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Balance ALL the things! (A collaborative effort) (Updated 7/10)


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#1
GodlessPaladin

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This is outdated and does not take into account the post-Earth-DLC metagame, recent discussions in the Balance ALL The Things group, or new information found on the inner workings of the game mechanics.  I will update it if/when I have time.
____

Alright, so this is still a work in progress.  Basically, I felt it would be a fun game design thought exercise to put myself in Eric Fagnan's shoes and think about how I'd rebalance the game using just .ini file changes. 

This is what I've come up with so far, with the help of several other forum members including Grimy_Bunyip, Kronner, Zhk3r. Atheosis, Lexa_D, and everyone else in the "Balance ALL the things!" discussion group here on BSN. 

By the way, please read all of the first 3 posts before posting some knee-jerk reaction.  The "Explanation of Changes" and "FAQ" sections should answer many common questions.

POWER CHANGES:

Adrenaline Rush Power
- Evolution 6 number of powers that can be used while in Adrenaline Rush increased from 1 to 5. (Turns out that editing this ini value doesn't do anything.  The idea was that uncapping the Adrenaline Rush bonus power evolution would make it more competitive with the superior Shield Restore evolution and synergize better with Concussive Shot)

Arc Grenade Power
- Base radius reduced from 8 meters to 6 meters.

Ballistic Blades Power
- Evolution 2 cone spread bonus increased from 20 degrees to 40 degrees.

Blade Armor Power
- Base damage protection increased from 15% to 20% (Increased to 25%!)
- Base encumbrance penalty reduced from 60% to 40% (Decreased to 50%!)
- Base damage reflection increased from 75% to 100% (Implemented!)
- Evolution 2 melee damage bonus increased from 15% to 25%
- Evolution 4 damage reflection increased from 75% to 100% (Increased to 150%!)
Also, the damage return cap got raised to 2000.

Biotic Charge Power
- Evolution 3 weapon damage bonus increased from 15% for 3 seconds to 25% for 5 seconds.
- Evolution 4 power damage bonus increased from 25% to 35%
- Evolution 5 chance of not triggering a cooldown increased from 25% to 40%

Biotic Charge Power (Krogan Vanguard)
- Evolution 3 weapon damage bonus increased from 15% for 3 seconds to 25% for 5 seconds.
- Evolution 4 melee damage bonus increased from 25% for 4 seconds to 50% for 8 seconds. (Until the rage is fixed!)
- Evolution 5 chance of not triggering a cooldown increased from 25% to 40%

Carnage Power
- Base damage increased from 315 to 405
- Evolution 1 radius bonus increased from 50% to 100%
- Evolution 2 damage bonus increased from 30% to 50%
- Evolution 5 damage to armored enemies increased from 65% to 75%

Combat Drone Power
- (We think this deserves a change, but we're not quite sure on what to change yet.  Part of the reason for this is that I don't know everything about how
this power works... like what the rate of fire is for the combat drone)

Cryo Blast Power
- Base movement speed penalty increased from 15% to 20%
- Rank 2 recharge speed bonus increased from 25% to 35% (More meaningful for QE than HI)
- Evolution 1 duration bonus increased from 60% to 100%
- Evolution 3 speed reduction bonus increased from 20% to 30%
- Evolution 4 damage bonus increased from 10% to 15%
- Evoultion 5 recharge bonus increased from 50% to 75% (More meaningful for QE than HI)
- Evolution 6 damage bonus increased from 15% to 20%

Energy Drain Power
- Rank 2 Recharge Speed bonus increased from 25% to 35%
- Evolution 4 Recharge Speed bonus increased from 25% to 35%
- Detonatable electrical effect duration increased from 3.0 to 3.5 seconds

Incinerate Power
- Base damage increased from 300 to 390
- Evolution 1 damage bonus increased from 30% to 40% (If it's going to only hit one enemy and be easily dodged it should pack a punch)
- Evolution 4 recharge bonus increased from 25% to 40% (Benefits HEs, KSs, and SEs more than fire-explosion-happy Male Quarians)
- Evolution 5 is just broken... it needs to work on chilled targets! If it's only going to work on frozen types I suppose it ought to really wreck. Not sure what the number should be though.

Marksman Power
- Evolution 6 recharge speed bonus increased from 40% to 80%  (Would love to see this evolution just replaced with Bonus Power...)

Nova Power
- Evolution 6 chance of not using up barriers increased from 25% to 50%

Overload Power
- Rank 2 Recharge Speed bonus increased from 25% to 35%
- Evolution 4 Recharge Speed bonus increased from 25% to 35%
- Detonatable electrical effect duration increased from 3.5 to 4.5 seconds

Pull Power
- Evolution 1 duration bonus increased from 50% to 100%  Implemented
- Evolution 3 damage per second increased from 20 to 80  Increased to 75
- Evolution 4 bonus to damage done to lifted targets increased from 25% to 50%  Increased to 30%
- Evolution 6 recharge speed bonus increased from 60% to 100%   Increased to 150%
Also got some other good buffs... about as much as could be expect given the limited parameters they can manipulate.

