467 réponses à ce sujet

[robarcool]

nicethugbert wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

Can you tell me how much skill there is in using any power at all? I mean all you do is look in the general direction of the enemy, the auto-targeting thing appears over the enemy and most powers hit without fail. 

If you want to compare apples to oranges, fine.  But if you want to compare apples to apples then can you tell me between the two following individuals using the same weapon, who is exhibiting more skill, the one getting shot at while aiming or the one not getting shot at while aiming?  Both hit their target in the same exact spot and do the same damage.

I will bite. One that is getting shot at is a fool, not a more skilled person (unless they landed there by some unfortunate event, like enemies spawning behind them). You are getting shot a lot while taking a shot, then you aren't doing a good job in the first place.
I will tell you this: Play a gold match, cloak in front of the enemy, yes in front of them when they are firing at you and then shoot them. You will get shot.

Modifié par robarcool, 19 juin 2012 - 12:05 .

[Drummernate]

nicethugbert wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

Can you tell me how much skill there is in using any power at all? I mean all you do is look in the general direction of the enemy, the auto-targeting thing appears over the enemy and most powers hit without fail. 

If you want to compare apples to oranges, fine.  But if you want to compare apples to apples then can you tell me between the two following individuals using the same weapon, who is exhibiting more skill, the one getting shot at while aiming or the one not getting shot at while aiming?  Both hit their target in the same exact spot and do the same damage.

The one who is not getting shot is more skilled.

That means he is staying out of the line of sight, is behind cover, or is shooting from an elevated position all great tactics to use, even in real life. Maybe that is why it is called "Tactical Cloak?"

The other guy is probably a Vanguard.

Modifié par Drummernate, 18 juin 2012 - 11:14 .

[nicethugbert]

WaffleCrab wrote...

-Op thinks using TC = dumping agro. when in reality they keep shooting at where you cloaked for 5 seconds or so. and if you cloaked right next to them or in their prime visual cone(they are looking straight at you) they will shoot a good 2-3 seconds longer and will even try to seek you out.

Was it you who previously failed to distinguish between shooting at a target and shooting at last known location?

WaffleCrab wrote...
-He forgets that depending on enemy type your cloak means **** within 5-10 meters. for some enemies i have noticed even longer distances(hunters, phantoms, primes)

-There is skill involved, Knowing when to cloak(timing) knowing where to cloak(the aproximate visual ranges blind spots of the enemy) and knowing what to do while cloaked, and again where and when.

-If you mess up your cloak, your the squishiest class out there. Bad TC timing = dead inf. so if they hightail away from the team, thats a good queu to get the **** out of there, you know. when a squishy guy thinks its a good time to go.

-The game itself punishes pretty harshly if you are a pure damage based TC user and carry a heavy weapon, being in cloak for longer than 3 seconds say with a widow X. can easily pile up your CD for cloak up to 9-10 seconds. depending on your build. Infs are supposed to be mobile. so they can keep taking those deadly fast cloak shots at people, or do support from your teams flank(This is usually what results in a Inf running from between the team when hes switching the flank, i do this alot, and people dont complain, wanna know why? because i keep them alive )

-Last but not least, there are actually people out there who know how to play an inf. from the experience you typed out(which was enough tears to give a test run for my canoo) Either you sucked so hard that the people in your team simply did not want to let you in on their plans and could just do it without you. Or the infs you played with either didnt feel like watching after you, but wanted to enjoy the game(or they simply were testing/beginnig as the inf).

Oh, boo hoo, you make it sound like it's a punishment to use tactical cloak.  As bad as Tactical Cloak sounds when you describe it, it's still better than anything any other class has.  So, if you think TC is so bad, you don't want to look at what the other classes have.

[DayusMakhina]

What's this notion that you cannot shoot an enemy without them seeing you if you aren't an infiltrator? It's somewhat laughable if you've EVER played a third person shooter in your life.

[nicethugbert]

WaffleCrab wrote...

