493 réponses à ce sujet

[Dukkhar]

Most effective class for me is the Asari Adept with a carnifex (which is really sad with all the weapons available). I play all the classes/races with varying degree of succes (some I don't even play on gold, only silver).
Since none of my friends play me3 I only play pugs. I have no need to be primary damagedealer or on top of the board, as long as I don't drag the team down. If there were any support classes I would probably play them.

[Hawat]

Human Engineer is probably the most fun class for me to play.
3/6/6/5/6 with chain overload and damage over time incinerate.
With a weapon I always choose light guns, my favourite is Tempest (probably because I don't have any other sub machine guns)

I'm simply unable to top the score table. It happened only couple of times (purely by accident, I'm sure). It's not very important to me to score high, to fell like I contribute to the team, but sometimes I feel bit silly being last with 30-40k score on bronze, but hey, I'm the crowd control guy, that tries to set up kills by stunning targets to line up shots for others. I'm preferring support role, covering others during objectives, drawing enemy fire while others deliver/hack/disable. Yeah, definitely, roaming top dps kind of player is not my cup of tea.

[Grunt_Platform]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

1. In a random group (PUG).

2. With a set team of friends.

A) In general... no. But it can be hard to feel the payoff for using debuffs on enemies, or enhancing the team since this isn't reflected in the score anywhere. Also, some of the debuffs are just underpowered. Biotic Sphere is wonderful when the team takes advantage of it. If I'm not contributing to the team's overall damage output in some positive way, I often feel useless.
A1: In a PUG, it really varies. With less skilled players, I often find myself needing to ramp up the damage for the whole team, just to fight off Brutes and Phantoms. If I can't pull melee mobs off people, or pull off risky revives, non-damage rolls just aren't as helpful as I'd like.
A2: Depends on the group, but I find playing the roaming rescue squad is often most helpful and fun with friends. I'm particularly fond of playing the Krogan Battlemaster or Vorcha Sentinel as the team medic. "HELPING!!" 

Sometimes.
B1: In PUGs, it depends on which match I get, but I often find that if I'm not a short to mid-range damage monster, my sniping and caster team-mates get demolished by Brutes. I like doing this, but I also like variety, and would like to snipe or save the day with a Geth Turret boosting shields more often.
B2: With friends, or any group using mics, this problem melts away quickly, provided they know how to take advantage. I like powerful and fun classes like the Phoenix, and I get to play it with friends pretty often.

[Josh.de]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

Dukkhar wrote...

Most effective class for me is the Asari Adept with a carnifex (which is really sad with all the weapons available). I play all the classes/races with varying degree of succes (some I don't even play on gold, only silver).
Since none of my friends play me3 I only play pugs. I have no need to be primary damagedealer or on top of the board, as long as I don't drag the team down. If there were any support classes I would probably play them.

Wow. Just.... wow.

Really? There are no support classes?

Really?

I can support you with my Turian Sentinel lvl 6, 0/0/0/5 and his lvl X FLY SWATTER  I´ve got both in a PSPack Trap.

I usually use it with great success to help teammates in gold matches as living decoy and to help melee Nemesis´es with that fly swat...when they get hit with the swatter on their xyz they even do moar uuuhhh ahhhhrr uuuhhhoorr

Modifié par Josh.de, 19 juin 2012 - 10:16 .

[TheloniusBear]

Derek Hollan wrote...

After reading through your posts I would like to expand on this question.

Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

Again, purely subjective questions.

You can answer this in a couple ways:

1. In a random group (PUG).

2. With a set team of friends.

Cheers!

I do sometimes feel my idea of fun is being over shadowed by the "need" of the MP community. It feels like all anyone wants to do is grind out games as fast as they can for "moar creditz!!!!!111!!!". I wish I had a group of friends to play with, so we could tactically complete missions, whether they are on silver or gold, instead of just everyone killing everything. Occasionally I run into team work, but for the most part, it's everyone for themselves. I like playing the engineer class the most. Any engineer. I would like to specialize in stripping shields and controlling the flow of battle. But i always end up killing everything in front of me as my "team mates" assumed I was tyring to rambo and left me instead of finishing up what I started. I like killing the bad guys as much as the next, but I also like sitting back and watching my team ravage the enemy because of something I did. The problem is, the score board is most people's driving force to perform in a givin mission. If it more accurately portrayed the contribution of the team as opposed to a straight score that corresponds with damage output, the community may benefit. Maybe even just removing the visibility of the score mid-game would probably help.

