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[Emzamination]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

The Architect & morrigan confirm the Archdemons are definitely the old gods.Once the last Archdemon is dead, the remaining grey wardens will become nothing but specialized fodder as normal men/women are capable of killing regular Darkspawn.

I would hardly describe the Wardens as fodder. They're supposed to be capable of taking on a (normal) force much larger than they are. (Or at least, I got that impression from Tv Tropes.)

At any rate, the Wardens could still do the negotiation thing I described above, as well as going down below to take out darkspawn. They're still a threat to Orzammar even without an Archdemon, (when they find one, some of the dwarves are relieved: it starts putting some pressure on the surface, so the dwarves can catch a break. Bet they were ticked off when it ended after one year.) And if Orzammar falls, the drakesporn are a threat to everyone else instead.

Edit: As for the dwarves handling it themselves... they're trying. It's failing. Frankly, the Wardens should be concentrating on defending Orzammar more heavily.

True, the wardens are suppose to be some of the best warriors in thedas but their martial skill is innate and doesn't come from the taint.I don't think I'd be comfortable with wardens playing diplomats and governers, I heard what goes on in the anderfells.I agree that the wardens should focus their attention on orzammar and maybe intergrate the LotD into them as a subsect.They could also reclaim the fallen fortress bownamar down in the deeps as a base of operations right in the heart of the darkspawn's lands.Come to think of it...why don't the wardens have a base in the deep roads? The main problem I have with the wardens is the joining ritual but its necessary to invibe Darkspawn blood to kill an archdemon but once those are no more I believe the ritual should be outlawed or the wardens should be completely open about the whole dieing thing.

[Emzamination]

Nizaris1 wrote...

i just thinking...if darkspawn poison blood is so feared, why fight them in melee? Shoot them with arrows, blow up them with spells. Problem solved.

In the end, need only 1 Warden to kill Archdemon, and this Warden can survive by doing some ritual with a witch.

I've thought on this as well...why not train some juggernaut soldier in massive armor like the big daddies in bioshock complete with grenades and other heavy weapons to wade into the thick of the darkspawn or better yet...put a mage into that armor and let them rain infinite fire and lightning down on huge mobs while taking minimal to no damage.Yes...dragon age needs super soldiers.

[Emzamination]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

I've thought on this as well...why not train some juggernaut soldier in massive armor like the big daddies in bioshock complete with grenades and other heavy weapons to wade into the thick of the darkspawn or better yet...put a mage into that armor and let them rain infinite fire and lightning down on huge mobs while taking minimal to no damage.Yes...dragon age needs super soldiers.

Oh, don't forget, they can make bombs from lyrium, and in DA2 Qunari have gun powder, they should use guns and canons, in the future, they should make tanks. They also should use some air support, no need to fight on land

Qunari powder launchers and guns/tanks that fired Silverite would make the wardens obsolete

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Nizaris1 wrote...

i just thinking...if darkspawn poison blood is so feared, why fight them in melee? Shoot them with arrows, blow up them with spells. Problem solved.

In the end, need only 1 Warden to kill Archdemon, and this Warden can survive by doing some ritual with a witch.

The ranged combat thing is a good idea. Having only one Warden? Not so much. The darkspawn could always force melee combat, so it's a good idea to have people who can go toe to toe with them. Not to mention that if there's only one Warden, the entire battle plan depends on having one person survive long enough to off a giant dragon. Conversely, the darkspawn battle plan depends on that dragon surviving. Which one sounds like the sounder plan? Not only is it much easier to kill a human than a dragon, the Archdemon doesn't care how the Warden dies. If the Archdemon kills him personally, okay. If a shriek or an ogre does it, also okay. Also, if all else fails, the dragon can fly away. If the Warden needs to fly away from an engagement, he's screwed.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 19 juin 2012 - 03:57 .

[Lasien]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

The grey wardens are necessary to defeat the blights but I strongly believe they should be forcibly disbanded after the last arch demon lyes dead.Their order is built on deceit and betrayal veiled with honor and sacrifice.A recruit is told all they have to do is show martial skill and survive drinking darkspawn blood which they are warned about it possibly killing them and that's fine.What's not cool however is telling the recruit afterwards that the blood contract they just signed had some small print and they're going to die in 20/30 years and oh by the way I hope you had children because if not your bloodline dies with you, all in the same of sacrifice of course.

The problem is sacrifice is suppose to be a choice, its not something your deceived into.Alistair says in origins that when duncan told him he was going to die he was furious but then duncan put his hands on his shoulder and told him "It's not how you die but how you live", I don't want to hear that.Quite frankly I'm surprised the grey wardens exist at all because I personally would've jumped ship first chance I got after realizing i'd been lied to, sod it.

