Fiery Phoenix wrote...
I sided with the Templars.
For the achievement.
That's how me and Zevrann got together.
Who here sides with the Templars and why?
Débuté par
Treacherous J Slither
, juin 17 2012 09:21
#426
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Posté 11 juillet 2012 - 11:00
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That's how me and Zevrann got together.
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#427
Posté 11 juillet 2012 - 11:13
LobselVith8
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[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
Considering the templars Kerras and Alrik are rapists, and one of Alrik's intended victims is a child mage (Ella - as we know from Bethany's letter to Hawke in Act II), your analogy is a little off. [/quote]
I'm not saying the Templars and Chantry are saints here, there are obviously problems and issues that need to be fixed. There are incendents of ill treatment that need to be corrected, thing is Templars exist for the reason of keeping society safe from bad mages. Not all mages are bad, I hoped people would understand this, but apparently not. The ones that are bad, there is little that can be done to help them apart form locking them up, at the very least make sure they are comfortable while locked up. [/quote]
The problem remains that men, women, and children are being locked up for being mages. They haven't done anything, and people will always struggle for freedom. Look at the Rights of Annulment, look at Aldenon the Great and his rebel mages who fought against the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars because they saw the system as slavery. Even the mage protagonist can ask for his people to be emancipated from the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars. The notion of freedom from this system has existed for a long time, and it's never going to dissipate.
Views on the templars also differ from person to person. The templars are the military arm of the Chantry of Andraste, who effectively controlled virtually every mage across the Andrastian nations until there was a continential revolution against this system. Many see the Chantry controlled Circles as a system that effectively dehumanizes mages by religious right. I don't think the Chantry controlled Circles are the solution, and they have lead to a rebellion across Thedas by mages who would rather die on their feet than live on their knees.
[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
What charges are brought against mages - being born with magical ability? Being different than most Andrastians? Their religion saying that mages are "cursed" and that templars have "domination over mages by divine right"? Mages are imprisoned in Circle Towers for being born with magical ability - essentially, because they are mages. If you are so eager to bring real world examples into this discussion, we have plenty of examples of groups of people being imprisoned for being "different" - just look at WWII. [/quote]
Did I say being a mage is a crime, and that they should be locked up for being different? No, so please reread what I said, before pulling the **** card again. Look I'm not hear to defend the Chantry's beliefs, but the Templars (despite the things bad about them) exist for a reason, keeping inocents safe from bad mages. I'm not saying Templars should act like gestapo and arrest every single mage, what I am saying is there is an obvious need for having a police force of sorts that is there to protect innocents from abominations and blood magic let alone the mages themselves. [/quote]
Yet the Chantry controlled Circles are all about locking up people who have magical ability on the basis that they are mages, with the Chantry giving domination over mages to the templars by divine right. Giving an anti-mage religion domination over mages across the continent is a frightening concept. The Chantry preaches that mages are "cursed," and this has lead to innocent mages getting killed because of the stigma that magic has in Andrastian culture (as Wynne tells The Warden when they speak about mages). The Chantry of Andraste rose up from the religious beliefs of Drakon I, who became Emperor of Orlais when he conquered neighboring city-states from his own, and established the Chantry of Andraste, the Order of Templars, and the Circle of Magi. Mages were imprisoned in Circle Towers because they lead a peaceful protest against their lack of rights during the reign of Divine Ambrosia II, who wanted to declare an Exalted March on her own cathedral (where the mages had locked themselves in protest).
No one is saying that there shouldn't be regulation for magic - many pro-mage fans have argued for some type of law enforcement to keep the peace and prevent magic from being abused or used to hurt innocent people. The dichotomy comes from the people who argue that it must be the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars who control mages, and the opposition to them who address that the Andrastian Chantry and its templars are part of the problem by keeping any realistic peace from happening.
[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
Also, not all blood mages are the same, and some Grey Wardens use blood magic, as Duncan notes in the Magi Origin. They use it against the darkspawn, because it gives them an edge against the greatest threat to Thedas. The Joining and the phylacteries are also two examples of blood magic. It's noted in the lore for Dragon Age II that there is some discussion about well-intended mages turning to blood magic as a reaction against the templars, strictly to keep themselves from getting imprisoned or killed. Blood magic allows mages to use magic without templars nullifying their abilities, so I don't see why all blood mages should be villified for the actions of some. [/quote]
And do the Wardens not police themselves if one of them falls victim to corruption or demon influence? There is do denying blood magic has it's advantages, but when you resort to blood magic there is a greater chance that one will become addicted to it. Look at Orisino, can you justify using blood magic to fight templars, sure. But can you justify sacrificing all those other mages in the process? No, that's what blood magic is at times. People can have well intentions, but their well intentions don't mean anything if ultimately what they are doing ends up harming an innocent party, which happens far to often. [/quote]
Orsino acted like an idiot, like every single mage antagonist in Dragon Age II with only two exceptions. None of them made any sense. Does Merrill look like a templar to you? Isabela? Varric? Because that's why Decimus attacked Hawke. Is there any reason for Grace to think Hawke helped the templars if he killed Kerras and his templars? Because that seems to be about making the plot go in the same direction, no matter what you do. Would any sane person follow Tahrone, who looks like a drug addict and acts like a deranged lunatic? It's ridiculous. Quentin was another deranged mage who was all insane and no substance; there was no dimension to him, he was simply a cartoon. And Orsino turning into an abomination while the mages are nearby is asinine, and how did he even know how to perform a ritual that can clearly only be done once?
As for intentions, anything can be abused, and innocents can get hurt as a result - we see that with Vaughan using his status as a noble to kidnap women from the Alienage to be raped. In fact, hypothetically speaking - a blood mage could have stopped Vaughan and his guards from ever laying a hand on the women, and would have been able to prevent Shianni from getting raped.
[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
Your statement was disingenious - which was part of the problem. No one doubts that magic is dangerous and that mages can cross the line, but whether the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars are the solution is debated by many. In my eyes, it isn't the right solution to put mages under the control of an anti-mage religious organization that preaches hatred and intolerance towards them across the continent. [/quote]
And that's what I've been saying, Templars and Chantry have their flaws. And changes need to be made within the Templar Order to make things more friendly and hospitable to mages. But what are we to do, disband the templars all together? If we were to do that, local police forces would be over whelmed, Wardens could barely handle the darkspawn, nor Kirkwall the Qunari. Have an instituation that sets criminal and potential criminal mages apart from society I think is in everyone's best interest. Sorta like what the Asari doe with ardatyachi, minus the whole being set apart just for being born with it. [/quote]
There are other solutions that have been proposed, but allowing the military arm of a religious organization that treats mages as though they aren't people isn't the solution, even if there are problems with changing the status quo. Had something been done long ago to address this problem, it's likely Thedas wouldn't be facing a mage revolution right now.
