493 réponses à ce sujet

[Belthus]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

I think that every character needs some way to take down a boss. Even a class that is better suited to crowd control or debuffing should be able to solo a lone boss to finish a wave (without using a missile).

[JohnConrad]

HS with Mattock and Valient 6,3,5,6,6.

I just play to win really if I end up been top on damage fine if bottom fine. Point for me is too work towards winning the game best you can and sometimes that can involve going rambo charging from point to point (normally if I'm playing with a team that doesn't know that you need to tag objectives) or just holding a point against anything that comes at you even if its one or two enemies leaving the other entrances to the rest of the team.

That said I'm always pushing myself in random games (and since none of my friends who own a PC will buy ME3 I'm randoming all the time ) since I don't have much faith in people till proven otherwise.... especially those damned vanguards who keep charging banshee's for a hug ¬_¬.

[lynroy]

Derek Hollan wrote...

After reading through your posts I would like to expand on this question.

Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

Again, purely subjective questions.

You can answer this in a couple ways:

1. In a random group (PUG).

2. With a set team of friends.

Cheers!

If the team is working as it should I don't worry about who's dishing out the most damage. As long as I'm doing my part helping revive teammates and doing objectives. However, in games with randoms that is very rare so I do feel the need to do the most damage and try to make sure everyone stays alive and it's less fun. Sometimes it's not as fun because people are more likely to go Rambo and try to kill everything themselves and biting off more than they can chew. I've had fun playing with randoms when everyone is trying to do objectives and not worrying about there ego.

When playing with friends I'm more likely to relax a bit and have fun because I know the people I am playing with are good and I can laugh when I do something stupid like charge an Atlas and get insta-killed. It really is more fun with friends and there is no discrepancy between what I think is fun and what I need to be for the team to succeed.

I hope that answers the questions in some sort of round about way.

Modifié par lynroy, 19 juin 2012 - 05:22 .

[TheLastDisease]

Derek Hollan wrote...
Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

No.  99% of the time, being a viable contributor to the team means being a team player.  A lot of that has to do with making sure you all stay alive and objectives get completed.  Dealing heinous amounts of damage is one way to help with those aims, but you need to make sure you aren't just overkilling enemies being focused on by others.

Debuffing/clearing the way for others to rock the enemies is equally important contribution, as is revives and healing/damage reduction (GE/AJ).

Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

Not really.  I enjoy taking on different roles.  It would be nice see some more interesting skills/powers for providing support.  It would be interesting if there was a leader-type class who was able to buff allies and possibly grant extra ammo (or maybe just speed up reloads on nearby teammates).

Again, purely subjective questions.

You can answer this in a couple ways:

1. In a random group (PUG).

2. With a set team of friends.

Cheers!

I largely play the same with randoms and friends.  Sometimes with friends, we'll coordinate our classes/loadouts to compliment each other better, but general teamwork is always more important than your specific build.

One difference betwee public and private games is that I try not to use as much in the way of equipment (I still use consumables when appropriate) because of the relative ease that stuff will get wasted on getting dropped into a terrible situation already in progress.

[Pyro666999]

Quorian male infiltrator
Granades shields, damage
cloack damage
scan-0
helth'wepon dmg

krysae/reager(most effective)
bw/wraith(most fun)
granade capacity+5

Modifié par Pyro666999, 19 juin 2012 - 05:27 .

[Alex_Dur4and]

1. To many players are victims to the scoreboard and you get judged a lot if you don't deliver with a high N7 score and die a lot. I try not to care... For me, it's a lot more fun to deal damage than to support a group. I feel more important and valuable to the team compared to setting up a bubble that no one enters the whole game...

2. Under these circumstances, I don't really care in what position I finish on the scoreboard. People know my skills and we work as a unit.

[Methew]

Derek Hollan wrote...
Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

I have no friends [insert foreveralong.jpg] so I always PuG. But no, I don't need to be the primary damage dealer to have fun.

One of my best moments was when I was playing Human Engineer. Between Area Overload with Neural Shock and Combat Drone with AoE Shock and Explosive Death, I was stunlocking whole groups of enemies and setting off Tech Bursts semi-regularly, throw on an armor debuffing Incinerate and the fact that despite all of this I placed second on the score charts?

Fantastic.

That said, low damage or heavy support classes should be able to solo a boss and whatever trash mobs remain in a wave if the rest of the party eats it. Also: While it was fantastic being a great support character, nothing quite makes me feel like crap than being on the bottom of the score charts by a significant margin. Happens every time I play FQE.

More than a few games I've gotten two immediate kick votes after trying to play her. No matter how many revives I threw out, no matter how many bosses I Cryo'd for the team.