Judging by the Codex, nobody knows for sure that the archdemons really are the Old Gods. And if that's not true, it calls into question the notion that there will only be seven Blights. (On the other hand, I haven't read the books. Apparently the Wardens know more than they're telling Thedas. Which does help drive home your point.) Still, even after the last archdemon dies, the darkspawn will still be a threat. Just, you know, not to the surface. (As much.)

Thank you! I was under this impression as well. No-one is really sure if the archdemons were actually old gods or not, or even if the old gods were simply ancient dragons or something more. So for game purposes, there could be innumerable archdemons - should the writers decide that the old gods were just really old, intelligent dragons.

I would like to know what the Wardens know that they aren't telling, as I have not read the books, and am having issues finding the pertinent info on the wiki. I might be wrong. [Edit] I found all the dragon age books on the wiki, and unless there are large plot points that have been omitted, I didn't see anything that clarified the old gods.

Also, technically, no-one knows if the archdemon bonding with a warden destroys them both completely, or if it goes into the fade as a sort of abomination - which could be brought back...

Modifié par Lasien, 19 juin 2012 - 05:18 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lasien wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

The grey wardens are necessary to defeat the blights but I strongly believe they should be forcibly disbanded after the last arch demon lyes dead.Their order is built on deceit and betrayal veiled with honor and sacrifice.A recruit is told all they have to do is show martial skill and survive drinking darkspawn blood which they are warned about it possibly killing them and that's fine.What's not cool however is telling the recruit afterwards that the blood contract they just signed had some small print and they're going to die in 20/30 years and oh by the way I hope you had children because if not your bloodline dies with you, all in the same of sacrifice of course.

The problem is sacrifice is suppose to be a choice, its not something your deceived into.Alistair says in origins that when duncan told him he was going to die he was furious but then duncan put his hands on his shoulder and told him "It's not how you die but how you live", I don't want to hear that.Quite frankly I'm surprised the grey wardens exist at all because I personally would've jumped ship first chance I got after realizing i'd been lied to, sod it.

Judging by the Codex, nobody knows for sure that the archdemons really are the Old Gods. And if that's not true, it calls into question the notion that there will only be seven Blights. (On the other hand, I haven't read the books. Apparently the Wardens know more than they're telling Thedas. Which does help drive home your point.) Still, even after the last archdemon dies, the darkspawn will still be a threat. Just, you know, not to the surface. (As much.)

Thank you! I was under this impression as well. No-one is really sure if the archdemons were actually old gods or not, or even if the old gods were simply ancient dragons or something more. So for game purposes, there could be innumerable archdemons - should the writers decide that the old gods were just really old, intelligent dragons.

I would like to know what the Wardens know that they aren't telling, as I have not read the books, and am having issues finding the pertinent info on the wiki. I might be wrong. [Edit] I found all the dragon age books on the wiki, and unless there are large plot points that have been omitted, I didn't see anything that clarified the old gods.

I'm sorry, I should have come right out and said this...The impression I'm under is that not only do the Wardens know that the Archdemons are corrupted Old Gods, they know exactly where to look. I think I remember reading that a Warden who was in the process of giving in to the taint was the one who told the Architect where to look to find Urthemiel. So, if my impression is correct (not 100% on that one) that means the Wardens could safely disband two blights from now. Or, better yet, they could move to Orzammar, seeing as that's where they'll be more needed.

Also, technically, no-one knows if the archdemon bonding with a warden destroys them both completely, or if it goes into the fade as a sort of abomination - which could be brought back...

Well, I'm going to have nightmares tonight. Thanks for that, jerk.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 19 juin 2012 - 02:36 .

[Silfren]

Lasien wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

The grey wardens are necessary to defeat the blights but I strongly believe they should be forcibly disbanded after the last arch demon lyes dead.Their order is built on deceit and betrayal veiled with honor and sacrifice.A recruit is told all they have to do is show martial skill and survive drinking darkspawn blood which they are warned about it possibly killing them and that's fine.What's not cool however is telling the recruit afterwards that the blood contract they just signed had some small print and they're going to die in 20/30 years and oh by the way I hope you had children because if not your bloodline dies with you, all in the same of sacrifice of course.

The problem is sacrifice is suppose to be a choice, its not something your deceived into.Alistair says in origins that when duncan told him he was going to die he was furious but then duncan put his hands on his shoulder and told him "It's not how you die but how you live", I don't want to hear that.Quite frankly I'm surprised the grey wardens exist at all because I personally would've jumped ship first chance I got after realizing i'd been lied to, sod it.