[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
How is Ian white-washing anything by addressing that there are societies where mages co-exist with non-mages, without Chantry or templar control? [/quote]
Not nessicarly what you just stated being the white washing, what I mean by that is he is willingly over looking that an abomination would not have wiped out early civilization. We know that there are less mages comapred to regular people so say there is ratio one mage to ever 300 peoples. When things start off there wouldn't be that many peoples, so by math it would be until a little while that you end up with an mage based off the math. As population increases you will get more mages and eventually an abomination. I think a few hundred peeps can handle an abomination on a good day. That isn't to say abominations aren't dangerous as they have wiped out tribes before, but to say what Ian is saying is silly. He is pretending that there would be no civilization, and that only until when the Chantry and Templars came around did we have conflict. This is not true. [/quote]
It's true that abominations are dangerous, but I simply don't think that warrants handing the mages over to the templars, especially given how there are societies where mages are living alongside non-mages without templar control (from the Chasind Wilders and the Avvar tribes to the Dalish clans). Some people believe that the templars add to the problem, and end up causing abominations as a result of their efforts to capture or kill runaway mages.
[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
The Band of Three addresses that Kirkwall is a proverbial Hellmouth. It's why virtually all the mage antagonists are insane and stupid, apparently. [/quote]
Then is what I have been saying not accurate? It's a Hellmouth, thats why there is a need to protect mages from themselves and innocents from them. Other places are probably not as bad, others are probably worse, but my point still stand. [/quote]
Wouldn't it be better to have people not live at a Hellmouth - mage and non-mage alike?
[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
Mages can commit wrong actions and cross the line - no one doubts that. Simply because some people don't agree with the tactics of the Chantry or the templars doesn't mean that they whitewash anything - they simply don't think that allowing an anti-mage religious organization to have "domination over mages by divine right" is the right idea. Just look at what happened in Kirkwall - the Knight-Commander ordered the genocide of an entire population of men, women, and children to appease a hypothetical mob only because these people were mages. [/quote]
Listen, I'm not saying he is white washing based on disagreeing with the Templars or Chantry, even I disagree with them. Like you stated if you don't think the Chantry or Templars should have authority over mages, that is fine too. Based off the evidence in codex and in the three games I would say there is a need for a police force of sorts to make sure mages don't go crazy, it doesn't have to be templars, maybe create another religious free oranization to police, because you cannon deny there is a need for something like the templars. [/quote]
I believe Ian actually argued for a law enforcement type of organization to keep the peace a few months back, during an earlier discussion of mages and templars. I don't think many who disagree with the Chantry or the templars argue against having a police force that protects the innocent.
[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
With that said I think the Knight Commander is a bad example, she was already paranoid and slightly bigoted from the start, getting her hands on Bartrand idol only made her worse. I wouldn't call what she did, genocide, but it clearly was wrong. Even her own templars turn on her in the end, if you pay attention to the diolouge there is anti knight commander sentiment stirring withing Kirkwall's Templar order. [/quote]
Part of the problem is that someone who had no right to be in charge of mages was placed in charge of them; we see this with Cassandra as well, who rises to the ranks despite having an anti-mage background.
[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
Again all I'm saying here is there needs to be some organization to police the mages, Templars (despite their flaws) are the best we got right now. People say you can teach a mage not to use blood magic, my original point was that statement is not true, using sex offenders as an analogy. Looking at statistics you cannot teach a person not to be a sex offender, same with mages, they will always be connect to the fade unless you envoke tranquillity (which lets be honest should the very very last resort) even then that would not rid a person of demon possession. And once addicted to blood magic there is little stopping, look at Merril and the whole issue with her demon mirror.[/quote]
Some mages aren't going to go near blood magic, as we see from Niall's reaction in the Fade when the issue of blood magic is addressed. Also, I don't think blood magic is evil. It made sense for my Surana Warden to be a blood mage, for the same reason Duncan addressed - it gives a mage an edge against the darkspawn. It made sense for my apostate Hawke; since templars can outright nullify magical ability, why not use the one school of magic that they can't shut down with their templar abilities? It had to do with survivial, abiet for different reasons.
As for Merrill, I think she was proactive - she researched the lore and extrapolated information from the shard, successfully cleansed the shard of the taint, didn't abuse blood magic for several years, used her abilities proficiently, and tried to build an Eluvian because the entire premise of the Dalish is to restore the past. I respected that she was an intelligent mage who was proactive about trying to do something about the plight of the People.
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
Considering the templars Kerras and Alrik are rapists, and one of Alrik's intended victims is a child mage (Ella - as we know from Bethany's letter to Hawke in Act II), your analogy is a little off. [/quote]
I'm not saying the Templars and Chantry are saints here, there are obviously problems and issues that need to be fixed. There are incendents of ill treatment that need to be corrected, thing is Templars exist for the reason of keeping society safe from bad mages. Not all mages are bad, I hoped people would understand this, but apparently not. The ones that are bad, there is little that can be done to help them apart form locking them up, at the very least make sure they are comfortable while locked up. [/quote]
The problem remains that men, women, and children are being locked up for being mages. They haven't done anything, and people will always struggle for freedom. Look at the Rights of Annulment, look at Aldenon the Great and his rebel mages who fought against the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars because they saw the system as slavery. Even the mage protagonist can ask for his people to be emancipated from the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars. The notion of freedom from this system has existed for a long time, and it's never going to dissipate.
Views on the templars also differ from person to person. The templars are the military arm of the Chantry of Andraste, who effectively controlled virtually every mage across the Andrastian nations until there was a continential revolution against this system. Many see the Chantry controlled Circles as a system that effectively dehumanizes mages by religious right. I don't think the Chantry controlled Circles are the solution, and they have lead to a rebellion across Thedas by mages who would rather die on their feet than live on their knees.
