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The more I play with Infiltrators, the more I hate Tactical Cloak.


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#251
Mysterious Stranger 0.0

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thegamefreek78648 wrote...

DarkAbsolution wrote...

Why is the common theme in the OP that of him bleeding out all the time? That's one of my pet peeves. Team is under fire. A player goes down. The rest of the team is struggling to survive now with 3/4ths firepower, and more enemies are descending. Going to revive the downed teammate mate would now mean half firepower while placing oneself in peril. The downed player, rather than thinking "Holy crap! Things are bad if my teammates haven't rezzed me yet! Better use a medigel to help out the team's situation!", instead has the attitude of: "You haven't rezzed me yet? You selfish bastards! Fine, I'm just gonna bleed out then and let you deal with the situation as punishment! Even better, I'm gonna go on the forums afterwards and **** about it". Rez yerself yer lazy leecher. If the team hasn't gotten to you, and they're under fire, that's the time that they really need you, rather than you selfishly bleeding out!


You know, you have a point.

Just as common as posters like the OP are posters who cant stand Infiltrators because they call them a weak useless class that would be better off using an assualt rifle and spamming cryo


Who the **** ever called infillies weak? 

#252
kevchy

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Hahahaha I can't stop laughing at page 7!

The amount of skill required for Tactical Cloak is the same as the skill required for Adrenaline Rush or Marksman. Use it whenever you can and DON'T SUCK.

#253
Red the Aloof

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I avoid playing infiltrator now because they are easy and boring to me. I'll occasionally reluctantly play as one if I feel my team is bad and may need a bunch of revives.

I will admit infiltrators are a good starting class for gold.

#254
bendermac

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cloak means nothing if you don't utilize it.

i've seen infiltrators only shooting their widow uncloaked, running pass enimies uncloaked, reviving team-mates uncloaked, etc. ...

#255
Igipopp

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SparkeeLecaro wrote...

So what you're saying is, you and your team got cornered? Sounds more like a shortcoming on your part.


Yeah he's just blaming the inflis for his own incomepentce. I did last night the Godess map on gold with a friggin' Human Soldier. It's not that hard. Just stick to a teammate harrier everything and don't get cornered. 

#256
nicethugbert

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[quote]toastar wrote...

[quote]nicethugbert wrote...

You talk as if no one else revives or caps objectives or as if it would be impossible to do so if not for Tactical Cloak.
[/quote]


It isn't impossible, but plenty of squishie piles tell me it's not that easy either.
There were games I felt like florence nightingale on speed.
It's fine, I don't mind, it's part of the Job discription, that gold cross at the end means something, it'sfun even, if it doesn't go out of hand, but don't discount it.

It's one thing to revive somebody who died next to you in cover while you were spamming powers, it's another one to revive these two vanguards in the middle of the killzone and then get out without cloak afterwards

Don't get me started on objectives and none infiltrators trying to help.

[quote]nicethugbert wrote... 
Oh, yes you do need to get shot when spamming powers.  If the enemy has a bead on you, and on gold if you are not cloaked somebody always has a bead on you, the second you stick your head out of cover to do anything, you get shot, unless you are cloaked.



No, because of cloak, "snipers" do not stay exposed while aiming.  Non-cloaked players stay exposed when aiming.  Incidentally, shooting without cloak is still useless from an offensive standpoint if you don't have the skill to get killshots with careful aim.
[/quote]


And if you shoot anything but a single shot weapon, you will be out in the open for far longer, the aggro comes back the second cloak breaks and all of sudden that BW cannot fire qick enough against... pretty much everything on gold.

It's true, TC helps you to line out your first shot against most enemies, but then, you need to line up a shot with pretty much any sniper (Krysae doesn't count).
[/quote]

So, what you are telling me  is that it's easy to do with an infiltrator what you can do with any other class.  You are telling me that Infiltrator takes the challenge out of the game.  Therefore, Infiltrator is a crutch.

[quote]toastar wrote...