Modifié par Methew, 19 juin 2012 - 05:37 .

[BobWalt]

Derek Hollan wrote...

After reading through your posts I would like to expand on this question.

Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

Again, purely subjective questions.

You can answer this in a couple ways:

1. In a random group (PUG).

2. With a set team of friends.

Cheers!

PUGs
I think there are a large group of players who base their gameplay totally on score.  These players kick people who do not score up to their expectations.  They basicly do not believe in support roles.  They compete with the other players to see how high they can get their individual score. What makes this even worse is the scores are not accurate.

[Taritu]

1) I don't need to be the primary damage dealer to be effective, no. I often play Vangaurds, for example, and their job isn't to deal damage, but to tank/draw aggro. I don't even have to be the best at my role, I get first place often, but certainly not always, and I'm not bothered if I don't, even if damage dealing was my primary role, so long as I contribute - if I play a Gethengineer with a healing turret, or an AJ specced defense, that's great. If I flank to take pressure off damage dealers, that's fine. If I sabotage and don't get credit, so be it.

2) A small amount. I have struggled to make the AV, my favorite class, really work on Gold, as a charging vanguard. I can usually do it, I do know that it is generally less effective than if I played a Novaguard or a Kroguard. But I don't really care, it's /less/ effective, but it's still effective enough that I contribute enough that I don't feel like I'm leeching, and do feel like I'm effective.

The only class I feel I cannot personally play effectively on gold is the FQE (I suspect I couldn't do the DV, but haven't tried).

PUGs vs. Friends: the issue is carrying, I don't have to carry my friends (well, I only have one friend I play with regularly, but he's good).  If I have to carry a group then the # of classes I can play drops significantly.  Kroguard and the various infiltrators being my go to classes for that (and I need to host to Krogaurd, so...).  This is, partially, an issue of skill.  I can't carry a group as any class, the way I've seen some people do.  So with a PUG that has proved its incompetence, or which I expect from looking at weapon layouts will be incompetent, I have to take into account effectiveness.

(I can usually carry silver on any class, but not gold)

Modifié par Taritu, 19 juin 2012 - 06:27 .

[Necrotron]

Methew wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...
Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

I have no friends [insert foreveralong.jpg] so I always PuG. But no, I don't need to be the primary damage dealer to have fun.

One of my best moments was when I was playing Human Engineer. Between Area Overload with Neural Shock and Combat Drone with AoE Shock and Explosive Death, I was stunlocking whole groups of enemies and setting off Tech Bursts semi-regularly, throw on an armor debuffing Incinerate and the fact that despite all of this I placed second on the score charts?

Fantastic.

That said, low damage or heavy support classes should be able to solo a boss and whatever trash mobs remain in a wave if the rest of the party eats it. Also: While it was fantastic being a great support character, nothing quite makes me feel like crap than being on the bottom of the score charts by a significant margin. Happens every time I play FQE.

More than a few games I've gotten two immediate kick votes after trying to play her. No matter how many revives I threw out, no matter how many bosses I Cryo'd for the team.

Indeed.  That is the main reason I don't play my female quarian engineer.  I always bottom the chart round after round, and that doesn't look good in a PuG.

Plus, they could use some love.

Side note: hate those stupid scoreboards, makes people play selfishly and do stupid things like go rambo just so they can score more "points".

Modifié par Bathaius, 19 juin 2012 - 06:26 .

[element eater]

well i always like classes which can contribute directly to the team so i tend to use qmi, aa or aja as each of these classes can support but also deal pretty heavy damage(also i love the asari). If i want pure damage output im byfar most effect with the SI/GI with rifle but i dont find it fun so i never realy use them 

Derek Hollan wrote...

Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

Sort of i dont think that its strictly required.I do however, find the destuctive power of the best damage dealers can render suport classes obselete so that youd be better of with another damage dealer then a support class in your midst unfortunately. 

Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

unfortunately yes  particular classes are simply so much more effective then others even my biotics are feelling less useful these days, although  i love my asari characters i know that im taking a step down when i switch off my infiltrators. infact id generaly say that tech characters are just much more effective and even amoung them there are some that seem totaly pointless compared to there counterparts

Edit: also as a point of referance i mostly play gold and random lobbies

Modifié par element eater, 19 juin 2012 - 07:11 .

