167 réponses à ce sujet

[Blind2Society]

Now I don't know how many people will agree with me on this but I am going to share my feelings anyway.

First off I would like to say that I still feel the BE nerf of a while back was completely uncalled for.

Now for the meat of the thread and the reason I'm typing it. I think our little Asari Adept could use some help in the form of a buff. Exactly what that buff would entail I don't yet know but I would like to discuss it none the less.

I want to state the many things working against our little blue angels and maybe other s will agree they need a buff of some sort.

First, and the most obvious, they are some seriously squishy little aliens and with the amount of enemies on a map at any one time, it can become a serious issue. Having said that, I don't really think health nor shields are what any buff would need to adress.

Next, the sheer amount of people that think blue enemies = shoot/tech this one. Now I'm sure many Asari would agree that this is quite the nuisance, and even more so now given the addition of the Krysae (and no, this is not a krysae discussion).

Now, the enemies that can simply stop powers from hitting them. I'm talking about phantoms and banshees here (and any others I may have forgotten about). This is another thing working against the AA. With phantoms one can simply stasis + shoot them and them blocking powers also leaves them vulnerable but the fact remains that an AA's main forces of offense doesn't work on them.

As for the banshees, yes when they block powers it stops them using warp but an Asari can dodge warp quite efficiently anyway so that's moot. The main issue with banshees blocking powers is that it lasts even while they are moving/attacking you and they can't be hit with stasis. Add this to the multitude of other things the banshee has going for her (cough teleporting through walls and magnet hands cough) and it becomes somewhat irritating at times.

Lastly, and I'm sure others can come up with more reasons, the most irritating thing of all. The amount of times warp misses for no reason. If an enemy is walking it will miss, if an enemy is in cover it will miss and sometimes it will just not warp the target even if it clearly hits them. Add this to the fact that enemies dodge so often and our little Asari just becomes a bullet sponge (a rather ineffective bullet sponge at that).

Seriously, if an enemy dodges warp will miss no matter what, even if they dodged late or early.

So those are my reasons for saying our lonely Asari Adepts could use a buff of some kind.

Anyone else agree or have anything to add?

EDIT TO CLARIFY MY ISSUE WITH THE AA: The issue I have with the AA and the true intention of this thread is warp "missing" even though it clearly hit. The other things stated in this post are simply there to show that warp "missing" so often is unjustified and I have no real issue with them themselves.

That said, this thread is still open to any discussion you desire in relation to the AA, but remember be respectful and it is good practice to read the whole thread before comment to see how the discussion has evolved.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 21 juin 2012 - 09:52 .

[Komcpc]

While I still do see Asari Adepts (I play Justicar almost exclusively) they do seem to be scoring lower and lower nowadays.

[Blind2Society]

I think that's a combination of the things I mentioned and the lack of good biotic partners.

[Ares Caesar]

Nah, they dont need a buff, they're still pretty bad@s$.

A few things should be considered when talking about the Asari Adept;

1) A lot of other biotic classes have been added AND the weaker ones have been buffed enough to be useful, giving people FAR more choices when wanting to play a biotic character than before when the AA was one of the only really good Adepts.

2) Dont bother warping anything that can roll/dodge/avoid, when you can Stasis instead. It has a longer cooldown BUT it doesnt miss, and the combined cooldown time for Stasis+Throw is shorter than either Throw(miss)+Warp+Throw or Warp(miss)+Warp+Throw. It isnt as strong of a biotic combo, but its far more reliable. This is definitely a common mistake many people make when playing Geth or Cerberus, which have incredibly high evasion rates.

3) Asari also tends to feel a bit "weaker" because they're one of the most power dependent classes, in that you almost have to max out Stasis, Warp, and Throw, meaning you wont have many points for Fitness. This tends to make them "Glass Cannons" unlike a lot of other Adepts which seem to have abilities that you can afford to skip or not maximize, leaving more points for Fitness.

Honestly, a well played Asari Adept still absolutely wrecks Cerberus and Reapers, and is still quite useful against Geth... and like ALL biotic classes, is ALWAYS better when another biotic class is on the team (Strength in numbers).

[Cyonan]

I think fixing the dodging thing would be all that they need. They could even make Warp an instant like Reave is. It wouldn't let them do damage any faster, just more reliably since things could only dodge Throw which has a very short CD.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

The enemy dodge rate against Warp/Throw really needs to be turned down.

Then you have the times when an enemy is hit directly with Warp or Throw and it simply doesn't work. Warp has got to be the most unpredictable power in the game. You really never know whether it'll work or not, even if angled/aimed perfectly.

[Blind2Society]

I knew there would be people that would disagree and though you make some points I don't really agree.

1) Yes there are lot more options for biotic classes now and that's a good thing, but there is a reason why Asari Adept seem to be going extinct. The other classes are more effective as Asari Adepts spend most of the time missing with their powers and it's no fault of their own.