[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
What charges are brought against mages - being born with magical ability? Being different than most Andrastians? Their religion saying that mages are "cursed" and that templars have "domination over mages by divine right"? Mages are imprisoned in Circle Towers for being born with magical ability - essentially, because they are mages. If you are so eager to bring real world examples into this discussion, we have plenty of examples of groups of people being imprisoned for being "different" - just look at WWII. [/quote]
Did I say being a mage is a crime, and that they should be locked up for being different? No, so please reread what I said, before pulling the **** card again. Look I'm not hear to defend the Chantry's beliefs, but the Templars (despite the things bad about them) exist for a reason, keeping inocents safe from bad mages. I'm not saying Templars should act like gestapo and arrest every single mage, what I am saying is there is an obvious need for having a police force of sorts that is there to protect innocents from abominations and blood magic let alone the mages themselves. [/quote]
Yet the Chantry controlled Circles are all about locking up people who have magical ability on the basis that they are mages, with the Chantry giving domination over mages to the templars by divine right. Giving an anti-mage religion domination over mages across the continent is a frightening concept. The Chantry preaches that mages are "cursed," and this has lead to innocent mages getting killed because of the stigma that magic has in Andrastian culture (as Wynne tells The Warden when they speak about mages). The Chantry of Andraste rose up from the religious beliefs of Drakon I, who became Emperor of Orlais when he conquered neighboring city-states from his own, and established the Chantry of Andraste, the Order of Templars, and the Circle of Magi. Mages were imprisoned in Circle Towers because they lead a peaceful protest against their lack of rights during the reign of Divine Ambrosia II, who wanted to declare an Exalted March on her own cathedral (where the mages had locked themselves in protest).
No one is saying that there shouldn't be regulation for magic - many pro-mage fans have argued for some type of law enforcement to keep the peace and prevent magic from being abused or used to hurt innocent people. The dichotomy comes from the people who argue that it must be the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars who control mages, and the opposition to them who address that the Andrastian Chantry and its templars are part of the problem by keeping any realistic peace from happening.
[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
Also, not all blood mages are the same, and some Grey Wardens use blood magic, as Duncan notes in the Magi Origin. They use it against the darkspawn, because it gives them an edge against the greatest threat to Thedas. The Joining and the phylacteries are also two examples of blood magic. It's noted in the lore for Dragon Age II that there is some discussion about well-intended mages turning to blood magic as a reaction against the templars, strictly to keep themselves from getting imprisoned or killed. Blood magic allows mages to use magic without templars nullifying their abilities, so I don't see why all blood mages should be villified for the actions of some. [/quote]
And do the Wardens not police themselves if one of them falls victim to corruption or demon influence? There is do denying blood magic has it's advantages, but when you resort to blood magic there is a greater chance that one will become addicted to it. Look at Orisino, can you justify using blood magic to fight templars, sure. But can you justify sacrificing all those other mages in the process? No, that's what blood magic is at times. People can have well intentions, but their well intentions don't mean anything if ultimately what they are doing ends up harming an innocent party, which happens far to often. [/quote]
Orsino acted like an idiot, like every single mage antagonist in Dragon Age II with only two exceptions. None of them made any sense. Does Merrill look like a templar to you? Isabela? Varric? Because that's why Decimus attacked Hawke. Is there any reason for Grace to think Hawke helped the templars if he killed Kerras and his templars? Because that seems to be about making the plot go in the same direction, no matter what you do. Would any sane person follow Tahrone, who looks like a drug addict and acts like a deranged lunatic? It's ridiculous. Quentin was another deranged mage who was all insane and no substance; there was no dimension to him, he was simply a cartoon. And Orsino turning into an abomination while the mages are nearby is asinine, and how did he even know how to perform a ritual that can clearly only be done once?
As for intentions, anything can be abused, and innocents can get hurt as a result - we see that with Vaughan using his status as a noble to kidnap women from the Alienage to be raped. In fact, hypothetically speaking - a blood mage could have stopped Vaughan and his guards from ever laying a hand on the women, and would have been able to prevent Shianni from getting raped.
[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
Your statement was disingenious - which was part of the problem. No one doubts that magic is dangerous and that mages can cross the line, but whether the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars are the solution is debated by many. In my eyes, it isn't the right solution to put mages under the control of an anti-mage religious organization that preaches hatred and intolerance towards them across the continent. [/quote]
And that's what I've been saying, Templars and Chantry have their flaws. And changes need to be made within the Templar Order to make things more friendly and hospitable to mages. But what are we to do, disband the templars all together? If we were to do that, local police forces would be over whelmed, Wardens could barely handle the darkspawn, nor Kirkwall the Qunari. Have an instituation that sets criminal and potential criminal mages apart from society I think is in everyone's best interest. Sorta like what the Asari doe with ardatyachi, minus the whole being set apart just for being born with it. [/quote]
There are other solutions that have been proposed, but allowing the military arm of a religious organization that treats mages as though they aren't people isn't the solution, even if there are problems with changing the status quo. Had something been done long ago to address this problem, it's likely Thedas wouldn't be facing a mage revolution right now.
[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
How is Ian white-washing anything by addressing that there are societies where mages co-exist with non-mages, without Chantry or templar control? [/quote]
Not nessicarly what you just stated being the white washing, what I mean by that is he is willingly over looking that an abomination would not have wiped out early civilization. We know that there are less mages comapred to regular people so say there is ratio one mage to ever 300 peoples. When things start off there wouldn't be that many peoples, so by math it would be until a little while that you end up with an mage based off the math. As population increases you will get more mages and eventually an abomination. I think a few hundred peeps can handle an abomination on a good day. That isn't to say abominations aren't dangerous as they have wiped out tribes before, but to say what Ian is saying is silly. He is pretending that there would be no civilization, and that only until when the Chantry and Templars came around did we have conflict. This is not true. [/quote]
It's true that abominations are dangerous, but I simply don't think that warrants handing the mages over to the templars, especially given how there are societies where mages are living alongside non-mages without templar control (from the Chasind Wilders and the Avvar tribes to the Dalish clans). Some people believe that the templars add to the problem, and end up causing abominations as a result of their efforts to capture or kill runaway mages.