The source of tears wrote...►
Who the hell turns on ARush or Marksman and just sits in cover without sticking their head out to shoot?  Or, are you saying that sticking your head out to shoot from cover makes you invincible?  I'm not sure what flavor of non-sense you are peddling with this statement.

I think he meant, use the skill while in cover to take out pop shots, or shoot while your shields last.
 

Apparently, you are not yet ready to make the connection between getting shot and difficulty of play.  But at least you finally realised that othe classes get shot more than an infiltrator.  You're learning, gratz.

He seemed more ready than you are. HS are by far more easy to play than an inf. and you can easily rack up higher DPS with a HS using the fully maxed out damage AR. with the shield chunk regen. Also the other classes can take more punishment before they need to take cover, and their shields have way more faster recharge rate than infs.
Letting them go back into business of killing things fast enough to keep outpacing the infs.

Lets take a few examples of squishyness vs. tankyness.

The least squishy inf. so far
-the quarian and salarian infs. with the base hp at 500, shields at 600 on both races.
  You can get them up to 825 and 990 if you spend 21 points on fitness and gain the recharge rate buff of 15% and if you got stronghold gear V, 25%

-The least! Tanky soldier. So far
825 shields and 825 hp with max fitness and 25% regen rate for shields if you have the stronghold 5. so. the inf seems like he has more total hitpoints. you would be wrong. if you play your cards right, you can have the AR give you a flat 500 shields every time you pop it, every 7-8 seconds. and if you go the tank way(still a +50% damage instead of 70% during AR) its a -40% damage reduction for 5.2 seconds. so when you got the AR effective. you would have an effective 1375 hp and shields. gives you a pretty long window to lay down waste on your enemies out of cover, easily worth the 5.2 seconds. before you need to take cover again, depending ofcourse on the amount of enemies.

But if you want a real damage dealer and tank at the same time, cant go wrong with a batarian
the blades and inferno grenade dish out a lot of damage, and you dont have to leave cover for a long time.
and if you spec the blade armor right you got. a total of 40% regen rate with fitness 6 and 30% damage reduction givin you an effective hp and shields of 1769


You sir need to play this game more, or you end up embarassing yourself some more.

Edit:typo

What a bunch of theoretical non-sense.  Shieldgate says you are wrong.  500 hundred shields or 1200 shields, it all goes down in one Nemesis shot.  Your health follows soon after.  Meanwhile, the Infiltrator was hiding, lining up his shot at the time the decoy is getting shot while aiming.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 18 juin 2012 - 11:24 .

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

@OP : Aim faster, get better. Think if you play with (not against) infiltrators that this is a challenge, and that you should play better than them.

[robarcool]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

@OP : Aim faster, get better. .

OP needs this:

[nicethugbert]

Drummernate wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Drummernate wrote...

*Sigh*

A few things the OP doesn't know about cloak apparently...

It only cloaks you from enemies outside a 5-10m~ radius depending on the enemies. Any closer than that and it does almost nothing.

It does NOT dump aggro.

The enemies that were shooting at the Infiltrator will still continue to shoot where they last saw him for about 5 seconds.

So even if the Infiltrator cloaks and then shoots a few seconds later, the enemy will still be shooting where he last was by the time he uncloaks. No aggro change there.

If you are dying that much when Infiltrators use cloak for some reason, I advise you learn to use cover more efficiently. Pretend this is Gears of War 1, and you have 5 guys with active-reloaded Longshots aimed at you.

Learn to play the game with 1 or 2 less people if aggro somehow does keep changing to you specifically... I usually end up solo'ing anyways, so I am used to aggro.

You don't see a difference between shooting at a player and shooting at his last known location?  Camp much?

Wow... you obviously don't understand my point...

Cloak does not "Dump aggro."

Enemies continue shooting at the Infiltrator's last known position. (Like in Splinter Cell: Conviction)

The aggro stays on the LKP for about 5 seconds, then they switch targets.

If the Infiltrator cancels cloak before the time expires they will re-aqquire the target.

Kinda funny that you accuse me of camping... when I am the one running around melee'ing everything.

