57 réponses à ce sujet

[FaWa]

 Why is it so much more important than races?

[Zanallen]

So? Many people do. In fact, this forum seems pretty evenly split with people who prefer voiced slightly edging out those who prefer silent.

[Realmzmaster]

It not more important. The problem is that in DAO the races do not mean much after Ostagar. DAO plays the same after Ostagar with very few references due to racial differences. If the races were more important to the story it might matter.

Some gamers want to hear their PC. If the NPCs can be voiced why not the PC. The speech that Anora or Alistair give to the army should be given by the warden. The warden cannot give the speech because the warden cannot speak. The same for the Landsmeet.

[Arthur Cousland]

It doesn't matter either way to me. I got used to my mute pc very quickly in Skyrim, and it never bothered me much during Origins. I'll take playing as a dwarf over having a voiced protagonist anyday.

[AndrahilAdrian]

I'm on the fence. Both voiced and silent have advantages and disadvantages.

[wsandista]

The number of people who prefer voiced PC is slightly higher than those who prefer silent PC, if that is all that is being compared. The ratio changes when factors that are easier with a silent PC, like race selection and origins, are brought into the question.

Personally, I prefer silent PC for several reasons:

• Less costly so more resources can be put towards more/better content
• The player can put the intent and tone behind a dialogue line
• With full line text, the player is aware of exactly what the PC will say, unlike paraphrases commonly used with voiced PC
• The player can imagine what the PC's voice sounds like, instead of having a pre-selected voice for the PC
• Much less Auto-Dialogue(if any) occurs with a silent PC than a voiced PC

That being said, a voiced PC(and set-PC) fits a cinematic game much better than a silent PC, but then I believe that immersion and player-control are much more important than cinematics in a RPG.

Modifié par wsandista, 17 juin 2012 - 06:21 .

[ashwind]

Races are overrated as it is; or too expensive to produce fully - people are too lazy to read now so... sorry.

As the protagonist, by mid-game, nobody will acknowledge your race anymore. All you really get are some "extremely slight" differences in skill/stats that is totally obsolete by mid-game.

Skyrim: Races??? Race does not make significant difference - "Yo Ulfric, Khajiit want join you!" "Ulfric ehhh sure, what's your name... sign him up - although I like dont even let cat people into my city... yeah... how did he got here.... "

DAO: "Warden" replaces your race. Well, at least it is justified better than Skyrim.

But I too am on the fence on this one. Dont really care. I can read too =P

[Maleficarium]

Honestly, I enjoy voiced a lot more to having that poker face the whole time. Its so awkward!

[AkiKishi]

Voiced PC's work better in cinematic games.

[bEVEsthda]

Voiced PC is important, because it does much to ruin the experience for that partcular group of gamers who have approached these cRPGs from a traditional wRPG start. This itself seem to be desirable for some people (unless they're just EA stealth posters), but mainly this is a clash from trying to converge two completely different kinds of games into one, just because they're both called "RPG".

Not "just because", of course. But the developers do seem to have completely lost the perspective, that there are two different experiences, which two different groups of gamers seek.
From my own viewpoint (from these forums, not the least), it seems to be it's the jRPG group that lacks understanding about the difference. From that it's also tempting to guess that the DA2 developer & marketing teams' background is mainly also somewhat cast in jRPGs.

There is the characteristic lack of understanding. There is the various style elements. There is also the otherwise mystery, about why Bioware would venture into jRPG land, when typical jRPGs have justly suffered on the market (just like DA2), and old jRPG developers have looked towards wRPG elements for renewal. I can't help but see a similarity to the situation of NWN:OC, when many Bioware developers had never played BG, but loved games like Diablo and Dungeon Siege.

...And the old difference between wRPG and jRPG lies in the gameplay. And by that definition DA2 is a jRPG. And we've had that discussion already.  Still here's the link:

http://penny-arcade....ese-rpgs-part-1


Since Bioware have committed themselves to this concept they call cinematic, it's probably difficult for them to drop voiced PC. Remains if they can tweak it to become acceptable. I'm gonna allow them to try before passing judgement. But I, of course, don't even understand why they think cinematic is so desirable. I see no value in it. At all.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 17 juin 2012 - 10:47 .