Reave Power
- Evolution 1 duration bonus increased from 40% to 80% (Because seriously who takes this over radius as is? With this change it adds 3.2 seconds of duration instead of 1.6)

Sentry Turret Power
- (We think this deserves a change, but we're not quite sure on what to change yet.  Part of the reason for this is that I don't know everything about how this power works... like what the rate of fire is for the sentry turret.)

Sticky Grenades
- Base radius increased from 2 to 3 meters
- Evolution 6 duration of proximity mines increased from 15 to 25 seconds.

Singularity Power
- Base radius increased from 1 meter to 2 meters
- Number of enemies that can be lifted simultaneously increased from 2 to 3
- Evolution 3 damage per second increased from 50 to 80
- Base singularity duration reduced from 25 seconds to 10 seconds
- Evolution 6 detonation damage increased from 500 to 650

Submission Net Power
- Base damage increased from 350 to 500
- Evolution 6 damage interval reduced from 1.5 seconds to 1 second

Tactical Cloak Power
- Base cooldown reduced from 10 seconds to 8 seconds (Compensates for the way the new duration affects Tactical Cloak's unique cooldown mechanics.  The minimum cooldown remains the same)
- Base duration reduced to from 8 seconds to 4 seconds
- Base damage bonus increased from 50% to 60%
- Evolution 1 duration bonus increased from 40% to 150%
- Evolution 2 damage bonus decreased from 40% to 30% (10% moved to base damage bonus)

- Evolution 5 melee damage bonus decreased from 50% to 40%  (Because of changes to melee attacks)
- Evolution 6 damage bonus decreased from 40% to 25%, and tooltip changed to clarify why it's different from other "%" bonuses.

Our ideas here were mostly implemented, with a couple notable differences!  Namely, BW's change cuts a flat 10% damage bonus off the base of Tactical Cloak, making the difference between old Tac Cloak and new Duration option -50% damage vs -30% damage we suggested, and the difference between old Tac Cloak and new Damage option -10% damage vs the 0% damage we suggested. 

New Suggestion:

Tactical Cloak Power
- Evolution 6 damage bonus decreased from 25% to 20% (Note:  This is intended to go alongside a general 15% damage buff to all sniper rifles save the Krysae. 1.15 * 1.25 = 1.4375, not 1.4.  1.15 * 1.2 = 1.38, so with our suggested changes Evolution 6 actually is only losing 2% off of its original effectiveness)

Tech Armor Power
- Base cooldown decreased from 6 seconds to 3 (Less impact from weight, and the animations are fairly long so it's not like it'll get too spammy)
- Rank 2 recharge speed bonus increased from 25% to 35% (Less impact from weight, and the animations are fairly long so it's not like it'll get too spammy)

Warp Power
- Evolution 1 damage bonus increased from 30% to 45% (Because Evolution 2 is +50% Detonate that everyone takes)

Fitness Power (Human Soldier, Human Adept, Human Engineer, Batarian Soldier, Turian Soldier, Drell Adept, Drell Vanguard, Turian Sentinel)
- Evolution 1 melee damage bonus increased from 30% to 40%
- Evolution 5 weapon damage bonus increased from 25% for 20 seconds to 35% for 30 seconds.

Fitness Power (Vorcha Sentinel, Vorcha Soldier)
- Evolution 1 melee damage bonus increased from 30% to 40%
- Evolution 5 weapon damage bonus increased from 30% for 20 seconds to 35% for 30 seconds.

Fitness Power (Asari Adept, Asari Vanguard, Asari Justicar, Cerberus Adept, Cerberus Vanguard, Female Quarian Engineer, Female Quarian Infiltrator, Male Quarian Infiltrator, Male Quarian Engineer, Salarian Infiltrator, Salarian Engineer, Geth Engineer, Geth Infiltrator)
- Evolution 1 melee damage bonus increased from 30% to 40%
- Evolution 5 power damage bonus increased from 30% for 20 seconds to 40% for 30 seconds.

Rage Power
- Rage duration increased from 30 seconds to 40 seconds.
- Evolution 1 melee damage bonus increased from 30% to 40% (Base rage melee damage raised 10%, and various health improvements)

-----

MELEE CHANGES:

Human (Soldier, Engineer, Infiltrator, Sentinel)
- Base heavy melee damage increased from 600 to 690
- Base light melee damage increased from 150 to 165

Quarian
- Base heavy melee damage increased from 600 to 690
- Base light melee damage increased from 150 to 165

Salarian
- Base heavy melee damage increased from 600 to 690
- Base light melee damage increased from 150 to 165

Drell
- Base heavy melee damage increased from 600 to 690
- Base light melee damage increased from 150 to 165

Human Adept
- Base heavy melee damage increased from 250 to 425  (Great to see this increased to 500!)
- Base light melee damage increased from 150 to 165

Human Vanguard
- Base heavy meleee damage increased from 500 to 625
- Base light melee damage increased from 150 to 165

Turian
- Base heavy melee damage increased from 675 to 756
- Base light melee damage increased from 200 to 220

Krogan
- Base heavy melee damage increased from 700 to 770
- Base light melee damage increased from 300 to 330

Batarian
- Base melee damage increased from 1000 to 1100
- Base light melee damage increased from 190 to 210

Asari
- Base heavy melee damage increased from 500 to 600
- Base light melee damage increased from 150 to 165

Geth
- Base light melee damage increased from 200 to 400

Vorcha
- Base heavy melee damage increased from 600 to 690

Ex-Cerberus
- Base heavy melee damage increased from 350 to 400
- Base light melee damage increased from 400 to 500

 Melee Damage Spreadsheet

-----

WEAPON CHANGES:

Black Widow Sniper Rifle
- Damage increased from [514.1-642.6] to [591.2-739.0]
- Weight range changed from [2.5-2.0] to [2.25-2.0]  (The weight range got changed to [2.3-2.0]!)

