[quote]DuskWarden wrote...
He was a senior enchanter remember, he knew full well what would happen if he chose to allow himself to become an abomination. [/quote]
He didn't choose it. I got the impression the possession was forced on him by the Pride Demon he summoned. He couldn't control it and... well...
Uldred? He is gone! I am Uldred... and yet I am not Uldred.
[quote]Dave of Canada wrote...
What? There's no such thing as "basic human rights" on Thedas, it's a recent modern-world concept which is being applied by players to a fictional setting, commoners can be slaughtered and tortured for insignificant reasons and you're talking about "human rights" existing?[/quote]
Arguable. You can bring up how a noble's son was tortured and the Landsmeet is appalled that Howe performed such an act.
You could say it's because he was a noble's son that the Landsmeet was appalled, but that's arguable in and of itself.
Then the Landsmeet in Ferelden tells Loghain that there's no slavery allowed in the country -- and indeed, it's illegal in many countries, albeit performed in secretive fashion. -- and are just as appalled that he would sell Elves to slavers.
Wynne calls the culling of all mages genocide.
I think the game goes out of its way to say that these concepts do exist in some form or some fashion.
[quote]Dave of Canada wrote...
They're wearing an ugly flesh-suit and going to demon rave parties.[/quote]
Well you have to admit, demons do know how to party. At least amongst themselves they do.
The Sloth demon in the Mage Origin wasn't tired just because he's embodying sloth. He was tired because the Demons had one helluva night prior to the Mage Warden's Harrowing.
[quote]
The difference being they're keeping an eye on one mage[/quote]
Not true. Avernus tells his acolytes to fall back -- implying there are multiple mages, and indeed you even fight a Warden Mage skeleton outside -- and in Awakening you can have 2-3 Mage companions.
Plus, you fight an Abomination. And Abominations are possessed Mages.
[quote]Dave of Canada wrote...
Averted how? Releasing him?[/quote]
For starters, finding a more capable First Enchanter that isn't unknowingly a part of Uldred's ploy to keep his own status as a blood mage hidden whilst simultaneously raising his own standing.
Had Irving not been so naive and gullible, what happened in the Tower might never have transpired.
Further then that, more freedom -- even in limited form -- given to the Mages.
[quote]Dave of Canada wrote...
His--and his small group of followers--actions were prompted by Loghain's offer and being rejected by his peers, you could say the "neglect" at the Circle prompted his actions but it didn't influence anyone else. They were all raised in the same location, all heard the same offer, they all had the same choice. They refused and Uldred fought back because of it.
Fact is, everybody else refused.[/quote]
The Circle system was why they chose that course of action. Loghain's proposal to Uldred only cemented their conviction that what they felt they needed to do was in fact what needed to be done.
Given time, I'm willing to bet Uldred may have done the same thing for the same reasons, Loghain or no.
[quote]Dave of Canada wrote...
Blood Magic is learned when you've made a deal with a demon, whether out of mutual benefits or because one side wins out far more but they don't need to spend time looking for demons. All they need to do is yell out "I want to make a deal" and demons flock to them, as demons will always try to manipulate mages.[/quote]
Not true. The Mage Warden can request the Baroness to teach him/her blood magic. At the time, it is unknown to the Warden that the Baroness is truly a Demon, so he/she is laboring under the assumption that she is still a Mage.
He/She wouldn't have asked her to teach him/her blood magic if learning from a Mage wasn't possible.
There are many things about blood magic that need to be remembered:
1) Blood magic doesn't power itself off of the Fade. It's tied to the physical realm.
2) Because it's a type of magic, Demons are able to remember it. The arcane is eternal in the Fade, after all.
3) The Chantry banned blood magic. More then likely they tossed any books on the subject into a fire so that learning from demons became the quickest way possible, but not the only way possible.
4) The tome in Awakening says that it teaches a Mage about the power of blood.
[quote]
Wynne, Finn, Irving, Bethany and others do come up. Hell, the end of Asunder makes it clear that the leaders of each fraternity are split with wanting to go to war or wanting to maintain the status quo. One vote was the "majority", one. That's hardly a majority.[/quote]
Wynne acknowledges however that the Circle is a prison and one that needs to be changed by learning from various people. She doesn't really like it. She just tolerates it because it's the best option for the Mages.
At least, until her son's life is threatened. Then she went into car-lifting mode.
Bethany likes being able to be around people like her and teaching them. That's not really an approval of the Circle system. That's just an approval of being for once in her life around many mages.
Irving's a twit. At least, in Origins he is. I'm curious as to what his views on the Mage-Templar issue was in Asunder.
[quote]Dave of Canada wrote...
What? Do you think the anti-magic Templar wouldn't have been able to handle it when reinforcements from Denerim arrived?[/quote]
That depends. Gregoir isn't too certain reinforcements will arrive in time.
Although it really doesn't matter. Wynne's barrier did more to keep the Demons and Abominations in the Tower more then the iron doors did.
[quote]
They contained the situation.[/quote]
The situation they themselves created. And they didn't push the Mages back into the Gallows. The Mages went there of their own volition to prepare the rest of the Circle for the coming threat.
Additionally, I wouldn't say the city suffered little damage. After the Qunari invasion began, we saw the city being torn apart. Corpses were in the streets, the city was on fire, etc.
Same thing happened here.
So because the Circle defended civilians for hundreds of years, the war makes it a failure and that we should forget about the atrocities of Blackmarsh and Redcliffe simply because they're insignificant to war? [/quote]
While I can't comment on DuskWarden's post, I will say that I highly doubt the Circle systems defended the civilians from the dangers of magic.
I'm more then willing to bet that a fair portion of the time, they were responsible for creating the problems they contained.
[quote]That makes no sense, their war would only brew more anti-Mage sentiments (which isn't hard to do)[/quote]
Not if they act intelligently. All they need to do is offer their services to villages in exchange for safe harbor. By acting as doctors in local villages, they can increase pro-mage sentiments.
Additionally, Ferelden itself has become increasingly pro-mage thanks to the Mages' Collective making problems disappear before the Chantry gets involved.
And if they offer their allegiance to Divine Justinia V -- who is in support of reforming the system -- then they can, by virtue of that alone, substantially increase who is on their side.
The Divine is the Chantry, for all intents and purposes. To support her means they support the Chantry. To support the Chantry she's fighting for means they want a better system that isn't Tevinter 2.0 for either side -- non-mage or mage.
As such, they may be able to gain a few countries over to their side.
[quote]
Those thinking in the short-term are the mages fighting for freedom, not the mages who designed the Circle in the first place.
[/quote]
But you have to look at how far the original system proposed by the Mages of that time has fallen into something where freedom is preferable.
Even if that freedom is short-lived and filled with the hardships of daily life that the commoners face.
But even so, Mages could potentially help the community at large. If they learned to control their powers, they could create miniature weather changes to affect the crops. They could cause rain to form during a drought, and thus keep food from shriveling up and dying.
Spirit Healers could heal the sick and wounded.
Mages could actually improve society just as much if they were free -- with restrictions and limitations in place, of course.
Retour en haut
she has been pushing for annulment for years and was being thwarted by the Grand Cleric and the Devine was taking her own devine little time about getting back to Meredith about going over Elthina's head. With GCE dead she, in her own mind, becomes the authority in Chantry matters in Kirkwall and thus she can finally do this thing. Lastly © because she's a looney.
