horrible judge of character though. The one alien she doesn't jump down throat is the only one who arguably actually steals anything from the Normandy.)

[Aeowyn]

LucasShark wrote...

Is she a xenophobe? Hell yes in my books. She compares aliens to animals, constantly whines about humanity, is about as curtius to aliens as a stove is pleasant to sit on, and thinks humans are gods gift to the universe, I'd say that puts her over the racist bar.

In that metaphor the HUMANS are the animals, and boy do you have no idea what "whining" entails. Seriously, if you hate Ashley, hate her for real reasons and not things you just made up.

Ashley is not a racist or a xenophobe. The issues she brought up in ME1 turned out to be TRUE in ME3. So yeah, Ashley was right. I don't see why people are still complaining about this.

[survivor_686]

Ashley is one of the more complex characters in the ME universe. At first blush one could simply write her off as racist, but further explorations reveals she's a cynic, with a suprising soft side.

Ashley is cynical of other species, simple because of the fact that she views as quite similar to ours. She notes that fact that if push comes to shove, people would dump their allies if it meant their own survival.

Given her family history, its likely that Ashley holds a grudge against Turians. Note that her problems seem to stem with the Council leadership and for the most part seems to interact quite decently with Garrus.

She questions the logic of allowing a Krogan mercenary, a quarian engineer (whom conveniently happens to have important information about their target) and a cowboy cop (Garrus) on an Alliance prototype stealth ship.

One should note that in her interactions with Tali, Ashley reveals a surprisingly soft side. Her concern for Tali when she notices the quarians getting dirty looks, can hint that Ashley has beef with the Council races.

Simply put Ashley is a cynic, whom is suspicious of the Council's intentions and is concerned that if push comes to shove, humanity might have to defend itself. She does not view Humanity has having a divine imperative to rule the cosmos (a la Cerberus), but simply must have contingencies.

Funny thing is that in ME3 the council is quite okay with letting Earth burn, while they dither about. I'd think Ashley would earn a "I Told You So" right.

[fiendishchicken]

Maybe she is, Maybe she isn't. Doesn't matter to me, she's a nuclear crater on Virmire.

[Lotion Soronarr]

LucasShark wrote...

Is she a xenophobe? Hell yes in my books. She compares aliens to animals, constantly whines about humanity, is about as curtius to aliens as a stove is pleasant to sit on, and thinks humans are gods gift to the universe, I'd say that puts her over the racist bar.

That's because some of the DO look like animals.

Is that a space cow or a sentient, intelligent alien? Space yellifish or a sentient, intelligent alien?
Who knows?
Don't tell me that is not hte case.


Ashely is not racist. It's confirmed by the devs.
So all you haters can cut it, because you are factually and provenly wrong.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 28 juin 2012 - 07:03 .

[Omega Torsk]

[AshenSugar]

On my third playthrough of Mass Effect right now, and I'm finally forced to admit that I just don't like her as a person, despite all my efforts to  get to know her and make allowances for her attitude, even if I do understand the root causes of it.

I dislike the way she constantly tries to undermine Liara with snide comments, I dislike her distainful comments about the council races. Her attitude when meeting Shepard in Mass Effect 2, despite being entirely understandable, really annoyed me for some reason - though it shouldn't have been surprising.

Her consistant suspicion, and lack of trust during the inital and intermediate stages of Mass Effect 3 bugged me a great deal. How many times does Shepard need to prove himself before she's able to accept that he's not a Cerberus mole? Do his actions, his explanations,  the trust shown in him by other long-term companions and the Alliance command structure count for nothing? Presumably she believes that she's the 'only one who is capable of seeing through him'.

I always kept her alive in the past because I guess I'm a bit of an illogical old fashioned chivalrist who couldn't bear to let a woman come to harm... but this time.. sod her! She can do something useful and go out with a boom! At least Kaidan has an interesting back story.

Modifié par AshenSugar, 02 juillet 2012 - 02:26 .