[Lucius Aelius]

I for one have never felt any class was so utterly supportive as to stop the person playing from being expected to deal damage, certainly I use the characters that I do both because I enjoy them and am able to do well (some better than others). As it is I don't think it's practical to be unable to fight effectively, if your team wipes and leaves you to clutch, you have to be able to fight as well as not die, so for me at least I could never play a character/build that didn't have the ability to deal out significant damage (some characters I avoid because I don't enjoy them, others because they can't deal enough damage - to be viable I need both).

[ToToRoTY]

Drell Adept, because it's getting one shot anyway with the lag. Might as well do some damage before I get executed. And before you ask, constant 32ms to google.co.uk and 42ms to yahoo.co.uk. 33mbps download and 3.3mbps upload, business class internet.
Weapon, Carnifex V, because I simply cannot unlock better weapons.
Everything spec for damage.

[tanisha__unknown]

Most effective build: Infiltrator TC:6 Fitness 6 Specced for weapon damage:6 + one optional skill
On GI maxing hunter view has priority

However, when I want to have fun, I use a krogan specced for max melee damage and headbutt the hell out of enemies

I also enjoy AA incidentally, even though when you maxed stasis, warp and throw, she's the biotic artillery in the game, she's a glass artillery

[Ninefingers79]

Derek Hollan wrote...

After reading through your posts I would like to expand on this question.

Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

Again, purely subjective questions.

You can answer this in a couple ways:

1. In a random group (PUG).

2. With a set team of friends.

Cheers!

I think very briefly, the answers to your questions in scenario 1 (with a PUG) is yes and yes, and in scenario 2 (with a team of friends) is no and no.

The real issue behind playing support in PUGs is that gamers are a short-sighted bunch and will look for the lowest common denominator when determining who was effective and who was not. In the case of Mass Effect 3's multiplayer, that's score. If you score low, you're a bad player. If you score high, you're a good player.

Scoring points for assists is a step in the right direction, but still flawed in its approach. They're still points given for DEALING DAMAGE, as opposed to debuffing enemies (or buffing your teammates). Giving points for completing objectives is great, but they too fall short as the points I get for turning on a node are more or less the same I'd get for killing one Geth Pyro, and I can kill a lot more than one in the time it takes to turn on a node.

I think if scores were distributed on a more varied basis (for example, higher points for completing objectives, points for reviving teammates, for debuffing enemies (ie Tactical Scan) , for buffing allies (ie Geth Turret shield boost, Justicar sphere) and so on, then more players would feel validated in playing their favorite classes.

Mind you, this is just for PUG gaming. When playing with friends points are replaced with player appreciation, which flows freely for all sorts of hijinx. 

[Adhok42]

Derek Hollan wrote...

After reading through your posts I would like to expand on this question.

Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

Again, purely subjective questions.

You can answer this in a couple ways:

1. In a random group (PUG).

2. With a set team of friends.

Cheers!

Hell no. If there's one common variant to ALL my play styles is that's I'm an ambusher/predator. See enemy kill enemy. I do not see an enemy and go, "Screw it. Leave him to someone else." Until it dies I do not take my eyes off it. This has lead to me bunkering down and playing "Whack-a-Nemsis" in which I do not move from my position unless I am in grave danger. Until there are no more targets in my line of fire, I do not shift my line of fire. Sometimes I may not even shift positions at all (especially as a sniper) to ensure that parts of the map are "Locked Down" and only friendlies have access.

I may get 20 kills per wave because every enemy came through my sights or I may only just sit there looking stupid with no kills because I was looking the wrong way. At least I'm prepared though. I can't tell you how many wipes I've seen because all four players were facing the same way and nobody saw the half dead Assault Trooper sneak up behind us and start spamming grenades.

My only goal is simply to extract at Wave 11. If my name is in white on the scoreboard at the end. I'm mostly happy with how the run went. If I see three gold medals at the bottom of the map for the whole squad (Unknown Map, Unknown Enemy, Full Extraction) Then I am EXTREMELY happy and consider the wave a success. Successes are good because they instil me with confidence. A necessary ingrediant to future victories. If explosions, headshots, and fire played a large role in helping me with my goal then yes, I had fun and succeeded.

[MasterKad]

I recently played around with the salarian engineer and gave him the n7 eagle with capacity and armor piercing mod for constant fire and easy guardian kills.

I maxed out Energy Drain defense side/ Incinerate for single hit damage and just about 3 levels in decoy for that extra defense

[Jernau11]

I'd like to respond to these questions on a likert scale of 1 - 6

Derek Hollan wrote...
Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

I think in order to maintain my appeal as a groupmate to the largest possible audience doing the most damage is effective. This is mainly because the scoreboard is the only statistic provided on end success.

