381 réponses à ce sujet

[KingZayd]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Arondell wrote...

frylock23 wrote...


Don't put your negative impressions of people on the rest of us.

Neither should you assume all people are so altruistic.  Which is kind of the point to renegade options which I've noticed some people enjoy using. 

I only use renegade for punching allied aliens in the stomache that order their subordinates to shoot at a ship I'm still inside.

I would buy DLC (not for that much) that would give me a renegade interrupt that would let me shoot him in the stomach/face instead.

[jla0644]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It doesn't matter. A fallacy is a fallacy. Unless he provides data he has nothing.

Scientists not being able to decide whether or not the Gimlin film of Bigfoot is legitimate or not gives more credence.

There is more evidence that a giant hairy ape is out wandering the Pacific Northwest than the possibility of a singularity that will kill us.

Just because we aren't given a lengthy explanation, it doesn't mean we can assume the Catalyst doesn't have the data to back up what it says. We know next to nothing about it, what it is, where it came from, how long it has existed, what it has seen/done.

It's a fallacy only if the issue is addressed in the game, and the Catalyst cannot support its claim. Until then, it's only something that Bioware decided not to address, and what you are saying has absolutely no bearing on the game itself. As dumb as it is, it is presented to us as the truth. It is not presented to as something we can argue against or disprove. The most you can argue is that it's poorly written, and I doubt you will find much disagreement on that point.

[TaradosGon]

@BatmanTurian

I agree to an extent. I don't think the Reapers cared about any preserving any particular species, but organic life as a whole.

EDI remarks that the Reapers are solely concerned with self-preservation. The only way that I can see her arriving at that conclusion is from the events of ME2, when humans were to be processed into a human Reaper. The Reapers have to get some benefit that only humans can offer, since humans were singled out for "ascension." Even on the Citadel at the end of ME3, I think Shepard remarks that it is filled with human remains specifically.

Why none of the other races "ascended" I don't know.

Then they leave the galaxy alone for 50,000 years and come back when some new sentient lifeform has risen to dominance they come back and repeat.

They do need to preserve organic life as a renewable resource for them to do this though. And if sythetics were the dominant form of life, then organic synthetic life probably wouldn't develop and there would be nothing for the Reapers to harvest.

The Reapers have to be getting some benefit out of harvesting life though.

Modifié par TaradosGon, 17 juin 2012 - 10:03 .

[Taboo]

Bad writing can create an interpretation. Bad writing or mistakes can actually be a good thing. It can also result in things like the IT, so I'll have to meet you half way.

It doesn't matter how old he is though. He simply says it WILL happen. That would be a fallacy even if he was as billions of years old. BASIC logical steps are required.

But I think that that was the point. You either trust him or you don't, it's up to you. I don't think Bioware will address it either, or at least in a satisfactory manner.

That's what an interpretation is.

[noobcannon]

maybe the reapers aren't that bad after all.

[KingZayd]

jla0644 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

It doesn't matter. A fallacy is a fallacy. Unless he provides data he has nothing.

Scientists not being able to decide whether or not the Gimlin film of Bigfoot is legitimate or not gives more credence.

There is more evidence that a giant hairy ape is out wandering the Pacific Northwest than the possibility of a singularity that will kill us.

Just because we aren't given a lengthy explanation, it doesn't mean we can assume the Catalyst doesn't have the data to back up what it says. We know next to nothing about it, what it is, where it came from, how long it has existed, what it has seen/done.

It's a fallacy only if the issue is addressed in the game, and the Catalyst cannot support its claim. Until then, it's only something that Bioware decided not to address, and what you are saying has absolutely no bearing on the game itself. As dumb as it is, it is presented to us as the truth. It is not presented to as something we can argue against or disprove. The most you can argue is that it's poorly written, and I doubt you will find much disagreement on that point.

The Starchild had plenty of time to explain. It didn't.

[o Ventus]

noobcannon wrote...

maybe the reapers aren't that bad after all.

They killed those countless quintillions of people because they care.

[Taboo]

o Ventus wrote...

noobcannon wrote...

maybe the reapers aren't that bad after all.

They killed those countless quintillions of people because they care.

Don't worry, you can save people by killing them and storing their remains in your freezer o Ventus.

[o Ventus]

Taboo-XX wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

noobcannon wrote...

maybe the reapers aren't that bad after all.

They killed those countless quintillions of people because they care.

Don't worry, you can save people by killing them and storing their remains in your freezer o Ventus.

Oh, I already have...

/blackcomedy

Modifié par o Ventus, 17 juin 2012 - 10:14 .

[KingZayd]

Taboo-XX wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

noobcannon wrote...

maybe the reapers aren't that bad after all.

They killed those countless quintillions of people because they care.

Don't worry, you can save people by killing them and storing their remains in your freezer o Ventus.

It's more space efficient if you cut them up/disintegrate them first.

Modifié par KingZayd, 17 juin 2012 - 10:17 .

[o Ventus]

KingZayd wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

noobcannon wrote...

maybe the reapers aren't that bad after all.