2) Stasis + throw does next to nothing on gold and almost every enemy either evades or is not affected by stasis. Add that to the fact that enemies tend to fall out of stasis before throw is even ready.

3) Even with full fitness on an AA really only adds about no survivability. On gold you're dead just as fast. But honestly, the lack of health/shields on an AA would be justified given her damage output potential if her damage output potential was so inconsistent.

That said I still do believe the AA is a great class and I love playing it but without a partner the class leaves a lot to be desired. And I don't think balance should be based on a class having a partner.

[Blind2Society]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

The enemy dodge rate against Warp/Throw really needs to be turned down.

Then you have the times when an enemy is hit directly with Warp or Throw and it simply doesn't work. Warp has got to be the most unpredictable power in the game. You really never know whether it'll work or not, even if angled/aimed perfectly.

Yeah, this pretty much sums it up.

[Mandolin]

Agree about the dodging - it's the reason I rarely play the AA any more. Some games it seems that every second warp or throw is dodged or doesnt register.

[Blind2Society]

Which is why I think it's unbalanced. She too squishy to justify how often her powers miss. (and I don't think her squishyness is the problem)

Modifié par Blind2Society, 18 juin 2012 - 06:01 .

[soldo9149]

I'm sorry sometimes odd player vision's hurts my eye's so i tend to shoot anything that moves. Geth vision is evil but I love seeing though walls sadily

[JiceDuresh]

I just played with an Asari Adept who must not have speced throw, cause while we were both spaming warp, nothing got exploded cept when the vanguard charged, I'd have done it myself but Overload doesn't exactly explode anything.

So low scoring Asari, are probably the fault of the player, not the class, cause I can still top scoreboards with Human sentinels which are esentially the same thing without the temptation to take a sniper rifle.

[Mojenator12345]

Agree on all points. The AA's BEs have become extremely unreliable.

[Methew]

Blind2Society wrote...
I still feel the BE nerf of a while back was completely uncalled for.

I was two peicing Brutes on Silver a day ago.

[Mandolin]

No doubt the class is still powerful but annoying to play due to the %ge of misfires. If you're a lone biotic things can get frustrating pretty fast. If you have another biotic on the team however it's like christmas came early.

[SneakyDuc]

Blind2Society wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

The enemy dodge rate against Warp/Throw really needs to be turned down.

Then you have the times when an enemy is hit directly with Warp or Throw and it simply doesn't work. Warp has got to be the most unpredictable power in the game. You really never know whether it'll work or not, even if angled/aimed perfectly.

Yeah, this pretty much sums it up.

I concur I've seen it so many times you hit the enemy with warp/throw and upon impact nothing happens then they roll and shoot me in the chest. Also on the subject of dodging needs work can't tell you how many times I've side stepped a missle only to get damaged from it anyway. 

[Ziegrif]

I don't remember if warp was able to aoe in mass effect 2 but I can't play classes with no aoe capabilities and to me Asari adepts biotic eplosions compared to justicars sphere and reave pale in comparison. She may be popular but there are just too many more attractive options like the new cerbs. Also I'm all for buffing warp the projectile speed especially also to me the cds for asaris warp and stasis are pretty horrible even with 200% cd, gimping you to only use pistols or the vindicator or phaeston or hurricane. Yours truly the Turian sentinel specced for overload and with 3 points in warp just in case an asari pops into the group.

[Audey]

Not a good class for pugs unless your lucky. i find i play the AA from behind somebody else. firing stasis off at just about every viable target. if that target then gets ripped up by the chap im stood behind then thats all good.no harm, bad guy is dead and on to the next.

Its when i look around to check flanks and keep up my end of the bargain that i come full circle and discover my lead guard as buggered off. leaving me high and dry. the AA really do take "squishy" to the next level.

its also kinda embarrasing having to be revived LOTS of time due to the warp failing/being dodged.maybe i'll drop back into bronze for random games with my AA . . with buddies i have alot less problems, as we run synergistic classes, and just knowing they wont move without saying on the mic.

[megawug]

Is the randomly not working BE a new bug in 1.0.3? I seem to remember it was more reliable in the past.

[Blind2Society]

I really only ever use stasis on phantoms, guardians (to remove shield) and hunters. I don't usually attack these enemies I just do it to make life easier for my teammates. Guardians, I send a throw at them as that BE will kill them.

I also use it on enemies that are blindsiding my teammates.

@megawug: It's not really the BEs it's warp itself.

[Taritu]

Part of it is that as power users they were relatively more powerful back when people didn't have unlocked high level guns and before the DLC guns. However, overall I agree. The nerf was unneeded. I play with Krysae users and they gib a group of mobs before I can even get off my explosion, and the Krysae can't be dodged.

the simple solution would be to reverse the nerf. A decrease in dodging would be nice. Or at least, stop with the dodging biotic powers from behind. Nothing more annoying than that.