Nice try though.

You just says that the aggro stays at the LKP.  that's where the aggro was dumpped.  It's at the LKP according to you, not on the Infiltrator.  You know what else happens?  Enemies prefer characters over LKPs.  Now they all focus on the non-infiltrator.

[nicethugbert]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

@OP : Aim faster, get better. Think if you play with (not against) infiltrators that this is a challenge, and that you should play better than them.

Oh, I'm going to play with Infiltrators all right.  I think I can pull it off without nova or shockwave.

[nicethugbert]

robarcool wrote...

Feauce wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Same here.  I just call it like I see it.

All I can do is laugh at this... You make no sense whatsoever, and I'd be happy to tell you why.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I can do well with any class, but my observation playing as an infiltrator is that it is the class with which it is easiest to deal damage while at the same time avoiding damage being dealt to you.  Other classes can deal comparable damage as the infiltrator, but not while avoiding aggro like the infiltrator.

Because it's so difficult to plant an asari Adept or human Sentinel behind cover and endlessly Warp/Throw until things die. Infiltrators "avoid aggro" like most others do: the "bang, it's dead" method; Tactical Cloak isn't 100% effective invisibility.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

You don't even need to take cover playing as an infiltrator

This one takes the cake. Maybe if you're playing Bronze you don't have to worry about cover as much. On Silver or Gold? You're completely full of it on this one. Even if you Cloak every chance you get, during the ~3-4 seconds when you're visible, who do you think is the bright, shiny new target?

Here is the thing: If infiltrators take cover too often, they are coward and dump aggro. If they don't take cover too often, they are overpowered.

There is a difference between cover and TC.

[nicethugbert]

Drummernate wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

Can you tell me how much skill there is in using any power at all? I mean all you do is look in the general direction of the enemy, the auto-targeting thing appears over the enemy and most powers hit without fail. 

If you want to compare apples to oranges, fine.  But if you want to compare apples to apples then can you tell me between the two following individuals using the same weapon, who is exhibiting more skill, the one getting shot at while aiming or the one not getting shot at while aiming?  Both hit their target in the same exact spot and do the same damage.

The one who is not getting shot is more skilled.

That means he is staying out of the line of sight, is behind cover, or is shooting from an elevated position all great tactics to use, even in real life. Maybe that is why it is called "Tactical Cloak?"

The other guy is probably a Vanguard.

More skilled at using his team as decoys. 

Being in cover is not being out of LOS.  Enemies see you when you are in cover.  They can't hityou unless they are above you.  But, they can see you.

[robarcool]

nicethugbert wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Feauce wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Same here.  I just call it like I see it.

All I can do is laugh at this... You make no sense whatsoever, and I'd be happy to tell you why.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I can do well with any class, but my observation playing as an infiltrator is that it is the class with which it is easiest to deal damage while at the same time avoiding damage being dealt to you.  Other classes can deal comparable damage as the infiltrator, but not while avoiding aggro like the infiltrator.

Because it's so difficult to plant an asari Adept or human Sentinel behind cover and endlessly Warp/Throw until things die. Infiltrators "avoid aggro" like most others do: the "bang, it's dead" method; Tactical Cloak isn't 100% effective invisibility.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

You don't even need to take cover playing as an infiltrator

This one takes the cake. Maybe if you're playing Bronze you don't have to worry about cover as much. On Silver or Gold? You're completely full of it on this one. Even if you Cloak every chance you get, during the ~3-4 seconds when you're visible, who do you think is the bright, shiny new target?

Here is the thing: If infiltrators take cover too often, they are coward and dump aggro. If they don't take cover too often, they are overpowered.

There is a difference between cover and TC.

Yeah, it is overpowered.

[nicethugbert]

robarcool wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Feauce wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Same here.  I just call it like I see it.

All I can do is laugh at this... You make no sense whatsoever, and I'd be happy to tell you why.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I can do well with any class, but my observation playing as an infiltrator is that it is the class with which it is easiest to deal damage while at the same time avoiding damage being dealt to you.  Other classes can deal comparable damage as the infiltrator, but not while avoiding aggro like the infiltrator.