Derek Hollan wrote...
Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

1. In a random group (PUG).

Yes, but its one that a lot of practice can overcome. i.e. harder for the causal player to play a krogan setinel with a mantis on gold and be successul than it is for them to have fun.

2. With a set team of friends.

No. Especially when other players have microphones. It no longer becomes a case of thinking of it as the lowest terms. In the absense of mic's our own internal monologue takes over and it becomes easier to depersonalise the people we're playing with.

Modifié par Jernau11, 19 juin 2012 - 08:25 .

[Homey C-Dawg]

I don't need to be primary damage dealer to have fun. In fact, playing support is usually more fun for me than playing Rambo. I like to de-buff enemies and watch my team instantly notice and focus fire. I like to throw turrets or bubbles on top of teammates when they are under fire. I like when my krogan takes a rocket to the face to save an asari. I like revealing the map constantly with my MQE so my team knows where to go. etc.

[Kevlar Eater]

Human Soldier (6, 3, 6, 6, 5)

Damage, duration, shield boost
Damage, max grenades, armor piercing
Weapon damage, headshots, weapon damage
Durability, shield recharge

Harrier/Carnifex as main/side weapons. Plain, simple and I almost always top the scoreboard (on silver, I get kicked if I bring the human soldier to gold).

[squidney2k1]

1. In a PUG: I like to compliment the other players if I can when it comes to my choice of character, but my weapon selection and mods will always be dictated by my playstyle and not anyone else's. If I go into a lobby and see only one Biotic (say a Justicar) on Gold vs the Reapers, I may switch to a Biotic classto compliment...BUT that does NOT mean I will then piggyback spam with them and let them define my playstyle. If I want to run & gun as an Adept instead of constantly following the Justicar around priming everything for them to explode, then too bad. Same thing applies if we need an infiltrator on the squad: I'll do it, but it'll be my Claymore Infiltrator, and not a Black Widow camper

2. With friends: Anything goes cuz we do some silly stuff, but usually we try to either be really stupid, or outscore each other if we're feeling competitive.


In either case, there's a definite disparity between some of the classes that are necessary to beat Gold. You're going to have a hard time taking out certain bigger enemies if you lack a primary damage dealer, so if it's lacking, I will often take up that role--usually an Asari Adept or Infiltrator

[BlueA10]

My most effective class, I would have to say, is the Geth Infiltrator with the whole Melee/Claymore build. I can do more damage than most of my teammates, I can debuff enemies with proximity mine for my teammates or myself, and I can relatively easily revive teammates and complete objectives which require one person.

I DO have fun playing as this class, regardless of what others say about, but I will admit that it is a little more stressful than other classes, since if I make one wrong move, and I mean flexing my eyebrow (head flap?) the wrong way, I'll go down, and once I'm down it's hard to recover, making me a huge liability for my team. When I don't really want to play such a high risk class, I'll usually play a soldier class like Vorcha or Krogan, or a Turian Sentinel for super debuffing. I can still be effective, particularly with a Turian Sentinel, but in my opinion it doesn't match the utility of the Geth Infiltrator, for me anyways. In either case, I still have a great time.


For your other questions, I'm not really sure. Out of the game, I'd like to say that I don't feel the need to be the primary damage dealer, but once I'm playing, I feel like I have to out-score everyone, and dealing tons of damage is the primary way to do so. I DO feel like a viable contributor most of the time, though. It's like on one level I have to make sure I'm contributing to the team, and then after that I want to OUT-contribute everyone else or show how much I contributed.

To me, I can have fun in two ways. Pure carefree fun, and competitive fun. In Mass Effect 3, I have fun most of the time, by helping my team to succeed and completing all the waves and objectives, no matter the difficulty. I like to just mess around on Bronze or Silver every once and a while with different builds, like Stardusk's charge-less Krogan Vanguard, but I still want to win at the same time. And I usually have fun whether I'm with a random group, my friends, or a mix of both. In general though, a set team of friends is more ideal for a better success rate, because of communication and shared knowledge, but that's not to devalue others I meet at random in public games.

Sorry if this is confusing or cluttered, I suck at staying consistent.

Modifié par BlueA10, 19 juin 2012 - 08:55 .

[Nasulprak]

Derek Hollan wrote...

After reading through your posts I would like to expand on this question.

Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

Again, purely subjective questions.

You can answer this in a couple ways:

1. In a random group (PUG).

2. With a set team of friends.

Cheers!

Yes, I feel that I need to be a primary damage dealer to feel viable.  The alternative is long lasting who can end up soloing waves.  There isn't enough feedback or metrics to show the relevance of other effects in Silent Public groups.  If we could text between waves or in lobbies, that might be different.  If speach did not disturbe sleeping enighbors, and worked flawlessly, then there might also be more feedback.

