78 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

Drakesporn?

[Teddie Sage]

Hawke wasn't a grey warden and still managed to kill those darkspawn.

Think about those companions who didn't need to be a warden to kill those fiends, they still manage to survive. The only person who got the plague, I can think of is Wesley.

Besides, there won't be another Blight before a long time unless the writers say so.

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 17 juin 2012 - 01:10 .

[ev76]

Well in da2 if you take Bethany or carver to the deep roads expedition they get exposed to the taint and if you don't take anders. Well they die. Another thing to take into account is the architect and talking darkspawn, they might play a part in the next game. Oh and there is Cory too so I think the wardens might be needed in the end to save the world from itself.

[TonberryFeye]

Teddie Sage wrote...

More like irrelevant in the actual plot. They're not really required in the Mages & Templars war.

The plot of Dragon Age is centred around the Grey Wardens and the Darkspawn - Mages and Templars are the ones who are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things... or did you make the hillarious mistake of buying DA2 without playing (the vastly superior) Origins?

[Teddie Sage]

TonberryFeye wrote...

Teddie Sage wrote...

More like irrelevant in the actual plot. They're not really required in the Mages & Templars war.

The plot of Dragon Age is centred around the Grey Wardens and the Darkspawn - Mages and Templars are the ones who are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things... or did you make the hillarious mistake of buying DA2 without playing (the vastly superior) Origins?

Wrong and wrong.

"Dragon Age is about Thedas and its people."

The Grey Wardens are not the entirety of Thedas' population. They're just a tiny fraction of all Thedas has to show to the people who play, read, participate in that huge universe. So the Grey Wardens aren't required (or a must) for the sequel, they're not essential but still could be used, they're not completely worthless. The point is, the whole Dragon Age world doesn't turn around the Grey Wardens.

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 17 juin 2012 - 10:05 .

[Orian Tabris]

Grey Wardens are not worthless, because they are the only ones who can kill an Archdemon outright. Case closed.
If I had been a moderator/developer, this thread would of been locked by now.

[Orian Tabris]

TonberryFeye wrote...

Teddie Sage wrote...

More like irrelevant in the actual plot. They're not really required in the Mages & Templars war.

The plot of Dragon Age is centred around the Grey Wardens and the Darkspawn - Mages and Templars are the ones who are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things... or did you make the hillarious mistake of buying DA2 without playing (the vastly superior) Origins?

She's right you know. Dragon Age is not centred around the Grey Wardens, it's centred around the people of Thedas.

YOU clearly, didn't get the point of Dragon Age 2. That Dragon Age is about the people of Thedas, including mages and templars, not the Grey Wardens that inhabit Thedas. Get your facts straight before criticising others. She obviously has played Origins, because she said and I /quote: "Think about those companions who didn't need to be a warden to kill those fiends, they still manage to survive." You imbecilic, moron (slash troll).

Sorry for double-posting. x_x

Modifié par Orian Tabris, 18 juin 2012 - 12:20 .

[Teddie Sage]

I'm a guy, Orian. But thank you for taking my defence.
Nelly Brosca is happy you defended her player's honor.

[MagmaSaiyan]

it weirdly does make sense though, i mean why put the Warden and the other two at risk when, after Ostagar still have at least 1 warden left, and what do you do? protect him at all cost, and if someone manages to catch the taint, (now not fluent on DA lore) all they have to do is drink the blood, and some magic and what not. but really if thats the case why not have people just be normal and fight darkspawn and then catch it, rather than possibly dying on the spot by drinking it

[Orian Tabris]

Teddie Sage wrote...

I'm a guy, Orian. But thank you for taking my defence.
Nelly Brosca is happy you defended her player's honor.

Well, I was gonna mention that I was basing my assumption of your gender, on your avatar, but I changed my mind (I cannot remember why).

I hate idiots who think they're better (or know better) than you, just because their opinion is different. Plus, I like making references to T.V. shows. =p

Modifié par Orian Tabris, 18 juin 2012 - 06:59 .

[Chipaway111]

Just adding my useless two cents here...