Because it's so difficult to plant an asari Adept or human Sentinel behind cover and endlessly Warp/Throw until things die. Infiltrators "avoid aggro" like most others do: the "bang, it's dead" method; Tactical Cloak isn't 100% effective invisibility.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

You don't even need to take cover playing as an infiltrator

This one takes the cake. Maybe if you're playing Bronze you don't have to worry about cover as much. On Silver or Gold? You're completely full of it on this one. Even if you Cloak every chance you get, during the ~3-4 seconds when you're visible, who do you think is the bright, shiny new target?

Here is the thing: If infiltrators take cover too often, they are coward and dump aggro. If they don't take cover too often, they are overpowered.

There is a difference between cover and TC.

Yeah, it is overpowered.

It's unfair to non-infiltrators.

[Finnegone]

Master Xanthan wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

That1 ME3 Dude wrote...

NERF EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!! o wait we like to play on a fun game

Compared to Tactical Cloak, everything else is nerfed.

Or, maybe they could just buff the other classes so that they are on the same level as the infiltrator.

What's your yardstick?

Infilitatrators are designed to kill single targets better than any other class. That's their role. That role, by the way, has recently been challenged by the Phoenix, which can tear down any boss far faster than any infilitrator, but that's more or less besides the point for the moment.

The asari are great for crowd control and AOE. The AA and AJA are, in my opinion, the two best classes in the game. The former can dish out BEs and freeze mobs. The latter is the only class in the game that can stay out of cover long enough to properly use a Revenant.

Engineers are fantastic debuffers, and the SE has the best crowd control ability in the game. In fact, most gold teams need a REALLY GOOD SE more than an infilitrator.

Sentinels are, by and large, designed to strip armor / shields. Save the HS, which is basically an asari with a shiny jacket.

Vanguards are good bit players, but tend to attract new or inexperienced players. The HV is a very strong, very viable class on any difficulty - and can certainly outscore an infilitrator by a long shot - but requires a great deal of skill to get right (and the right lobby - HVs get kicked as often as newbies).

Soldiers are a mixed bag, in my opinion. AR is an awesome ability - better than TC - but the HS feels extremely squishy, even with maxed health / shields. The Krogan and Turian are both fine, but are also quite specialized - CQC for the former, PM debuff and otherwise-unusable rapid fire weapons for the latter. The BS and VS are both quite good all around damage dealers, though - and the VS has the advantages of regeneration, weapon damage bonuses, carnage and speed.

So, anyhoo - I'm not sure if any class needs a buff. I think folks need to figure out how to best use the characters they enjoy, and ignore the scoreboard.

[Finnegone]

nicethugbert wrote...

robarcool wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Feauce wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Same here.  I just call it like I see it.

All I can do is laugh at this... You make no sense whatsoever, and I'd be happy to tell you why.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I can do well with any class, but my observation playing as an infiltrator is that it is the class with which it is easiest to deal damage while at the same time avoiding damage being dealt to you.  Other classes can deal comparable damage as the infiltrator, but not while avoiding aggro like the infiltrator.

Because it's so difficult to plant an asari Adept or human Sentinel behind cover and endlessly Warp/Throw until things die. Infiltrators "avoid aggro" like most others do: the "bang, it's dead" method; Tactical Cloak isn't 100% effective invisibility.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

You don't even need to take cover playing as an infiltrator

This one takes the cake. Maybe if you're playing Bronze you don't have to worry about cover as much. On Silver or Gold? You're completely full of it on this one. Even if you Cloak every chance you get, during the ~3-4 seconds when you're visible, who do you think is the bright, shiny new target?

Here is the thing: If infiltrators take cover too often, they are coward and dump aggro. If they don't take cover too often, they are overpowered.

There is a difference between cover and TC.

Yeah, it is overpowered.

It's unfair to non-infiltrators.

So... nerf cover?

