381 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Taboo-XX wrote...
They were forced to.

Pay attention. A singularity does not necessarily equal violence either.

Two different people trying to live in the same space equals violence.
If one is clearly the stronger, it will either destroy or dominate the weaker.
Peace is only possible between equals.

Modifié par MisterJB, 16 juin 2012 - 09:24 .

[guacamayus]

Taboo-XX wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Not to mention, the chances of an AI achieving singularity and causing our extinction is much higher.

PROVE IT. 

Have you seen the geth? In their childhood, they drove their creators from their worlds. Their dreadnoughts are already larger and better equipped than ours only 300 years after their birth. They expansion is limitated only by available resources.
They advance at a much faster rate than us and more advanced species don't take into account the well being of less advanced species when planning their expansion. Just look at how humans treat the fauna on our planet.

They were forced to.

Pay attention. A singularity does not necessarily equal violence either.

No, but the point is that in 300 hundred years the geth were already surpassing organics. War doesn't necesarily need to be started by synthetics, in my opinion organics may be the ones straking first. Just like the quarian did, the only reason the geth didn't exterminate them was because they were too 'young' to know the possible consequences of killing their creators.

[The Night Mammoth]

MisterJB wrote...

Have you seen the geth? In their childhood, they drove their creators from their worlds. Their dreadnoughts are already larger and better equipped than ours only 300 years after their birth. They expansion is limitated only by available resources.
They advance at a much faster rate than us and more advanced species don't take into account the well being of less advanced species when planning their expansion. Just look at how humans treat the fauna on our planet.

You just told me some stuff about how they're moderately more advanced than some species, although whether that applies to the Asari and Salarians too is debatable. After all, they feared the Quarians would defeat them.

That point about expansion is strange, because it applies to every sapient species, and is also debatable for the Geth. We didn't see any out of the Perseus Veil until Nazara, did we? Why? Because the Geth didn't want to leave their sanctuary. 

You didn't prove why a singularity, which is something that may never come to pass, will then lead to an extinction event. 

[HellishFiend]

Taboo-XX wrote...


Believe me, I troll in real life ALL the time. But I'll look to liking if looking liking do.

Perspicacity has never been the ITs strong point, and neither has verisimilitude.

Look out everyone, the internet tough guy has armed himself with a thesaurus and a dictionary. Next he's going to wow us with his education background and credentials. 

[Tealjaker94]

MisterJB wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...
And the same will happen after synthesis. The poorer people will not be able to afford the same upgrades and be left behind. Synthesis does not solve anything.

It doesn't solve social ills but the upgrades it offers, it offers to everyone equally.

Using the word "offer" implies a choice. You don't "offer" anyone anything, you force a change upon them on the most fundamental level, one that you just admitted doesn't truly solve the problem. If they don't like it then too bad, you obviously know better than them.

[covertdrizzt]

guacamayus wrote...

are you saying that synthesis has anything to do with what the reapers did to the collectors? because that's incredibly absurd, the collectors were husks, nothing more.

synthesis is what they did to Saren.

[guacamayus]

HellishFiend wrote...

guacamayus wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

guacamayus wrote...

how is killing an entire species better than modifying everyone to evolve in a similar way?

Justice? The fact that everyone who ever thought that Control or Synthesis was a good idea turned out to be indoctrinated? Take your pick. Theyre both valid reasons for picking Destroy. 

where did you see that anyone supporting synthesis ended up indoctrinated?

Saren? Paul Grayson? Kai Leng? The Geth? The Collectors? If you cant see the thematic resonation across the trilogy, you must have taken a bathroom break during half the cutscenes in the trilogy. 

Syntheis, the way we see it ingame, is only possible through the crucible. Saren didn't even know it existed and Kai Leng was talking about using reaper tech as a weapon to fight the reapers. I don't know about Grayson because I didn't read the books.

The geth? when did any geth speak about synthesis? or the collectors, things that are just husks... no, I think it was you who didn't get what synthesis is about.

[Kaidan Fan]

MisterJB wrote...

Kaidan Fan wrote...

Mordin would like to talk to you and so would Javik.

So, you basically believe because something can be used for evil, it can't be used for good?
That's nonsensical.

You missed the entire point.  The point is that you no longer have control of your own body.  And doing that to others without their consent IS evil.

[Taboo]

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
They were forced to.

