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[MANoob]

:

Bibdy wrote...

Err is my math off, because I thought hit chance was (50 + Attacker's Attack - Defender's Defense)?

How does hit chance approach 0 with infinite Attack and Defense?

Hit is scored if
Random(100)< (50 + Attacker's Attack - Defender's Defense)
So if Defense if 50 points higher than attack it's impossible to hit

2DragoonKain3 :
Actually S&B warrior has more advantages over DW warrior than you think. Shield Wall adds 10 defense and 5 armor. It also provides KD immunity which is pretty big. Its also not uncommon for a magical shield  to add ~15 defense.
The fact that DW warrior has to pump dex from the beginning is a disadvantage imo, because quickly getting enough str to wear heavy armor helps survivaility more at the beginning. Pumping defense is better in the long run.

Modifié par MANoob, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:15 .

[Bibdy]

Ahh, I see. Well a simple solution, in the future, would be to grant 0.5 Defense per Dex and put it on another stat, like Constitution or Cunning, instead. Preferably Constitution (making it more appealing), but Cunning would be the 'logical' choice - smarter characters can evade more blows due to anticipating and predicting their enemy's attacks. 'Tougher' characters evading more blows seems a bit of a stretch.

[Bibdy]

MANoob wrote...


Hit is scored if
Random(100)< (50 + Attacker's Attack - Defender's Defense)
So if Defense if 50 points higher than attack it's impossible to hit

That doesn't really explain how it becomes impossible to hit when BOTH values approach infinity

The discrepancy is in the amount of Attack/Defense you get per Str/Dex, as Dragoonkain3 explained.

Modifié par Bibdy, 14 décembre 2009 - 06:02 .

[Tyrax Lightning]

@outlaworacle: I wasn't saying there was an Evasion stat, I was saying I don't understand why Bioware didn't use 'Evasion' to describe 'dodge rate'. It doesn't make any sense to use 'Defense' to describe dodge rate.

@Tirigon: I posted a link to a sweet AW Nightmare thread on Page 2 of this thread, it'll be of interest to ya.

Here's another Nightmare Solo thread for ya'all:

http://social.biowar...20/index/272706

This time, no AW here.

Buggers, since Defense is not a damage absorption stat, then I guess there's no way to justify it bein in Con's jurisdiction after all. No wonder Con is so seriously buggered in it's efforts to be viable.

The only other fixes I can think of is to move Stamina's jurisdiction stat from Will to Con, then warriors & rogues would have an easier time making their builds. (Mana can stay in Will because that dynamic is completely sensible.) Alternatively, or along with the 1st idea, Give Con a new power to boost a base Armor Rating, cause it would make sense for a sturdy person to have stronger, healthier bones than a frail person.

Perhaps with enough brainstorming, the dynamics can be improved.  If not, then at least we've done a good job of killing time.

Edit: The idiot link didn't Hyperlink the 1st time like it was supposed to, so I fixed it.

Modifié par Tyrax Lightning, 14 décembre 2009 - 06:07 .

[Tirigon]

MANoob wrote...

2deathwing200:
Here you go.
http://img686.images...1205112743.jpg/
Haven't finished warrior playthrough, so I can post any proofs yet.

On topic: Integrating last ideas, a slight differentiation of max dodge chance depending on type of armor might work fine. It won't affect armor users, with the exception of those that have crazy defense as well.

How the f*ck did you get the 1999 damage done on highest damage?! My best on AW was 560 with mana clash.......


@Tyrax: I know this thread already, thx nonetheless.
But things like that is just what makes me think I play another game sometimes..... My AW had a little less damage than that in the link above in the quote, but more armor and defense and about 100 hp more... I had a similar build than what is posted in your link, so mine wasnt total crap either, but nevertheless the fights in Denerim were incredibly hard. It was a little funny, most things doing only 1 damage on nightmare, but the Hurlock General in the market district doing 100 damage on easy........

[DragoonKain3]

2k damage is not unheard of with mana clash. Vulnerability Hex + Affliction Hex doubles your damage, plus 30% spirit damage through equips.



In any case, Timortis posted screenshots for his 2H warrior solo nightmare run. If its possible with 2H warrior, it should be possible for ALL builds, considering 2H warrior is considered to be the least viable build in the game.