I personally would love to see more of a stat sheet as a support minded player. Instead of just kills, show us how we contributed. I see people kicked all the time for "low" score, when that was a poor indicator of a players contribution. Let's bring back the Team Mentality!!! 

[CHAw]

Derek Hollan wrote...

After reading through your posts I would like to expand on this question.

Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

I personally do not feel the need to be a primary damage dealer in a group, at least not all the time. I greatly enjoy playing support roles like medic or disabler. I do, however, find that Mass Effect 3 multiplayer tends to reward certain damage dealing roles the most.

Part of this is due to the discrepancy in credit rewards between difficulty settings. Since Gold difficulty awards the most credits per match, and usually awards the most credits per unit time, this is the standard around which many veteran players assess character builds. And because the credit rewards are affected by the time taken to complete each objective (and because there is a maximum of 75000 credits per Gold match regardless of the total time taken), the speed with which a group completes a match (or at least up to the Wave 10 objective) is used as the metric of its success.

At the same time, the gameplay mechanics of Gold difficulty tend to favor strategies involving long-range damage spikes (especially area of effect damage) and damage avoidance (as opposed to damage reduction or  "tanking"). Enemies on Gold difficulty inflict so much damage relative to player health that trying to absorb hits is a bad idea for the most part - therefore inflicting as much damage as possible during the brief windows you must leave yourself vulnerable is the predominant strategy. Armor mechanics in Mass Effect 3 only compound this issue, favoring hard-hitting weapons over less powerful rapid-fire weapons.

In addition, several powerful enemies (Atlas, Phantom, Brute, Banshee) have special attacks that can instantly down and bleed out a player in close proximity - this strongly discourages players from engaging them in close quarters, especially with melee. And these enemies appear much more frequently on Gold difficulty, which in turn more strongly discourages the use of melee builds on this difficulty. Moreover, the instant bleed out precludes other players from attempting resuscitation, which reduces the usefulness of the medic role. Then add in the fact that the instant kill can be interrupted by inflicting sufficient damage to stagger the enemy performing the execution and you're better off playing a damage dealer instead - prevention is the best cure, after all.

These same enemies (plus a few others) are also highly resistant or even outright immune to disabling attacks, whether because they are armored or because of some other special circumstance. And again, because these enemies appear more frequently on Gold, the usefulness of a disabling support character is diminished on this difficulty.

In contrast to these other roles, the ability to rapidly inflict large quantities of damage is always useful. The more quickly you can kill the enemy, the less resistance remains to impede you from completing your objectives - and that's when your objective isn't to kill the enemy.

[shepisavanguardgetoverit]

Pheonix Vanguard with wratih and canifex x. Still have around 150% cd, and longer range weapon damage. With pistol scope can target dudes halway across the map, lash em, bring em in close and either charge/wraith. Never. Gets. Old.

[xJNPSx THE WAGN]

biotic ninja drell adept. I'm getting pretty good with his absurd mobility.
6/6/3/5/6

3 in pull because pull is amazing
reave specced for armor/barrier damage at rank 6 because it eats reapers

[Yriss]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

No.

But I do feel bad when I play a character that I assume should deal a boatload of damage but end up not being able to.

The specific situation that I am thinking of was once when I played an Asari Adept on Gold. It was the Hydra map, with Randoms who decided to camp at the LZ. It is really crappy area to stay in (in my opinion) so most of the time I had to stay in cover to regenerate shields due to enemies coming from all sides, rather than throwing powers. In addition, my Warps just missed the target repeatedly. We failed that mission and I felt like I should have been able to biotic explode more things, but I guess there are some things I cannot control. Maybe I should taken cover elsewhere too, despite my team. Oh well. Live and learn.

In any case, it's not about being the one who kills the most things (which is how I interpreted your "primary damage dealer" expression), but I do feel bad if I am not helpful.

Derek Hollan wrote...

Do
you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in
multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

No. I play characters I like (fun), and I aim to succeed (reach extraction). If we don't make it, that's fine. We just try again (fun).

[GGW KillerTiger]

Due to the constant balance changes I have to say no class/weapon combo is the best. Besides all the weapons are purely under powered unless used by an over powered infiltrator. Only other effective way to kill enemies is with biotic explosions. So yea .....

[Big Yeti Cane]

Depends on whether or not I'm hosting. The gawd-awful, recycled EA servers require you to select only weapons with instant-connecting rounds unless you're the host. Even then there are problems.
So to answer the original question...

