160 réponses à ce sujet

[Ageless Face]

Bill Casey wrote...

Shepard rounded up a bunch of random aliens he met five minutes ago at a bus stop and let them on a top secret highly classified warship. Sure the C-Sec guy is probably legit, but then there's a gun for hire, a tourist, and Benezia's daughter...

Even though everything works out, at least one character should be questioning this...

The Council proves itself to be more interested in protecting their own races than others. Ashley just ends up being right on that one...

And Shepard is a Cerberus zombie. Ashley is justified to be suspicious of him...


She is contentious, fiery, opinionated and a little paranoid...
The perfect Lancer...

Plus, this scene trumps anything Kaidan does...

Click - Ashley gets plastered

Agreed with you up until the link. That scene was a major character assasination.

[Bill Casey]

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLancer

"I see you are the surly, temperamental one who instigates, Wolverine. You cannot be the leader, then."
—Azazel, The Uncanny X-Men

The lieutenant and Foil for The Hero.

This is the member of the Five-Man Band who is most likely to not be a team player.

He's the one who sneaks off on his own to advance the team's goals independently.

If The Complainer Is Always Wrong and there's a chronic complainer to act as the show's Butt Monkey, it's likely this guy.

It's becoming more and more common for this character to be female, either merged with, or contrasted with, The Chick. Having The Lancer be the other side to The Hero's coin is also fairly common. Having the character who is both most like and most unlike The Hero also being the strongest woman can create UST.

Modifié par Bill Casey, 19 juin 2012 - 05:28 .

[goodventure]

jijeebo wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Meh, I watched her getting shot on youtube followed by a gloriously mature "I hope the reapers send you straight to hell." or something.

If someone shoots you, will you be mature about it?

I would if they looked like Sheploo.


Plus, Kaidan handled it like a pro when he got shot by low-trust Shepard.

What does Kaidan say when shot by a low-trust Shepard?

I never knew Ashley could tell Shepard to go "straight to hell." Does Kaidan say something like this too? I can't find a video on it!

[MegaSovereign]

Bill Casey wrote...

Shepard rounded up a bunch of random aliens he met five minutes ago at a bus stop and let them on a top secret highly classified warship. Sure the C-Sec guy is probably legit, but then there's a gun for hire, a tourist, and Benezia's daughter...

Even though everything works out, at least one character should be questioning this...

The Council proves itself to be more interested in protecting their own races than others. Ashley just ends up being right on that one...

And Shepard is a Cerberus zombie. Ashley is justified to be suspicious of him...


She is contentious, fiery, opinionated and a little paranoid...
The perfect Lancer...

Plus, this scene trumps anything Kaidan does...

Click - Ashley gets plastered

No, Shepard is space Jesus.

Okay. OKAY. So MAYBE her suspcious behavior in the 2ND game was justified. She was geniunely worried that Cerberus was behind the Collector attacks somehow...I get that.

But after the events of ME2, it's clear from the official report that Shepard stopped the Collectors and saved humanity. However, she is just as ****y if not more in ME3. It's irrational and stupid. Clearly Cerberus troops are shooting at Shepard. And SHE WAS THERE when Shepard confronted TIM on Mars. Yet she still thinks that Shepard is a Cerberus mole or some ****.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 19 juin 2012 - 05:30 .

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Anyone who believes Ashley is a racist is too stupid to have a proper argument with. Plus that is like so 5 years ago.

She's not only a racist. She's also a hypocrite. She hates Shepard for being part of a pro-human group despite being pro-human herself.

And yea you're right. Instead of just not trusting aliens, she doesn't even trust Shepard anymore. She goes from being a racist to being completely insane.

More reasons to kill her off.

She doesn't trust aliens not because they are aliens but because they are not members of the system's alliance, much in the same way a you wouldn't trust an Iranian to be on the USS Independance. Plus she is the one who advocates saving the council if you bring her along on the final mission in me 1

[Ageless Face]

MegaSovereign wrote...

No, Shepard is space Jesus.

Okay. OKAY. So MAYBE her suspcious behavior in the 2ND game was justified. She was geniunely worried that Cerberus was behind the Collector attacks somehow...I get that.

