673 réponses à ce sujet

[Samzo77]

Plaintiff wrote...

Samzo77 wrote...

I think that's my point. Anders should have been put down the first time he ran. A consistent policy on this would have drastically changed what happened in Kirkwall.

They have a consistent policy: re-containment. The templars broke it when they ran Aneirin through. Their actions run contrary to Chantry Law, the Chantry just doesn't bother to enforce their own rules.

I get that. But running through Aneirin was the right call, and should have been applied to Anders as well. Continually recapturing rebellious mages isnt effective, when they should be regarded as dangerous apostates.

I know that's harsh, but what should they value more, the life of one Mage, or the many that could be placed at risk if that Mage isn't under some form of supervision?

[MisterJB]

If, after seven escape attempts, the mage still hasn't used blood magic to conceal or protect himself, he probrably isn't dangerous enough to warrant a sword through the gut.

I am, of course, wrong because this is Anders we are talking about.

[Plaintiff]

Samzo77 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Samzo77 wrote...

I think that's my point. Anders should have been put down the first time he ran. A consistent policy on this would have drastically changed what happened in Kirkwall.

They have a consistent policy: re-containment. The templars broke it when they ran Aneirin through. Their actions run contrary to Chantry Law, the Chantry just doesn't bother to enforce their own rules.

I get that. But running through Aneirin was the right call, and should have been applied to Anders as well. Continually recapturing rebellious mages isnt effective, when they should be regarded as dangerous apostates.

I know that's harsh, but what should they value more, the life of one Mage, or the many that could be placed at risk if that Mage isn't under some form of supervision?

The mage. More utility.

[dragonflight288]

I get that. But running through Aneirin was the right call, and
should have been applied to Anders as well. Continually recapturing
rebellious mages isnt effective, when they should be regarded as
dangerous apostates.

I know that's harsh, but what should they
value more, the life of one Mage, or the many that could be placed at
risk if that Mage isn't under some form of supervision?

Wait, attempting to kill Aneirin, the guy who survived being run through by the templars, went to the Dalish and lived among them, and then became a healer who lived among the trees, minding his own business and helping people without a thought, was the right thing to do?

What if you were an elf, had a mage kid, forcibly taken by humans who hate elves anyway, he escapes once, and is killed for it, is the right thing to do?

Aneirin became a great person. Understanding and forgiving of Wynne long before she forgave herself, and spends his time now helping others and minding his own business.

[GodWood]

dragonflight288 wrote...
Wait, attempting to kill Aneirin, the guy who survived being run through by the templars, went to the Dalish and lived among them, and then became a healer who lived among the trees, minding his own business and helping people without a thought, was the right thing to do?

He did those things after he got stabbed.

It's not like he went to the Dalish, became a healer, minded his own business and helped people without a second thought and then got stabbed by the mean ol' Templars.

[Plaintiff]

GodWood wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
Wait, attempting to kill Aneirin, the guy who survived being run through by the templars, went to the Dalish and lived among them, and then became a healer who lived among the trees, minding his own business and helping people without a thought, was the right thing to do?

He did those things after he got stabbed.

It's not like he went to the Dalish, became a healer, minded his own business and helped people without a second thought and then got stabbed by the mean ol' Templars.

So? What are you saying here? That attempted murder of a child is only bad in retrospect? That being stabbed and left for dead put him on the straight and narrow and he was destined to turn out bad otherwise? That his good deeds don't count because they only happened after a near-death experience?

[Daerog]

The only reason Aneirin got stabbed is because he couldn't make them laugh.
Anders escaped the Fereldan Circle many times, always was returned.

Aneirin should have learned some jokes and gained some more confidence before escaping.

Personally, I like the Circles and their purpose, but the Templars are really wishy washy with their policies and regulations. Templars do need to regulate themselves better, and some need to understand that the policy is for the knight commander to work with the first enchanter, and give Circles some self governing, they are meant to help the Circles control/regulate magic or whatever.

[dragonflight288]

Gregoire said it best. The First Enchanter is meant to run the circle and make the decisions. The Knight-Commander serves to watch the mages and advise as necessary.

Shame the Chantry as a whole doesn't believe that. If they did, this entire issue would be largely resolved.

[MisterJB]

Two cases somehow makes Templars prone to become rapists?

[MisterJB]

Here is a more private bathtub.
Mages disapear because the templars don't post dates and times for Harrowings. They just grab you in the middle of the night and send you to the Fade. Inevitably, some die and the templars don't bother letting the other mages know what happened ergo, people "disapear".

Yes, it's a cage. But a gilded one. In the Circle mages are safe, mostly, from both angry mobs and demons. They are fed, have a strong roof over their heads, wood for their hearts and receive education. They live better than most peasants.

Sure, it's not perfect but, what is?

Modifié par MisterJB, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:46 .

[Dave of Canada]

Nizaris1 wrote...

How do you feel living in that condition?

Lucky.

If you manage to click on all those mages walking around you hear about mages who go missing, and many rumors.

Wait, you're telling me... mages which go on harrowings at secret and then fail and get cut down before they turn into abominations.... go missing?!

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:40 .

[dragonflight288]

Wait, you're telling me... mages which go on harrowings at secret and then fail and get cut down before they turn into abominations.... go missing?!