They killed those countless quintillions of people because they care.

Don't worry, you can save people by killing them and storing their remains in your freezer o Ventus.

It's more space efficient if you cut them up/vaporise them first.

I prefer to melt them into goop. That way, their memories are stored!

Am I doing biology right?

[Taboo]

o Ventus wrote...

I prefer to melt them into goop. That way, their memories are stored!

Am I doing biology right?

You're Winner!

[KingZayd]

o Ventus wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

noobcannon wrote...

maybe the reapers aren't that bad after all.

They killed those countless quintillions of people because they care.

Don't worry, you can save people by killing them and storing their remains in your freezer o Ventus.

It's more space efficient if you cut them up/vaporise them first.

I prefer to melt them into goop. That way, their memories are stored!

Am I doing biology right?

haha, i thought you'd probably reply before I could change the word :/

Yeah it seems as if Mass Effect uses genetic memory in some form.

Modifié par KingZayd, 17 juin 2012 - 10:23 .

[Reorte]

jla0644 wrote...

Just because we aren't given a lengthy explanation, it doesn't mean we can assume the Catalyst doesn't have the data to back up what it says. We know next to nothing about it, what it is, where it came from, how long it has existed, what it has seen/done.

It's a fallacy only if the issue is addressed in the game, and the Catalyst cannot support its claim. Until then, it's only something that Bioware decided not to address, and what you are saying has absolutely no bearing on the game itself. As dumb as it is, it is presented to us as the truth. It is not presented to as something we can argue against or disprove. The most you can argue is that it's poorly written, and I doubt you will find much disagreement on that point.

We're not given any explanation, let alone a lengthy one. No hints of it throughout the entire series when the Reapers themselves have had plenty of opportunity to explain their motives. There is nothing about the Catalyst that makes me want to believe it. TIM did far better at that. When I played the game I assumed it was some desperate last-ditch effort to try to trick me because there's absolutely nothing to suggest that it wouldn't do that and plenty of reason to think that it would. The far-fetched explanation just reinforced that view.

[KingZayd]

Reorte wrote...

jla0644 wrote...

Just because we aren't given a lengthy explanation, it doesn't mean we can assume the Catalyst doesn't have the data to back up what it says. We know next to nothing about it, what it is, where it came from, how long it has existed, what it has seen/done.

It's a fallacy only if the issue is addressed in the game, and the Catalyst cannot support its claim. Until then, it's only something that Bioware decided not to address, and what you are saying has absolutely no bearing on the game itself. As dumb as it is, it is presented to us as the truth. It is not presented to as something we can argue against or disprove. The most you can argue is that it's poorly written, and I doubt you will find much disagreement on that point.

We're not given any explanation, let alone a lengthy one. No hints of it throughout the entire series when the Reapers themselves have had plenty of opportunity to explain their motives. There is nothing about the Catalyst that makes me want to believe it. TIM did far better at that. When I played the game I assumed it was some desperate last-ditch effort to try to trick me because there's absolutely nothing to suggest that it wouldn't do that and plenty of reason to think that it would. The far-fetched explanation just reinforced that view.

+1

Also, the whole "TIM couldn't control us because we were already controlling him, but we're totally not controlling you" thing.

[o Ventus]

KingZayd wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

noobcannon wrote...

maybe the reapers aren't that bad after all.

They killed those countless quintillions of people because they care.

Don't worry, you can save people by killing them and storing their remains in your freezer o Ventus.

It's more space efficient if you cut them up/vaporise them first.

I prefer to melt them into goop. That way, their memories are stored!

Am I doing biology right?

haha, i thought you'd probably reply before I could change the word :/

Yeah it seems as if Mass Effect uses genetic memory in some form.

Except that isn't how genetic memory works. In Assassin's Creed maybe, but I don't think AC is 1 big prequel series to ME.

[KingZayd]

o Ventus wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

noobcannon wrote...

maybe the reapers aren't that bad after all.

They killed those countless quintillions of people because they care.

Don't worry, you can save people by killing them and storing their remains in your freezer o Ventus.

It's more space efficient if you cut them up/vaporise them first.

I prefer to melt them into goop. That way, their memories are stored!

Am I doing biology right?

haha, i thought you'd probably reply before I could change the word :/

Yeah it seems as if Mass Effect uses genetic memory in some form.

Except that isn't how genetic memory works. In Assassin's Creed maybe, but I don't think AC is 1 big prequel series to ME.

I meant as a concept.

I wasn't aware there was evidence that genetic memory actually exists?

Modifié par KingZayd, 17 juin 2012 - 10:38 .

[o Ventus]

http://en.wikipedia....emory_(biology)

[Aggie Punbot]

The death of EDI and the geth is made a lot easier to deal with when you consider their own thoughts on similar matters. EDI has stated that she would *choose* to die to protect Joker. She did.