[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
The Band of Three addresses that Kirkwall is a proverbial Hellmouth. It's why virtually all the mage antagonists are insane and stupid, apparently. [/quote]
Then is what I have been saying not accurate? It's a Hellmouth, thats why there is a need to protect mages from themselves and innocents from them. Other places are probably not as bad, others are probably worse, but my point still stand. [/quote]
Wouldn't it be better to have people not live at a Hellmouth - mage and non-mage alike?
[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
Mages can commit wrong actions and cross the line - no one doubts that. Simply because some people don't agree with the tactics of the Chantry or the templars doesn't mean that they whitewash anything - they simply don't think that allowing an anti-mage religious organization to have "domination over mages by divine right" is the right idea. Just look at what happened in Kirkwall - the Knight-Commander ordered the genocide of an entire population of men, women, and children to appease a hypothetical mob only because these people were mages. [/quote]
Listen, I'm not saying he is white washing based on disagreeing with the Templars or Chantry, even I disagree with them. Like you stated if you don't think the Chantry or Templars should have authority over mages, that is fine too. Based off the evidence in codex and in the three games I would say there is a need for a police force of sorts to make sure mages don't go crazy, it doesn't have to be templars, maybe create another religious free oranization to police, because you cannon deny there is a need for something like the templars. [/quote]
I believe Ian actually argued for a law enforcement type of organization to keep the peace a few months back, during an earlier discussion of mages and templars. I don't think many who disagree with the Chantry or the templars argue against having a police force that protects the innocent.
[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
With that said I think the Knight Commander is a bad example, she was already paranoid and slightly bigoted from the start, getting her hands on Bartrand idol only made her worse. I wouldn't call what she did, genocide, but it clearly was wrong. Even her own templars turn on her in the end, if you pay attention to the diolouge there is anti knight commander sentiment stirring withing Kirkwall's Templar order. [/quote]
Part of the problem is that someone who had no right to be in charge of mages was placed in charge of them; we see this with Cassandra as well, who rises to the ranks despite having an anti-mage background.
[quote]Captain Cornhole wrote...
Again all I'm saying here is there needs to be some organization to police the mages, Templars (despite their flaws) are the best we got right now. People say you can teach a mage not to use blood magic, my original point was that statement is not true, using sex offenders as an analogy. Looking at statistics you cannot teach a person not to be a sex offender, same with mages, they will always be connect to the fade unless you envoke tranquillity (which lets be honest should the very very last resort) even then that would not rid a person of demon possession. And once addicted to blood magic there is little stopping, look at Merril and the whole issue with her demon mirror.[/quote]
Some mages aren't going to go near blood magic, as we see from Niall's reaction in the Fade when the issue of blood magic is addressed. Also, I don't think blood magic is evil. It made sense for my Surana Warden to be a blood mage, for the same reason Duncan addressed - it gives a mage an edge against the darkspawn. It made sense for my apostate Hawke; since templars can outright nullify magical ability, why not use the one school of magic that they can't shut down with their templar abilities? It had to do with survivial, abiet for different reasons.
As for Merrill, I think she was proactive - she researched the lore and extrapolated information from the shard, successfully cleansed the shard of the taint, didn't abuse blood magic for several years, used her abilities proficiently, and tried to build an Eluvian because the entire premise of the Dalish is to restore the past. I respected that she was an intelligent mage who was proactive about trying to do something about the plight of the People.
#428
Guest_Nizaris1_*
Posté 11 juillet 2012 - 11:25
Guest_Nizaris1_*
Guest_Nizaris1_*
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- Guests
What is the difference between mage hating and racism?
In DA world, mages are born mages, it is like you are born white, black, brown or yellow.
You see, all races have different attributes. You white people are big thus more stronger, and history prove that white people are smarter than any races. Black people is more stronger in physical and more resilient. They can stand heat, they can do labor work naturally, they run faster than any other races. Yellow people like me are weak physically, but we are more agile. We are quick to learn something new. We are not strong, and can't stand too much heat and too much cold.
Jews claimed themselves are children of God, the people of the light. All other races are goyim or gentiles. Because of that up until today there are endless conflict in Middle East.
Hitler claim the Germans are Aryan people, superior race above all other races on earth. All other races are sub-human. because of that he order a holocaust on the Jews and become a conqueror in WW2
Japanese also the same, claiming to be superior than Chinese and Korean. in WW2 they genocide the Chinese and Korean. They also invade large part of Asia.
Serbian genocide Bosnian
Black slavery in USA...if you are born black then you are a slave, if you are born white, you are the master.
USA War on Terror on Muslims...all Muslims are evil, axis of evil...just because Muslims are Muslims
There are a lot of examples when some people treating other people because of they are born as they are. There are people who feel superior than others, lead to ethnic cleansing. They simply justify all their actions by saying "those people are THREAT"
In DA world, mages are born mages. The Chantry spreading propaganda, generalizing mages as the same as Tevinter Mages. The hate crime goes on up to the point the mages taken from birth, brainwashing people and mages up to think they are lesser people, weak, cursed, need to be controlled in a cage, killed if must, severed their humanity, used when they are needed, lock them up when not needed...just because mages are born mages?
What give the Chantry/Templar right?
What else you guys who are Templar supporter need to see how evil the Chantry is?
What is the different between the Chantry and Fascist/N.a.z.i?
My people have long history of white people occupation...but i don't hate white people just because they born white. You white people have nothing to do with the white conquerors who invade my country 500 years ago.
if using Chantry method...my people should lock up all white people who come in this country or white people who born in this country, just because they are born white, and thus they are dangerous...they maybe become "abomination" destroying this country......or whatever reason to justify it...
is it right? NO, it is not right....we cannot treat people such just because they are born as they are.
In DA world, mages are born mages, it is like you are born white, black, brown or yellow.
You see, all races have different attributes. You white people are big thus more stronger, and history prove that white people are smarter than any races. Black people is more stronger in physical and more resilient. They can stand heat, they can do labor work naturally, they run faster than any other races. Yellow people like me are weak physically, but we are more agile. We are quick to learn something new. We are not strong, and can't stand too much heat and too much cold.
Jews claimed themselves are children of God, the people of the light. All other races are goyim or gentiles. Because of that up until today there are endless conflict in Middle East.
Hitler claim the Germans are Aryan people, superior race above all other races on earth. All other races are sub-human. because of that he order a holocaust on the Jews and become a conqueror in WW2
Japanese also the same, claiming to be superior than Chinese and Korean. in WW2 they genocide the Chinese and Korean. They also invade large part of Asia.