I adored being a Grey Warden because it wasn't just 'uber-powerful-paragon-of-ass-kicking' (though that was part of it) that made me love playing as one, but also because ultimately they sacrifice everything about their life for others. The same can obviously be argued for any soldier but the Wardens are picked from amongst the strongest, toughest, and smartest warriors, then handed the tools to kill an Archdemon.

And did anyone pick up on the word 'GREY' in Grey Warden? I always suspected it was because they really would stop at nothing to end a blight. The only order to allow blood magic and willing to look the other way if a few innocents die to save the many. There's no black and white for Grey Wardens, they're always in the middle/grey area and this allows them to make decisions other orders ethically couldn't.

So yeah, I'll just stop tying now :3

[Jerrybnsn]

To the outside world of Thedas, the Grey Wardens are just an elite group of fighters taken from the best that inspires awe, respect and suspicion amongst the populations. Sort of like if the Navy Seals acted independently from the U.S. government, not under the authourity of the president or Congress oversight. To the world of Thedas, they are the guardians of life always vigil in their defense, but a lot of people and high ranking officials (like Loghain) distrust their motives and feel the same way as this poster does. "Why do we need Grey Wardens, when anyone can can fight the darkspawn and why must they act independently? The world would be better off without these useless warriors living off the governments and people of Thedas." Yet at the same time, they have to recognize that Wardens don't succumb to the taint.

Once recruited to the Grey Wardens, the new members go through a shock of what they sacrifice in order to join this elite organization and ask themselves the same question as this poster. "Why did I have to take this taint only to shorten my lifespan? Why must I be able to sense the darkspawn if it means dying young and having terrible dreams?"

The main reason for the Joining Ritual is 1) allowing themselves to actually kill the archdeamon so that its soul doesn't transfer to the next darkspawn.  Every Warden must have this so as to be ready as say in what happened in Origins were the Wardens were wiped out and no one knew the ritual or had the means to enact it. 2) not succumbing to the taint  also allows the Wardens to gain experience fighting darkspawn without having their numbers reduced significantly; thereby keeping them as a strong force of defense against the darkspawn.

edit:  And children of Thedas were Grey Warden jammies.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 18 juin 2012 - 09:11 .

[Melca36]

Teddie Sage wrote...

TonberryFeye wrote...

Teddie Sage wrote...

More like irrelevant in the actual plot. They're not really required in the Mages & Templars war.

The plot of Dragon Age is centred around the Grey Wardens and the Darkspawn - Mages and Templars are the ones who are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things... or did you make the hillarious mistake of buying DA2 without playing (the vastly superior) Origins?

Wrong and wrong.

"Dragon Age is about Thedas and its people."

The Grey Wardens are not the entirety of Thedas' population. They're just a tiny fraction of all Thedas has to show to the people who play, read, participate in that huge universe. So the Grey Wardens aren't required (or a must) for the sequel, they're not essential but still could be used, they're not completely worthless. The point is, the whole Dragon Age world doesn't turn around the Grey Wardens.

Developers have already said that there would be Wardens in the next game though so I think we should be expecting them.  The next game won't be about them but they will have a presence. Its possible one could be a companion.

I'd personally love a Warden Carver companion :wizard:

[Teddie Sage]

I already knew that but I was saying that it's about Thedas and it's people. Not only about the Wardens. Personally, I'd love it if the Hawke siblings came back and were made romanceable. If I can't have have my Hawke back, might as well date his brother or his sister. LOL

[Asepsis]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

To the outside world of Thedas, the Grey Wardens are just an elite group of fighters taken from the best that inspires awe, respect and suspicion amongst the populations. Sort of like if the Navy Seals acted independently from the U.S. government, not under the authourity of the president or Congress oversight. To the world of Thedas, they are the guardians of life always vigil in their defense, but a lot of people and high ranking officials (like Loghain) distrust their motives and feel the same way as this poster does. "Why do we need Grey Wardens, when anyone can can fight the darkspawn and why must they act independently? The world would be better off without these useless warriors living off the governments and people of Thedas." Yet at the same time, they have to recognize that Wardens don't succumb to the taint.

Once recruited to the Grey Wardens, the new members go through a shock of what they sacrifice in order to join this elite organization and ask themselves the same question as this poster. "Why did I have to take this taint only to shorten my lifespan? Why must I be able to sense the darkspawn if it means dying young and having terrible dreams?"

