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Score Still Matters.


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#26
Cayse

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jordie3000 wrote...

THIS. This is why I don't feel bad if I score lower than everyone else as an SE, because dude I kept that dang decoy up and without that decoy life would've been much less pleasant for all involved. Obviously one does not coast along just because one has a decoy, but still.


I'd pretty much forgotten, but my very first Gold was done with an SE. Full random, because that's honestly all I ever play. There was an infiltrator, another engineer, and some guy who left after he died fairly early on. My end score was really low, I spent the entire match in a slightly forward position keeping decoy out and hitting ED on cooldown.

At the end, we got a full extration, the other two guys said I had great positioning with my decoy and thanked me for sticking in the game.

#27
sw04ca

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Score is important. How else are you supposed to know that you're hardcore?

#28
AmicusHumaniGeneris

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Score mattering or not, it would be nice to have your impact on the damage recorded. Someone using a power that increases the other's damage by 20 % should get 20 % of the score to show their contribution. Won't solve all score issues, but it would help a little.

#29
Leisure Muffin

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Disciple888 wrote...

co-sign.

I've scored 100K+ with a variety of classes, many of which I've never used before. The fact that bad players who regularly use these classes score 20-40K (with a 40% XP boost!) and then call themselves "support" really baffles my mind.



You use GI + GPS  of course you score alot.  LOL   I love when people use OP'd classes and weapons, and then get all high horse about their score...

#30
ryoldschool

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Kinda funny as I have checked the scoreboard after wave 10 just for grins when I have had a particularly good game. On wave 11 there are a lot of points to get on rockets taking out multiple large targets when there is not too much on the line. Compare that to the rocket you used to take out the phantom that was wiping your squad out in the hack objective on wave 3. Sometimes its not how much you score, but when you score.

#31
sliverofamoon

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Score is a crap indicator of actual in-game performance, for all the reasons listed above. The only thing the IG scoreboard does in encourage already non team-players to continue to not do anything to help with objectives, IMO. In PUGS some of the highest scoring party memebers were the ones who didn't help wtih one single objective, but rather, just ran around trying to kill everything. Even if an objective was right at their feet, they just ignored it.

Edit: So..... yes. Score does matter....... in PUGS. It just shows you who doesn't care enough about team-play. Playing with friends is a different story. None of the people on my friends list will ignore objectives, or fail to guard those capping objectives.

Modifié par sliverofamoon, 16 juin 2012 - 10:45 .


#32
Anders028

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 My favorite is when someone plays Geth Infiltrator  and cant get over 30000 points.  Best player ever right there

#33
ReflectedRed

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Leisure Muffin wrote...

Disciple888 wrote...

co-sign.

I've scored 100K+ with a variety of classes, many of which I've never used before. The fact that bad players who regularly use these classes score 20-40K (with a 40% XP boost!) and then call themselves "support" really baffles my mind.



You use GI + GPS  of course you score alot.  LOL   I love when people use OP'd classes and weapons, and then get all high horse about their score...


I'm pretty sure he said "variety of classes", and I'm pretty sure that means something else than just GI. Nice logic you got there.

Modifié par ReflectedRed, 17 juin 2012 - 09:13 .


#34
regalsan

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Omega2079 wrote...

Yigorse wrote...

Your score at the end of the game is directly related to how much damage you did compared to the rest of your team.


I've been wondering about that.

Most of the time it seems consistent. Every now and again, especially if it's FBWGG there are times where I go to refill ammo, come back, blast a prime once or twice for the kill and I'll get 1300 or so points. I'm pretty sure I haven't previously attacked it. Other times I'll shoot one many times, but get relatively few points.

How well is the mechanic that award points known?

Maybe it's just lag, :? or I've had too much beer. :P


It's lag. You can never have too much beer. :sick:

Anyway, I think ME3 has enough multiplayer glitches that you can't be sure that any number means anything significant.

Modifié par regalsan, 16 juin 2012 - 10:51 .


#35
ericjdev

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Saying it matters doesn't make it so, it just means it matters to you. For me, not so much, I always like being in 1st but it doesn't make me think i'm better or contributed more than the guy in 2nd and it's not a great way to judge in game performance. I've seen so many tools leaves the team in the lurch on goal rounds because it's more important to them to run their score up. If they come in 1st is that supposed to justify their being a bad teammate. I'd kick them before i'd kick the guy in 4th who tried. So for me, maybe it matters a little but it's not on my top 5 list.

#36
JKTreb

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Score can matter, but the system is admittedly skewed toward damage dealing and kill shots. Yes, there are points awarded for 5/10/15 revives, and capping objectives, but someone's gotta do it.

A better way to judge your teammates' worth (and really, that's what everyone's using score to determine) is to actually pay attention to what they're doing IN ADDITION to doing your job. If there's an engineer spamming Cryo Blast to debuff armored targets to slow/freeze/weaken armor for the rest of the team to kill faster, they aren't going to have many points, but damn was that guy useful.

#37
Disciple888

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Leisure Muffin wrote...

Disciple888 wrote...

co-sign.