Serbian genocide Bosnian
Black slavery in USA...if you are born black then you are a slave, if you are born white, you are the master.
USA War on Terror on Muslims...all Muslims are evil, axis of evil...just because Muslims are Muslims
There are a lot of examples when some people treating other people because of they are born as they are. There are people who feel superior than others, lead to ethnic cleansing. They simply justify all their actions by saying "those people are THREAT"
In DA world, mages are born mages. The Chantry spreading propaganda, generalizing mages as the same as Tevinter Mages. The hate crime goes on up to the point the mages taken from birth, brainwashing people and mages up to think they are lesser people, weak, cursed, need to be controlled in a cage, killed if must, severed their humanity, used when they are needed, lock them up when not needed...just because mages are born mages?
What give the Chantry/Templar right?
What else you guys who are Templar supporter need to see how evil the Chantry is?
What is the different between the Chantry and Fascist/N.a.z.i?
My people have long history of white people occupation...but i don't hate white people just because they born white. You white people have nothing to do with the white conquerors who invade my country 500 years ago.
if using Chantry method...my people should lock up all white people who come in this country or white people who born in this country, just because they are born white, and thus they are dangerous...they maybe become "abomination" destroying this country......or whatever reason to justify it...
is it right? NO, it is not right....we cannot treat people such just because they are born as they are.
Modifié par Nizaris1, 12 juillet 2012 - 12:03 .
#429
Posté 11 juillet 2012 - 11:46
LobselVith8
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Captain Cornhole wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
The fact you compared mages to sex offenders tells me you aren't interested in a serious discussion. It would be as though someone compared Templars to ****s (which would be a better...if stil wrong comparison btw). It was disengenous and designed to evoke a negative emotional response towards those who side with mages. By making the comparison you ARE at least implicitly saying that all mages are bad and no we do NOT lock up sex offenders because they might offend. We lock them up after they do....and no you are not supposed to hold people without charge indefinately. (And you can't charge a person for being what they are.)
Really I had the same impression about you. Anyhow I would love to hear your explanation on how comparing Templars to ****s is better if not more accurate, go a head humor me. If placing words in my mouth and blowing my statements completely out of proportion is the only way you feel that you can win argument so be it. Once more the original comparison wasn't about locking mages up. It was about rehab, it doesn't work for sex offenders and it doesn't work for mages that have already fallen victim to demonic possession or blood magic. Numerous instances with in the dragon age universe will back me up.
Unless the circumstance is similar to Connor, there is no way to reverse a possession, so death is the only option. As for blood magic, I think it's an issue of how blood magic is handled. Merrill stands as an example of a blood magic who is a good person, and doesn't abuse their abilities. For people who abuse blood magic, I think it would help to have a blood mage on the right side of the law who can properly deal with them.
Captain Cornhole wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
By making the initial comparison you are trying to say that being a mage is a crime, and that means you are treating mages as sub-human..,and thus you ARE in effect saying that the templars should act like the Gestapo. Should there be dedicated police and a magical arm (preferably in the hands of the crown and OUT of the hands of the chantry) that is designed to protect against magical crimes and threats including abominations? Yes. That arm should include both templar-like warriors and magic. That does NOT mean you should treat people as being subhuman for having green eyes....or for being mages. As for blood magic, I've always said that blood magic should be strictly regulated but given how easily demon can teach it, forbiddening it entirely (along with a lot of what the chantry has done) is just stupid.
You just don't get it, the original comparison was with rehab. Resorting to blowing up and removing context from what I have repeatedly stated really shows how desperate you have become. It says something when you must paint your oppenent as a extreamist in effort to win a debate, knowing you don't have much to effectively counter the argument made against you.
All I'm saying is that if there is reasonable cause that a mage is demon posessed or up to no good with blood magic or doing crazy expirement the Templars should go after the individual in question.
I think an alternative to the templars would be better (without the religious docturine that they have domination over mages and all that jazz). Perhaps akin to what Thrask tried to accomplish - mages and templar-like warriors working side by side.
Captain Cornhole wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
Can you justify sacrificing Lady Isolde to save her son who was innocent? I am not condoning Orsino's actions, but presuming the other mages volunteered (which they did), then it is at least justifiable. If the Wardens can police themselves, if the Dalish and the Avaar, and even the early Andrastian cults could all police themselves, then there is no reason for the circle as it exists....at least if you believe that protection was the reason the circle was actually established. However see the Codex Entry "History of the Circle" and we find that protection of mundanes was the furthest thing from the mind of the Chantry when the Circles were established.
Yeah that whole situation with Isolde is tragic and you really can't blame her. That is one thing the Chantry and the Templars need though is a department or task force that teaches mages (not blood mages or demon possesed) how to safely use their powers and to avoid dangerous situations. Keep in mind the difference of teach before and after one has fallen victim to a demon or blood magic. And with Orsino, if they volunteered then what ever that was their choice, as tragic and stupid as it was. But again with Orsino, it was his job to represent the circle and help the Knight Commander (dispite her crazyness) work out any problems with blood magic or demon possession. Numerous times he dragged his feet, keeping escaped blood mages in secreate he also refused to help with aprehending the mage responsible for killing hawke's mum. Even then the mages in teh circle are suppose to report such things, numerous times when questing you learn about mages failing to report blood magic and rouge mages. I have reason to doubt mages can accurately police themselves.
I think good blood mages could be really effective in dealing with bad blood mages in a task force intended to keep Thedas safe. As for Orsino, I think there is an argument to be made about whether or not any mage could successfully work with Meredith. Given her backstory, it doesn't seem likely. Not that it means much at this point.
Captain Cornhole wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
Part of that is letting mages themselves be treated as human being as PART of the solution. You are engaging in a classic false dichotomy here. No pro-mage poster is saying that mages and magic be totally unregulated. We are saying that the chantry should not be a part of it, and a way needs to be found that does NOT treat a class of people as subhuman.
No at times the aren't treated fairly, like when the rounded up Bethany, that's classic gestapo tactics right there. I don't know about the Chantry not being a part of it, but they clearly aren't doing a good job of it.
I don't think the Chantry should be part of it, given their views on mages.
#430
Posté 11 juillet 2012 - 11:54
MisterJB
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Thank you.dragonflight288 wrote...