[AkiKishi]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Voiced PC is important, because it does much to ruin the experience for that partcular group of gamers who have approached these cRPGs from a traditional wRPG start. This itself seem to be desirable for some people (unless they're just EA stealth posters), but mainly this is a clash from trying to converge two completely different kinds of games into one, just because they're both called "RPG".

Not "just because", of course. But the developers do seem to have completely lost the perspective, that there are two different experiences, which two different groups of gamers seek.
From my own viewpoint, it seems to be the jRPG group that lacks understanding about the difference. From that it's also tempting to guess that the DA2 developer & marketing teams' background is mainly also somewhat cast in jRPGs.

There is the characteristic lack of understanding. There is the various style elements. There is also the otherwise mystery, about why Bioware would venture into jRPG land, when typical jRPGs have justly suffered on the market (just like DA2), and old jRPG developers have looked towards wRPG elements for renewal. I can't help but see a similarity to the situation of NWN:OC, when many Bioware developers had never played BG, but loved games like Diablo and Dungeon Siege.

...And the old difference between wRPG and jRPG lies in the gameplay. And by that definition DA2 is a jRPG. And we've had that discussion already.  Still here's the link:

http://penny-arcade....ese-rpgs-part-1

If I had to characterise JRPGs it would be having the ability to shape the story while having fixed conversation (and even then there are exceptions).That and a fixed protagonist would be the most common element.

If JRPG's have suffered in the larger market it's because aside from Square Enix they don't advertise and they don't push the technology (which means they need to sell a lot less anyway). Pokemon outsells pretty much everything because almost everyone knows what it is. More obscure games, you can't even buy those in supermarkets.

Once Bioware took the step towards cinematics the games were going to change. But unless you think that Witcher2 and Deus Ex are JRPGs you are way off with where you are trying to lay the blame.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 17 juin 2012 - 10:48 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Zanallen wrote...

So? Many people do. In fact, this forum seems pretty evenly split with people who prefer voiced slightly edging out those who prefer silent.

This site had a lot more traffic on it a couple of years ago compare to now.  Considering how the posters on this site railed against DA2 when it first came out. Their absence isn't due to a lull in developement period.  DA2 had 3 million less sales than Origins in a one year period.  Bioware lost a lot of fans because of their need to take a deep game like Origins and make it into a lighter game like Mass Effect.

So what you have on here are mostly those that enjoyed DA2 lighter gameplay and rather not go back to the deeper Origins style.  I'm on here because I found out that this site was used as a reason why Bioware made changes to the Dragon Age series and wish to help be a voice to get it back to Origins style. (although I now know that DA2's direction was decided before Origins was even released).

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 17 juin 2012 - 11:09 .

[bEVEsthda]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

So? Many people do. In fact, this forum seems pretty evenly split with people who prefer voiced slightly edging out those who prefer silent.

This site had a lot more traffic on it a couple of years ago compare to now.  Considering how the posters on this site railed against DA2 when it first came out. Their absence isn't due to a lull in developement period.  DA2 had 3 million less sales than Origins in a one year period.  Bioware lost a lot of fans because of their need to take a deep game like Origins and make it into a lighter game like Mass Effect.

So what you have on here are mostly those that enjoyed DA2 lighter gameplay and rather not go back to the deeper Origins style.  I'm on here because I found out that this site was used as a reason why Bioware made changes to the Dragon Age series and wish to help be a voice to get it back to Origins style.

This forum also lost a lot of posters, on (noticibly) just one side of the argument, thanks to a couple of EA community staff moderators who went on perma-banning rampages. Of course, those people could have gotten themselves back on the forum, but I interpret it as that it was the last straw, and they just turned their back on Bioware.

[Fallstar]

Zanallen wrote...

So? Many people do. In fact, this forum seems pretty evenly split with people who prefer voiced slightly edging out those who prefer silent.

To the contrary 
http://social.biowar...26/polls/26124/ 
That poll came down to voiced versus silent in the end, people basically ignored the part about wanting to see if they'd still prefer voiced if it came with paraphrasing again.

But yes, the silent PC did slightly edge out the voiced in that. Although such a small difference is statistically meaningless.

Personally I'd prefer a voiced PC if there were multiple VA's to choose from, and if there is no paraphrasing. A single VA with no paraphrasing I could live with, but if paraphrasing and voiced go together a la DA2, I'd jump straight to silent.

[Kidd]

If we need another tally thread, then I'll add my vote to the voiced PC. Done and done.