[MANoob]

2Trigon: Its unlikely that you had more armor, you are just counting shimmering shield. Anyway my build was more about casting and staff damage than melee.

Thats off topic but here is a nice demonstration of staff damage:
http://social.biowar.../9/index/439305

Modifié par MANoob, 14 décembre 2009 - 07:06 .

[Sylixe]

Tirigon wrote...

MANoob wrote...

2deathwing200:
Here you go.
http://img686.images...1205112743.jpg/
Haven't finished warrior playthrough, so I can post any proofs yet.

On topic: Integrating last ideas, a slight differentiation of max dodge chance depending on type of armor might work fine. It won't affect armor users, with the exception of those that have crazy defense as well.

How the f*ck did you get the 1999 damage done on highest damage?! My best on AW was 560 with mana clash.......


@Tyrax: I know this thread already, thx nonetheless.
But things like that is just what makes me think I play another game sometimes..... My AW had a little less damage than that in the link above in the quote, but more armor and defense and about 100 hp more... I had a similar build than what is posted in your link, so mine wasnt total crap either, but nevertheless the fights in Denerim were incredibly hard. It was a little funny, most things doing only 1 damage on nightmare, but the Hurlock General in the market district doing 100 damage on easy........

Builds are pretty much all the same with a few varients when soloing.  The difference between the players is how they apply those talents and when during a fight.  Getting those bosses debuffed is the goal in most cases.  Once they are debuffed it's a simple matter to take them down.  Staff dmg is also not to be overlooked.   Just watch the Youtube parse above to see how out of balance it can be.

I am curious if you seperated the general in the market or took him on with the adds?  Did you get him debuffed down so that he would take the significantly increased DPS?  I've gone back and done the whole ending Denerim with multiple builds and gear setups and they are all doable.  Some are defintly easier than others but than again magic in the game is a bit OP IMO.

[Tirigon]

Well thx for the answers. My staff damage was so damn poor, from level 7 on I didnt use it anymore except for kiting sometimes. Guess I´ll try a mage with different build then.

MANoob, could you post the exact skills you had in the video, quality is unfortunately quite bad so I didnt see it all.

[Dex1701]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
I can't see constitution or will power as a defence booster.

What about cunning?

[Gliese]

Perhaps attributes should give diminishing returns on higher levels? As it is it's quite easy to dump everything into magic or dex or strength if you want to and there's a perfect 1-1 ratio of return all the way.

What if attributes started to cost more once you hit a treshold? Maybe cost 2 points for every point you want to raise an attribute over 50 or whatever. That could work as a deterrent from easy&broken min/max builds.

[deathwing200]

Guys, I see a lot of mages being posted. Anyone care to link a solo warrior screenshot? I am sure someone has one, even if it's only midway through the game.

Modifié par deathwing200, 15 décembre 2009 - 08:36 .

[Kerio]

MANoob wrote...

Hit is scored if
Random(100)< (50 + Attacker's Attack - Defender's Defense)
So if Defense if 50 points higher than attack it's impossible to hit

True ... perhaps the problem though isn't the character's attack/defense ratings but the differential between the character's ratings and those of the opposition.

Not using anything near an optimized character build, I still have 76% hit rate -- relatively speaking that seems high unless you consider that the characters are supposed to be heroes and perform feats beyond those of lesser mortals.

- - - - -

Rebalancing what effect the various attributes have on the character parameters isn't as simple as just changing X, Y, and Z (because character build ABC is more powerful than build CBA at the end of the game).  The implications on how those changes affect the game from beginning to end must be taken into consideration.

Critical knowledge of the opposition is key -- are their attack and defense ratings hard coded or adjusted by their attributes too?  A change to the basic structure (for example changing DEF = N + 1.0 x DEX  to DEF = N + 0.5 x DEX) seems to solve the problem but could radically alter the game not just for the characters but for the opposition as well.

- - - - -

Being more of a role-player than a power-gamer, I don't tend to build characters which intentionally break the rules (or at least push they far beyond where they were designed to work); however, I certainly agree that how the attributes affect the character's performance could use some tweaking -- something to make each attribute equally beneficial to all the classes, characters, and builds.