Nice system. Strict on the rules for all sides so kudos there. My only contention would be that Amalia wasn't in any more danger than if her father or some other random villager went in there. That demon posing as a cat was already outside the Fade and sealed within a room. She was just as much a danger to anyone going in there as she was to Amalia.
Only Amalia was the first one to enter the room, and possessing her straight away would serve no purpose as she was still sealed within the room.
My point was that he was given freedom and decide have a demon in the basement of the house he shares with his wife and child. it's not a safe environment.
I have a few problems with this system.Well, I personally wouldn't give mages total freedom. The templar order must remain existing because the danger of blood mage criminals and abominations will always exist. To that end, I will want to know with absolute certainty if lyrium truly is required for a templar to have his/her abilities OR to amplify them. Some say we should ignore Alistair never taking his vows, never ingesting lyrium, yet still being able to use templar abilities.
If lyrium is not a requirement, I will immediately get rid of the lyrium addiction. People will still be trained as templars, but they will be in service to the crown, not the Chantry.
If a mage is performing research that requires a constant draw on the fade, delving into it, or summoning of spirits, it is absolutely paramount that such research MUST be watched, because it can easily blow up in the mage's face, to the tragedy of everyone around them.
Considering that these problems exist. I would say that a mage, having graduated from the Circle and have shown they are capable of controlling their power, can be given a choice. They can choose to stay within the Circle if they so wish, researching magic under supervision of the templars and other senior enchanters, go into service for the crown directly, or agree to check in with the templars weekly.
But if a mage is to serve in the palace, they must be investigated thoroughly to make sure they are NOT blood mages.
Templars would respond to abominations as they do already. With extreme prejudice. An abomination is a very serious threat that cannot be discounted.
Mages who do not check in with the templars (or templar equivalent) will be investigated. If they are engaging in research without supervision, the research will be immediately shut down, or, depending on the nature of the research, will be transferred to the Circle to be carried out if the potential gains are greater than the risks.
All mages found practicing blood magic on someone else will be tranquilized. No exceptions. All templars who are found raping a mage will be removed from the order and imprisoned. If lyrium is required for their abilities, they will not serve life in prison, but they will be cut off from lyrium entirely, and they'll suffer lyrium withdrawal for the rest of their life.
If a templar is discovered illegally tranquilizing a mage, he too will be tranquilized. And shall then serve in the Circle as assistants to the mages. No exceptions.
Any mage found committing a crime will also be punished. Due to their extra power and how much more damage they can do in an instant, the punishments will be harsh and swift. They will be held to a higher standard than the average criminal due to the extra power.
All people, should they also have mage children, must make it clear that the child must be fully trained. Hiding children from the Circle will result in children still going there, but family visitation rights would be reduced. Still present, but allowed less often so the child can focus on training.
Any mage found using blood magic, even if just using their own blood to power spells, will be required to live within the circle and under supervision. Any mage who uses blood magic to control the mind of another will be put to death. No exceptions.
....Hmmm, best I can think of for now as it's 2 in the morning where I live and I'm tired. I might think of something better tomorrow. Feel free to point out any flaws I may have with my system.
I like the idea of mages having to check with templars weekly, however, such a law would be hard to enforce. This is not the mordern world where there are security cameras in every corner and people can be easily found.
Neither of us mentioned it so, I assume both of us agree that mantaining phylacteries in the hands of Templars is a Must!
I also disagree that the Templars should be under control of the Crown. Rulers would, inevtiably, try to use powerful blood mages in their wars and if the templars prest them vassalage, they could easily be stonewalled. Just look at what happens in Tevinter where the mages are the government.
So, I believe templars should remain an independt organize focused solely on dealing with the dangers of magic.
Finally, I did not make myself clear, it seems. I did not meant on what the templars would do when faced with an abomination. I meant, in a world where mages live among mundanes, how can the templar response be quick enough to avoid a staggering number of casualties?
I would also add that a weekly check up with the templars might not be enough. Rather, the templars would do an weekly research into every adult mage to ensure they are not practicing forbidden mages in experiment unhautorized by the Order.
#431
Guest_Nizaris1_*
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 12:08
Guest_Nizaris1_*
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The Chantry propaganda is worse at a point when a mother throw away her own child when she know her child is a mage
Talk to Jowan about his family, he told you his mother hate him, call him "that thing"...
Can you guys imagine that...when mothers hate thier own children because of what the Chantry teach them?
Talk to Jowan about his family, he told you his mother hate him, call him "that thing"...
Can you guys imagine that...when mothers hate thier own children because of what the Chantry teach them?
Modifié par Nizaris1, 12 juillet 2012 - 12:15 .
#432
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 12:16
Dave of Canada
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Serves it's purpose. Parents are more likely to hand in their child to the Templar, every civilian serves as a chantry watchdog if the parents try to hide their child and it stops people from dismissing mages as negligible.
That and it's not like the mages prove the Chantry wrong.
That and it's not like the mages prove the Chantry wrong.
Modifié par Dave of Canada, 12 juillet 2012 - 12:16 .
#433
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 12:18
Sylvius the Mad
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That still doesn't make the Chantry's oppression right.Dave of Canada wrote...
That and it's not like the mages prove the Chantry wrong.
#435
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 12:25
LobselVith8
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Dave of Canada wrote...
Unless you're a non-mage.
If that was true, I doubt the new ruler of Ferelden would agree with the mage protagonist about emancipating the mages from the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars. Or the US ending where the new ruler of Ferelden tells Greagoir that the templars will leave the new Circle Tower so the mages can govern themselves, as you can see here.
#436
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 12:29
Dave of Canada
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And we know how well that went with people saying that's going to go badly and the Chantry saying no.
Modifié par Dave of Canada, 12 juillet 2012 - 12:29 .
#437
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 12:41
LobselVith8
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Dave of Canada wrote...
And we know how well that went with people saying that's going to go badly and the Chantry saying no.
The Chantry saying no comes across as a recton, ignoring the absense of the independent Circle of Orzammar post-Magi boon, and especially the US ending where the new ruler tells Greagoir that the mages will be free. Regardless, if there are non-mages who think that the Chantry and the templars shouldn't control mages...
#438
Guest_Rojahar_*
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 12:59
Guest_Rojahar_*
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Remember, not all mages are power hungry and succumb to demons, but ALL templars are oppressive abusive rapists.