But after the events of ME2, it's clear from the official report that Shepard stopped the Collectors and saved humanity. However, she is just as ****y if not more in ME3. It's irrational and stupid. Clearly Cerberus troops are shooting at Shepard. And SHE WAS THERE when Shepard confronted TIM on Mars. Yet she still thinks that Shepard is a Cerberus mole or some ****.

And if Shepard had a chip inside him/her? It's not like Cerberus wouldn't do such a thing. You've seen what they did to their agents. Ashley and Kaidan can't take risks. You think everyone should just believe Shepard? No sane person would even think to trust someone who worked with terrorists just a few months ago. The fact Shepard got his/her job back in the Alliance is idiotic enough. 

In Shepard's POV, Kaidan and Ashley are being unreasonable. In reality, they are being sane.

[Seifer006]

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Anyone who believes Ashley is a racist is too stupid to have a proper argument with. Plus that is like so 5 years ago.

She's not only a racist. She's also a hypocrite. She hates Shepard for being part of a pro-human group despite being pro-human herself.

And yea you're right. Instead of just not trusting aliens, she doesn't even trust Shepard anymore. She goes from being a racist to being completely insane.

More reasons to kill her off.

She doesn't trust aliens not because they are aliens but because they are not members of the system's alliance, much in the same way a you wouldn't trust an Iranian to be on the USS Independance. Plus she is the one who advocates saving the council if you bring her along on the final mission in me 1

Another thing I see so often, it boggles my mind

the misconception of how she hates Wrex. She doesn't shoot Wrex because she's racist. She shoots Wrex cause Shepard told her too.

So hate Shepard.....

Modifié par Seifer006, 19 juin 2012 - 05:48 .

[Applepie_Svk]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Killing her in Mass Effect 3 is more satisfying.

Ah lol you are my kind of guy ... otherwise - yeah it was better to deal with her personaly ...

[Gexora]

I LOVED Ash in Mass Effect 1. Seriously, I did. She was one of my favorite squaddies. And I was eager to meet her in Mass Effect 3 even after I saw how ****ing awful she was going to look.
But after the first act of the game all I wanted to do was just shoot the ****ing **** in the head. I held back, but just barely

[WhiteKnyght]

She's a hot piece of booty. That's why.

Also funny, James will get Ashley drunk, and he'll take everything but Kaidan's clothes from him in a game of poker. I wonder if James and Ashley did anything before she conked out and woke with the hangover.

[Commander Castillo]

"Good to See You" "Good to See You" "Good to See You" Good to See You" "Good to See You" Good to See You" Good to See You" Good to See You" "Good to See You" *pulls out gun*

[Doctoglethorpe]

I'm sure at least 75%+ players saved her because *shrug*******

[Ironhandjustice]

LateNightSalami wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...
EDIT:

Seriously though. Killing her is so damn satisfying. Something cathartic about killing dumb space racist hicks..

This isn't a direct slam on you as I do not know who you romanced but more of a commentary on people's perspective of ashley:

I like the concept of the person who hates ahsley for being (rather mildly) xenophobic but love tali...I think it was tali who was openly calling for the extermination of an entire synthetic race. Ashley in ME1 was just wary about aliens (who themsleves were suspicious of man) being on the most advanced ship in the alliance fleet.

This is a direct slam on you:

So you kill her as opposed to taking the dialogue options that actively change her views and further show her to be an educated individual?

Wait why am I taking this post seriously...damnit...successful troll is succelful

edit: Whoops realized that I quoted the wrong post quote corrected.

This.

And I saved her because:

-She is hot (Liara sucks)
-She is sincere
-She doesn't have complexes.
-Xenophobia is normal when aliens shoot you first (Turians) and almost destroyed your family.

[LateNightSalami]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Shepard rounded up a bunch of random aliens he met five minutes ago at a bus stop and let them on a top secret highly classified warship. Sure the C-Sec guy is probably legit, but then there's a gun for hire, a tourist, and Benezia's daughter...

Even though everything works out, at least one character should be questioning this...

The Council proves itself to be more interested in protecting their own races than others. Ashley just ends up being right on that one...

And Shepard is a Cerberus zombie. Ashley is justified to be suspicious of him...


She is contentious, fiery, opinionated and a little paranoid...
The perfect Lancer...

Plus, this scene trumps anything Kaidan does...

Click - Ashley gets plastered

No, Shepard is space Jesus.