[quote] So, can someone finally tell me how much skill there is in using tactical cloak?  Tell me how much skill there is in using your team as a bullet sponge.  Tell me how much skill there is in shooting unaware targets in the back. [/quote]

The is never much skill in pressing a button, there is not much skill in using TC as a damage buff, and possible not all that much in using it as an aggro dump (I suppose Shotgun infs are more guilty of those, as they stay in cloak longer, roaming the map), but once you get to the tactical aspect of cloak, it is neither an I-win-button, nor does it get you out of jail for free.

Inf as a class is noob friendly, as you don't die a lot, even if you suck.  Plenty of rubbish Infs out there still show me there's a bit more to it though.
[/quote]



Whoa pal you can't say that around here!  People here are under the
impression that Infiltrators are the skillfull class and all the rest
are ez-mode.


[quote]toastar wrote...


You could ask what's the skill in BEs, it's just spam powers and repeat, and yet people who I completely out-shoot, out-revive and out-objective-cap when when we're are both playing as Inf, completely school me in the biotic arts.
[/quote]



OK, that you can say around here.  Yeah, somehow getting shot while using powers never counts as a factor in skillfulness.  Maybe Infiltrators forgot that enemies shoot?  They must think that lossing cloak is like dropping you bath robe or something.  They're gun shy.  That's what it is.


[quote]toastar wrote...


If you found Inf so easy maybe you just are a true Infiltrator at heart and just don't want to admit it.[/quote]

[/quote]



I guess we are all ez-mode at heart then.  After all, Infiltrator is the noob class.

#257
MstrJedi Kyle

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Yeah. Infiltrators are terrible. I hate having some one be able to activate the 4 objectives without issue and run across the map to revive some one with attracting attention. Infiltrators suck and should be taken out of the game.

#258
nicethugbert

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thegamefreek78648 wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

In a team where you are the only player that isn't an infiltrator, and they all happen to cloak at the same time, it would  make more sense. But that's an exception, not the rule.

Wait, I just read that "shooting targets in the back" bit. New weakest argument. It's called flanking, you do that in a shooting game. It's no more "easy mode" than powers that home in on the enemy and can hit them behind cover.


I see how you herp derp there.  Try flanking without Tac Cloak.


Done it many times with my Human Soldier, tends to hit enemy groups like a bomb went off, cause one does, in the form of a round from a falcon with cryo followed by a frag grenade.


Done it with all the classes and various weapons.  But, if I you want to avoid getting shot, Infiltrator is the way to go.

#259
kevchy

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DarthKilby wrote...

Yeah. Infiltrators are terrible. I hate having some one be able to activate the 4 objectives without issue and run across the map to revive some one with attracting attention. Infiltrators suck and should be taken out of the game.


Lol lets remove tactical cloak, you know, that power that existed since ME2.

#260
nicethugbert

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KuroFye wrote...

in gold, if you stay in the same spot, you'll get killed (with some obvious exceptions),the difference is that TC allows you to run even in tough situations, but if you are fully surrounded they will die anyway.

Noobs plays infiltrators a lot because it makes them survive a lot more and they think they are good, it is not the TC what is wrong.


But but but ... The Forum says noobs are EBIL!  EZ mode EBIL!  No rest for the EBIL!

#261
nicethugbert

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Adhok42 wrote...

ctr2yellowbird wrote...

The OP raised legitimate gameplay concerns, except I would not give the dumping aggro equal weight as the rest of his argument. Even Infiltrators draw some aggro, and I find that it's the Infiltrators who aren't contributing as much as they should be who make that redirected aggro a problem.


LEGITIMATE? What game are you playing?

You want a game observation that is opposite to the OP's here it is.

Bosses and shock troops have an unhealthy obsession with me.

I **** you not, I have had Atlases spawn on the map, clank out into the open, spot me halfway across the map and start sniping me. COMPLETELY IGNORING THE KROGAN BASHING HIS HEAD AGAINST THE LEGS.

I went went to cloakshot and the Atlas turned to deal with the Krogan only interrupt itself the second I reappared and fire a rocket at me.

I have had Primes ignore players to focus solely on me whether I was cloaked or not.