[WaffleCrab]

source of tears wrote...

Was it you who previously failed to distinguish between shooting at a target and shooting at last known location?

They still prefer infs. over other targets. for that short while.

Oh, boo hoo, you make it sound like it's a punishment to use tactical cloak.  As bad as Tactical Cloak sounds when you describe it, it's still better than anything any other class has.  So, if you think TC is so bad, you don't want to look at what the other classes have.

I am not saying TC is bad, i am saying the game punishes you if you suck with it(like you apparently do and take out your frustration on people who know how to use it). Your the one shedding the tears here good sir

[Feauce]

nicethugbert wrote...

There is a difference between cover and TC.

Yeah, there is. One will block nearly any shot sent your way. The other is Tactical Cloak.

[WaffleCrab]

nicethugbert wrote...

WaffleCrab wrote...

The source of tears wrote...►
Who the hell turns on ARush or Marksman and just sits in cover without sticking their head out to shoot?  Or, are you saying that sticking your head out to shoot from cover makes you invincible?  I'm not sure what flavor of non-sense you are peddling with this statement.

I think he meant, use the skill while in cover to take out pop shots, or shoot while your shields last.
 

Apparently, you are not yet ready to make the connection between getting shot and difficulty of play.  But at least you finally realised that othe classes get shot more than an infiltrator.  You're learning, gratz.

He seemed more ready than you are. HS are by far more easy to play than an inf. and you can easily rack up higher DPS with a HS using the fully maxed out damage AR. with the shield chunk regen. Also the other classes can take more punishment before they need to take cover, and their shields have way more faster recharge rate than infs.
Letting them go back into business of killing things fast enough to keep outpacing the infs.

Lets take a few examples of squishyness vs. tankyness.

The least squishy inf. so far
-the quarian and salarian infs. with the base hp at 500, shields at 600 on both races.
  You can get them up to 825 and 990 if you spend 21 points on fitness and gain the recharge rate buff of 15% and if you got stronghold gear V, 25%

-The least! Tanky soldier. So far
825 shields and 825 hp with max fitness and 25% regen rate for shields if you have the stronghold 5. so. the inf seems like he has more total hitpoints. you would be wrong. if you play your cards right, you can have the AR give you a flat 500 shields every time you pop it, every 7-8 seconds. and if you go the tank way(still a +50% damage instead of 70% during AR) its a -40% damage reduction for 5.2 seconds. so when you got the AR effective. you would have an effective 1375 hp and shields. gives you a pretty long window to lay down waste on your enemies out of cover, easily worth the 5.2 seconds. before you need to take cover again, depending ofcourse on the amount of enemies.

But if you want a real damage dealer and tank at the same time, cant go wrong with a batarian
the blades and inferno grenade dish out a lot of damage, and you dont have to leave cover for a long time.
and if you spec the blade armor right you got. a total of 40% regen rate with fitness 6 and 30% damage reduction givin you an effective hp and shields of 1769


You sir need to play this game more, or you end up embarassing yourself some more.

Edit:typo

What a bunch of theoretical non-sense.  Shieldgate says you are wrong.  500 hundred shields or 1200 shields, it all goes down in one Nemesis shot.  Your health follows soon after.  Meanwhile, the Infiltrator was hiding, lining up his shot at the time the decoy is getting shot while aiming.

Its theoretical nonsense to senseless fools such as yourself, only a complete idiot sticks their headout if they see a laser homing on them xD. If you cant play something, then dont. and no its not just theoretical, it helps you understand the practice of it, well not sure if it helps someone like you who is stubborn as a mule with hes emotion based evidence of something being OP. or weak.

[Sinapus]

nicethugbert wrote...

Sinapus wrote...

Hm. Everytime my shot goes wide (or misses by a teeny tiny bit) I'll have to sit back and remember how "easy" it is to play an Infiltrator.

Try it with a non-infiltrator.  Not as easy.

I play engineers quite a bit, actually. I can usually use my drone and chained overload to disable enemies, making them easier to kill. I actually played engineers more at first because Infiltrators didn't have the nifty slowdown Commander Shepard has.

