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[Jerrybnsn]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Vormaerin wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...


Just how different would a dwarf handle the situaltion with the Arl of Redmon being in a coma as compared to a human noble or an alienage elf?  .

The actual actions? Probably little different.  But the conversation?  Consider that a dwarf has no connection to the Fade... they don't have demonic possession, abominations, mages, or any of the problems that afflict Redcliffe.   They also have a different view of family and honor.    Don't you think any of that might just affect how the conversation goes?

Dwarves have a resistance to magic (because of the lack of connection to the Fade) which should make it harder (not impossible)  to send a dwarf into the Fade. The First Enchanter should have suggested of  (in conversation) sending someone who is not of dwarven hertiage to aid Connor, since it would be easier to do so. That conversation never occurs.

When I played a human noble or an alienage elf, I wasn't an option of going into the Fade to resuce Connor. it was either Morrigan, Wynne, Jown or the First Enchanter himself.  Did a dwarf receive the option of going into the Fade?

[Nashimura]

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

Simply won't happen.

Since the main character is voiced, you'd need two VAs for each race, instead of just two VAs for the PC. Unfortunately, I think there's no way that'll get through EA's cost benefit analysis.

Not if....they all have french accents.

[Realmzmaster]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Vormaerin wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...


Just how different would a dwarf handle the situaltion with the Arl of Redmon being in a coma as compared to a human noble or an alienage elf?  .

The actual actions? Probably little different.  But the conversation?  Consider that a dwarf has no connection to the Fade... they don't have demonic possession, abominations, mages, or any of the problems that afflict Redcliffe.   They also have a different view of family and honor.    Don't you think any of that might just affect how the conversation goes?

Dwarves have a resistance to magic (because of the lack of connection to the Fade) which should make it harder (not impossible)  to send a dwarf into the Fade. The First Enchanter should have suggested of  (in conversation) sending someone who is not of dwarven hertiage to aid Connor, since it would be easier to do so. That conversation never occurs.

When I played a human noble or an alienage elf, I wasn't an option of going into the Fade to resuce Connor. it was either Morrigan, Wynne, Jown or the First Enchanter himself.  Did a dwarf receive the option of going into the Fade?

No Dwarf receives the option, but no explanation is given why it can or cannot happen. Dwarves can be sent into the Fade which is what Mother did to the Warden and party in Awakening and the Sloth demon in Origins  ( if you have Sigrun or the Warden is a dwarf). If Varric is with Hawke for the Night Terrors quest he ends up in the Fade.   No explanation is offered how the dwarven magic resistance is overcome.  

[Jerrybnsn]

Nashimura wrote...

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

Simply won't happen.

Since the main character is voiced, you'd need two VAs for each race, instead of just two VAs for the PC. Unfortunately, I think there's no way that'll get through EA's cost benefit analysis.

Not if....they all have french accents.

Oui.

[Jerrybnsn]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...


Dwarves have a resistance to magic (because of the lack of connection to the Fade) which should make it harder (not impossible)  to send a dwarf into the Fade. The First Enchanter should have suggested of  (in conversation) sending someone who is not of dwarven hertiage to aid Connor, since it would be easier to do so. That conversation never occurs.

When I played a human noble or an alienage elf, I wasn't an option of going into the Fade to resuce Connor. it was either Morrigan, Wynne, Jown or the First Enchanter himself.  Did a dwarf receive the option of going into the Fade?

No Dwarf receives the option, but no explanation is given why it can or cannot happen. Dwarves can be sent into the Fade which is what Mother did to the Warden and party in Awakening and the Sloth demon in Origins  ( if you have Sigrun or the Warden is a dwarf). If Varric is with Hawke for the Night Terrors quest he ends up in the Fade.   No explanation is offered how the dwarven magic resistance is overcome.  

