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[KnightofPhoenix]

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

Or that one leader who looks awefully like he came out of an anime, killing 600 men in each battle, by himself while jumping over mountains and bringing down siege engins by him self, while looking like this
 

Sadly, the show has one instance of something similar albeit less crappy happening, with Zhao Yun. Though the novel isn't that better either, it's very romanticized.

[RedArmyShogun]

Well some of the Warriors back then who were Generals were rather powerful.

You have historical records of some of them killing in the region of 60 men or more in a given battle. 120 is the highest I ever heard of though for a given (short time) battle/engagement by one man till the modern age at least. Teens tend to be the average number per single engagement from great fighters. And some of the acient Warriors weren't jokes, I can't remember this Samurai's name atm, but he was legendary for his quick draw, killing 8 men in one battle in an instant during the warring states period. It was said he perfected the technique by killing low flying birds as they went past him.

Of Course while Fantastic numbers in any meassure, its still a far cry from the 100's in the games. Not till the modern Era was that even matched or beaten, heck Heinrich Severloh would make many a COD fanboy cry, as he did many a mother at Omaha Beach in 1944 were he personally killed 1000-2000 men  (though disputed, may be as "low" as 600-700 men) with a Machinegun and 2 rifles.

While Zhao Yun is assurdly invoked to legendary sums, keep in mind he was actully a deadly fighter and commander, all legends have some truth, and some legends are truth, but in this case who knows.

Modifié par Confess-A-Bear, 27 juin 2012 - 03:40 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Does anyone have a bloody map to use? Cause I don't even know where Xiliang is.

[RedArmyShogun]

Both are bigger than this, you can see full size if you "qoute" or you can just use yee old right click source.

Modifié par Confess-A-Bear, 27 juin 2012 - 06:21 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Thank you. On episode three right now and have to say Liu Bei is epic when he goes to the castle with his two brothers.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 27 juin 2012 - 07:26 .

[Alpha-Centuri]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

Or that one leader who looks awefully like he came out of an anime, killing 600 men in each battle, by himself while jumping over mountains and bringing down siege engins by him self, while looking like this
 

Sadly, the show has one instance of something similar albeit less crappy happening, with Zhao Yun. Though the novel isn't that better either, it's very romanticized.

Was the baby throw not epic though? I died laughing

[KnightofPhoenix]

Alpha-Centuri wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Sadly, the show has one instance of something similar albeit less crappy happening, with Zhao Yun. Though the novel isn't that better either, it's very romanticized.

Was the baby throw not epic though? I died laughing

Haha wait till you see the kid grow up. Then Liu Bei complains that his kid is dim witted.

[RedArmyShogun]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Alpha-Centuri wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Sadly, the show has one instance of something similar albeit less crappy happening, with Zhao Yun. Though the novel isn't that better either, it's very romanticized.

Was the baby throw not epic though? I died laughing

Haha wait till you see the kid grow up. Then Liu Bei complains that his kid is dim witted.

Lol I wonder why?

Also I laughed when I seen that.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I think Chengdu is an underrated capital. I want to travel there someday

About killing people in one day, a well-placed firm bunker and a sharp shooter within can annihilate an entire army of noobs, or cause severe damages to a more trained one.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sima Yi is a badass!



I must say I really like him, he's my favorite character in the series after Cao Cao. He's the Chinese equivalent of Fabius (more or less).

I much prefer him over Zhuge Liang. While both are very intelligent and shrewd in military tactics and strategy, Sima Yi is much more of a field commander as opposed to Kongming being an arm chair general.

Sima Yi personally leads his forces in critical junctures (like Cao Cao), commands the respect, loyalty and devotion of officers and men under his command. He treats them harshly, but fairly. He rewards generously and punishes severily.  He learns from his mistakes and is willing to go through a lot of humiliation and tactical setbacks without ever losing sight of his strategic objectives that are ultimately what matters. This is what seperates Sima Yi from Zhou Yu.

For now, I have seen him being a great general and Zhuge Liang's match, and I am looking forward to seeing him being the claculating politician that he was. For now, it's clear that the army is very devoted to him.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 29 juin 2012 - 05:25 .

[Alpha-Centuri]

I just got to Cao Cao realizing that the Cao Ren's (I think it was him) retainer is Sima Yi. Its gonna be hard to match Zhuge Liang... Dude is a BEAST.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I finished all 95 episodes. Overall, I LOVED IT! My favorite TV show ever easily. It was very enrapturing, generally well-paced and well-written with a lot of nuances. It has its problems though, like too much melodrama at the last dozen of episodes imo (though well, that's when all major characters start dying one after the other).

I will write a review soon and have a minimum amount of spoilers.

[RedArmyShogun]

I'm at ep 70 atm, will be done soon, with the heat like it is I have little else to do. Good show, giving some thought to recording it to my PC and then burning it to DVD, course if and when the product comes state side I will without hesitation buy it and burn said self made DVD's in a fire.

Modifié par Confess-A-Bear, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:19 .