Pay attention. A singularity does not necessarily equal violence either.

Two different people trying to live in the same space equals violence.
If one is clearly the stronger, it will either destroy or dominate the weaker.
Peace is only possible between equals.

Human Histroy disagrees with you but that's okay, we can disregard logical arguments if you want.

[guacamayus]

covertdrizzt wrote...

guacamayus wrote...

are you saying that synthesis has anything to do with what the reapers did to the collectors? because that's incredibly absurd, the collectors were husks, nothing more.

synthesis is what they did to Saren.

saren was implanted with reaper tech, synthesis changes everyone at a molecular level. Completly different things.

[Sonashi]

Get your groove on OP, pro-destroyers work hard and they play harder.

But really, I don't understand some people. Some say that killing the Reapers is a wrong thing. I disagree. You can't explain that using stupid Catalyst thing. His main goal was preserving organics species in reaper form, ok but then he send them on a war. How stupid is that? Please explain how you can do this if you know that Reaper can be destroyed conventionally. He delibrately killed few nations on his own.

NICE

And Synthesis. Apart from giving less advanced and intelligent races big power and skills there is no guarantee there will be a peace. Shepard asked that question in ME 3. The Catalyst said that the cycle will end. Not a single word about peace. You can image powerful Yaghs starting a new war with upgraded Krogans.

DOUBLE NICE.

*sigh* maybe it's just a dream

[HellishFiend]

guacamayus wrote...

Syntheis, the way we see it ingame, is only possible through the crucible. Saren didn't even know it existed and Kai Leng was talking about using reaper tech as a weapon to fight the reapers. I don't know about Grayson because I didn't read the books.

The geth? when did any geth speak about synthesis? or the collectors, things that are just husks... no, I think it was you who didn't get what synthesis is about.

A hallmark of indoctrination is that for some reason you think in your case, everything is going to be different. This is, well, no different, actually. And in the case of the Geth, they turned to the Reapers for help and were promptly manipulated and repurposed. Same thing theyve done for millions of years. 

But go on thinking what you think. In fact, I encourage it. I would hate to think that it was figured out by everybody before the EC comes out. 

[Taboo]

HellishFiend wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...


Believe me, I troll in real life ALL the time. But I'll look to liking if looking liking do.

Perspicacity has never been the ITs strong point, and neither has verisimilitude.

Look out everyone, the internet tough guy has armed himself with a thesaurus and a dictionary. Next he's going to wow us with his education background and credentials. 

Occam's Razor suggests the obvious. They messed up.

You're in denial and in a few months everyone will know how how foolish all the IT things were. It's fun idea, but one born of confirmation bias and denial.

[HellishFiend]

Taboo-XX wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...


Believe me, I troll in real life ALL the time. But I'll look to liking if looking liking do.

Perspicacity has never been the ITs strong point, and neither has verisimilitude.

Look out everyone, the internet tough guy has armed himself with a thesaurus and a dictionary. Next he's going to wow us with his education background and credentials. 

Occam's Razor suggests the obvious. They messed up.

You're in denial and in a few months everyone will know how how foolish all the IT things were. It's fun idea, but one born of confirmation bias and denial.

Keep thinking that. I hope you're still thinking it when the EC comes out. 

[MisterJB]

Tealjaker94 wrote...
Using the word "offer" implies a choice. You don't "offer" anyone anything, you force a change upon them on the most fundamental level, one that you just admitted doesn't truly solve the problem. If they don't like it then too bad, you obviously know better than them.

You can't truly solve the problem because the problem is life itself.
Synthesis, at the very least, offers progress and advancement to all races and it can; note, can; bring organics and synthetics closer. These are good goals.
That we couldn't ask people if they wanted it is unfortunate but it might be for the best. This way, no one will be left behind. As far as Synthesis goes at least.

[MisterJB]

HellishFiend wrote...
A hallmark of indoctrination

Ah, Indocrination.
How quickly those who have no arguments resort to that word.

[Jadebaby]

HellishFiend wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...


Believe me, I troll in real life ALL the time. But I'll look to liking if looking liking do.

Perspicacity has never been the ITs strong point, and neither has verisimilitude.

Look out everyone, the internet tough guy has armed himself with a thesaurus and a dictionary. Next he's going to wow us with his education background and credentials. 

Now you're both trolling.