Disciple Shotgun
- Increased chance of staggering to be similar to that of the Geth Plasma Shotgun (e.g. reliably staggers Phantoms)
- Damage increased from [46.3-57.8] to [53.2-66.4]

Harrier Assault Rifle
- Weight range changed from [1.75-1.25] to [1.5-1.25]

Incisor Sniper Rifle
- Damage increased from [74.6-93.3] to [85.8-107.3]

Indra Sniper Rifle
- Damage increased from [62.6-78.2] to [72.0-89.9]  Increased to [72.6-92.2]
- Weight range changed from [1.25-0.7] to [1.25-1.0]  (The weight range got changed to [1.0-0.75]!)

Javelin Sniper Rifle
- Damage increased from [1030.5-1288.1] to [1236.6-1545.7]
- Weight range changed from [3.0-2.4] to [2.7-2.4]  (My suggestion got implemented exactly!)

Kishok Harpoon Gun
- Damage increased from [645.4-806.8] to [742.2-927.8]

Locust SMG
-Damage increased from [34.3-42.8] to [44.6-55.6]

Mantis Sniper Rifle
- Damage increased from [615.6-769.5] to [707.9-884.9]

N7 Crusader Shotgun
- Damage increased from [486.6-608.3] to [559.6-699.5]
- Weight range changed from [2.5-2.0] to [2.0-1.7]  (Weight range was changed to [2.3-2.0]!)

N7 Eagle Heavy Pistol
- Damage increased from [74.9-93.7] to [82.4-103.0]  (Maybe more)
- Weight range changed from [0.6-0.25] to [0.6-0.4]

N7 Hurricane SMG
- Now displays ammo accurately (Clip is 20, bullets per shot is 1)
- Weight range changed from [0.85-0.45] to [0.95 -0.75]

N7 Valiant Sniper Rifle
- Damage increased from [317.2-396.5] to [364.9-456.0]
- Weight range changed from [1.75-1.0] to [1.7-1.4]

Paladin Heavy Pistol
- Weight range changed from [1.25-0.7] to [1.0-0.7]

Raptor Sniper Rifle
- Damage increased from [78.2-97.7] to [89.9-112.4]

Revenant Assault Rifle
- Damage increased from [63.6-79.5] to [70.0-87.5] (10%)

Saber Assault Rifle
- Weight range changed from [2.0-1.4] to [1.7-1.4]  (My suggestion got implemented exactly!)

Scorpion Heavy Pistol
- Weight range changed from [1.1-0.6] to [0.85-0.6]

Striker Assault Rifle
- Damage increased from [144.7-180.9] to [159.2-199.0]
- Spare ammo increased from [48-60] to [58-72]

Talon Heavy Pistol
- Weight range changed from [1.1-0.6] to [1.0-0.7]

Widow Sniper Rifle
- Damage increased from [867-1083.8] to [997-1246.4]

Wraith Shotgun
- Weight range changed from [1.5-0.9] to [1.2 - 0.9] (My suggestion got implemented exactly!)

-----

(Insert Balance All The Things Meme Picture Here)

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 01 août 2012 - 02:49 .


#2
GodlessPaladin

GodlessPaladin
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EXPLANATION OF CHANGES:
Ultra-Rare Weapon Weight Range Changes:
Ultra-rare weapons, and particularly promotional weapons, are infamously difficult (or even impossible in the case of promotional weapons) to fully level up.  While this is part of the drive to keep on progressing, the fact remains that weight is such a barrier to entry for so many builds that many players can't really make much use of many black card weapons if they "only" have them at 2 or 3.  I suggest narrowing the weight range of ultra-rare weapons in order to make them more accessible to players with lower ranks, while still maintaining a serious incentive to progress (a considerable damage boost, extra capacity, and a smaller weight range still grants weight improvements).  With this change, players would feel rewarded right off the bat and would be able to put weapons like the Wraith into use right away, whereas currently the Wraith is a rare sight because its primary advantage, weight, takes so many ranks to manifest.

This change does not buff the weights of any fully levelled weapons.  The only weapon which received an actual weight decrease in our changes was the Crusader.  The Valiant, Indra, Hurricane, Eagle, and Talon actually got nerfs to their minimum weights.

Weapon Balance Changes!
-The Krysae Sniper Rifle can no longer kill shielded Gold enemies in one shot when wielded by a Geth Infiltrator.  Its effectiveness on non-Infiltrators has not been affected.

- The N7 Hurricane is no longer capable of being levelled up to be extremely light, and its max weight has been slightly increased.  This weapon shreds; it doesn't need to be able to become lighter than the Carnifex.