I have had Mauraders charge me recklessly trying to eat my face only get my Omniblade in theirs bypassing a Geth who tried to heavy melee it.

I have had a Husk chase and ONLY me with laser precision around the map while I was dealing with objectives despite running past other players multiple times.

I have had the ENTIRE MAP of enemies focused on my position and completely ignore the other players, cloaked or not.

Aggro dump a legitimate concern?

I have dismissed this claim.

I only WISH I could aggro dump as effectivly as the OP claims I can. Then maybe I don't have to worry about that Centuron whacking me with a stun stick so I can revive in peace.


I experience that situation, unless I use Tactical Cloak.

#262
AjaxDuo

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Flavour of the month = Infiltrator racism.

#263
nicethugbert

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neteng101 wrote...

P/S - How much skill is involved in Smashing your targets while you're safely hiding behind a wall?  How much skill does it take to apply AoE Reave on a bunch of troopers and leave them to rot/die?  How much skill is there in Statis-ing your target and then shooting at them while they're frozen still?



It doesn't seem to be forum "wisdom" that those classes are skillful classes.  Yet, the class that takes the least risk in getting shot, is the most skillful, The Forum says.  I think The Forum is sadly mistaken.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 18 juin 2012 - 09:30 .


#264
nicethugbert

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Sinapus wrote...

Hm. Everytime my shot goes wide (or misses by a teeny tiny bit) I'll have to sit back and remember how "easy" it is to play an Infiltrator.

:whistle:


Try it with a non-infiltrator.  Not as easy.

#265
nicethugbert

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DarkAbsolution wrote...

Why is the common theme in the OP that of him bleeding out all the time? That's one of my pet peeves. Team is under fire. A player goes down. The rest of the team is struggling to survive now with 3/4ths firepower, and more enemies are descending. Going to revive the downed teammate mate would now mean half firepower while placing oneself in peril. The downed player, rather than thinking "Holy crap! Things are bad if my teammates haven't rezzed me yet! Better use a medigel to help out the team's situation!", instead has the attitude of: "You haven't rezzed me yet? You selfish bastards! Fine, I'm just gonna bleed out then and let you deal with the situation as punishment! Even better, I'm gonna go on the forums afterwards and **** about it". Rez yerself yer lazy leecher. If the team hasn't gotten to you, and they're under fire, that's the time that they really need you, rather than you selfishly bleeding out!


I briefly describe 4 matches or a portion of them, only twice mentioning bleeding out and you conclude I bleed out all the time.  Fantastic powers of deduction you have there.  In any case, bleeding out let me spectate those infiltrators.  It was enlightening.  Try it sometime.

#266
nicethugbert

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Midou-Kun wrote...

Some people view good infiltrators to be something close to superheroes, an unstoppable force that seems to dance and dash around the opposition, taking them out at will. Truth is infiltrators are just soldiers with a bit of tech support designed to operate under a set of rules. He's the one you send to finish objectives when it is sitting in the middle of the map where any enemy spawn can and will have prerogative to spot you and shoot you full of holes. He's the most likely candidate to revive someone who got unlucky and got dropped by some hunters, the occasional phantom squad or an unlucky run-in with an enemy spawn point. And lastly, he's the one that takes out big game targets with only a couple of well placed cloaked shots so that teammates can focus on the opposing less daunting support. When it works, infiltrators seem unstoppable and those are the ones that get marred with calls of "easy mode" and "nerf". When it doesn't work, infiltrators get killed and are blamed for everything else.

My point? It's a TEAM game. If it seems easier for a class in your team, then you must be doing you're job right, right? The team shouldn't cater to you, you cater to the team. This is not pointed at OP but all players in general. If your team has 3 infiltrators and you are not, get ready to be an aggro sponge. If your team has 3 biotics and you are not, get ready to strip shields. If your team is too quirky without a theme, just bring your A game, adjust, adapt and always expect the worst. If you think you don't like the team or it wouldn't work, get out quick or get ready to have an awful game. 


That's a very very skillful description of EZ Mode.

#267
nicethugbert

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Drummernate wrote...