Okay. OKAY. So MAYBE her suspcious behavior in the 2ND game was justified. She was geniunely worried that Cerberus was behind the Collector attacks somehow...I get that.

But after the events of ME2, it's clear from the official report that Shepard stopped the Collectors and saved humanity. However, she is just as ****y if not more in ME3. It's irrational and stupid. Clearly Cerberus troops are shooting at Shepard. And SHE WAS THERE when Shepard confronted TIM on Mars. Yet she still thinks that Shepard is a Cerberus mole or some ****.

Depending on your dialogue options with her she doesn't act like a ****. She acts suspicious for a while then drops it and opens up like any normal person. Act like a defensive **** and she will treat like a **** it isn't that hard to conceive of.

[Mathias]

LateNightSalami wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Shepard rounded up a bunch of random aliens he met five minutes ago at a bus stop and let them on a top secret highly classified warship. Sure the C-Sec guy is probably legit, but then there's a gun for hire, a tourist, and Benezia's daughter...

Even though everything works out, at least one character should be questioning this...

The Council proves itself to be more interested in protecting their own races than others. Ashley just ends up being right on that one...

And Shepard is a Cerberus zombie. Ashley is justified to be suspicious of him...


She is contentious, fiery, opinionated and a little paranoid...
The perfect Lancer...

Plus, this scene trumps anything Kaidan does...

Click - Ashley gets plastered

No, Shepard is space Jesus.

Okay. OKAY. So MAYBE her suspcious behavior in the 2ND game was justified. She was geniunely worried that Cerberus was behind the Collector attacks somehow...I get that.

But after the events of ME2, it's clear from the official report that Shepard stopped the Collectors and saved humanity. However, she is just as ****y if not more in ME3. It's irrational and stupid. Clearly Cerberus troops are shooting at Shepard. And SHE WAS THERE when Shepard confronted TIM on Mars. Yet she still thinks that Shepard is a Cerberus mole or some ****.

Depending on your dialogue options with her she doesn't act like a ****. She acts suspicious for a while then drops it and opens up like any normal person. Act like a defensive **** and she will treat like a **** it isn't that hard to conceive of.

But i'm Commander Shepard. Shouldn't every person i meet, stranger or not, just automatically love me, agree with me, and worship the ground I walk on?

[jijeebo]

goodventure wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Meh, I watched her getting shot on youtube followed by a gloriously mature "I hope the reapers send you straight to hell." or something.

If someone shoots you, will you be mature about it?

I would if they looked like Sheploo.


Plus, Kaidan handled it like a pro when he got shot by low-trust Shepard.

What does Kaidan say when shot by a low-trust Shepard?

I never knew Ashley could tell Shepard to go "straight to hell." Does Kaidan say something like this too? I can't find a video on it!

With Kaidan it goes:

Shepard: Kaidan, what the hell were you thinking?

Kaidan: I was doing my duty.

Shepard: You stood up for the wrong man.

Kaidan: Better... Better than killing the wrong man.


Whereas Ashley:

Shepard: Ashley... Goddamn it, Ash... He was with Cerberus.

Ashley: So were you... I hope the reapers send you to hell.


Here's a vid... All the deaths are timestamped in the description, but just incase Ashleys low-trust is 18 minutes in and Kaidans are afterwards (the low trust one happens second).

[Haargel]

I kept her alive because she's good looking and I rather have chicks on board my ship.

[huntrrz]

HagarIshay wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

No, Shepard is space Jesus.

Okay. OKAY. So MAYBE her suspcious behavior in the 2ND game was justified. She was geniunely worried that Cerberus was behind the Collector attacks somehow...I get that.

But after the events of ME2, it's clear from the official report that Shepard stopped the Collectors and saved humanity. However, she is just as ****y if not more in ME3. It's irrational and stupid. Clearly Cerberus troops are shooting at Shepard. And SHE WAS THERE when Shepard confronted TIM on Mars. Yet she still thinks that Shepard is a Cerberus mole or some ****.

And if Shepard had a chip inside him/her? It's not like Cerberus wouldn't do such a thing. You've seen what they did to their agents. Ashley and Kaidan can't take risks. You think everyone should just believe Shepard? No sane person would even think to trust someone who worked with terrorists just a few months ago. The fact Shepard got his/her job back in the Alliance is idiotic enough. 

