30 réponses à ce sujet

[Baa Baa]

Could someone explain this to me please?
I don't understand how brainwashing is supposed to be Paragon.

[MegaSovereign]

Did you learn anything from Legion?

You can't apply organic morals to synthetic beings.

You don't need to destroy what you can use.

[Cecilia L]

Rewriting feel too reapery to me. I am human, so I will base my decisions on my human morals.

[luk3us]

Is submission not preferable to extinction?

[KingZayd]

Baa Baa wrote...

Could someone explain this to me please?
I don't understand how brainwashing is supposed to be Paragon.

Same.

My almost pure paragon still chose to rewrite them, albeit with some difficulty (probably the hardest decision in the game for me)
I made my choice, because I figured.. whatever my choice I was doing it firstly to eliminate my enemies. This is valid. We are still at war with the Heretic Geth.

But I figured that protecting the galaxy from the Reapers was my main responsibility, and the "True" Geth would make for powerful allies. I sought, to help the "True" Geth for this very reason.

I personally would have the two choices the other way around. My almost pure Paragon would still make the same choice, but that's because I see my Paragon as someone who is GOOD, rather than someone who is uncompromising (which I believe is the essence of Paragon. Someone that doesn't let the situation compromise their strict morals)

[Baa Baa]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Did you learn anything from Legion?

You can't apply organic morals to synthetic beings.

You don't need to destroy what you can use.

Yes, but he was asking Shepard, an organic being, to choose. An organic being would need to go by organic morals because he could not understand synthetic morals.
Both choices have pros and cons but imo destroying them is more ethical than enslaving them.

[Edolix]

Rewrite = less Quarian assets and more Geth assets in ME3
Destroy = less Geth assets and more Quarian assets in ME3

Bioware wanted more people to sympathise with the Geth, so they made almost every option that benefits them as paragon. That's all it boils down to, really.

[Code_R]

The lesser of two evils is still evil but ultimately the better decision opposed to mass execution.

[Baa Baa]

Edolix wrote...

Rewrite = less Quarian assets and more Geth assets in ME3
Destroy = less Geth assets and more Quarian assets in ME3

Bioware wanted more people to sympathise with the Geth, so they made almost every option that benefits them as paragon. That's all it boils down to, really.

Pretty much this.
I didn't really like their take on the whole situation. I did think it was necessary to make the Geth sympathetic but I dislike how they turned the Quarians into the villains all of a sudden and pushed people to destroy them.
Imo it'd be better for decisions like that (destroy or save geth/quarians) to not make a Paragon or Renegade choice obvious. This way Paragons (who cannot achieve peace) do not feel that they have to pick the Geth or Renegades don't feel they have to pick the Quarians. The choice is morally grey anyway, choosing anything other than peace results in you exterminating an entire race, which is definetly not a Paragon thing to do.

Modifié par Baa Baa, 17 juin 2012 - 11:26 .

[Lord Goose]

I remember that initally Paragon objects reprogramming, stating that brainwashing is unacceptable no matter if its done on organics, or synthetics. However, in the next dialogue its revealed, that reprogamming is not exactly brainwashing. Since both heretics and ordinary geth are ''correct'', they simply exchange infallible arguments, which make other side automatically agree.

Its a very fishy idea , though, but anyway after that dialogue, Shepard is convinced that reprogramming is not actual form of mind control. And decision is Paragon, because it allows geth to reunite with heretics, fixing their problem. On the other hand, destroying them mostly mean, that Shepard simply doesn't want geth to become stronger.

I vaguely remember that is also possible to play the mission as complete renegade, who will consider that geth are just machines, and reprogramming would be fine.

[silentassassin264]

This was one of the more stupid decisions in ME2. When you enter the ship, the renegade option is the one saying it doesn't matter because they are machines in which Legion agrees but then at the end it flips to renegades saying to destroy them instead of control them.

[David7204]

I know rewriting the heretics makes the geth fleet stronger, but it does it make the quarian fleet weaker?