- The Talon's minimum weight has been increased back to its pre-buff value, but its maximum weight has been decreased.  The Talon is already the highest damage pistol and deserves to have the same minimum weight as the Paladin.  However, like most ultra-rares, we have made it more accessible at lower ranks.

- The Javelin can now kill a Cannibal with one body shot in the hands of any character with at least a 7.5% damage bonus.  Still super heavy though.

- In addition to being 10% more damaging, the Disciple now fulfills a unique role as an "anti-Phantom sidearm."  In order for switching to a lightweight sidearm to really be worth it in this game (with its long weapon switching times), said sidearm needs to really accomplish something unique from the primary weapon.  In this case, many weapons struggle to get past the Phantom's "hand of denial."

- Some have described the N7 Crusader as a heavy Paladin.  As a result, we didn't really think that simply nerfing the weight would be a good idea... too much competition with the niche of the Paladin and Saber.  Instead, we opted to make it hit even harder and have only a slight weight decrease, turning it into a deadly run and gun Black Widow for classes that can take the weight like the Human Soldier or Krogan Sentinel.

- The N7 Eagle got a damage buff, but it can no longer become as light as the Phalanx.

- We felt that the gun that killed two presidents needed at least a 30% damage upgrade.  This would still leave it with less burst damage output than a Phalanx as well as various other disadvantages (no piercing mod, 5% heavier, less accurate, more damage loss against armor, et cetera).  However, it now has slightly more sustained damage than a Phalanx.

- We are planning to go over Common and Uncommon weapons, but are focusing on the Rare and Ultra-Rare weapons first.  We are also planning to have a Geth Pulse Rifle and Geth Plasma SMG damage increase.

Sniper Rifles!
All sniper rifles save the Krysae have had their damage increased by 15% (20% for the Javelin) alongside a 15% reduction to Tactical Cloak's sniper rifle damage multiplier, keeping the effectiveness of sniper Infiltrators the same but making sniper rifles more competitively viable for other classes.  This also effectively nerfs the Krysae in the hands of sniper infiltrators just enough so that it doesn't one-shot shielded Gold mobs, while not affecting its potency in the hands of any other characters.  

Vanguards!
There's a lot of division regarding Vanguards.  Some say they deserve an instant kick and do nothing but charge off to their doom, while others claim that they're invincible.  I say that neither of these paradigms are true.  The Human Vanguard may have invincibility frames, but it carries with it a lot of risk.  It's vulnerable to staggers, stray rapid fire shots sneaking in between its invincibility frames, and most notable of all they are extremely vulnerable to sync kills, which are more important than any other form of damage because they immediately and irrevocably remove a player from a wave.    And while they are powerful and have useful tools, they struggle for relevance in the current metagame.  It has been said that Vanguards are excellent tanks, but they are tanks that require a high level of skill to use effectively (evidenced by the infamous Vanguard death rate).  However, let's think about what that means... in a team of skilled players, tanking isn't terribly necessary or helpful in this game, and for less skilled players, well, they can't really use the Vanguard effectively, so instead they opt for things like the Salarian Engineer which make it very simple to hold down a flank indefinitely to make up for the slow rate at which they and their teammates deal damage and clear enemies.  So tanking just isn't enough.  They also are good at triggering combos... but most classes are good at triggering combos on their own and they don't really offer any force multipliers to detonations or anything.  So we thought Vanguards could use a little bit of love (though only a little, we think Vanguards are pretty awesome) when it comes to their other intended role... being highly mobile close quarters attack dogs who walk a tightrope of risk vs reward in order to do some serious damage (something they're readily outclassed at by characters like Geth Infiltrators or Drell Adepts.  Nova just isn't that damaging).  We also think there's room for a bit more depth too (after all, people complain about "two button spam").  

With the changes I've suggested here, a number of options open up for Vanguards.  By mixing improved melee and improved charge synergy into their attack patterns, Human Vanguards are under even more pressure to keep up the chain of attacks in order to maximize their damage potential, further emphasizing their dynamic of risk vs reward and giving them a chance for more weapon or power damage.  With the changes to Sustain and Biotic Charge's Evolution 5 (options that, previously, were almost never taken over the 100% damage bonus and 100% barrier recharge), the option of "Gambler" Vanguards that need to pay attention and dynamically react to random changes in the attack patterns available to them opens up.  

The new Biotic Charge evolution 5 also allows players to emphasize the Vanguard's trademark dynamic of risk vs reward on other classes, too.  For example, Krogan Vanguards can sacrifice some of their invincibility by giving up the 100% barrier recharge feature in order to have a fair chance of being able to detonate their Barrier (or use Carnage) immediately after a charge, giving them some extra crowd control and offensive potential at the expense of durability.  Ex-Cerberus Vanguards also benefit, if one's bold enough to make them even more squishy.

Anyways, the only thing that's purely a buff is the modest increase to biotic charge's weapon/power synergy.  The rest are supposed to bring up underused build options like Sustain or melee Fitness.