I've scored 100K+ with a variety of classes, many of which I've never used before. The fact that bad players who regularly use these classes score 20-40K (with a 40% XP boost!) and then call themselves "support" really baffles my mind.



You use GI + GPS  of course you score alot.  LOL   I love when people use OP'd classes and weapons, and then get all high horse about their score...


GI + GPS usually means 170-200K, tbh.

I was talking about Batarian Soldier, Quarian Engineer, Asari Adept, Krogan Sentinel, Human Sentinel, etc.  Lucius has seen me play with these chars, often for the first time, and easily clear 100K on U/U/G.  Not knowing anything about playstyle or whatever, just basic aggro management, rushdown, and judicious use of consumables.

#38
AldarionnEB

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Score only matters insofar as extremes are concerned, and it's less meaningful when you start taking into account biotic detonations, tech bursts, fire explosions, etc...

For example, if I play a Drell Adept and my friend plays a Human Vanguard who follows me around all game detonating my Reave, I'm going to get a significantly higher score than he is because it's MY biotic explosions that are causing all the damage, and I am the one getting all the points. But that doesn't mean I did any more work than he did or contributed more to the team. Similarly, if I use Disruptor Ammo on my gun and a friend playing a Salarian Engineer detonates my Tech Bursts with Energy Drain, it's the same situation. I'm going to end up way above the other player who is getting an assist share instead of a kill share because it was MY ammo that caused the damage.

That said, often times there are clear exceptions to this because one player ends up obviously carrying the match, and has a score that's tripple any other persons score, and they wouldn't have been able to complete the game without him. Of course, it should be evident that this is going on even without the numerical value of his points earned telling you this. I don't tend to look at score very often during a match, but I can usually tell by wave 5 or 6 if I'm going to be on top of the board or not, no matter what class I'm playing.

So that said, score does have SOME merit, but it cannot be taken on its own as a means of determining that a person should or should not be playing on Gold, or that one person carried the match. It's entirely possible for one player to have dominated a match but have a score significantly below the rest of the team. Just look at the Female Quarian Infiltrator. If she is set up for hacking, her backlash damage will kill most targets, but unless someone damages the target before the backlash does the job, she won't get any points for the kill. I soloed a Silver with one and finished with an extraction, but had less than 30k total points earned.

#39
MWaHa

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My opinion has always been thusly:

(1) It can be helpful to some extent, but only if you're using it as one evaluation among many. Score is a piece of data, and data are meant to be interpreted. People who dismiss score out of hand as completely useless are probably just as wrong as people who think that score = skill level. Score can be helpful if you're smart about how you interpret it.

(2) Score is probably most useful if your primary job is to deal direct, like soldiers, infiltrators, etc. If my engineer scores 50k, that might mean something, it might not. If my soldier scores 50k, then something is probably very, very wrong. I'm perfectly happy having a lower score if it's my primary job to distract elites or to detonate BEs or to soften up groups with my Falcon. If I have a low score on my Claymore infiltrator, on the other hand, . . .

Modifié par MWaHa, 16 juin 2012 - 10:55 .


#40
brian_breed

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Yigorse wrote...

 A popular response to the various threads about elitism, carrying, the Krysae and other topics related to how much you/your class/your weapon etc. pwns is that "score doesn't matter".

It does.

Your score at the end of the game is directly related to how much damage you did compared to the rest of your team.


Direct = no intermediate steps.

Admittedly, it is skewed slightly by the fact that killing blows seem to grant bonus score, and that the "big" enemies don't give score proportional to the amount of time and effort required to kill them.


You mention two intermediate steps.

Damage dealt + kill bonus + scaled damage against armor/barriers = score, by your own rationale.

That's not a direct relationship to damage dealt. If you're playing a Human Engineer and spending a lot of your time stripping shields/barriers or stunlocking your opponents, your score will be significantly lower than a Geth Infiltrator sporting a Widow X who headshots the trash you strip/stun. 


It's a question of scale really.  If your top scorer gets 150k+ and the next player has only 50k or so, not to mention those below, you can't explain that away by saying "I was playing a support role" or "I spent all my time getting the objectives.


That disparity very well CAN be explained by as simple a scenario as the one I detailed above. Or an Asari Adept who's using Stasis off CD during intense moments, while other players take advantage of stillled mobs. Or a Krogan Sentinel with a shotty protecting an Infiltrator's flank from Guardians. Those values don't always translate directly into score, but they can and often do add to the overall performance of the team. 

Of the 11 waves in the game only 3 have ulterior objectives.  For the other 8, the sole objective of the game is to kill stuff.  Even during the less militant objectives, you still have to kill the enemies to get them done.

 

Again, your understanding conveniently ignores that the ultimate objective of 8/11 waves is not to kill stuff, but to survive. Supporting classes can and do add to that by - you guessed it - supporting the stabbers.

This game provides at least three pure roles to players, as well as hybrids:

1. Dealers who hit hard (Infiltrators are the most obvious/talked about, but not the only ones). 
2. Controllers who stagger enemies and stunlock (Stasis Adepts, several Engineers, Turian Sentinels).
3. Tanks who draw enemy fire (many Soldiers, Vanguards, Batarians, Krogan, and even Vorcha)

A team with only dealers will take longer to finish a full instance than a team with two dealers, a tank, and a controller. This assumes, of course, that the team works together. A tank can draw all the fire he wants while the controller addles mobs, but if they're doing that at opposite ends of the map from the dealers, it ain't helping much.