[Cutlasskiwi]

DuskWarden wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

So? Many people do. In fact, this forum seems pretty evenly split with people who prefer voiced slightly edging out those who prefer silent.

To the contrary 
http://social.biowar...26/polls/26124/ 
That poll came down to voiced versus silent in the end, people basically ignored the part about wanting to see if they'd still prefer voiced if it came with paraphrasing again.

But yes, the silent PC did slightly edge out the voiced in that. Although such a small difference is statistically meaningless.

Personally I'd prefer a voiced PC if there were multiple VA's to choose from, and if there is no paraphrasing. A single VA with no paraphrasing I could live with, but if paraphrasing and voiced go together a la DA2, I'd jump straight to silent.

Zanallen might be talking about this poll.

Modifié par Cutlasskiwi, 17 juin 2012 - 11:46 .

[Cutlasskiwi]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Voiced PC is important, because it does much to ruin the experience for that partcular group of gamers who have approached these cRPGs from a traditional wRPG start. This itself seem to be desirable for some people (unless they're just EA stealth posters), but mainly this is a clash from trying to converge two completely different kinds of games into one, just because they're both called "RPG".

Not "just because", of course. But the developers do seem to have completely lost the perspective, that there are two different experiences, which two different groups of gamers seek.
From my own viewpoint (from these forums, not the least), it seems to be it's the jRPG group that lacks understanding about the difference. From that it's also tempting to guess that the DA2 developer & marketing teams' background is mainly also somewhat cast in jRPGs.

There is the characteristic lack of understanding. There is the various style elements. There is also the otherwise mystery, about why Bioware would venture into jRPG land, when typical jRPGs have justly suffered on the market (just like DA2), and old jRPG developers have looked towards wRPG elements for renewal. I can't help but see a similarity to the situation of NWN:OC, when many Bioware developers had never played BG, but loved games like Diablo and Dungeon Siege.

...And the old difference between wRPG and jRPG lies in the gameplay. And by that definition DA2 is a jRPG. And we've had that discussion already.  Still here's the link:

http://penny-arcade....ese-rpgs-part-1


Since Bioware have committed themselves to this concept they call cinematic, it's probably difficult for them to drop voiced PC. Remains if they can tweak it to become acceptable. I'm gonna allow them to try before passing judgement. But I, of course, don't even understand why they think cinematic is so desirable. I see no value in it. At all.

I can only speak for myself but I come from having played tabletop RPGs before starting to conquer the CRPG world. (And I enjoy wRPGs much more than jRPGs.) For me there is no disconnect or 180 turn from DAO to DA2. It's seems as a natural step to me, especially the voiced protagonist. There are different ways to play, it's as simple as that.

Even back in my tabletop days I've always played it from a 3rd person perspective. That's my playstyle. And that is why I like the voiced protagonist. It enhances my playstyle since I'm stepping into the shoes of that particular character.

But I can see the big disconnect if someone plays the games from a 1st person perspective, and in DA2 that playstyle doesn't seem to be be as supported as it might have been in the past. For me it has nothing to do with wRPGs vs jRPGs, it's all about how you play the games. At least for me.

[Cyne]

Voiced is better IMO, it makes the PC more believable in the context of the game (where everyone else has a voice). In DA2 the female voice actress was very good, male not as good, his voice was flat and boring. But with a decent voice actor, a voiced PC can be quite engaging.

[Olmerto]

I think I agree with what Brent Knowles wrote about having a voiced protagonist in a party-based RPG:

"For me I find having a voiced protagonist that I'm suppose to inherit makes me less engaged with the story and the other characters... instead of focusing on what my party members are saying, I'm constantly being distracted by [my] own chattering. In a sense, once the protag has a voice, all the secondary characters even if written as brilliantly as before, become somehow diminished. The spotlight that was on them is now being pointed somewhere else.

And unfortunately that 'somewhere else' is going to be a more weakly written character because, in the hope of still giving players some semblance of player ownership, the voiced protagonist doesn't have as strong a personality as a protag in a movie or book would have. So in reality the player is controlling the 'weakest' character in the presentation. And the spotlight is on that character."

blog.brentknowles.com/2011/03/14/dragon-age-2-demo/

[Dakota Strider]

In a perfect world, where you can have everything you want, and everything done correctly, having Voice is a no brainer. However, because of many reasons (cost, limited amount of voices to choose from, limited amount of dialogue choices, to name a few), the cosmetic appeal of having a Voiced protagonist, does not outweigh the negatives that doing so incurs. A game where every line is voiced, has to make sacrifices in other areas. And that makes it a lesser game.