Judging by the Codex, nobody knows for sure that the archdemons really are the Old Gods. And if that's not true, it calls into question the notion that there will only be seven Blights. (On the other hand, I haven't read the books. Apparently the Wardens know more than they're telling Thedas. Which does help drive home your point.) Still, even after the last archdemon dies, the darkspawn will still be a threat. Just, you know, not to the surface. (As much.)

Thank you! I was under this impression as well. No-one is really sure if the archdemons were actually old gods or not, or even if the old gods were simply ancient dragons or something more. So for game purposes, there could be innumerable archdemons - should the writers decide that the old gods were just really old, intelligent dragons.

I would like to know what the Wardens know that they aren't telling, as I have not read the books, and am having issues finding the pertinent info on the wiki. I might be wrong. [Edit] I found all the dragon age books on the wiki, and unless there are large plot points that have been omitted, I didn't see anything that clarified the old gods.

Also, technically, no-one knows if the archdemon bonding with a warden destroys them both completely, or if it goes into the fade as a sort of abomination - which could be brought back...

I think the last point is one on which we are clear, actually.  The lore is NOT that an archdemon "bonds" with a Warden.  Rather, the archdemon's soul travels through the taint looking for the nearest shell to inhabit.   Without a Grey Warden handy, the nearest available shell connected to the archdemon through the taint is a darkspawn, and darkspawn have no souls to interfere with the archdemon's, so the archdemon soul takes up residence and is essentially reborn.  In the case of the Warden, that body is already pre-inhabited with a soul, so when the archdemon soul tries to fill that Warden's body, both souls are destroyed.  There's no bonding to be had.  And there's not so much as a hint anywhere in the lore to provide basis for what you suggest, of a Fade-abomination.  Speculations are great, but they work best when they arise from actual lore, and not just because someone tosses out a random idea.  =P

[Lasien]

Silfren wrote...

Lasien wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

The grey wardens are necessary to defeat the blights but I strongly believe they should be forcibly disbanded after the last arch demon lyes dead.Their order is built on deceit and betrayal veiled with honor and sacrifice.A recruit is told all they have to do is show martial skill and survive drinking darkspawn blood which they are warned about it possibly killing them and that's fine.What's not cool however is telling the recruit afterwards that the blood contract they just signed had some small print and they're going to die in 20/30 years and oh by the way I hope you had children because if not your bloodline dies with you, all in the same of sacrifice of course.

The problem is sacrifice is suppose to be a choice, its not something your deceived into.Alistair says in origins that when duncan told him he was going to die he was furious but then duncan put his hands on his shoulder and told him "It's not how you die but how you live", I don't want to hear that.Quite frankly I'm surprised the grey wardens exist at all because I personally would've jumped ship first chance I got after realizing i'd been lied to, sod it.

Judging by the Codex, nobody knows for sure that the archdemons really are the Old Gods. And if that's not true, it calls into question the notion that there will only be seven Blights. (On the other hand, I haven't read the books. Apparently the Wardens know more than they're telling Thedas. Which does help drive home your point.) Still, even after the last archdemon dies, the darkspawn will still be a threat. Just, you know, not to the surface. (As much.)

Thank you! I was under this impression as well. No-one is really sure if the archdemons were actually old gods or not, or even if the old gods were simply ancient dragons or something more. So for game purposes, there could be innumerable archdemons - should the writers decide that the old gods were just really old, intelligent dragons.

I would like to know what the Wardens know that they aren't telling, as I have not read the books, and am having issues finding the pertinent info on the wiki. I might be wrong. [Edit] I found all the dragon age books on the wiki, and unless there are large plot points that have been omitted, I didn't see anything that clarified the old gods.

Also, technically, no-one knows if the archdemon bonding with a warden destroys them both completely, or if it goes into the fade as a sort of abomination - which could be brought back...

I think the last point is one on which we are clear, actually.  The lore is NOT that an archdemon "bonds" with a Warden.  Rather, the archdemon's soul travels through the taint looking for the nearest shell to inhabit.   Without a Grey Warden handy, the nearest available shell connected to the archdemon through the taint is a darkspawn, and darkspawn have no souls to interfere with the archdemon's, so the archdemon soul takes up residence and is essentially reborn.  In the case of the Warden, that body is already pre-inhabited with a soul, so when the archdemon soul tries to fill that Warden's body, both souls are destroyed.  There's no bonding to be had.  And there's not so much as a hint anywhere in the lore to provide basis for what you suggest, of a Fade-abomination.  Speculations are great, but they work best when they arise from actual lore, and not just because someone tosses out a random idea.  =P

What I was trying to imply is that the writers could use that as an excuse to bring back dead wardens, or even to create a new archdemon. The only Old god soul we know of for sure is the old god baby - if the ritual was done. The writing would not even require a real retcon, as the codex is (for the most part) from the understanding of the characters and could thereby be flawed.