Melee!
For the vast majority of characters, skipping over melee Fitness is a no-brainer choice.  Choosing it is a large character building resource sink, comes at the direct opportunity cost of shields and health alongside encouraging you to put yourself in unsafe situations,  and the payoff just isn't worth it.  We don't like that, so one of our biggest changes that we've spent a lot of time and discussion on is rebalancing melee Fitness to be an attractive choice for many more characters than it was before.

- Human Soldiers:  Their melee is slow, but with Adrenaline Rush melee boost and a Bayonet they can pick off the occasional straggler Nemesis or Cannibal for a quick melee synergy boost.  Their extra shield gate can help to mitigate the risk, but it's still definitely not safe compared to having shield fitness and running around with a hardened shield restore adrenaline rush shooting all day in the open without a care in the world.

- Turian Soldiers:  They have a fast and damaging melee attack (though not as much as their Sentinel cousins) and weapon synergy is more meaningful to them than anyone else because Marksman works as a force multiplier, and as such they can effectively do the most single target damage.  Of anybody.  Neat!  Of course, they have trouble with survivability (low "true" health/shields, not speccing for Fitness, no roll, no great survivability tools to speak of compared to pretty much any other class), but they have a powerful offense for those who can play them as aggressively as possible.  Their melee also helps them out against Phantoms, which their oft-favored automatic weapons struggle to deal with.

- Human and Turian Sentinels:  With their fast melee attacks and bonus melee damage option from Tech Armor, I feel the nudge in damage and synergy opens up options for these guys and will see more players considering melee over power damage... and in turn boosting weapon damage.   Additionally, their Tech Armor mitigates the loss of Fitness.  On the other hand, Sentinels will be starved for those 6 points to invest in melee Fitness, because there aren't any powers they really want to give up (applies more to Human Sentinels than Turian Sentinels).

- Human Adepts:  Did you know that Human Adepts have an area melee attack that does piddly damage and some force?  Well they do!  And with the newly buffed version alongside the buffed Singularity, they can finish off enemies lifted by Singularity for a quick Weapon Synergy... which combines well with the Warp debuff if you're willing to give up points in Throw, Singularity, or Training... and deal with having only 500/500 health.

- Asari:  Asari are another race that don't like to give up points for Fitness at all (Stasis, Warp, Throw, Biotic Charge, and Lift Grenades are all Nice Things), and even if they did, well, they have their squishiness to consider.   On top of that, their melee is super-slow and super-risky and barely does more damage than other, faster area melee attacks.  Asari are squishy (except for Justicars) and melee fitness makes them MORE squishy and using heavy melee leaves you fairly defenseless.  As such, we felt that the Asari melee could really use some extra oomph.  

Asari Vanguards can follow up an area charge with melee, Asari Justicars can blast weakened enemies walking into an offensive bubble while remaining fairly safe with her damage reduction, and Asari Adepts can finish off stasised enemies reduced to health for a synergy bonus, now having just enough oomph to be able to one-shot unshielded Cerberus mobs with a proper spec and martial artist activated.  

- Infiltrators:  Not too much has changed other than Weapon Synergy being more meaningful for non-Geth Infiltrators.  Notably, only Human Infiltrators get Weapon Synergy (good news for Kasumi fans... try making a human female Infiltrator with the buffed Cryo Blast and a full melee spec!  Throwing Cryo Blast at melee range also can free up points spent on Bonus Power and prevent enemies from being able to dodge it).  Geth Infiltrator melee damage works out to be about the same and the weapon synergy buff does little for them.  We felt that Geth melee was pretty much fine as is... it's still fairly situational and it isn't so good that good players like Sp3c7eR aren't considering taking shield fitness over it.  In fact, I feel it is an example of a case where the Fitness tree is actually fairly well balanced.  

- Krogans:  Because they should smash things even more.  Search your feelings, you know it to be true.  Really though, I'm serious... there's not far too much point to taking Fortification and meleeing on Gold instead of just tossing Inferno Grenades to your heart's content and setting off explosions with Carnage, other than the occasional Phantom, a slight buff wouldn't hurt.  And that's just what it is... slight.  Perhaps the most meaningful thing is that they're under a bit less pressure to melee all the time, because the rage window is lengthened a bit.

- Batarians:  We wanted to help the investment in Blade Armor look more attractive to compete with the Batarians who run around nuking spawns with double stunlock blades and inferno grenade spam.  With this change, A Batarian with full Blade Armor and full melee spec can one-shot a Marauder with martial artist on.  They can also one-shot a Pyro with either a melee amp or a bayonet, and with both they can do it without Martial Artist.  Along with a little extra damage reduction, they can very reliably get the buffed weapon synergy bonus.  

- Engineers:  Probably still not terribly viable on Engineers sadly, but I didn't want to buff Infiltrator melee attacks much (I think they share the same ini entries.  Not sure though).  Overload lockdown or the last straggler on a decoy may provide opportunities for picking up melee synergy, though.

- Human and Drell Vanguards:  With improved Weapon Synergy on both biotic charge and melee, Human and Drell Vanguards have even more incentive to keep up the pressure and break up the spam with a variety of different kinds of attacks chained together, knowing when to use what to keep their damage potential maximized and making their moment to moment choices of risk vs reward even more meaningful than before.  