[Alpha-Centuri]

Episode 49 currently. Finished Spec Ops the Line and that delayed me for a bit. That game's story is top notch. I never thought a video game would ever tug the strings that are usually reserved for real life or great works of fiction. I was shaking by the time I finished it. Many people won't play it because they expect it to be another hurrah American hero COD clone, and its the farthest thing from it. What reviewers don't realize is the gameplay is standard because it WANTS you to think its one of those games. It beautifully deconstructs every single one of those games while keeping the facade of a GoW-esque shooter. I'm so glad I got it. The choices you make... I'm at a lost for words.

That's off topic. So, the real seeds of disorder have been sown with Liu Bei taking Nanjun after thousands of Southland soldiers fought for it. Kinda a dick movie, but I understand it. He's starting to have to put aside the righteousness for practicality; this is something he has utterly refused to do even at his detriment. I'm saddened by this, but I still respect him.

[RedArmyShogun]

Hmm I wasn't impressed with the demo, but little story was in the demo. I might get it later, but on that other topic, I won't spoil it but for the next several issues its a source of trouble given its central location.

[Alpha-Centuri]

The demo is standard just showing off combat. And I agree, the combat is a gears of war clone. If you do get it and finish it all the way through, I believe you'll thank me. One of the best endings I've played in years.

[RedArmyShogun]

lol when I have money to spare maybe I will. but I just spent most of my extra money on books. I rather read at times than game. I find books can be far more useful.

[KnightofPhoenix]

My review, with minimum spoilers:

Music: The pieces in and of themselves were good (some really good. One in particular played only 5 times), but very few. Which meant that we heard the same music over and over again for 95 episodes. It can get on your nerves, especially the sad music repeated ad nauseam. More diversity in soundtrack would have been great. 

Acting: Overall, I found it great. Some awkward and unnatural moments here and there (when they laugh especially...), but it doesn't detract from its general goodness. The main characters are all acted well. There is no doubt in my mind that the best actor was Chen Jianbin who portrayed Cao Cao. His perfomance instantly captivated me to the show and to the character. And I saw in interviews that he fought to play the role of Cao Cao and refused to play anything else, and it shows in the show for the amount of passion he puts into it. 

Costumes: I find them good overall and they seem historically accurate and appropriate for the era though I am not qualified enough to say so with certainty.  But some of the beards were blatantly fake, like Cao Cao's black beard (it looks more real when he gets old). I like how soldiers and officers of each Kingdom look differently with different armor, even though they probably weren't that different historically. There is one helmet that I find odd and it likely didn't exist, but for the most part costume design was more than adequate.

Passage of time: For a show that spans decades, it is essential that we can identify and feel the passage of time which is a tricky thing to do. Aging was done well for the likes of Cao Cao and Liu Bei, but done poorly with other characters (most blatant example is Guan Yu). Also, the show suffers from the absence of dates. Since I studied the period previously, I have an idea of what time such and such event happened, but even I got lost during the show. Some characters do give us an idea how much time passed, but it's not present enough. It would have been better if we had the date shown with every event.

Warfare: Since the period is about constant warfare, then this part is important even if it is not ultimately the most important thing. The show afterall is focused more on human drama than historical accuracy when it comes to military campaigns and battles. Even so, I felt the show did them pretty well in general. The strategies employed and the strategic thinking of characters are thoroughly explained (sometimes twice or thrice), make sense and are more or less accurate (barring a number of exceptions).  However the strategic element suffers from the lack of a map. Like with dates, the show assumes that you know the geography of China (since it's aimed at a Chinese audience, perhaps it is not unfair). Several times I had to look at a map to grasp the geo-political situation and why such and such strategy was employed. It would have been better if we had a map sequence shoing us troop movements and the like.
When it comes to battles and tactics, which is harder to pull off than strategies, it's more problematic. Some formations are shown that most likely never existed (and with such limited utility). Sometimes it's even stupid (Cao Cao was uncharacteristically stupid in the preude to the battle of Chi Bi. Unlit arrows are not going to destroy ships, but that was done to over-glorify Zhuge Liang). The Battle of Guan Du was one of the few battles that portrayed the tactical element well (even if it was historically innacurate). But overall, it's done well enough for the purposes of the show.
When it comes to action, it is also done well but is sometimes over the top, especially in scenes involving Zhao Yun (the only scenes that ****** me off). But in general, while over-glorified, the action is realistic enough to not boggle your mind.

Story: Now to the most important part, the story. Here is where the show excells. The period of the Three Kingdoms is not one that can be portrayed easily, even with 95 episodes. It's a period full of intrigue, great figures and a lot of drama. And the show pulls it off extremily well, problems notwithstanding.