But then you have to go back to the beginning of the dwarf origins and learn about their background as to the fact that dwarves can't practice magic.  Hence, no magic, no dwarf mages. No dwarf mages, no dwarf concern of controlling magic in their society and culture.  It does seem that the writers of the game could have gone into more detail about why this is, but considering the young dwarven girl wants to study magic and she learns more about lyrium, they don't seem to have the answers to the way things are themselves.

But I can agree with you that even though anyone can be sent into the fade, no explanation was given as to why it had to be a mage going into the Fade.  But that was the cause for all three races.  It was a "class" preference that was put forth with no explanation, not a "race" preference.

[Jerrybnsn]

I want to add that I saw The Hobbit movie trailer this weekend. And after this movie comes out at Christmas, there will be more people on this forum screaming to play dwarves in DA3. Especially if they can sing like the dwarves in the movie trailer. Book it.

[labargegrrrl]

just a quick note of clarification on the whole connor in the fade tangent...

if the warden is magi origin, they DO have the option of going into the fade for the rescue when the other warden origins don't. the first enchanter will also mention that they only have enough lyrium and resources to send someone once, so you can't fail or connor would have to be killed. i think the issue is that the resources are limited to the point where only a mage can go, or that they only know how to send a mage. deamons, darkspawn and dalish mages apparently have other means to send people into the fade that the circle either doesn't know about, or isn't willing to use.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

When I played a human noble or an alienage elf, I wasn't an option of going into the Fade to resuce Connor. it was either Morrigan, Wynne, Jown or the First Enchanter himself.  Did a dwarf receive the option of going into the Fade?

No Dwarf receives the option, but no explanation is given why it can or cannot happen. Dwarves can be sent into the Fade which is what Mother did to the Warden and party in Awakening and the Sloth demon in Origins  ( if you have Sigrun or the Warden is a dwarf). If Varric is with Hawke for the Night Terrors quest he ends up in the Fade.   No explanation is offered how the dwarven magic resistance is overcome.  

Only mages could rescue Connor.

Entering the Fade voluntarily is a different situation to being forcibly dragged there, as you are in Broken Tower and Awakening. Non-mages, including dwarves, can still enter the Fade if another agent is at play. This was true of the DA novels as well.

As to Night Terrors, while it's a similar situation to Connor's in DA:O, Marethari 'explains' it away as ancient Dalish magic or something. I forget precisely, but she implies the method she uses to sent the party Beyond isn't common knowledge.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 25 juin 2012 - 03:46 .

[Realmzmaster]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

When I played a human noble or an alienage elf, I wasn't an option of going into the Fade to resuce Connor. it was either Morrigan, Wynne, Jown or the First Enchanter himself.  Did a dwarf receive the option of going into the Fade?

No Dwarf receives the option, but no explanation is given why it can or cannot happen. Dwarves can be sent into the Fade which is what Mother did to the Warden and party in Awakening and the Sloth demon in Origins  ( if you have Sigrun or the Warden is a dwarf). If Varric is with Hawke for the Night Terrors quest he ends up in the Fade.   No explanation is offered how the dwarven magic resistance is overcome.  

Only mages could rescue Connor.

Entering the Fade voluntarily is a different situation to being forcibly dragged there, as you are in Broken Tower and Awakening. Non-mages, including dwarves, can still enter the Fade if another agent is at play. This was true of the DA novels as well.

As to Night Terrors, while it's a similar situation to Connor's in DA:O, Marethari 'explains' it away as ancient Dalish magic or something. I forget precisely, but she implies the method she uses to sent the party Beyond isn't common knowledge.

There is no reason why only a mage could rescue Connor. No explanation for that is given. Hawke does not have to be a mage and can be sent into the Fade to save Feynriel Torpor the sloth demon does mention two rare magics in one day. Still Feynriel goes to Tevinter to learn how to master his power so this type of magic it is not unknown. Bioware is not being consistent. 

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Realmzmaster wrote...

There is no reason why only a mage could rescue Connor. No explanation for that is given.