If the best argument for making the DA series voiced, is that it is a cinematic game, I have a simple solution. Stop making it a cinematic game, and make it a Role Playing game, like most fans of Bioware fantasy games expect.

Modifié par Dakota Strider, 17 juin 2012 - 10:37 .

[Realmzmaster]

I have been playing cRPGs since they first came out. Before then I was playing various tabletop systems. It has nothing to do with wcRPG vs jcRPG. I have dealt with silent protagonist in most of those games. I have also played the Suikoden series of jRPGs that have a silent protagonist. I prefer a voice protagonist especially if the NPCs are also voiced.

I am playing Drakensang along with DA2. Drakensang is completely silent except for music and sound effects. For me if you are not going to voice the PC do not voice the NPCs. That way all the money that could have been spent of VO goes into the game mechanics.

If you are going to voice the NPCs then I want a voiced PC.

Immersion is broken for me when the PC should be giving the speech like at the Landsmeet or before the army heads to Denerim and it has to be given by a NPC because the PC cannot speak.

If you remember the quest Raiders on the Cliffs the fact that Hawke could give the speech to rally the guards had more impact than if Aveline had delivered it.

All of this is my humble opinion. It has nothing to do with wcRPG verus jCRPG. You have games with silent or voiced protagonists in both types.

The Witcher 2 is hailed as a great game and has a voiced protagonist. Would it have worked as well if Geralt was silent? Would Mass Effect work with a silent Shepard? Maybe maybe not.

Skyrim has a voiceless protagonist. Skyrim's strong point is sandbox exploration. You really do not need a voice for that kind of gameplay. Skyrim's strong point is not the story. Very few gamers buy Skyrim for the main story.

I want a voice PC if I the game has voiced NPCs. If no one is voiced that is equally fine like in Drakensang. I imagine in my mind how everyone sounds and no immersion is broken. Or I can listen to excellent voice actors voice the PC and NPCs. I am waiting to hear Avery Brooks, James Earl Jones or Dennis Haysbert voice a DA character. I would have liked Charlton Heston and Vincent Price too.

[Zanallen]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

So? Many people do. In fact, this forum seems pretty evenly split with people who prefer voiced slightly edging out those who prefer silent.

This site had a lot more traffic on it a couple of years ago compare to now.  Considering how the posters on this site railed against DA2 when it first came out. Their absence isn't due to a lull in developement period.  DA2 had 3 million less sales than Origins in a one year period.  Bioware lost a lot of fans because of their need to take a deep game like Origins and make it into a lighter game like Mass Effect.

So what you have on here are mostly those that enjoyed DA2 lighter gameplay and rather not go back to the deeper Origins style.  I'm on here because I found out that this site was used as a reason why Bioware made changes to the Dragon Age series and wish to help be a voice to get it back to Origins style. (although I now know that DA2's direction was decided before Origins was even released).

Except I was refering to a poll from about a year ago with over 1000 votes.

Edit: The one Cutlasskiwi linked, yes. From 10 months ago. 1473 votes. 53%/47% in favor of voiced protagonist.

Modifié par Zanallen, 17 juin 2012 - 11:58 .

[Reznore57]

DA2 was the first time i played with a voiced protagonist and i liked it , but i guess the snarky tone has a lot of thing to do with it.I always imagined my pc being socially awkward and Hawke's lame joke felt that way.
Then I played ME and I hated FShepard , felt like she was cold and barking at everyone .I didn't like the idea of playing someone from the army and the voice just kept me more away from my pc.
Now voiced pc add to the dynamic of exchange , when i played a silent pc , I feel not always there.Your companions have party banters etc and you're just the silent one.
I just hope they keep on with the tone idea , I think it was a step in the right direction .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Voiced PCs only work when the PC is semi-defined. Adam Jensen and Geralt are how a voiced PC should be done. Like Knowles said in that quote a few posts before, without some form of pre-definition, it feels like you're controlling the weakest character in the game.

[wsandista]

Dakota Strider wrote...

If the best argument for making the DA series voiced, is that it is a cinematic game, I have a simple solution. Stop making it a cinematic game, and make it a Role Playing game, like most fans of Bioware fantasy games expect.

+1