Powers!
- Tactical Cloak  This change accomplishes a few things.  First, it makes the Evolution 1 Duration option more attractive (after all, who doesn't take the 40% damage bonus from Evolution 2 instead?) by moving some over Evolution 2's damage into the base damage bonus and by making the difference in duration much more notable.  

Secondly, this change emphasizes the old ME1 style paradigm of choosing between being an Agent or a Commando.  You can choose to either be able to run around with Cloak all you want, capping objectives, reviving teammates, and comfortably taking your time to maneuver, or you can go for maximum damage at the expense of utility.  The base cooldown was changed to make the cooldown in practice even out with the new duration (since cooldown is linked to percentage of duration used up, and the duration is shorter.  Thanks to Kronner for figuring out how to adjust the cooldown to compensate).  

Third, Evolution Rank 6 now adds a 1.25x sniper rifle damage multiplier rather than 1.4x.  However, at the same time, most sniper rifles have been buffed 15%, causing things to more or less even out and at the same time making sniper rifles more competitively viable for non-Infiltrator characters.  The exception to this is the Krysae, which hasn't gotten a buff, and as such does less damage on Infiltrators than it used to (and can no longer one-shot shielded mobs on Gold).

The change to the melee damage bonus evolution simply compensates for Fitness being buffed, since we didn't feel Infiltrators needed much more melee damage, particularly with melee synergy being buffed.

- Fitness  Everyone's got Fitness, but for so many characters, the melee tree is hardly even worth considering.  You need to invest a lot into melee to get the most out of it (a mod slot, a melee amp 3, constantly trying to keep up limited time bonuses like martial artist, spending a lot of points in Fitness, and taking melee damage bonus options for other skills, for starts) and this comes at the direct cost of your survivability even before you consider how risky melee is simply by virtue of being a slow point blank attack that seriously punishes whiffs.  We've aimed to change that by increasing the bonuses (particularly its weapon/power synergy aspect) and increasing the base damage of melee attacks.  See the "Melee!" section for more details.

- Singularity
 I've basically turned Singularity into a death sentence for unshielded and unarmored enemies.  With a larger radius, Singularity provides improved reliability and crowd control.  With an improved lift duration and improved damage evolution, enemies take significantly more damage (sometimes having their health bars removed entirely by Singularity) and are more likely to be affected by the Detonate function... which on top of the improved damage over time will kill most unshielded enemies.  With the decreased singularity duration, the Detonate evolution becomes more useful (since it comes into play after 10 seconds rather than 25).  Incidentally, this new version of Singularity (hopefully, not quite sure on the physics, must test) synergizes with Lash and Smash, allowing you to set up your own little killzones.  Grab shielded enemies with lash, fling them into the Singularity, and let it hold them there and whittle away their health.  If things get close, detonate everything with Smash!  And of course you get the occasional bonus detonation.  It also synergizes with the Human Adept's area of effect heavy melee.

- Pull  
Like Singularity, Pull has become a death sentence for unshielded and unarmored enemies.  We mostly have focused on improving Evolution 1 and Rank 5 and 6 options, however, since many people already find 4 ranks with Evolution 2 worthwhile.  With evolution 4, Pulled enemies will simply die on their own.  With evolution 5, you can trivially finish them off at your leisure while using them to set up biotic bombs.  With evolution 6, cooldown is very fast even with heavy weapons, allowing you to get right back to biotic charging or throwing Reave or whatever, but this competes with the +50% detonation evolution option and is diminished by the fact that Pull already has a very fast cooldown.

- Combat Drone and Sentry Turret  
We feel these powers could stand to have rather significant buffs, but we haven't determined exactly what those buffs should be yet.  One of the issues here is that I don't have all the information I feel I need... like what the "rate of fire" is for the sentry turret's gun, for example.  

Update:  We now have this information and should be posting suggested changes for these powers soon.

- Energy Drain and Overload  
Engineers could use some love, especially in the face of the new and amazing Male Quarian Engineer, or when compared to the other guys who regularly make tech bursts... Infiltrators.  This change simply greases the wheels by allowing Energy Drain and especially Overload to combo into other powers for a self-created tech burst more easily, allowing Engineers some extra leeway for maneuvering, range, or weapon choices.

The change to Energy Drain does little to benefit Salarian Infiltrators since their effective recharge speed is principally determined by the cloak cycle, and they can't cloak-->ED-->cloak-->PM fast enough to trigger a tech burst.  They still rely on following up disruptor ammo shot with ED or PM (or having team mates set things off) for tech bursts.

- Submission Net
This power is unique to an underperforming class, the Batarian Sentinel.  As it is, this power has often been referred to as a "ghetto stasis."  Stasis is instant and affects multiple targets with its bubble (as well as reliably affecting Phantoms without having to set a trap ahead of time, giving it its most important usage) and sets up biotic combos for good measure, and is added onto an already useful chassis (Warp/Throw or Biotic Charge/Lift Grenade).

With the improvements to Submission Net, it offers better crowd control and more damage, focusing on aspects that make it unique from Stasis.

- Cryo Blast
This power doesn't offer a whole lot compared to its competitors like Warp and Proximity Mine, and the classes that have it are generally recognized as inferior to their most direct competitors (such as Human Infiltrators vs Geth Infiltrators or Male Quarian Infiltrators).  