In Shepard's POV, Kaidan and Ashley are being unreasonable. In reality, they are being sane.

No, they are being unreasonable, and arguably insubbordinate.

It doesn't seem to occur to them that ANYONE ELSE in the Alliance military might have shared their concerns and examined/interrogated Shepard down to the cellular level during the SIX MONTHS he was in custody.  The fact that THEY WITNESSED an Alliance Admiral reinstating Shepard instead of him being locked up in the Alliance's deepest dungeon should give them a clue that he's OK.

[TobiTobsen]

huntrrz wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

No, Shepard is space Jesus.

Okay. OKAY. So MAYBE her suspcious behavior in the 2ND game was justified. She was geniunely worried that Cerberus was behind the Collector attacks somehow...I get that.

But after the events of ME2, it's clear from the official report that Shepard stopped the Collectors and saved humanity. However, she is just as ****y if not more in ME3. It's irrational and stupid. Clearly Cerberus troops are shooting at Shepard. And SHE WAS THERE when Shepard confronted TIM on Mars. Yet she still thinks that Shepard is a Cerberus mole or some ****.

And if Shepard had a chip inside him/her? It's not like Cerberus wouldn't do such a thing. You've seen what they did to their agents. Ashley and Kaidan can't take risks. You think everyone should just believe Shepard? No sane person would even think to trust someone who worked with terrorists just a few months ago. The fact Shepard got his/her job back in the Alliance is idiotic enough. 

In Shepard's POV, Kaidan and Ashley are being unreasonable. In reality, they are being sane.

No, they are being unreasonable, and arguably insubbordinate.

It doesn't seem to occur to them that ANYONE ELSE in the Alliance military might have shared their concerns and examined/interrogated Shepard down to the cellular level during the SIX MONTHS he was in custody.  The fact that THEY WITNESSED an Alliance Admiral reinstating Shepard instead of him being locked up in the Alliance's deepest dungeon should give them a clue that he's OK.

Fun Fact: Shep shares the concerns the VS expresses after he/she sees the video in Cerberus HQ, where Tim is talking about his/her ressurection. Shep was brain dead... not just in a coma. They did not heal him/her, they actually ressurected Shep. Something thats never been done before.

I would be sceptical too

[nos_astra]

huntrrz wrote...
No, they are being unreasonable, and arguably insubbordinate.

When are they insubordinate? They follow Hackett's orders. They follow Shepard's orders. They just ask questions.

huntrrz wrote...
It doesn't seem to occur to them that ANYONE ELSE in the Alliance military might have shared their concerns and examined/interrogated Shepard down to the cellular level during the SIX MONTHS he was in custody.  The fact that THEY WITNESSED an Alliance Admiral reinstating Shepard instead of him being locked up in the Alliance's deepest dungeon should give them a clue that he's OK.

Shepard got reinstated in the worst and least convincing way possible. An old friend who happens to be an admimral tossed them their dog tags during the Reaper attack that screams the end is nigh and said: Consider yourself reinstated.

And I don't think the Alliance military had even decided what to make of Shepard. That's not exactly trust inducing.

Plus, the Alliance is pretty inconsistent in their behavior towards Shepard anyway. The reaction changes from one one of mild disinterest (oh, you're back among the living and with Cerberus, that's odd, well, good luck then, can't help you), over suspicion (6 freaking months under arrest) to cheerleading (oh, Reapers, here Shepard, take the Normandy, we suddenly think you are the most awesome person in the world, saaaaaaave uuuus).

I think, Kaidan/Ashley are the only ones who react remotely realistic towards Shepard, everyone else bend themselves into a pretzel to be as stupid, as loyal or as helpful as Bioware needs them to be to make Shepard look heroic. Gah.

Modifié par klarabella, 19 juin 2012 - 02:20 .

[Joe1962]

[quote]klarabella wrote...

[quote]Shepard got reinstated in the worst and least convincing way possible. An old friend who happens to be an admimral tossed them their dog tags during the Reaper attack that screams the end is nigh and said: Consider yourself reinstated.

[/quote]


Right after that you get an e-mail from Hackett making his reinstatement official.

[Xeranx]

klarabella wrote...

huntrrz wrote...
No, they are being unreasonable, and arguably insubbordinate.