The main reason for the Joining Ritual is 1) allowing themselves to actually kill the archdeamon so that its soul doesn't transfer to the next darkspawn.  Every Warden must have this so as to be ready as say in what happened in Origins were the Wardens were wiped out and no one knew the ritual or had the means to enact it. 2) not succumbing to the taint  also allows the Wardens to gain experience fighting darkspawn without having their numbers reduced significantly; thereby keeping them as a strong force of defense against the darkspawn.

edit:  And children of Thedas were Grey Warden jammies.

Jerrybnsn sums it up nicely.

Also we can't forget that the Wardens have to constantly be on guard because you never know when some darkspawn will find another arch demon and the whole thing will start again. I guess once the last arch demon/dark spawn is killed off the Wardens will be unnecessary at that point.
Warden's aren't useless at all, and neither are their abilities. I saw their abilities of sensing/being sensed by darkspawn as a good thing. It doesn't make them seem too mary sue. It's a usefull ability, but also a weakness. Also, like DA:O mentions, the older Wardens can actually start to understand the darkspawn, which can give them insights into the enemies motives which would help to better fight them.

Mostly though I got the impression that their main purpose was to make sure the arch demons are completely destroyed.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

 Also, I seem to remember reading that they moonlight as diplomats when there isn't a Blight going on. They're politically neutral, or supposed to be (Alistair) so everybody trusts them to mediate disputes. Then there's the fact that the Wardens are immensely skilled fighters specializing in the darkspawn that occasionally try to destroy the world.

But the biggest point has already been made: they can kill archdemons. Sensing the darkspawn and being good at killing them is useful, but that doesn't make them essential. If the Warden says he thought that was why Grey Wardens are neccesary, Riordan himself responds that "If that were the case, any skilled warriors might suffice." (Of course, there is a world of difference between being unneccesary and useless, and I would not be surprised to find that TheButterflyEffect really is a troll.) At any rate, the counterargument that putting people through the Joining on the spot after first completely incapacitating the Archdemon is way too complicated. There is way too much that can go wrong there, not the least of which is that the Archdemon might snap the restraints or regenerate the wounds (whichever is used.) Remember that the archdemon we see in-game was flying relatively short distances shortly after having a wing ventilated. Even in the unlikely event that it was possible to tie it down perfectly, or wound it such that it cannot move and cannot regenerate quickly enough, it can and will call for reinforcements. The reason humanity won the battle for Denerim was that the drakesporn {sic} defaulted when Urthemiel died.

[valentine3]

The Grey wardens are a pillar of the dragon age story.

http://www.neoseeker...n-age-gamescom/

So no they're not worthless.I think there is alot more to the grey wardens,than we know.There is alway a chance for another blight especially with characters such as Corypheus and the Architect.

[Emzamination]

The grey wardens are necessary to defeat the blights but I strongly believe they should be forcibly disbanded after the last arch demon lyes dead.Their order is built on deceit and betrayal veiled with honor and sacrifice.A recruit is told all they have to do is show martial skill and survive drinking darkspawn blood which they are warned about it possibly killing them and that's fine.What's not cool however is telling the recruit afterwards that the blood contract they just signed had some small print and they're going to die in 20/30 years and oh by the way I hope you had children because if not your bloodline dies with you, all in the same of sacrifice of course.

The problem is sacrifice is suppose to be a choice, its not something your deceived into.Alistair says in origins that when duncan told him he was going to die he was furious but then duncan put his hands on his shoulder and told him "It's not how you die but how you live", I don't want to hear that.Quite frankly I'm surprised the grey wardens exist at all because I personally would've jumped ship first chance I got after realizing i'd been lied to, sod it.

[Kelgair]

brushyourteeth wrote...

My mage (who would have been stuck in a Tower till she died in anonymity if she hadn't been conscripted and still wouldn't have been allowed to have kids or a committed relationship) would argue that it's pretty cool being a Warden.

Yep. Pass the Joining juice, please.

Well, the mage probably would've only lived another month or so considering the tower was garunteed to be annuled without the warden PC showing up. So yeah, pass the Joining juice. I'd down it Oghren style.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Emzamination wrote...