Hosting: Salarian Engineer with Decoy and Graal Spike Launcher X
Not Hosting: Salarian Engineer with Decoy and Disciple X

[ctr2yellowbird]

Derek Hollan wrote...

After reading through your posts I would like to expand on this question.

Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

Hmm. "Viable contributor" is a subjective idea. For me, I want a class with the durability to not die frequently, moreso if I separate from my teammates (or vice versa) to coordinate an attack/flank an enemy/revive a teammate/complete an objective. Dieing and forcing teammates out of their comfort zone, even mentally, is clearly NOT contributing . If I'm going to play a glass cannon, let it be one like the Geth with Hunter Mode, an Asari with Stasis, or a class with something like Concussive Shot that I can spam to forcefully delay enemies. Knockback-inducing weapons might also translate somewhat into creating a friendly-enemy buffer zone, but I don't use them. Still, that's just a countermeasure to negative contribution, a prerequisite, I guess.

As I stated in my other post in this thread, a player's contribution to their team, of which the capacity for teamwork is a subset, is (a series of) "conscious decision[s]" now with player skill applied to the equation. If we were to remove intangibles like player skill and capacity for teamwork from that equation, then a player's potential damage output absolutely has a direct bearing on their effectiveness--quite possibly a linear correlation--which in turn must impact a player's viability to contribute to their team.

Also, I'm not sure what else a player would be if not a "primary damage dealer." I just don't think in those terms. Experience in other games has taught me that the best players try do everything within their power with what they have. Limiting one's damage output in favor of a "support" or defensive role can bolster a team's stability, but this game presents few obvious and ready mechanics to do so, and, with enemies often in plain sight, a player can still take many supportive actions while still contributing strongly on offense. Also, I've come to understand the purpose of support/defensive roles as "playing to not lose," which becomes quite tedious and underwhelming even at the pinnacle of (FPS) gaming.

This game has reasonable balance with a few poignant exceptions, so most classes should perform marginally within the same established baseline of eachother. In regards to those exceptions, I feel no need to implement those "primary damage dealers" in the name of merely "contributing." It's been proven that all classes have some modicum of viability even on Gold, and so I would prefer the challenge of playing what I like than something that's easier that I might not like. Otherwise... differences in damage output should be mostly negligible, and I won't base my character selection on just that.

Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

Again, purely subjective questions.

You can answer this in a couple ways:

1. In a random group (PUG).

2. With a set team of friends.

Cheers!

Fun in multiplayer? I have a hard enough time finding a multiplayer game with the variety to even BE replayable, let alone fun at the same time. So my idea of fun in MP might be skewed. Having said that, I told my friend about ME3's demo, I planned to get it soon, saw him play it in MP, then I went and got it sooner. I still think it's fun. What wouldn't be fun, though, is stale gameplay like farming FBWGG or playing the game out to the point of exhaustion, an eventuality which is the real elephant in the room for ME3 MP.

"What I need to be in order to succeed?" I play Silver specifically so this is not an issue. I'll move onto Gold when and if I feel like it. I know I'm more than capable, that's not the issue here; but rather, I want to extend this game's shelf life. And like I said above, "It's been proven that all classes have some modicum of viability even on Gold," so I shouldn't "need" anything extra to succeed. What may be arguable as "what you feel you need to be in order to succeed" would be the superiority of some guns over others. I don't need to use those guns, but I'll use the ones that I know work and also suit my playstyle. Still, that doesn't have much bearing on my fun in MP, although it wouldn't hurt to have more (effective) guns that I like to choose from.

What I wish for is a fully blown ME3 (or similar) MP expansion from BioWare to perhaps add more gametypes and even more weapons/classes/powers in a system that won't become bloated by having that much content, another issue that I foresee with ME3 MP, ultimately giving this game the longevity that it deserves.

[Jonathan Shepard]

Most effective?
Either Drell Vanguard (yup) with any 200% cool down speed weapon, or Geth Infiltrator with a Krysae.

Most Fun?
All the Vanguards.
Batarian Soldier can be really fun against the Reapers, too.

[aerowars617]

To answer Bioware questions in turn:

Q1) Although you consider it your most effective build / weapon combination, is it also the one you are most entertained with?
My most effective sofar is tied between the Salarian Infiltrator with Claymore or the Geth Infiltrator with Kryse. and NO, neither of these are my most entertaining classes, I'm most entertained by the Vorcha Sentinel with Reegar or a Krogan Sentinel with Graal Spike Thrower

Q2) Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?
No, playing as a Krogan Vanguard as support is good as you can keep pressure off the snipers in the team

3) Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?
Definately, and the truth boils down to the Random Pack system... I constantly have to play classes that are very successful but are no longer fun for me because I want to get X gun or Y character card... I take breaks with silver games with classes I genuinely want to play with for fun, but until I unlock what I want I usually play damage dealing infiltrators on Gold for the endless cash to feed the endlessly random reward system!!!