- Incinerate 
The only place I've actually really liked using this power is on the Male Quarian Engineer, and even then, well... it's directly competing with Tactical Cloak (since the Male Quarians are copies of each other with only one power slot different), and therefore probably has a little room to grow for the sake of improving the FQE, SE, and HE.  But only a little!

- Biotic Charge and Nova 
See the "Vanguards!" section for more details.  Anyways, Sustain had little to offer over a +100% bonus to damage against most defense types, and extra power had such a low proc rate that it was rarely taken over a 100% barrier restore if people dropped 6 skill points into rank 6 at all.  The change to synergy, on the other hand, serves to give the Vanguards a little bit more teeth when they pop up in an enemy's face, giving them a bit more reward for their risk.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 29 juin 2012 - 04:01 .


#3
GodlessPaladin

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FAQ:  If you ask a question that is answered in the FAQ, we will all point and laugh at you.

Q:  Why is balance important?  It's a co-op game / you're a scruffy nerf herder / you just are afraid of other people doing well / etc.  You've all see these topics.
A:  I'll let Mr. Fagnan field this one.  Eric?

Eric Fagnan wrote... We prefer not to nerf weapons or abilities, but some strategies just become too dominant which hurts replayability. We want to make as many strategies as possible viable on all difficulty levels so the game stays fresh. The vast majority of balance changes have been attempts to bring up weaker strategies so they can compete with the stronger ones.

Eric Fagnan wrote... For that reason I don't agree that nerfing in a co-op game is not necessary.

If that's not enough for you, there are actually some fairly good discussions about the matter hidden throughout these forums.  Here's a link to one of them:  social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/12361238/4

Also this:
social.bioware.com/forum/Mass-Effect-3/Mass-Effect-3-Multiplayer-Discussion-/List-of-Bad-Arguments---CarebearNerfer-Edition---12594721-1.html

Q:  Okay, but what's the point of talking about balance changes?  We can't change them.  Bioware doesn't listen to us.  
A:  Actually...

Eric Fagnan wrote...  We look at a variety of sources including these forums, game stat-tracking, and of course our own internal playtests.

But more than that, (and while I can't speak for others who have added their input to this) I passionately enjoy game design and it's a fun thought exercise for me to work out the balance issues of games even if they won't get changed.

An update on this
:  Eric Fagnan has now joined our "Balance ALL the things!" group and has expressed an interest in this community feedback.  Another update: Some of the changes suggested here have been implemented.

Q:  What kind of changes can be made here?
A:  For the sake of this game design thought exercise, we have restricted ourselves to "Fagnanesque" changes, e.g. changes that could be made by weekly balance changes via simply editing the ME3 coalesced.ini file.

Q:  Why haven't you changed (insert common or uncommon weapon here)?  It seems pretty unbalanced.
A:  Because we've focused on balancing rare and ultra-rare weapons first.  We're still planning on looking over commons and uncommons in detail, but making intelligent, informed, and specific suggestions takes some time, especially when it's a group effort and people have to argue for a bit to settle on things and prove points to each other.

Q:  Hey, I think X, Y, and Z change should be made!
A:  We'd love to hear your feedback and appreciate your ideas.  However, we also want to keep this thread as clean as possible and it'll get crowded pretty fast with people arguing over how to balance 50 different abilities.  If you're interested in this I advise you to contact me or one of the other group members of an invitation to the "Balance ALL the things!" discussion group, where we've got a good 50 threads going on different aspects of the game so that your voice can actually get heard and the feedback on individual abilities can be kept organized.

Q:  Hey, X is a great power already!  Why are there buffs for X?
A:  Even if X is a great power, some great powers have underpowered evolution options that are never used.  When you can feel the indecision between two options, that's balance, right there.  As such, some options on good powers are buffed to make them competitive with their directly competing alternatives.  This doesn't make the power as a whole much stronger because it comes at the direct opportunity cost of the other, previously superior option... it just means it offers more ways to play to the player!

Q:  OMG there are NERFS!  I see nerfs to Tactical Cloak, Krysae, Talon and Hurricane!  Nerfs are evil!
A:  Deal with it.

Q:  I see more buffs than nerfs here.  What's up with that?  Are you trying to make the game too easy?
A:  The challenge of a game is primarily affected by the efficacy of its most powerful (yet reasonably easy to use) options which define the metagame.  In this case, that would be stuff like Claymore Infiltrators or Drell Adepts with grenade gear.  Simply bringing up underperforming options to the level of better options does not make the game much easier.   Moreover, while what we've posted looks like a lot of changes, the reality is that we're suggesting a good deal less buffs than Bioware themselves have implemented over the course of this game's life.

By stark contrast, changes like the addition of grenade capacity gear, the improvements to thermal clips, or the radius buff to Proximity Mine are power creep and have made the game easier, because it makes some of the stronger strategies in the game that much more effective.  We do not feel we have suggested any changes like that, however.

Q:  I saw X class get X score while Y class got Y score, so why didn't you make Z change?
A: One player being able to outscore another in a specific instance is not a reliable indicator of overall class balance and all arguments of this sort will be ignored or ridiculed.