They probably didn't know how to send a mundane into the Fade. Like I said, Marethari mentioned the ritual she was using isn't common knowledge. Note that Marethari could also send more than one person, while both Jowan and Irving could only send one (they couldn't send multiple mages either).

If they truly believed only a mage could rescue Connor, what more explanation could they give?

Hawke does not have to be a mage and can be sent into the Fade to save Feynriel Torpor the sloth demon does mention two rare magics in one day. Still Feynriel goes to Tevinter to learn how to master his power so this type of magic it is not unknown.

I didn't say it was unknown. I said it was rare. Marethari said it was rare. Hawke didn't have to be a mage because of Marethari's ritual. Multiple people could be sent because of Marethari's ritual.

Bioware is not being consistent.

The ritual was extremely convenient, I'll grant, but that doesn't make any of it inconsistent.

[Realmzmaster]

labargegrrrl wrote...

just a quick note of clarification on the whole connor in the fade tangent...

if the warden is magi origin, they DO have the option of going into the fade for the rescue when the other warden origins don't. the first enchanter will also mention that they only have enough lyrium and resources to send someone once, so you can't fail or connor would have to be killed. i think the issue is that the resources are limited to the point where only a mage can go, or that they only know how to send a mage. deamons, darkspawn and dalish mages apparently have other means to send people into the fade that the circle either doesn't know about, or isn't willing to use.

Jowan can use blood as the resource with Isolde as the scarifice. The restriction is still only a mage can go without any explanation why. In DA2 Bioware uses the ancient dalish magic as a way of getting around the limitations Bioware set up in DAO. The Keeper uses neither blood no large amounts of lyrium and is the only one performing the ritual whereas the First Enchanter has other mages with him. The Keeper sends the entire party into the Fade. There is a lack of consistency.

[Jerrybnsn]

Realmzmaster wrote...

labargegrrrl wrote...

just a quick note of clarification on the whole connor in the fade tangent...

if the warden is magi origin, they DO have the option of going into the fade for the rescue when the other warden origins don't. ................deamons, darkspawn and dalish mages apparently have other means to send people into the fade that the circle either doesn't know about, or isn't willing to use.

The restriction is still only a mage can go without any explanation why. In DA2 Bioware uses the ancient dalish magic as a way of getting around the limitations Bioware set up in DAO. The Keeper uses neither blood no large amounts of lyrium and is the only one performing the ritual whereas the First Enchanter has other mages with him. The Keeper sends the entire party into the Fade. There is a lack of consistency.

Well, I believe we can all agree then that the situation with rescuing Conner in DA:O wasn't an issue of "race" but of "class", and; therefore,  not a lacksidaisical attitude on the developers part of not recognizing your character's race.

[Rawgrim]

If a game setting has lots of different races, then yes. Its a must.

[labargegrrrl]

Realmzmaster wrote...

labargegrrrl wrote...

just a quick note of clarification on the whole connor in the fade tangent...

if the warden is magi origin, they DO have the option of going into the fade for the rescue when the other warden origins don't. the first enchanter will also mention that they only have enough lyrium and resources to send someone once, so you can't fail or connor would have to be killed. i think the issue is that the resources are limited to the point where only a mage can go, or that they only know how to send a mage. deamons, darkspawn and dalish mages apparently have other means to send people into the fade that the circle either doesn't know about, or isn't willing to use.

Jowan can use blood as the resource with Isolde as the scarifice. The restriction is still only a mage can go without any explanation why. In DA2 Bioware uses the ancient dalish magic as a way of getting around the limitations Bioware set up in DAO. The Keeper uses neither blood no large amounts of lyrium and is the only one performing the ritual whereas the First Enchanter has other mages with him. The Keeper sends the entire party into the Fade. There is a lack of consistency.

i won't claim consistancy!  that's clearly got its limits in this universe!  lol.  i claim only half-decent revisionist tendancies on my good days!