I feel there is some discrepency between fun and success, but not too much.  Success is fun.  Different builds work better in different challenges.  Bronze is fun for all builds.  Silver is fun for good/effective builds.  I don't know Gold well enough and am unsure how effective my builds are in it.  I feel worried about trying a "fun" build in gold, and then hearing complaints about them here in the forums, because text is our best means of communication...


For the Original post, here are my effective class/builds, depending on my mood.

When I'm tired and should be in bed:
My most fun build I use are human soldiers Bazooka Joe and Bazooka Jane.  One is speced for heavy damage Concussive Shot, the other for area effect.  I'm still not sure which is "Better".
I give them a pistol specced with damage bonus and Amror Penetration so they have an answer to Brutes, Ravagers, Atlases and other big things that would otherwise be generally immune to concussive shot.

Being able to roll/dodge can help a lot.  Never running out of ammo is a pluse.  Super easy aim is good too, and can be a resfful switch afrter playing some rounds as an Innacurate Infultrator, or super late tired gaming where reflexes may be slow.

It's a versatile build that can one-hit kill targets on occasion by knocking them out of the map.  It can save teammates who are about to be stomped.  Targets it can't kill right away are usually stunned and incapable of fighting back while you continue to hit them.

I almost always play in Public Random Groups as my friends list is small.

When I play in Random Groups, I feel like I'm pulling the team through the rounds and typically end up as the top scorer.  Unless I randomly get somebody with a better build and knows how to use it.

I do feel a little sorry for the snipers though.  It can be quite difficult to hit targets that keep getting thrown around.

This build was also effective in the private lobby I played and was able to keep up with N7 2,000+ builds.


When I don't want to die anymore:
My other prefered is the Krogan Vangaurd with a Sniper Rifle.
The weapon itself is very effective and does not need race or class bonuses to win rounds.
Sepcing for Tank, you can get 1600 shields, plus a 30% damage reduction makes you very hard to kill.  Add Biotic Dash that will replenish your shields to full and you are even harder to kill.  If something gets too close, you have an effect melee with Headbutting.
This combination does not particuarly excel in any field, but can do anything, especially if you add another weapon besides a sniper rifle.  You don't need Biotic Charge very often so a slow cooldown is expected.

It can work as a good tank as neccwssary and complete objectives surrounded by enemies, so long as they don't knock him out of it.
He can also revive fallen comerades accross the map surounded by enemies.

This is not an optimized build and often gets out scored, especiallty on low accuracy days.
The feeling of invulnerability can also get to your head and you find Banshees will target you.  Backpeddaling and shooting is not fast enough and they will grab you.
Missing a Biotic Charge and landing near a banshee is also dangerous.
Hand to hand with Brutes, Phantoms, and Atlass can be fun, and semi effective as you draw fire from your teammates, but can also lead to emberassment...
 



When I'm at my peak, and have plenty of Adrenalin to spare:
On High accuracy days, Quarian Infultrator with a Black Window vs Geth is fun.  Sabotage can save the day from anywhere on the map when a teammate is in danger.  It is also a good feeling to see a Geth Prime come charging with an enterage of Pyros, and watch one of those pyros stop and start flaming the Prime.  It is also fun to see two Geth Primes shoot eachother.
Tactical Cloak makes for a good medic role and helps with objectives.
But it is a squishy class and can be hard to use.  On gold, I cannot take out Marauders because of the shield gate.  My first shot takes the shield down, my 2nd shot misses, and by the time I hit with the 3rd, their shields are partly restored.  It helps the team out a lot to take out the big things like Banshees, Brutes, Atlases, Ravagers, and primes quickly, but the team sometimes forgets the dangers of Assault Troopers, Canibals, Marauders in large numbers...

[Lopake]

Either Human Adept - Viper/phalanx
or
Asari Vanguard - Disciple with knife/ phalanx

[LadyAlekto]

Ohh expended question

In a pub

I need to do everything, i cant rely on scrubs to hold their own weight (i wonder how they havent managed to shoot themself yet)
So my prefered class would be my Revenant GI

With a set team of people i trust?

I usually play either the dealer or the sponge, my prefernce is to be the one watching everyones ass, probably doing so while eating every little bullet thrown around, all while laughing maniacally firing the revenant around (does taking the revenant count as a class choice? i don't need much else to be of use....)

So this can basically be any class with a revenant (aj, ge, hso, hse, he, tso, vorcha etc)

Modifié par ShadedPhoenix, 19 juin 2012 - 09:16 .