As it stands right now an AA is very dependent on having a cooperative teammate.

[Ares Caesar]

Blind2Society wrote...

I knew there would be people that would disagree and though you make some points I don't really agree.

1) Yes there are lot more options for biotic classes now and that's a good thing, but there is a reason why Asari Adept seem to be going extinct. The other classes are more effective as Asari Adepts spend most of the time missing with their powers and it's no fault of their own.

2) Stasis + throw does next to nothing on gold and almost every enemy either evades or is not affected by stasis. Add that to the fact that enemies tend to fall out of stasis before throw is even ready.

3) Even with full fitness on an AA really only adds about no survivability. On gold you're dead just as fast. But honestly, the lack of health/shields on an AA would be justified given her damage output potential if her damage output potential was so inconsistent.

That said I still do believe the AA is a great class and I love playing it but without a partner the class leaves a lot to be desired. And I don't think balance should be based on a class having a partner.

1) Plenty of enemies cant dodge/evade powers - Brutes, Ravagers, Banshees, Atlas, Geth Prime, Turret, Cannibals, Husks. Considering most of those enemies are high damage output enemies as well as high health, the fact that the Asari Adept can reliably Warp+Throw them makes them plenty viable and valuable.

2) Stasis is insta-cast... it cant be avoided, and only 1 enemy cant be stasised that actually dodges Warp+Throw (Geth Pyros). While I will agree that people seem to shoot your stasised targets too often (not headshotting), I disagree that it does "next to nothing on Gold" as thats a total load of BS. Throw in ONE Carnifex/Paladin headshot between Stasis+Throw and most enemies are nearly dead, which is the same outcome as Warp+Throw. You're highly underselling the reliability and effectiveness of Stasis+Throw(or Warp).

3) No matter what anyone says there IS a difference between full fitness and no fitness. However, most good players know when to take cover, which can lower the value of fitness since you wont be getting hit. Considering the class has some of the longest ranged powers in the game, and many other classes are just as frail with shorter range abilities, I dont see this as a problem.


ADD: I should mention one other LARGE problem when playing Asari Adept or Human Sentinal is TECH powers/ammo. Nothing is worse than someone spamming Chain Overload or using Disruptor Ammo. While you can always Warp+Throw+Throw, the fact you HAVE to spend more time to achieve the same outcome, definitely cuts into the DPS output of the class.

While I love playing the Asari Adept, and would not complain about it getting buffed, I really dont think its necessary, as its still one of the best classes in the game when played well.

Modifié par Ares Caesar, 18 juin 2012 - 06:27 .

[count_4]

The only valid point is the power-dodging/missing. Some enemies have an insane dodge chance(up to 90%-100% under some circumstances) and the lag- and bug-induced misses are annoying as hell.

Everything else is fine, though. Hell, my little lady is killing Brutes & Ravagers with two warp/throw cycles and Pyros in one. That's about as much damage as I need.
Sure it's a tad squishy and has some problems vs. Banshees and shields in general at times but then it's a coop game. Pair an AA with about any other class and you wreak havoc no matter who or what is thrown at you.

Now, I won't be complaining about a buff but I don't feel it is needed. Just a fix for the BE bugs and we're good.

As for the fitness question, I'll shamelessly refer you to my signature. 

Modifié par count_4, 18 juin 2012 - 06:32 .

[Ygolnac]

I agree the enemy evade ratio is too high, but i can leave with it. In many matches i scored nothing in the first two waves but when things got bad i have been thanked for my BEs.

The really bad and frustrating thing is when you succesfully warped something and throw hits but causes no BE. I play AA a lot and i dare to say that 15-20% of times i've got no BE for no reason.That is a bug that makes playing the class more and more frustrating.

It's not you made mistakes.
It's not an enemy exploited a weakness of your class.
It's not the team isn't working.
It's a damned glitch, you cause nearly no dmg and have to expose your frail blue ass again and then you're dead.

I think this is why players are abandoning AA, i myself tend to play with AJ more and more. At least is the more durable biotic and if everything fails my revenant is doing serious dmg anyway.

[drmoose00]

nothing to add. I wrote a post about it a few days ago. I agree completely that something needs to change, to make the AA more useful. I rarely play it anymore - whereas I used to a lot when I started gold, and I would always do quite well.

Now, with all the Krysae splash damage and the insane dodges wreaking havoc on the DPS, unless I am with a bunch of newbs, I am lucky to score 40k sometimes. This weekend  I did a bunch of characters in conseciutive gold matches, AJA, GI, SI, and KV, and scored 100k+, at the top in all of them (the AJA had an AA on the team). I can't remember the last time I scored 100k+ in gold with the little AA.

Prob the easiest/best solution would be warp being instant, like reave.  edit: I agree with the below poster that the ability to hit enemies behind cover is preferable

Modifié par lemon00, 18 juin 2012 - 06:36 .