While I agree with Taboo that perspicacity is rather absent in IT, remember that 'apparently' only Casey and Mac wrote the endings. Maybe they were truly the only ones who actually planned IT to stop it being leaked. On the other hand,  verisimilitude is synonymous with probabilty, likelihood and plausibility, which are all very much alive in the IT. So you're wrong there.

Hellish, what happened to ignoring this sort of thing?

[Tealjaker94]

MisterJB wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...
Using the word "offer" implies a choice. You don't "offer" anyone anything, you force a change upon them on the most fundamental level, one that you just admitted doesn't truly solve the problem. If they don't like it then too bad, you obviously know better than them.

You can't truly solve the problem because the problem is life itself.
Synthesis, at the very least, offers progress and advancement to all races and it can; note, can; bring organics and synthetics closer. These are good goals.
That we couldn't ask people if they wanted it is unfortunate but it might be for the best. This way, no one will be left behind. As far as Synthesis goes at least.

I guess we have different ideas when it comes to free will and consent. I'd rather allow everyone to continue as they are than force such a change upon anyone. If you disagree, well that's your choice. Just don't expect my vote if you ever run for office.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

covertdrizzt wrote...

I think its hilarious when people sympathise with the reapers. Anyone ever heard of stockholm syndrome? LOL

^^^^This.

There is no sympathy for them from this human, none whatsoever.

They(reapers) have shown me no reason to accept their terms, on the contrary however, they have shown me just how abhorant their behaviour towards life(in all its splendor and chaos), is nonsense.

They were incorrectly programmed into existence, and therefore should be destroyed. FULLSTOP! 

[Taboo]

I'm referring to verisimilitude in the context of narrative form. It doesn't make sense, nor will it ever. I can only think of one film that repeats a previously established narrative by doing the exact thing over again, and that was Three Resurrected Drunkards. Bioware is not Nagisa Oshima, I'm sorry.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Using Javik as evidence is funny, because he indicates very clearly that he believes the exact same thing as the Catalyst.

"There is room for only one order in the galaxy. The chaos of organics, or the perfection of machines."

[Taboo]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Using Javik as evidence is funny, because he indicates very clearly that he believes the exact same thing as the Catalyst.

"There is room for only one order in the galaxy. The chaos of organics, or the perfection of machines."

My response.

[covertdrizzt]

guacamayus wrote...

covertdrizzt wrote...

guacamayus wrote...

are you saying that synthesis has anything to do with what the reapers did to the collectors? because that's incredibly absurd, the collectors were husks, nothing more.

synthesis is what they did to Saren.

saren was implanted with reaper tech, synthesis changes everyone at a molecular level. Completly different things.

Saren "Organic and machine itertwined, a union of flesh and steel" sounds like synthesis to me.  I guess we'll have to disagree on that.

[justafan]

MisterJB wrote...

Have you seen the geth? In their childhood, they drove their creators from their worlds. Their dreadnoughts are already larger and better equipped than ours only 300 years after their birth. They expansion is limitated only by available resources.
They advance at a much faster rate than us and more advanced species don't take into account the well being of less advanced species when planning their expansion. Just look at how humans treat the fauna on our planet.

And the Geth were about to be wiped out by a ragtag fleet of an organic species of only 17 million.

Also, one could argue the Humanity's rate of advancement is more rapid still than the Geth.  In 1/10 of the time Humanity went from new kid on the galactic block to arguably the 3rd most powerful force in the Milky Way.

There is nothing special about the Geth, and the game goes to great length to show that they are just as flawed as the rest of us, but also open to peace as well.  Further reason to distrust anything the starchild says about a catastrophic singularity.

Modifié par justafan, 16 juin 2012 - 09:46 .

[Jadebaby]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Occam's Razor suggests the obvious. They messed up.

You're in denial and in a few months everyone will know how how foolish all the IT things were. It's fun idea, but one born of confirmation bias and denial.

For some people I agree it is born from confirmation bias, but to a lot of people it's not. The fact people questioned whether the kid at the start of the game was real or not when they played the ME3 demo... Rules out a lot of confirmation bias, the pieces are there, you don't necessarily have to look, just pay attention.

Basically, confirmation bias is a heavily individualistic thing that can't be generalized to all of ITers.
Me personally don't consider myself confirmation biased because while I still believe in IT, I do accept the notion that there are other explanations, example: bad writing.