Legion has stated that it 'regrets the deaths of the creators, but we see no alternative.' It's exactly the same situation with the Reapers. My Shepard regrets the death of the geth but since the Reapers gave him/her no other option that would 100% guarantee that the Reapers would no longer return, it was a necessary action. Legion (and by extention ALL of the geth since its personality was disseminated to them all) would understand since it was forced into a similar situation earlier with the quarians. The difference there was that there was no one around to make a rousing speech to the Reapers to get them to just stop.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 17 juin 2012 - 10:56 .

[KingZayd]

o Ventus wrote...

http://en.wikipedia....emory_(biology)

http://en.wikipedia....ry_(psychology) 

is what I was referring to. Something I had seen in fiction.

I've read the biology one too. Have you done Biology to a higher level btw? Because at school it wasn't taught quite the way I liked it.

Does the genetic memory that exists, do something like somehow record which genes were useful and which ones weren't? Because I remember being told that Warfarin resistant rats bred in an environment without Warfarin (but with enough food, specfically Potassium? so no selective disadvantage) would eventually "turn off" the Warfarin resistance gene for efficiency or something.

And if I recall, genes are turned on/off with S-RNA, but then the system that regulates this wasn't covered at all by A-level Biology

[o Ventus]

Parapsychologists generally agree with the biological view that genetic traits are dispositional — i.e. that they merely encode a disposition to react in certain ways to environmental stimuli, and not actual memory or experience.

As to your question, wouldn't just be evolution and adaptation?

[KingZayd]

o Ventus wrote...

Parapsychologists generally agree with the biological view that genetic traits are dispositional — i.e. that they merely encode a disposition to react in certain ways to environmental stimuli, and not actual memory or experience.

As to your question, wouldn't just be evolution and adaptation?

Well, not really.. as the genes are still there, just they're not expressed. 

And yeah, I wasn't saying I believed in that genetic memory. Just that that's what the Mass Effect universe is using. It is Science Fiction after all.

Modifié par KingZayd, 17 juin 2012 - 11:25 .

[o Ventus]

KingZayd wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Parapsychologists generally agree with the biological view that genetic traits are dispositional — i.e. that they merely encode a disposition to react in certain ways to environmental stimuli, and not actual memory or experience.

As to your question, wouldn't just be evolution and adaptation?

Well, not really.. as the genes are still there, just they're not expressed. 

And yeah, I wasn't saying I believed in that genetic memory. Just that that's what the Mass Effect universe is using. It is Science Fiction after all.

Then I guess I'm misunderstanding your question. Are you asking if there's some way to "delete" unnecessary genes?

[KingZayd]

o Ventus wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Parapsychologists generally agree with the biological view that genetic traits are dispositional — i.e. that they merely encode a disposition to react in certain ways to environmental stimuli, and not actual memory or experience.

As to your question, wouldn't just be evolution and adaptation?

Well, not really.. as the genes are still there, just they're not expressed. 

And yeah, I wasn't saying I believed in that genetic memory. Just that that's what the Mass Effect universe is using. It is Science Fiction after all.

Then I guess I'm misunderstanding your question. Are you asking if there's some way to "delete" unnecessary genes?

Not delete, "turn off", so that it remains, but it's not expressed (the corresponding RNA isn't transcribed and the amino acids aren't made). I got the impression that S-RNA does this, but I don't know how it does this. If there's a system, or if it's random.

Modifié par KingZayd, 17 juin 2012 - 11:33 .

[jla0644]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Bad writing can create an interpretation. Bad writing or mistakes can actually be a good thing. It can also result in things like the IT, so I'll have to meet you half way.

It doesn't matter how old he is though. He simply says it WILL happen. That would be a fallacy even if he was as billions of years old. BASIC logical steps are required.

But I think that that was the point. You either trust him or you don't, it's up to you. I don't think Bioware will address it either, or at least in a satisfactory manner.

That's what an interpretation is.

How can you possibly choose any of the options if you think it is lying to you? If you don't trust it, then there is nothing for Shepard to do and the game is over right there. But as appealing as that sounds, it is unfortunately not an option.

And if you think it's not lying but is simply wrong, you're in a similar position. If it's wrong about everything, can you really trust that any of the options are going to do what it says they will do?

You can accept what it says and make your choice, or wait until you get a Mission Failure screen. If you reject what it says and still make a choice, what is your reasoning? It's lying to me but I'm going to jump in the beam anyway? It's wrong but I'm going to shoot the pipe and hope it doesn't open a black hole?

You can come up with a million reasons why it is lying or why it wrong, and they will each be meaningless, because in the end you still have to make a decision.

Reorte wrote...

We're not given any
explanation, let alone a lengthy one. No hints of it throughout the
entire series when the Reapers themselves have had plenty of opportunity
to explain their motives. There is nothing about the Catalyst that
makes me want to believe it. TIM did far better at that. When I played
the game I assumed it was some desperate last-ditch effort to try to
trick me because there's absolutely nothing to suggest that it wouldn't
do that and plenty of reason to think that it would. The far-fetched
explanation just reinforced that view.

See above.

KingZayd wrote...

The Starchild had plenty of time to explain. It didn't.

Because that is how the game was written. Not because it couldn't explain, but because Bioware didn't bother to do it.