Modifié par Rojahar, 12 juillet 2012 - 01:00 .
#439
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 02:04
Xilizhra
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Mages don't ask for their position. Templars, in large part, do. Maybe some who were indoctrinated by the Chantry from an early age didn't, and they can likely be given more allowances.Rojahar wrote...
Remember, not all mages are power hungry and succumb to demons, but ALL templars are oppressive abusive rapists.
#440
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 02:22
IanPolaris
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LobselVith8 wrote...
Dave of Canada wrote...
And we know how well that went with people saying that's going to go badly and the Chantry saying no.
The Chantry saying no comes across as a recton, ignoring the absense of the independent Circle of Orzammar post-Magi boon, and especially the US ending where the new ruler tells Greagoir that the mages will be free. Regardless, if there are non-mages who think that the Chantry and the templars shouldn't control mages...
Not only that but Fereldan (explicitly shown with Alister in DA2 and implied with Anora in DA2) both feel secure enough with their noble backing to "go Church of England" with the Chantry w/r/t Magic. From what I am seeing in DA2 especially more and more the nobles dislike the real and invidious control of the chantry more and more and fear magic less and less. Utlimately I expect that will lead to crown/state control over magic, but the chantry is so stubborn about it that a lot of blood will be shed first.
-Polaris
#441
Guest_Nizaris1_*
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 03:03
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Flemeth is the most powerful mage of all the time, there are rumors about her being an abomination, sacrifice own daughter to continue her existence, eat children and so on...
But, I NEVER SEE Flemeth doing wrong thing as far as i play both DA:O and DA2. I NEVER READ articles that prove all the bad stories about her
Morrigan claim her mother want to steal her body, we only get that from her claim, there is no prove at all. We never read the book. if we ever read sure we don't understand it at all. Then when we meet Flemeth, she want to give her magic book for free. She doesn't even care about it at all. I say Morrigan just ad up some spices from all the version of the Witch of the Wild stories...Flemeth herself hint about it "She fancies such tale...ah how she dances under the moon...", Morrigan just want kill Flemeth for whatever her reason (i gusess for the real book Flemeth have, and she don't want a competition)
(even if we kill Flemeth, there is no indication say Flemeth hunt down Morrigan and steal her body, and Morrigan after return (after left the party) for dark ritual NEVER mention about it at all)
And, WHAT I SEE is Flemeth love to help people
- Flemeth save Grey Warden treaties from destroyed
- Flemeth save The Warden and Alistair
- Flemeth save Hawke and family and Aveline
She don't ask any reward for her deed. In DA2 she only ask for help, asking Hawke to deliver the amulet. Even Merethari respect Flemeth.
I never see any evil deed from Flemeth, but only stories that many versions of it.
Without Flemeth, there is no story to tell...no DA:O and no DA2...because hero of both games dead.
So, if it is true all mages are unpredictably becoming abomination and killing peoples and such...what about Flemeth?
"I laugh at a world full of stupid humans who ignore the Blight's evil and abandon their vigilance to chase mortal goals."- Flemeth
But, I NEVER SEE Flemeth doing wrong thing as far as i play both DA:O and DA2. I NEVER READ articles that prove all the bad stories about her
Morrigan claim her mother want to steal her body, we only get that from her claim, there is no prove at all. We never read the book. if we ever read sure we don't understand it at all. Then when we meet Flemeth, she want to give her magic book for free. She doesn't even care about it at all. I say Morrigan just ad up some spices from all the version of the Witch of the Wild stories...Flemeth herself hint about it "She fancies such tale...ah how she dances under the moon...", Morrigan just want kill Flemeth for whatever her reason (i gusess for the real book Flemeth have, and she don't want a competition)
(even if we kill Flemeth, there is no indication say Flemeth hunt down Morrigan and steal her body, and Morrigan after return (after left the party) for dark ritual NEVER mention about it at all)
And, WHAT I SEE is Flemeth love to help people
- Flemeth save Grey Warden treaties from destroyed
- Flemeth save The Warden and Alistair
- Flemeth save Hawke and family and Aveline
She don't ask any reward for her deed. In DA2 she only ask for help, asking Hawke to deliver the amulet. Even Merethari respect Flemeth.
I never see any evil deed from Flemeth, but only stories that many versions of it.
Without Flemeth, there is no story to tell...no DA:O and no DA2...because hero of both games dead.
So, if it is true all mages are unpredictably becoming abomination and killing peoples and such...what about Flemeth?
"I laugh at a world full of stupid humans who ignore the Blight's evil and abandon their vigilance to chase mortal goals."- Flemeth
Modifié par Nizaris1, 12 juillet 2012 - 03:17 .
#442
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 03:22
Daerog
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There needs to be more people like Enchanter Illana's parents. Don't have to be rich, but still supportive parents.
The fear of magic should be there, but the Chantry or the Circle should still promote social support and supportive relationships...
Circles should still be around, but with more dialogue between the Circle and surrounding people... or something...
The fear of magic should be there, but the Chantry or the Circle should still promote social support and supportive relationships...
Circles should still be around, but with more dialogue between the Circle and surrounding people... or something...
#443
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 03:31
Plaintiff
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Being supportive wouldn't do anything. They would have to be rich in order to have influence.DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
There needs to be more people like Enchanter Illana's parents. Don't have to be rich, but still supportive parents.
The fear of magic should be there, but the Chantry or the Circle should still promote social support and supportive relationships...
Circles should still be around, but with more dialogue between the Circle and surrounding people... or something...
And people in general aren't suddenly going to become supportive unless the Chantry completely changes the message of its propoganda, or a group of equal power arises to preach the opposite of what the Chantry is already saying.
#444
Guest_Nizaris1_*
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 03:31
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Circles should still be around, but with more dialogue between the Circle and surrounding people... or something...
They should meet Professor Xavier and learn how he run Xavier School of Mutant
or...they should meet Professor Dumbledor instead
You see, Harry Porter accidentally sent his cousin into snake cage, making his aunty a balloon, but with proper education and treatment (and LAW) he still can live with normal people
Modifié par Nizaris1, 12 juillet 2012 - 03:33 .
#445
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 03:58
Daerog
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Plaintiff wrote...
And people in general aren't suddenly going to become supportive unless the Chantry completely changes the message of its propoganda, or a group of equal power arises to preach the opposite of what the Chantry is already saying.