[Urdnot Amenark]

Ash is a specist. She doesn't necessarily think the other alien races or alien species are inferior but does distrust them and based on her statements does hold some prejudice toward them (mainly the council races). Most of her distrust of course stems from the history her family has in reference to the First Contact War and the fall of Shanxi. Over time, as she has more exposure with the other species she begins to lose that prejudiced aspect.

EDIT: As for what her writer says about her, what one intends doesn't always equal what it becomes in the final product, and with regard to interpreting a body of work, it's the audience's collective interpretation that matters most. 

Modifié par Urdnot Amenark, 02 juillet 2012 - 06:55 .

[BurningBlood]

Ash's attitude towards the other species in general is fairly straightforward: in a crisis, each species will look out for its own kind first and foremost; therefore, humanity shouldn't trust the other species, because they'll always put their own interests before ours. That was the whole point of her sic-the-dog-on-the-bear analogy; the council is siccing you on Saren while they hide on the Citadel.

As survivor_686 already pointed out, that's not a xenophobic attitude, just a cynical one.

As for her attitude towards Liara, she's impatient with her during the debriefings but shows concern for her after Noveria, encouraging Shepard to comfort her.

[Armass81]

LucasShark wrote...

Is she a xenophobe? Hell yes in my books. She compares aliens to animals, constantly whines about humanity, is about as curtius to aliens as a stove is pleasant to sit on, and thinks humans are gods gift to the universe, I'd say that puts her over the racist bar.

Well aliens are animals, as are humans. You people seem to forget this.

Modifié par Armass81, 10 juillet 2012 - 10:59 .

[Roamingmachine]

I file Ashley in the "complete prat" category.Luckily, you have the options of first telling her to cram her opinions where the sun don't shine and later leave her hugging the nuke.

[Osmius]

Ash was more of a teenage girl in woman form, I thought. She had the temprement of a krogan hanging by his quads, an attitude that appears to be a terrible attemp at renegade, and she reads poetry. She isn't racist though. She just puts humanity above all other species. Because of her background (Shanxi) she wouldn't much like aliens, as they are the reason she has to scrub guns in a flying garage.
I always chose ashley as a romance anyway, mainly because she's like Jack but without problems. And have you seen her ME3 Romance scene? Miranda, move aside pul-leese...
Also, cause of her sense of loyalty, she's rather cute in ME3. Then again, ME2 I would have got Grunt to eat her. Stuck up Idiot...

[Doug M]

survivor_686 wrote...

Ashley is one of the more complex characters in the ME universe. At first blush one could simply write her off as racist, but further explorations reveals she's a cynic, with a suprising soft side.

Ashley is cynical of other species, simple because of the fact that she views as quite similar to ours. She notes that fact that if push comes to shove, people would dump their allies if it meant their own survival.

Given her family history, its likely that Ashley holds a grudge against Turians. Note that her problems seem to stem with the Council leadership and for the most part seems to interact quite decently with Garrus.

She questions the logic of allowing a Krogan mercenary, a quarian engineer (whom conveniently happens to have important information about their target) and a cowboy cop (Garrus) on an Alliance prototype stealth ship.

One should note that in her interactions with Tali, Ashley reveals a surprisingly soft side. Her concern for Tali when she notices the quarians getting dirty looks, can hint that Ashley has beef with the Council races.

Simply put Ashley is a cynic, whom is suspicious of the Council's intentions and is concerned that if push comes to shove, humanity might have to defend itself. She does not view Humanity has having a divine imperative to rule the cosmos (a la Cerberus), but simply must have contingencies.

Funny thing is that in ME3 the council is quite okay with letting Earth burn, while they dither about. I'd think Ashley would earn a "I Told You So" right.

Right on the money.  I couldn't have said it better myself, and all these reasons are why Ash is consistently my LI on my playthroughs.  She makes comments in the beginning of ME1 that make her sound like she has a low opinion of aliens, but then she also jumps on on the backs of a group of anti-alien/pro-human political extremists in the Citadel.
On a recent playthrough of ME1, Ash was in my party as I made the decision of whether or not to save the Council, and she encouraged me to save them, that what was going on was bigger than humanity.  Sure, this was a function of "Squad member 1" versus "Squad member 2" dialogue, but taken as character development, it was a nice point of growth.