[Samuel_Valkyrie]

No.

[Jerrybnsn]

Does Orlais have any Dalish clans living within their border? Since they were the empire that led exaulted marches against them, I think they would have made sure their own homeland was free of the Dalish heresy. Sort of like when the crusades started in Europe. The first thing to do was go after the heresy in their cities and surronding country side, like what happened with the European Jews and Cathars. To be consistent with the lore, there may not be a Dalish option for the hero of the story.

[AppealToReason]

I could care less. It depends more on the setting and the story arc. Wardens are anyone with any background. The Champion was a villager who ran from the blight and built up a legacy. That fits better with a human.

I don't think they'd need new VA's though. If you were to close your eyes through most of the dialogue and just listen you probably wouldn't know what species you were talking to without any prior knowledge of your immediate situation

[JohnCena94]

It would be nice.

[Urazz]

I actually prefer the fixed origin/race.  I liked the family aspects we saw with the Hawke family.  I only wished that DA2 started in Lothering where we could see the Hawke family before Ostagar and how they lived and how interacted with each other without the death of a family member haunting them.  It sure would've been nice to see Bethany and Carver interact more with each other I think.

[batlin]

Even if I end up really liking DA3, only having one available race makes DA3 rental-status for me. I'm not the type of person who will play a game more than once if each subsequent experience is very similar from the last.

[hussey 92]

Yes.

[Urazz]

batlin wrote...

Even if I end up really liking DA3, only having one available race makes DA3 rental-status for me. I'm not the type of person who will play a game more than once if each subsequent experience is very similar from the last.

More origins wouldn't affect that then.  In DA:Origins, the various origins had very little impact in the actual story beyond the beginning.

What it seems like you want is for your choices to matter in the game which was very minimal in DA2.  I.E. in DA2, it would've been nice to be able to side with Thrask's and Grace's little rebellion to add another side to pick in the ending, the ending would still be the same overall, but some things in it would change in the end like the Champion would be a more moderate influence with both sides instead of a rallying cry for one of the sides.

[Drasanil]

Urazz wrote...
More origins wouldn't affect that then.  In DA:Origins, the various origins had very little impact in the actual story beyond the beginning.

Materially? No the different origins didn't change that much past the intro. Whilst the origins didn't fundementally change the core of the story namely warden-rally army-kill archdemon, I and I suspect many others found that they added a level of depth and replay value simply by changing the player's perspective from the start, with the subtle changes through the ongoing game keeping that feeling alive. 

In this sense I would say they added to replay value, since even though you were replaying largely the same content it felt different. 

Where as having a fixed protagonist to DA2 really added nothing to the story, who Hawke was personally was only tagentally related (at best) to what happened, whilst making him/her the only option killed alot replay value because no matter nice/snarky/angry you were still Hawke at the end of the day. So even if you replayed and made different choices it still felt the same.

 --- --- --- --- ---

For me not having a fixed protagonist in DA3 is a must. First off, I generally dislike being shoehorned into playing a human in a fantasy setting with other races. Secondly, add to this that Bioware's approach to DA is that Thedas is the story not a given protagonist and even demonstrated as much by failling to make who Hawke was personally relevant to DA2 and there's absolutely no reason the option shouldn't be included. 

If DA3 has a human only Hawke style PC, I either won't buy it or wait till the price drops considerably. The only other thing I care about as much is the development toolkit, DA2 modding really suffered from not having one, being essentially consigned to replacers or a few extra weapons and armor as opposed to DAO's which were much more expansive and fun. 

[Fallstar]

My canon PCs are human, so if they force human again it wouldn't exactly be a 'no buy' situation for me. Having said that, I still like my playthroughs as other races, they do add replayability, and there are people who prefer to play as a non human race. I think having multiple races is just part of having a meaningful character creator, rather than a gender/class decision.

Whilst not necessary to me personally, I would still be disappointed if we have only one playable race.