Like the Imperial Chantry, which will likely gain more influence during this mage-templar war, if they want.
speaking of Xavier, this is kind of like mutant registration... except there are also demons/spirits involved and it isn't so random. Its like a mix of x-men and star wars. Edit: With a dash of The Exorcist.
Anyway, whoever wins, the dwarves win with extra markets for lyrium and weapons and mercenaries. Edit: and the peasants lose of course.
Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 12 juillet 2012 - 04:06 .
#446
Guest_Nizaris1_*
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 04:07
Guest_Nizaris1_*
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speaking of Xavier, this is kind of like mutant registration... except there are also demons/spirits involved and it isn't so random. Its like a mix of x-men and star wars.
They should meet Yoda then..."angry, don't be...cool, you must...""
#448
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 04:38
dragonflight288
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I have a few problems with this system.
I like the idea of mages having to check with templars weekly, however, such a law would be hard to enforce. This is not the mordern world where there are security cameras in every corner and people can be easily found.
Neither of us mentioned it so, I assume both of us agree that mantaining phylacteries in the hands of Templars is a Must!
I have no problems with phylacteries as they are essential to tracking down mages who go rogue. And if a mage doesn't check in, it makes it easier to investigate that mage entirely. Personally I think phylacteries should not only be in the hands of the templars but also the Circle as well. That way if the templars are tracking a mage down, the Circle can tell if the templars kill the mage or not, or vice versa. That would allow more accountability for individual actions, both mage and templar.
I also disagree that the Templars should be under control of the Crown. Rulers would, inevtiably, try to use powerful blood mages in their wars and if the templars prest them vassalage, they could easily be stonewalled. Just look at what happens in Tevinter where the mages are the government.
So, I believe templars should remain an independt organize focused solely on dealing with the dangers of magic.
Ah, completely independent like the Wardens? That's a good idea. But if a mage has many years of dedicated and honorable service to their country, they should have the right to be rewarded for it (my mage warden became the Chancellor to Alistair.) I suppose that's where I was going if a mage ends up in the palace. If around so many influential people, it MUST be established that the mage in question isn't a blood mage. I suppose the templar order, if completely independent from the crown or Chantry, would be the most qualified.
But the risk (not necessarily a problem as this is a hypothetical situation) of an independent templar order is that they themselves must accept the responsibility to keep the Chantry and politics out of their duties. They are only accountable to themselves there, and if people like Lambert or Meredith rise in their ranks, the exact same problem that exists now would exist again. The templars need a checks and balance system. I don't trust the idea that they and the Circle should work together because the risk of the current problems or the rise of another Tevinter can easily happen based on whose in charge. It could go either way if the templars and Circle end up working together to balance each other out.
Finally, I did not make myself clear, it seems. I did not meant on what the templars would do when faced with an abomination. I meant, in a world where mages live among mundanes, how can the templar response be quick enough to avoid a staggering number of casualties?
I would also add that a weekly check up with the templars might not be enough. Rather, the templars would do an weekly research into every adult mage to ensure they are not practicing forbidden mages in experiment unhautorized by the Order.
Right. Completely misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying.
Like I said earlier, and I should have clarified this point better, the mages have a choice on where they can live. In the Circle where they've been growing up and training, in the military service of the crown (where they are constantly surrounded by well-trained soldiers) or in areas set up by the templars where they can easily be observed and checked on and where they can check in with the templars. But they can also live their own life (running a medical clinic for the mundanes, enchanting services, being an assistant to the templars in hunting mage criminals {if they know the area and the people, they can do a better job helping} etc)
The mage is given the freedom to choose, but because of the danger of becoming an abomination or abusing power, they're never far from the templars or well-trained soldiers.
It's not equal freedoms or total freedom. But it's a lot more than the mages currently have.
#449
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 05:22
Daerog
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If that is implemented, the towns will likely just crop around the Towers, so not much difference other than more outside time and gardenning.
Maybe the Formari should set up Fairs, bring in more money to help support the new towns, as that will be more costly than just a Tower, and the mages will still depend on the Formari.
"Come one, come all, come see the Amazing Andre the Awesome, as he performs feats of illusion and entertainment!"
"And now for my next act, I am sensing a strong spiritual feeling over here, yes, you madam, did you recently have an uncle who passed away? He says..."
"HOLY MAKER HE IS CALLING UPON DEMONS"
*Templars tackle and slay Andre*
"Wait, he's not a mage, it's just a show!"
"oops..."
Edit: Illusionists have no chance in Thedas, as clever as they are, they will just be called mages and people will shrug, or call on the nearest templar.
Maybe the Formari should set up Fairs, bring in more money to help support the new towns, as that will be more costly than just a Tower, and the mages will still depend on the Formari.
"Come one, come all, come see the Amazing Andre the Awesome, as he performs feats of illusion and entertainment!"
"And now for my next act, I am sensing a strong spiritual feeling over here, yes, you madam, did you recently have an uncle who passed away? He says..."
"HOLY MAKER HE IS CALLING UPON DEMONS"
*Templars tackle and slay Andre*
"Wait, he's not a mage, it's just a show!"
"oops..."
Edit: Illusionists have no chance in Thedas, as clever as they are, they will just be called mages and people will shrug, or call on the nearest templar.
Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 12 juillet 2012 - 05:22 .
#450
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 05:51
IanPolaris
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DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
If that is implemented, the towns will likely just crop around the Towers, so not much difference other than more outside time and gardenning.
Maybe the Formari should set up Fairs, bring in more money to help support the new towns, as that will be more costly than just a Tower, and the mages will still depend on the Formari.
"Come one, come all, come see the Amazing Andre the Awesome, as he performs feats of illusion and entertainment!"
"And now for my next act, I am sensing a strong spiritual feeling over here, yes, you madam, did you recently have an uncle who passed away? He says..."
"HOLY MAKER HE IS CALLING UPON DEMONS"
*Templars tackle and slay Andre*
"Wait, he's not a mage, it's just a show!"
"oops..."
Edit: Illusionists have no chance in Thedas, as clever as they are, they will just be called mages and people will shrug, or call on the nearest templar.
Actually this has happened [in Thedas I mean], i.e. Templars killing a non-mage because they THOUGHT a person was performing unsanctioned magic when they weren't in fact doing magic at all.
-Polaris