When are they insubordinate? They follow Hackett's orders. They follow Shepard's orders. They just ask questions.

huntrrz wrote...
It doesn't seem to occur to them that ANYONE ELSE in the Alliance military might have shared their concerns and examined/interrogated Shepard down to the cellular level during the SIX MONTHS he was in custody.  The fact that THEY WITNESSED an Alliance Admiral reinstating Shepard instead of him being locked up in the Alliance's deepest dungeon should give them a clue that he's OK.

Shepard got reinstated in the worst and least convincing way possible. An old friend who happens to be an admimral tossed them their dog tags during the Reaper attack that screams the end is nigh and said: Consider yourself reinstated.

And I don't think the Alliance military had even decided what to make of Shepard. That's not exactly trust inducing.

Plus, the Alliance is pretty inconsistent in their behavior towards Shepard anyway. The reaction changes from one one of mild disinterest (oh, you're back among the living and with Cerberus, that's odd, well, good luck then, can't help you), over suspicion (6 freaking months under arrest) to cheerleading (oh, Reapers, here Shepard, take the Normandy, we suddenly think you are the most awesome person in the world, saaaaaaave uuuus).

I think, Kaidan/Ashley are the only ones who react remotely realistic towards Shepard, everyone else bend themselves into a pretzel to be as stupid, as loyal or as helpful as Bioware needs them to be to make Shepard look heroic. Gah.

Thank you for this post.

[Ageless Face]

huntrrz wrote...

No, they are being unreasonable, and arguably insubbordinate.

It doesn't seem to occur to them that ANYONE ELSE in the Alliance military might have shared their concerns and examined/interrogated Shepard down to the cellular level during the SIX MONTHS he was in custody.  The fact that THEY WITNESSED an Alliance Admiral reinstating Shepard instead of him being locked up in the Alliance's deepest dungeon should give them a clue that he's OK.

You have a friend. He has also done amazing things in his life. He was a true hero that saved lives.

Your friend is dead. He is dead for two years. You mourned his loss. 

Then, suddenly out of nowhere you see your friend. He is working with terrorists. The military spent years fighting with this exact same terorists. The person you knew would NEVER do anything like that. You understand from that- he is not the same person.

Meanwhile, the same person had been into castidy for working with those terrorists. Or, even better, killing THOUSENDS of people. Perhaps from a justified reason. However, you KNOW the person you once knew would never do anything like this (unless he is a renegade. If so, then you expected it. Doesn't mean he deserves less suspicion).  

You see everyone believe him. There is NO reason as to why, except from the reason he WAS a hero. Has he done anything to actually reedem himself for working with terrorists, or killing thousends? No. He had a reason to do those things, maybe. That doesn't make what he did any better. 

And after that you see what the terrorists did to other people that worked for them. It's not pretty. They turned them to husks. How can you know your friend is trustworthy? What if he has a control chip? What if he is a sleeper agent? So he killed some of the terrorsits. Does it mean he is the same person? Not nececerally. He could kill the terrorists now, but join them later. He might not care about anything anymore aside from his personal goals. The end justifies the means no matter what the means are. Can you really trust this person?


Now tell me: Aren't Ashley and Kaidan have a reason to suspect Shepard? The fact they can even turn and shoot Udina is enough to tell me they trusted Shepard in the end, if s/he deserves to be trusted. Kaidan and Ashley both are the most realistic characters in the entire series. You may not like realism, but you also can't blame them for it.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 19 juin 2012 - 03:04 .

[nos_astra]

Joe1962 wrote...
Right after that you get an e-mail from Hackett making his reinstatement official.

So what? The same Hackett thought it would be a good idea to send a rogue Shepard alone on a secretive mission way before anyone had a chance to examine him/her.

What does this say about Hackett? Is he enlightened because he firmly believes in the awesomeness of the Chosen One or is he just a character who does what Bioware needs him to do, wether it makes sense or not.

Just look at what they did to the Alliance and the Council in ME2 (no Reapers, can't hear you, lalalala) or to Cerberus throughout the trilogy (evil, morally grey, evil, hurp derp). Do you really think there was any thought put into this beyond "wouldn't it be awesome if Shepard ..."?

Modifié par klarabella, 19 juin 2012 - 03:03 .

[TOBY FLENDERSON]

The only reason I saved Ash was because she had a family, Kaiden had no one.