I hope Bioware look at these answers for positive change (either to the random pack system or to the weaker but more fun characters), not to suddenly NERF all the best builds we list here... ***cough***infiltrator***cough*** Nerfing isn't the solution!

[Techo Angel]

Asari Adept with a Good Heavy Pistol specced into Head shots.

Statis and Aim right and even with out a scope I still am starting to score at least 10 head-shots most matches if not 20. Warp to set up throw Combo Bombs, use the 5 evo for instant cooldown and I can Warp after every Bomb to keep the Combo going.

[Dukkhar]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

Dukkhar wrote...

Most effective class for me is the Asari Adept with a carnifex (which is really sad with all the weapons available). I play all the classes/races with varying degree of succes (some I don't even play on gold, only silver).
Since none of my friends play me3 I only play pugs. I have no need to be primary damagedealer or on top of the board, as long as I don't drag the team down. If there were any support classes I would probably play them.

Wow. Just.... wow.

Really? There are no support classes?

Really?

Well, you have the geth engineer that can be speced for healing If everyone agree  to stand still close to the turret, otherwise, no, there are no true support classes. There are some classes that add some debuffs and a small amount of crowd control but that's not their main function, thats just how they deal damage faster and sometimes others might get helped by that too. (Salarian Engineer with decoy on FBWGG is a support class but I don't play FBWGG unless by accident) There are no class that buff any other player, add ammo, heals, can draw instant aggro etc...

But I guess this argument will only be about semantics regarding what is a support class or not and english isn't my first language so if having the ability in a class to add a warp/cryo/tactical scan-debuff is support class than there are support classes in ME3 and I was wrong.

[Gamemako]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

In theory, absolutely not. In practice... well, kinda. The issue is fairly complex, however. The main problem is that CC takes a huge backseat to damage-dealing due to the huge modifiers available to characters and weapons. Submission Net may disable an enemy for 10-15 seconds, but what do you need it for when the Gethfiltrator with a Claymore next to you just took off all his shields, all his HP, and overkilled by 2000 damage? Characters, especially Infiltrators (but not limited to, as most of the damage bonus comes from mods), can deal enough damage to make CC rather superfluous. The thing that contributes most to your team is is damage-increasing tools like offensive Biotic Sphere, Warp's Expose evolution, and Proximity Mine's Damage Taken bonus. So yeah, that makes those who are not primary damage-dealers somewhat... purposeless.

However, you still can succeed even in the absence of these players. You can go through Gold spamming power detonations and disabling skills. It will be slow and much less effective (and may cost more consumables), but you'll make it through. So yeah, on a relative scale, you're holding everyone back, but you're still able to do enough to succeed.

Derek Hollan wrote...

Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

Undoubtedly, yes. If I want to be effective in Gold, I pull out one of my shotgun infiltrators (because I hate sniper rifles). I run around just plain crushing things with bullets and proxy mines. If I want to have fun, I play a Vanguard -- usually a Drellguard. However, Drellguards have nothing to contribute on Gold because their targets, the weaker opponents who deliver covering fire, don't exist. So ultimately, I go back to Silver for fun because I can roll things on Silver and not have to cower from every enemy that spawns after Wave 3.

[Finnegone]

Most devastating?

Any class / race + Krysae. Once you've got the reload cancel and the zoom / rapid pop-pop mechanic worked out, the bazooka is bar none the most powerful weapon in the game. It's also light enough to keep your CD's low. Throw in an amp or ammo power if you're on gold.

Most effective? Hard to choose. I always pick my character based upon what my team might need - direct damage, support, biotic synergy, etc. These are my go-to's

- AJA 6/6/4/6/4 with defensive bubble, reave specced for defense, and a Revenant or Saber.
- AA 6/6/6/5/3 specced for BE, stasis bubble, and a talon with a scope mod
- SI 6/6/4/6/4 specced for max damage, PM radius and debuff, and a BW. ED specced for radius.
- Phoenix A 0/6/6/6/6 specced for fun. Any weapon, provided it's light enough, will do.
- GI 4/6/6/6/4 with a claymore or wraith. Either will do the trick nicely; I prefer the latter most of the time
- GE 6/6/0/6/6 specced for offensive flamethrower turret, multi-channel overload, and a good heavy pistol
- VS or VSent. Ignore flamer, max carnage or cluster nades, and carry whatever weapon(s) you like.
- HSoldier, with whatever weapon I feel like trying out. AR is a wonderful thing
- Finally, if I'm feeling lucky, the DA is great fun. I have old man reflexes, though, so I tend to crap out a lot

I tend to avoid the linebacker races (Krogan, Batarian, Turian), as they simply don't have enough mobility for me. Also, I've met a lot of good (and a lot more bad) vanguards; I'm in the latter category.