The show has its biases, being based on the novel The Romance of the Three Kingdoms which was biased. It is biased towards Liu Bei, Zhuge Liang and the Shu-Han Kingdom in general (who are the most popular according to the polls I've seen). But despite the bias, it tries and succeeds in bringing a lot of nuance in the show, never falling into the trap of villanizing anyone (barring Dong Zhuo of course). All characters (barring very few) and sides are complex, multi-faceted, understandable and even sympathetic, while being of course flawed. In other words, pretty human. Cao Cao in particular was done very well. In the past, he was always portrayed as the villain of the period. But the show re-interprets Cao Cao as a ruthless but great visionary, who was fair to his men and by all accounts a great leader overall. Sima Yi too was portrayed pretty well, despite the tendency to see him as a villain. On the otherhand Zhuge Liang, who in general is portrayed as almost a divine being, is shown as a melancholic and lonely man in his old age who is obsessed with invading Wei. There is only one character that I find was poorly done and that's Cao Zhen, who was ridiculous, hilariously pathetic and idiotic all at once, which is historically innacurate. In general however, the show's myriad of character forms its essence and they are portrayed brilliantly.

The pacing is well done overall, except when it comes to the last dozen of episodes or so, which is understandable. 10 or so additional episodes would have helped a lot. By the end, the show becomes too focused on the conflict between Shu and Wei, with Zhuge Liang's Northern Expeditions, that we no longer see the Kingdom of Wu and know extremily little of what is happening with them. But in general, the show was always more focused on the rivalry between Wei and Shu, with Wu occasionally coming in to tip the scale (the exception being the war between Shu and Wu). This is dissapointing to a certain extent, especially since the battle of He Fei was never shown only mentionned (but I am a Wei fan and like to see battles where Wei wins brilliantly).  But despite this, the tripartite balance of power and state of affairs of the period is shown and explained pretty well.

There are minor issues here and there, like Xiahou Dun only appearing once or not enough Zhang Liao. The bias towards Zhuge Liand in his rivalry with Zhou Yu and Sima Yi (who was historically never saved by rain), especially the former, can get annoying at times.

But overall, the story is superb. It captures the political intrigue, constant warfare, heroism, emotion and drama of the period brilliantly. It's a must watch.

[naughty99]

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

Both are bigger than this, you can see full size if you "qoute" or you can just use yee old right click source.

I found this one to be helpful for following along with the locations of the battles.

Modifié par naughty99, 01 juillet 2012 - 06:38 .

[Chewin]

Thank you for that one. Been using Google Maps but this one is better and a lot easier.

[RedArmyShogun]

@ KoP There are some issues on the armor, trust me they were more colorful, and differed in overall style because of the resources each of the three kingdoms had. Ironically in terms of basic soldiers, some of whats in the Dynasty Warriors games is in line. But this is a TV show, there is no way they could affoard to make several differing armors and looks for each type of soldier among the three main Armies. Also full armor was more rare to not at all for troops who weren't part of the core forces.

So not a big deal. If I can get a good shot of some of my books with a cam I can post some renderings of the actual Armors. In the case of Shu and Wu, once both claimed to be Han, you can see why banners were in high use.

But I agree on Cao Cao. Best actor hands down. He was made for that role.

As to the show, historically speaking Wu really didn't do much at that time, it mainly focused on defense in its later years, while Wei and Shu fought, and attempted improvements at home, plus political infighting. Its power was so sapped, after the ordeal of Wei and Shu, later and quickly Shu and Jin, that frankly when Jin finally marched on Wu...it fell quickly.

So in terms of the show...well short of court matters I don't see them playing too huge of a role for the last 10 eps. Though a bit of the history was played with over the course of the show.

Still pretty good overall, so in agreement with you lol also the good and evil music gets the most old, its like when you hear them, well damnit thanks for telling me whats going to happen next lol.

Modifié par Confess-A-Bear, 02 juillet 2012 - 12:23 .

[Godak]

This...this is a thing?

I used to ponder whether to actually invest in the previous RotTK television program, but this (understandably) looks LEAGUES better.

I've always held a special place in my heart for East Asian history, but the Three Kingdoms period is what prompted me to take an interest in the world at large. If anything has shown me that reality can often be just as interesting as a fantasy novel (moreso, in many cases), it would be a certain period of prolonged civil war in a little-known nation called China.

If you have any interest in the period, I suggest you get your e-bum right on over to Kongming.net!

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ bear
True on Wu but they could have shown us Sun Quan declaring himself Emperor and the battle of Shi-ting. Also, they didn't show us the Wu offensive on Hei Fei before. I feel with a few more episode, they could have shown more on Wu and provide some form of closure for characters like Sun Quan and Lu Xun.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 02 juillet 2012 - 05:51 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I think I'd watch that previous series from 84, but only for the battle scenes. In regards to everything else I'd take the new series I think.

Anyone know where to find the 84 series though?

[naughty99]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ bear
True on Wu but they could have shown us Sun Quan declaring himself Emperor and the battle of Shi-ting. Also, they didn't show us the Wu offensive on Hei Fei before. I feel with a few more episode, they could have shown more on Wu and provide some form of closure for characters like Sun Quan and Lu Xun.

Meh, after Zhao Yun died, there weren't any interesting Wu characters anymore.

It was a lot more fun to watch the intrigue with Cao Cao, Cao Pi and Sima Yi in Wei, or Liu Bei, Guan Yu, Zhang Yide and Kongming in Shu.