*Sigh*

A few things the OP doesn't know about cloak apparently...

It only cloaks you from enemies outside a 5-10m~ radius depending on the enemies. Any closer than that and it does almost nothing.

It does NOT dump aggro.

The enemies that were shooting at the Infiltrator will still continue to shoot where they last saw him for about 5 seconds.

So even if the Infiltrator cloaks and then shoots a few seconds later, the enemy will still be shooting where he last was by the time he uncloaks. No aggro change there.

If you are dying that much when Infiltrators use cloak for some reason, I advise you learn to use cover more efficiently. Pretend this is Gears of War 1, and you have 5 guys with active-reloaded Longshots aimed at you.

Learn to play the game with 1 or 2 less people if aggro somehow does keep changing to you specifically... I usually end up solo'ing anyways, so I am used to aggro.


You don't see a difference between shooting at a player and shooting at his last known location?  Camp much?

#268
kevchy

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nicethugbert wrote...

Sinapus wrote...

Hm. Everytime my shot goes wide (or misses by a teeny tiny bit) I'll have to sit back and remember how "easy" it is to play an Infiltrator.

:whistle:


Try it with a non-infiltrator.  Not as easy.


Riiighhhtttt.......like we equip heavy one-shot sniper rifles/shotguns on other classes that rely on powers.

If you miss a shot using other classes, you would spam your powers, or keep shooting, if you are not using a sniper rifle.

If a cloaked infiltrator miss a shot in close range, s/he is pretty much screwed unless s/he has grenades. They have a smaller window of time to correct their mistake as comapred to the other classes.

Modifié par kevchy, 18 juin 2012 - 08:47 .


#269
nicethugbert

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kevchy wrote...

Hahahaha I can't stop laughing at page 7!

The amount of skill required for Tactical Cloak is the same as the skill required for Adrenaline Rush or Marksman. Use it whenever you can and DON'T SUCK.


Except you get shot while using ARush or Marksman.

#270
nicethugbert

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kevchy wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Sinapus wrote...

Hm. Everytime my shot goes wide (or misses by a teeny tiny bit) I'll have to sit back and remember how "easy" it is to play an Infiltrator.

:whistle:


Try it with a non-infiltrator.  Not as easy.


Riiighhhtttt.......like we equip heavy one-shot sniper rifles/shotguns on other classes that rely on powers.

If you miss a shot using other classes, you would spam your powers, or keep shooting, if you are not using a sniper rifle.

If a cloaked infiltrator miss a shot in close range, s/he is pretty much screwed unless s/he has grenades. They have a smaller window of time to correct their mistake as comapred to the other classes.


Um, you apparently haven't seen the speedruns on you tube.

#271
kevchy

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nicethugbert wrote...

kevchy wrote...

Hahahaha I can't stop laughing at page 7!

The amount of skill required for Tactical Cloak is the same as the skill required for Adrenaline Rush or Marksman. Use it whenever you can and DON'T SUCK.


Except you get shot while using ARush or Marksman.


Not when you are in cover, which is something I hope you actually use...

Besides, those skills require you to stick out your head longer to effectively maximise its damage potential, which in my experience, using the right weapon can have the ability to deal a lot more damage than an infiltrator. By shooting a lot more often than an infiltrator would, of course you will draw aggro, compared to a typical infiltrator using one-shot weapons.

#272
A Wild Snorlax

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Sounds like you need to learn to play normal classes instead of crying about infiltrators.

#273
toastar

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nicethugbert wrote...

So, what you are telling me  is that it's easy to do with an infiltrator what you can do with any other class.  You are telling me that Infiltrator takes the challenge out of the game.  Therefore, Infiltrator is a crutch.



. <- That is a point, I'm telling you so you don't miss this one it either.