The grey wardens are necessary to defeat the blights but I strongly believe they should be forcibly disbanded after the last arch demon lyes dead.Their order is built on deceit and betrayal veiled with honor and sacrifice.A recruit is told all they have to do is show martial skill and survive drinking darkspawn blood which they are warned about it possibly killing them and that's fine.What's not cool however is telling the recruit afterwards that the blood contract they just signed had some small print and they're going to die in 20/30 years and oh by the way I hope you had children because if not your bloodline dies with you, all in the same of sacrifice of course.

The problem is sacrifice is suppose to be a choice, its not something your deceived into.Alistair says in origins that when duncan told him he was going to die he was furious but then duncan put his hands on his shoulder and told him "It's not how you die but how you live", I don't want to hear that.Quite frankly I'm surprised the grey wardens exist at all because I personally would've jumped ship first chance I got after realizing i'd been lied to, sod it.

Judging by the Codex, nobody knows for sure that the archdemons really are the Old Gods. And if that's not true, it calls into question the notion that there will only be seven Blights. (On the other hand, I haven't read the books. Apparently the Wardens know more than they're telling Thedas. Which does help drive home your point.) Still, even after the last archdemon dies, the darkspawn will still be a threat. Just, you know, not to the surface. (As much.)

[Androme]

Spoilers inbound:

The Wardens, in my opinion, were represented in all their glory in DAO, all of them strong and capable warriors. But in DA2 they were just made a joke, an example of that is for example how easily Hawke & Co obliterates a group of 4-5 Grey Wardens during the Legacy DLC. Or when asked to save Nathaniel Howe in the Deep Roads, as if he couldn't take care of himself, and then when you help him, only to find that ''all the Grey Wardens were killed by Darkspawn''. 

It's just so idiotic.

[Emzamination]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

The grey wardens are necessary to defeat the blights but I strongly believe they should be forcibly disbanded after the last arch demon lyes dead.Their order is built on deceit and betrayal veiled with honor and sacrifice.A recruit is told all they have to do is show martial skill and survive drinking darkspawn blood which they are warned about it possibly killing them and that's fine.What's not cool however is telling the recruit afterwards that the blood contract they just signed had some small print and they're going to die in 20/30 years and oh by the way I hope you had children because if not your bloodline dies with you, all in the same of sacrifice of course.

The problem is sacrifice is suppose to be a choice, its not something your deceived into.Alistair says in origins that when duncan told him he was going to die he was furious but then duncan put his hands on his shoulder and told him "It's not how you die but how you live", I don't want to hear that.Quite frankly I'm surprised the grey wardens exist at all because I personally would've jumped ship first chance I got after realizing i'd been lied to, sod it.

Judging by the Codex, nobody knows for sure that the archdemons really are the Old Gods. And if that's not true, it calls into question the notion that there will only be seven Blights. (On the other hand, I haven't read the books. Apparently the Wardens know more than they're telling Thedas. Which does help drive home your point.) Still, even after the last archdemon dies, the darkspawn will still be a threat. Just, you know, not to the surface. (As much.)

The Architect & morrigan confirm the Archdemons are definitely the old gods.Once the last Archdemon is dead, the remaining grey wardens will become nothing but specialized fodder as normal men/women are capable of killing regular Darkspawn.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Emzamination wrote...

The Architect & morrigan confirm the Archdemons are definitely the old gods.Once the last Archdemon is dead, the remaining grey wardens will become nothing but specialized fodder as normal men/women are capable of killing regular Darkspawn.

I would hardly describe the Wardens as fodder. They're supposed to be capable of taking on a (normal) force much larger than they are. (Or at least, I got that impression from Tv Tropes.)

At any rate, the Wardens could still do the negotiation thing I described above, as well as going down below to take out darkspawn. They're still a threat to Orzammar even without an Archdemon, (when they find one, some of the dwarves are relieved: it starts putting some pressure on the surface, so the dwarves can catch a break. Bet they were ticked off when it ended after one year.) And if Orzammar falls, the drakesporn are a threat to everyone else instead.

Edit: As for the dwarves handling it themselves... they're trying. It's failing. Frankly, the Wardens should be concentrating on defending Orzammar more heavily.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 19 juin 2012 - 02:46 .