And how do you expect mages to have a strong sense of will or confidence if they go into the harrowing at undetermined times, have no idea what it's all about, so all they have is gossip, and then told if they fail or take to long but may have succeeded, they'll be killed?

[MisterJB]

Andrastians burn their dead, that is why there are no graves anywhere in Ferelden.
And if the templars wouldn't even throw the abominations into the lake, I seriously doubt they wouldn't cremate the mages who fail the Harrowing.

They could let the apprentices know who died but I suspect they don't want anyone to know just how high the mortality rate of the Harrowing really is. If death is not confirmed, it is always possible the apprentice was just transferred to another Circle or sent into a mission outside of it.

[Dave of Canada]

Nizaris1 wrote...

the same thing can be said about convicts...or prisoner of war...they are fed, free meals everyday, they have education, they have sports, they exercise.....they live "happily" in the prison right?

Are you intentionally being naive? He's talking about Thedosian society, free meals / education and far more is a luxury in Thedas. Using your rather poor example, there's countless people who'd rather live in a prison than their "normal" living conditions in today's modern world. Apply that to Thedas? Hell, the idea is laughable.

Not only that, it means their death is nothing, no one knows what happen, that is why there are gossips, i bet they just throw the dead apprentice to the lake...no cremation, no burial...do you see graves out side the tower?

They probably get cremated. Leaving bodies to be possessed by demons is stupid, throwing them into a lake is idiotic and burying bodies isn't a custom used in Andrastian society.

And does death have to mean "something"? Since when?

They treat mages like animals, Morrigan is true, if you bring her to the Cicle then she will give comment about it, "they are corralled like cattle..." Even Leliana have a comment like that, "...i will never treat anyone like animals", if you bring her to the Circle.

Warm food, beds, clothing and education = animals?

Compared to homeless commoners which are slain and raped by noblemen, left to die by disease and famine with no education unless they join the Chantry or are born into nobility?

Poor mages.

Harrowing itself is a demonic ritual, the templars with associated mages put demons into the apprentice. The demon themselves telling YOU in the Fade, then when you speak to Alistair, he confirmed it. If you want to save Connor using the Circle help, First Enchanter said "It can only be done because of Connor willingly have contract with the demon, if forced there is no other way than to kill him"

Harrowing is a training for something all mages face, the possibility of being possessed. If they fail the Harrowing, they die because they're too weak to live among the people when demons might try to attack them anytime and they'd fail then.

It's not like demon attacks are expected and you're totally prepared for it, a useful mage will survive the initial unexpected encounter and be prepared. If your mage was an idiot and was going "I'M GOING TO FREE YOU, MOUSE"--they deserved to die, they'd be a threat anywhere else.

Meaning what?
- the Templar have to kill apprentice if failed Harrowing because it is forced upon them!

It has to be forced on them. An unexpected scenario has many variables, a planned one not too many.

- the Templar have contract with demons, giving demons meals

Where the hell did you get this from? They don't "feed" demons intentionally, they "feed" demons by giving them incompetent mages.

- they breed demons

Considering this is impossible, I'm impressed!

In the first quest in Mage Origin, in the Fade, the ones who help you... *snip*

The demon (mouse) admit his role to make apperentice failed.

That's the point of the Harrowing. If your mage submit to Mouse, it means he can't tell what is a demon and what isn't in the Fade and thus shows himself as incompetent and dangerous to the Circle. Bam, abomination!

If your mage gets killed by the Rage demon, it means he can't defeat the weakest demon in the hierarchy. Bam, abomination!

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 08 juillet 2012 - 01:45 .

[MisterJB]

That's a temple meant to protect her ashes. And it's quite unique.
At least in Ferelden. I wouldn't be surprised if the orleasians built temples filled with deadly traps to protect their ashes.

Also, some prisons do have a better standard of living than many places in the world. And our stndards of living have increased a lot since the Middle Ages.

Modifié par MisterJB, 08 juillet 2012 - 01:48 .

[thats1evildude]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Are you intentionally being naive? He's talking about Thedosian society, free meals / education and far more is a luxury in Thedas. Using your rather poor example, there's countless people who'd rather live in a prison than their "normal" living conditions in today's modern world. Apply that to Thedas? Hell, the idea is laughable.

In fact, one of the things you can throw back in Anders' face during Awakening is "Yeah, us elves certainly don't suffer as bad as you mages."

Modifié par thats1evildude, 08 juillet 2012 - 01:50 .

[MisterJB]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote..
Where the hell did you get this from? They don't "feed" demons intentionally, they "feed" demons by giving them incompetent mages.

You never play Mage Origin? Or you don't understand a bit about what is going on

Feeding a demon intentionally would be sending it a mage with its hands tied and mouth sewn.
That's not what the templars do at all. They pit a mage against a demon and even if the fiend wins, they will kill it anyway.

Not the best test in the world but the templars are not feeding demons.

[dragonflight288]

It's not like the templars do anything to help emotionally and mentally prepare mages for the Harrowing, which is kept secret from all apprentices. Apprentices go in, completely ignorant on what they're expected to do, UNTIL the very moment where it's go in, die, or become tranquil.

[MisterJB]

They don't put demons in apprentices.
If you are talking about Mouse, I see no reason to believe its story rather than take it what it is, a Pride Demon in human disguise.