Some things are easier with an infiltrator, true, no one disputes that.
But you know how hard it is to do BE with an Inf.. wait, it's pretty much impossible.
Tech busts work, but are nowhere near as powerful or frequent.
For most builds, that leaves your gun as your main source of damage, it's a straight forward concept, its not complicated, it only requires a bit of general shooter savy, coupled with the enhanced surviveability of the cloak that flattens the learning curve and lowers the entry hurdle to gold.
The non-reliiance on combos also means it's a good class for PUGs

It does not mean however:
-That the infiltrator played at his peak is significantly more powerful than other classes (GI is still the exception, it's a glass cannon though)
-every shlob plays a proper infiltrator
-The infiltrator can do everything well (try holding a hack circle with 4 snipers against reapers)
-other classes are rendered obsolete.

If Infiltrator is an automatic "I win" class, pure sniper infiltrator teams would be way more effective than they are.
Shotgun GIs may be able to speedrun glacier in insane times, but that's as much an exception as FBWGG farming is.
The most effective teams against U/U however have one Inf, maybe two if they don't have overlapping skillsets.

I often play Inf in PUGs and I tend to score high, usually #1, but in a well balanced team I can easily come in 2nd or 3rd, and I don't know one bit because I know what I contributed to the match.
Other classes may be more difficult to master in the beginning (try playing AA without the knowledge of BEs), but they aren't, for the most part, any less powerful (try palying an AA with the knowledge of BEs).

nicethugbert wrote...


Whoa pal you can't say that around here!  People here are under the
impression that Infiltrators are the skillfull class and all the rest
are ez-mode.


Every Power is activated by a push of a button, you could argue no class requires skill, it basically just how you run around and where you point your crosshair.<_<
It's when and what you do with it that matters, for the Inf as much as for any other class.

nicethugbert wrote...


OK, that you can say around here.  Yeah, somehow getting shot while using powers never counts as a factor in skillfulness.  Maybe Infiltrators forgot that enemies shoot?  They must think that lossing cloak is like dropping you bath robe or something.  They're gun shy.  That's what it is.



Try shooting a Black widow at a phantoms in CQC, or shooting rocket troopers when there's a prime homing in on you (cloak?, Ha!) then'we'll talk. No comparison to the power spam from cover routine AAs have cultivated, or the "shoot me I don't care practice soldiers can get away with.
Cloak gives you the first shot, from then on you are as naked as the next guy, only that big gun with the huge spike damage draws aggro like nothing else, so excuse me for shedding it once in a while, while I'm off to do flanking, reviving and capping.

If your only experience as an inf is unloading your claymore in the back of a mook and then run away,  I can see how you don't see the skill in it. But if that's all you did, you were a rubbish infiltrator,  no matter how high you scored, because you actually were using your teammates as decoys.But if you die a lot playing other classes and coming way way behind infs when playing a proper kill class, maybe you are a rubbish player all around?

People say score matters little in determining skill, why are infiltrators apparently measured by their high scores then?

#274
toastar

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nicethugbert wrote...

Um, you apparently haven't seen the speedruns on you tube.


Have you ever tried that?

Shotgun infs on glacier is a bit like FBWGG, just not nearly as easy.

Map architecture, AI and game mechanics conspire to allow something that was not really intended by the designers, but alas, it happens.

Plenty of soldier and Adept groups doing crazy speedruns on glacier as well though.

Modifié par toastar, 18 juin 2012 - 09:05 .


#275
kevchy

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nicethugbert wrote...

kevchy wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Sinapus wrote...

Hm. Everytime my shot goes wide (or misses by a teeny tiny bit) I'll have to sit back and remember how "easy" it is to play an Infiltrator.

:whistle:


Try it with a non-infiltrator.  Not as easy.


Riiighhhtttt.......like we equip heavy one-shot sniper rifles/shotguns on other classes that rely on powers.

If you miss a shot using other classes, you would spam your powers, or keep shooting, if you are not using a sniper rifle.

If a cloaked infiltrator miss a shot in close range, s/he is pretty much screwed unless s/he has grenades. They have a smaller window of time to correct their mistake as comapred to the other classes.


Um, you apparently haven't seen the speedruns on you tube.


And thats when the player's skills come into play to correct their mistakes quickly. Easy mode? Nope.

Modifié par kevchy, 18 juin 2012 - 09:05 .