Modifié par Finnegone, 20 juin 2012 - 12:15 .

[jules_vern18]

Drell Adept.  I still don't know why more people don't play this class.

Cerberus Harrier w/capacity and stabilization module
0 ranks in pull, max everything out for force/damage/radius, fitness for barriers/health
Grenade capacity II gives me 5 clusters max

Reave + headshots, biotic explosion all the things.  Unstoppable if paired with an AA.

Yeah it's a squishy build, but it's not a big problem as long as you keep moving (can outrun turrets).  Move from ammo box to ammo box and deal as much AOE damage as possible.

Owns every map I play on silver and is awesome in close-quarters maps on Gold.  Inb4 weak vs. Geth - reave is more useful for staggering/BE setup than it ever was for draining health.

Armored targets (particularly atlases) are the main weakness for this build, but the Harrier chews through armor relatively well if you have access to a nearby ammo box.

tl;dr:  Drell Adept ftw.

[Kloreep]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Do you feel you need to be a primary damage dealer in order to be a viable contributor to your team?

No, flat out no.

Since this is clearly where your line of questioning has been going, however, I will say, that I don't think there are a ton of other ways to be a viable contributor. Off the top of my head, I can think of these:

-Buff other's damage: Warp, tactical scan, etc.
-Buff other's defense: Geth Engineer, and to some extent AJA - though I gotta say I've come to view the defensive aspects of Sphere as pretty weak, radius just can't become big enough to allow teammates much room. One grenade and you're all outta there.
-Stop/distract opponents: Stasis, Submission Net, chain-evolved Overload, Decoy and to some extent Turrets & Drones or Cryo Blast.

Damage buffing is never a very strong thing, both because it's rare you'll have everyone focused on one target, and because the buff never exceeds 25% or so. So you still want to be a good damage dealer yourself in order to to be viable IMO. Likewise, Gethgineer is the only viable defense buffer IMO. That leaves halting/distraction as the only really viable non-damage dealer besides the Gethgineer.

I suppose you could say that there's Tanking. But I'd say the only viable tankers, at least past Bronze, are Vanguards with Charge's 100% barrier restore, so that tends to go hand in hand with damage dealing.

Derek Hollan wrote...

Do you feel there is a discrepancy between your idea of fun in multi-player and what you feel you need to be in order to succeed?

Not as a whole. Sometimes there are indeed playstyles I like but can't seem to get to work well. For instance, I have trouble feeling effective with Krogan, Singularity, or Shockwave, even though I like them in theory. But I don't feel pushed to characters I don't even like - there's plenty of effective-enough characters I can go to.

Modifié par Kloreep, 20 juin 2012 - 12:53 .

[Star fury]

Geth infiltrator.
Weapon: Krysae, Reegar, or any other sniper rifle. Also Striker with tac cloak exploit.

[Digitalis32]

Krogan Vanguard/soldier

Both armed with the wraith - I used to use the Evisceratior.I don't have the shredder mod yet otherwise I would be using the Claymore.

I prefer to play "tank" classes, that way I can dish out the damage and still be able to walk into a dangerous situation and help out if someone needs to be revived.

Modifié par Digitalis32, 20 juin 2012 - 08:39 .

[waakeegan]

My most effective class might be the Asari Justicar equipped with an Assault Rifle Amp and a Mattock. My build is 6/6/6/6/0. Full offense bubble, radius/BE Pull, radius/dmg and DR Reave, power duration and power damage with decreased assault rifle weight, and no fitness. Many of you will ask "Why no Fitness?" Because I don't need it! The DR I get from Reave makes up for the 500 hp and 600 shields I have as default. For unshielded enemies I spam Pull and Reave and for big boys I get close, bubble, move back, reave and gun them down. Almost always top the charts with this build. For Thessia!

[ParadoxFaet]

QMI/SI with my Valiant II for gold. Rips Cerberus infantry apart.

Basically any other build for Silver. QME and PA are fun AND effective.