Oh, and by the way, I apologize for using a word you disapproved of. Goodness me, that was just horrible! <_< 

[Jerrybnsn]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

 At any rate, the counterargument that putting people through the Joining on the spot after first completely incapacitating the Archdemon is way too complicated. ....

And there is the issue that you won't be able to sense darkspawn right away.  The taint has to settle in for some unspecified period of time.  Of course, there is the situation described by Morrigan that absorbing the old soul becomes more difficult the longer you have had the taint inside of you, because the taint has progressed you to a point of practically being a darkspawn yourself.  That's why she said she preferred not to do the ritual with Riodan and wanted you or Alistair to assure the success of that ritual.  Too bad for Riodan. Unless.....da! da! duhn!

[tisoy13]

this totally doesn't make sense.... since when DAO is played stories goes like how the ritual goes blah blah blah..the taint the soul of the old god....blah blah etc..... no spoiler.......no offens but what kind of english do u spoke?

Modifié par tisoy13, 20 juin 2012 - 12:14 .

[Jerrybnsn]

nevermind

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 20 juin 2012 - 12:10 .

[tisoy13]

trolling

Modifié par tisoy13, 20 juin 2012 - 12:14 .

[Jerrybnsn]

tisoy13 wrote...

this totally doesn't make sense.... since when DAO is played stories goes like how the ritual goes blah blah blah..the taint the soul of the old god....blah blah etc..... no spoiler.......no offens but what kind of english do u spoke?

Sorry.  Just to be clear,  you find the Grey Wardens as a unique class of warriors with purpose in the DA universe?

[tisoy13]

yup.....

[Jerrybnsn]

me too!

[tisoy13]

dude my first comment......is for the author of this topic.....since DAO explains its story as you progress....so my point is Gray wardens play an important role...since taint of old god is absorbed..etc..so on and so forth...[no spoiler]


obviously the Author of this is just trolling around...

Modifié par tisoy13, 20 juin 2012 - 12:25 .

[Jerrybnsn]

tisoy13 wrote...

dude my first comment......is for the author of this topic.....since DAO explains its story as you progress....so my point is Gray wardens play an important role...since taint of old god is absorbed..etc..so on and so forth...[no spoiler]


obviously the Author of this is just trolling around...

I think the OP has a feeling of contempt for the Grey Wardens and seriously doesn't want to see that aspect of Dragon Age touch upon again.  It seems a lot of fans of DA2 hold this same view.  Just like in the game, the Grey Wardens are held in suspicion and are derided.  But when a blight breaks out, it's "Save me Warden! Save Me!"  That last blight had no effect on the rest of Thedas except for some refugees, so I expect Orlaisians to hold the same view that Wardens are a worthless class.

[tisoy13]

gotcha!

It could be that he played Dragon Age 2 first before DAO......? I dunno why others failed to see the essence of Gray wardens.......and why the Game is titled [DRAGON] Age

[Fast Jimmy]

^
HA! It seems the fans of DA2 have forgotten about the Grey Wardens, and the risk the Blights present to us all.

Maker preserve us all.

[tisoy13]

When i tried the Dragon Age 2 i was seriously disappointed.... the story and some stuff does not appeal to me, [the mage battle system is the only one i liked]..though..The first one is still the best...DAO my cup of tea

[Jerrybnsn]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^
HA! It seems the fans of DA2 have forgotten about the Grey Wardens, and the risk the Blights present to us all.

Maker preserve us all.

Maker preserve us.

[tisoy13]

andraste's ass....some are just trolling around, same as me
and Maker burn those who does not believe in Gray Wardens..amen

Modifié par tisoy13, 20 juin 2012 - 01:22 .

[Ghidorah14]

"Those who once called us heros...have forgotten."

The OP disappoints me.

Being able to sense darkspawn is pointless? Yeah, who wants to know where the horde is going or be able to sense ambushes? Or hey, while were at it, WHO THE HELL WANTS TO BE IMMUNE TO THE BLIGHT? Yeah, just let the corruption kill you and everyone around you. SLOWLY AND PAINFULLY. Thats what all the cool kids are doing, right?