Assuming you save both, of course.

[KingZayd]

David7204 wrote...

I know rewriting the heretics makes the geth fleet stronger, but it does it make the quarian fleet weaker?

Assuming you save both, of course.

yeah.

[David7204]

Does it even out?

[o Ventus]

It's more akin to wiping your computer of a virus than brainwashing.

[KingZayd]

David7204 wrote...

Does it even out?

I can't remember now, but I do remember a thread about that. I think it either evens out, or turns out best.
Bioware should have been more willing to punish decisions, paragon or renegade.

[Typhoniel]

My Paragonshep was happy to rewrite the geth and get paragon points for it. It was like teaching them the right way and turn them away from dark side. Destroying is a unchangeable option, you can't tell them later "I did a mistake". I gave the Geth a second chance to reunite with their brethren and live in peace with them.

And as Ventus said: It is more like running an anti-virus software on them than brainwashing.

[xsdob]

Lord Goose wrote...

I remember that initally Paragon objects reprogramming, stating that brainwashing is unacceptable no matter if its done on organics, or synthetics. However, in the next dialogue its revealed, that reprogamming is not exactly brainwashing. Since both heretics and ordinary geth are ''correct'', they simply exchange infallible arguments, which make other side automatically agree.

Its a very fishy idea , though, but anyway after that dialogue, Shepard is convinced that reprogramming is not actual form of mind control. And decision is Paragon, because it allows geth to reunite with heretics, fixing their problem. On the other hand, destroying them mostly mean, that Shepard simply doesn't want geth to become stronger.

I vaguely remember that is also possible to play the mission as complete renegade, who will consider that geth are just machines, and reprogramming would be fine.

DAT SIG!

[Apathy1989]

Code_R wrote...

The lesser of two evils is still evil but ultimately the better decision opposed to mass execution.

They are ultimately rudemetry machines (not quite true AI), and the majority of the geth concensus still exists. My logic in the end was that I wouldn't want to risk contaminating the true, peaceful geth with the minds and memories of the heretics.

Plus I didn't truely trust the geth at this point. 

[Taboo]

xsdob wrote...

DAT SIG!

This is a better quote.

Act so that you always treat others as an end, and never as a means to an end only.

But of course, Control goes against that...

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 18 juin 2012 - 12:21 .

[MysticSpace]

If you recall, the heretics were going to do the same to the true geth. Turn about is fair play and all's fair in love in war.

[KingZayd]

MysticSpace wrote...

If you recall, the heretics were going to do the same to the true geth. Turn about is fair play and all's fair in love in war.

I don't disagree, but there are lots of renegade choices that would be paragon by the same rules if you were to apply the same excuse.

[Tealjaker94]

David7204 wrote...

Does it even out?

Yes. 
Rewrite:
Geth Fleet +150
Quarian Civilian Fleet -50
Quarian Heavy Fleet -50
Quarian Patrol Fleet -50
Destroy:
Geth Fleet -150
Quarian Civilian Fleet +50
Quarian Heavy Fleet +50
Quarian Patrol Fleet +50

[Baa Baa]

Lord Goose wrote...

I remember that initally Paragon objects reprogramming, stating that brainwashing is unacceptable no matter if its done on organics, or synthetics. However, in the next dialogue its revealed, that reprogamming is not exactly brainwashing. Since both heretics and ordinary geth are ''correct'', they simply exchange infallible arguments, which make other side automatically agree.

Its a very fishy idea , though, but anyway after that dialogue, Shepard is convinced that reprogramming is not actual form of mind control. And decision is Paragon, because it allows geth to reunite with heretics, fixing their problem. On the other hand, destroying them mostly mean, that Shepard simply doesn't want geth to become stronger.

I vaguely remember that is also possible to play the mission as complete renegade, who will consider that geth are just machines, and reprogramming would be fine.

Ok, thanks for clearing things up, I forgot about that second dialogue