I also snipe with batarian sentinels and human soldiers.  Tend to miss with them too unless the target is stationary. Cloak lets you sneak around a bit. It's what's known as a feature, and not a bug. Much like adrenaline rush lets you get a second shot off immediately if you trigger it after firing your one-shot sniper rifle.

Perhaps you should drop your little vendetta, but it's probably too comfortable for you.

[WaffleCrab]

and i think ill follow up on an old saying "dont argue with dumb people, they will only take you down to their level" and just ignore what the OP says from now on as the thread is nothing but a rant based on rage and one mans experiences, not actual empiric non biased data.

I must say though it was entertaining to see what he comes up next.

Modifié par WaffleCrab, 19 juin 2012 - 12:22 .

[WaffleCrab]

Sinapus wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Sinapus wrote...

Hm. Everytime my shot goes wide (or misses by a teeny tiny bit) I'll have to sit back and remember how "easy" it is to play an Infiltrator.

Try it with a non-infiltrator.  Not as easy.

I play engineers quite a bit, actually. I can usually use my drone and chained overload to disable enemies, making them easier to kill. I actually played engineers more at first because Infiltrators didn't have the nifty slowdown Commander Shepard has.

I also snipe with batarian sentinels and human soldiers.  Tend to miss with them too unless the target is stationary. Cloak lets you sneak around a bit. It's what's known as a feature, and not a bug. Much like adrenaline rush lets you get a second shot off immediately if you trigger it after firing your one-shot sniper rifle.

Perhaps you should drop your little vendetta, but it's probably too comfortable for you.

Thug is just what hes name says, a thug, venting hes rage on the forums. I have a feeling its just that, hes vendetta keeps feeding him not sure what that makes him, if not the big T.

[Kel Riever]

 So that the following meme, made right for this page, isn't posted without something useful, even though it is ALL that needs to be said, at this point this arguement is, imo, just pointless.  Really, if a person doesn't like Tactical Cloak, go write a letter to BioWare, or keep stroking the ego.  Because while those people are entitled to their point of view, most seem that they won't accept that plenty of people do not feel like they do.  They aren't going to get what they want with 14+pages of post.  UNLESS what they wanted to do was troll.  I am assuming that trolling isn't what they intended, so good luck with contacting BioWare directly for those who haven't already.

And here's your sign meme:

[Sinapus]

kevchy wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Sinapus wrote...

Hm. Everytime my shot goes wide (or misses by a teeny tiny bit) I'll have to sit back and remember how "easy" it is to play an Infiltrator.

Try it with a non-infiltrator.  Not as easy.

Riiighhhtttt.......like we equip heavy one-shot sniper rifles/shotguns on other classes that rely on powers.

If you miss a shot using other classes, you would spam your powers, or keep shooting, if you are not using a sniper rifle.

If a cloaked infiltrator miss a shot in close range, s/he is pretty much screwed unless s/he has grenades. They have a smaller window of time to correct their mistake as comapred to the other classes.

There's a reason why I carry a pistol on my Infiltrators.

Played a human female infiltrator waaaaaaaay early this morning after I got off work. Reactor w/Geth. Just a simple Bronze match, but I found the Phalanx X useful more than the Widow VI. Had a Silver match w/Geth infiltrator fighting Geth on Ghost and ended up using the Phalanx X instead of the Valiant III on a few waves. Haven't gotten the Kyrsae so don't know how that weapon's scope works with close-range enemies. Probably another thing people are screeching about.

[WaffleCrab]

I think we as a community need to extend one pearly white completely free and complementary

dont know what else we can do.

[FFinfinity1]

Sometimes when I play infiltrator I feel bad, because I get the feeling I really do get ALL the kills but I try to balance it out by being the first to always Rez a team mate or truly focus on objectives. Then again its a team based game, So what IF i get first, the total score of ALL teammates adds up at the end of the game right? Don't we all get the same amount of of credits? Were trying to win right?