It's not the only factor in deciding wether or not a player was useful, it's certainly not the most important, but it does still matter, so can people stop trying to tell us that it doesn't?  It's becoming such a knee-jerk reaction I'm starting to wonder if these people are getting a little defensive.


I can at least agree with you that score matters, in that it does measure positive contributions to the performance. But it does not measure ALL contributions, nor does it fairly weight all contributions which it does measure.  

Modifié par brian_breed, 16 juin 2012 - 11:02 .


#41
Vault Boy X360

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jordie3000 wrote...

Papa5murf wrote...

Yigorse wrote...

  If your top scorer gets 150k+ and the next player has only 50k or so, not to mention those below, you can't explain that away by saying "I was playing a support role" or "I spent all my time getting the objectives.


That's true only to a certain extent. For example, i don't give a **** if the Salarian Engineer on the team scores a big fat zero, AS LONG AS he has been spamming Decoy the whole game. That decoy is the difference between your team getting swamped, and having the enemy line up infront of you like a shooting gallery.


THIS. This is why I don't feel bad if I score lower than everyone else as an SE, because dude I kept that dang decoy up and without that decoy life would've been much less pleasant for all involved. Obviously one does not coast along just because one has a decoy, but still. 


The funny thing is that if the decoy is specced like its supposed to it will net him like 10k at least.

#42
Blue Face Beast

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The only thing high score is proving is that one player on the team went out of his way to kill everything before the other players get to fight.

It is like that guy who always run ahead of everyone to throw all his grenades ASAP at the enemy spawn location.

Dont get me wrong, it gets the job done and a fast player can pretty much kill everything alone ( especially in Bronze and Silver ) before other players get to act. But it does not mean the other players suck, it just means they were slower to engage combat.

And there are these players who get crazy scores doing all kind of aoe damage and killing the weak mobs while there are players who take time to deal with and defeat the banshee but are not killing other stuff meanwhile thus getting lower scores.

#43
Treacherous J Slither

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A couple of days ago I placed 3rd with an empty score bar after a match in which I did nothing but spam Sabotage. It said I made absolutely no contribution to the fight as far as kills, revives, assists etc and yet someone who had those things still scored less than I did. How is that even possible?

#44
TLK Spires

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it sure does. if the score isn't us 1, bad guys 0, then something is horribly wrong, and i'm not getting sweet, sweet credits.

#45
MWaHa

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TLK Spires wrote...

it sure does. if the score isn't us 1, bad guys 0, then something is horribly wrong, and i'm not getting sweet, sweet credits.


I must admit I lolled.

#46
MoeRayShep

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Score matters to a limited extent, but is decidedly not the whole story.
I'm not talking about the direct utility of score (XP points), when I say it "matters" I mean it's an indicator of player performance.
It's an incomplete indicator that can favor selfish players; it might indicate that you're good at killing things in the game reasonably well, but it does not indicate that you are a good team player.

Extremely high scores (varying depending on difficulty level and squad size) are usually an indicator of a capable shot/damage dealer but a bad team player. I'd say typically this is scoring 150k+ on a 4 player Gold team, unless the rest of the team is total deadweight.
Extremely low scores usually indicate leeching or very new players. If somebody's scoring less than 20k on 4P/Gold you can bet on one of the two.

#47
MoeRayShep

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JSlither wrote...

A couple of days ago I placed 3rd with an empty score bar after a match in which I did nothing but spam Sabotage. It said I made absolutely no contribution to the fight as far as kills, revives, assists etc and yet someone who had those things still scored less than I did. How is that even possible?


Sabotage doesn't award points properly for kills/damage. There are a number of quirks about how points are awarded, but it's most obvious with the FQE.

I guess that's because everybody prefers the female Quarians
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
behind
YEAAAAAAAAH!

#48
megawug

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So my HE who holds banshees at bay and stuns enemies isn't decent support because my score is lower? Riiiiight.

If the scores are extremely different, like 100k+ difference, then okay. What's important is how your teammates were *in-game*. Did they revive you? Did they take out the enemy at a key moment? Did everyone do the objectives as a team and cover each other? Etc., etc....

As long as no one was a liability, who cares?

#49
Karstedt

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Meh.... it's not worth it.

#50
IAMREALITY

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You're just quite simply dead wrong.  Dead wrong.

Score means nothing.  Some of the most valuable players end up in 3rd or 4th.  They don't need to explain their score away.  They just don't.

You know if someone is useful or not, if someone dies all the time or not, if they work as a team or not, provide cover fire or not, race to objectives or not or if they come to your aid or not.  THAT is what matters.  Score is worthless in determining skilll.  I've had some of the worst players end up in first. 

If you give a **** about score then you're quite simply flawed in your perception.  Just care about playing as a team and let the score go. You and the people you play with will be better off for it.