Q:  What's the deal with this Evolution 1, 2, et cetera notation?
A:  I'm using the same notation as Eric Fagnan uses in the weekly balance changes updates.  Evolution 1 = rank 4 top option.  Evolution 2 = rank 4 bottom option.  Evolution 3 = rank 5 top option.  Evolution 4 = rank 5 bottom option.  Evolution 5 = rank 6 top option.  Evolution 6 = rank 6 bottom option. 

Q:  Okay... so Fagnanesque changes only right?  But what can and can't be changed in the ini?
A:  In general, you cannot add entirely new mechanical functions to a weapon, power, power evolution, et cetera.  So if Evolution X gives a 30% bonus to damage, you can't change it to add DR or a speed increase or something.  Also, I don't think you can mess with animation speeds or anything.   What you can change are the numbers that are already there, like whether Evolution X grants a 30% bonus or a 15% or 45% bonus.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juillet 2012 - 10:42 .


#4
GodlessPaladin

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Other stuff...

Patch Suggestions:  Suggestions that (I think) can't be changed through ini file edits.  I don't want to focus on these and fixes of this sort are likely a long ways away if they're coming at all, but I felt they were worth mentioning anyways.
  • Turians should be able to roll.
  • Characters that cannot roll, such as Batarians or Krogans, should be highly resistant to staggers.  At the very least they should not be able to be locked into successive staggers indefinitely.
  • Concussive Shot Evolution 3 should work on chilled targets, not just frozen ones.
  • Concussive Shot "Amplification" evolution should actually do something.
  • Incinerate Evolution 5 should work on chilled targets, not just frozen ones.
  • Make it so that Proximity Mine Evolution 3's damage multiplier does not stack with itself (like Tactical Scan or Cryo Blast), slightly nerfing lone Geth / Salarian Infiltrators but encouraging greater diversity in team makeups rather than, say, 4 Geth Infiltrators.
  • Make it so that Sabotage's Evolution 6 tech damage multiplier does not stack with itself (like Tactical Scan or Cryo Blast).  This would allow some room to better Sabotage for lone FQIs without worrying about the potential of 4FQI teams stacking massive backfire damage.
  • Console players should have a similar capability for reload cancelling as PC players.  In fact, forget medigel cancelling and just let players cancel (or fail to do so with bad timing, of course) with the reload button.
  • Turrets should have a somewhat smaller hitbox so that they don’t block players’ shots so much.
  • Turrets should try to avoid shooting walls so much.
  • Replace Marksman Evolution 6 with Bonus Power and / or allow Marksman to be manually turned off early like the Vorcha flamer.
  •  Player abilities such as Shockwave should not cause the screen to shake for other players.
  • The Vorcha Flamer power should be able to be cancelled by using Cluster Grenades just like it can be cancelled by using a dodge, thus implementing smoother and more intuitive controls.
  • The "happy krogan laugh" and "vorcha revelling in immortality" animations should be cancellable by actions like using powers.
  • Prevent the Reegar Carbine from firing during the use of powers.
  • The Asari Justicar's Asari Justicar passive Evolution 4 should provide the listed 15% power damage bonus.
  • The Krogan Vanguard's Rage power should provide the listed bonuses when in the blood rage state.
  • Vanguards should be immune to Sync Kills during Biotic Charge and for, say, 0.5 seconds afterwards.
  • If headshots on bosses are to be reintroduced in some form, I recommend having Atlas-like "weak points" be subject to headshot damage bonuses (such as those from passives or equipment like the Vulnerability VI), but not the 250% base headshot multiplier.
  • Provide credit rewards for completing the extraction wave.  I recommend a bonus awarded to a player for they themselves extracting, and another, larger bonus awarded to everyone for a full extraction.
  •  If a power can only affect a limited number of targets, other enemies should be prioritized before swarmers.
  • The default difficulty should be "Bronze" not "Random."
  • The Nemesis has flavor text about how they have implants that let them use Widow sniper rifles.  Moreover, their attacks work as if they are using a Widow.  Therefore, I suggest simply changing their graphic to be holding a Widow rather than a Raptor, because their attacks are not representative of using a Raptor at all.
  • Numerous bugs, obviously.
Tooltips:  I feel that these can be improved to communicate game information more effectively to players.
  • Fitness should list actual light/heavy melee damage in its sliding bars, rather than the melee damage % bonus.
  • Tactical Cloak Evolution 6, melee attachment mods (such as the Bayonet and Stunner), and any other things that work like them should communicate why they are different from other "%" damage bonuses, since they multiply all other bonuses rather than just adding a flat % of the base damage.
  • Abilities that have a base bonus or penalty against health, armor, shields or barriers (such as Overload) should note what that bonus or penalty is in their description.  I mean the actual number, not just saying they're "effective against shields" or "less effective against health."
  • Singularity should note the duration of the actual Singularity, not just the duration of the lifting effect.
  • Ballistic Blades should list the base cone spread.
  • Consumable equipment such as ammo powers or rail amps should provide a description of what they do.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 juillet 2012 - 01:54 .


#5
Tokenusername

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I've stolen your special fourm spot.
(also, *cough cough* Increase peripheral scan duration on level 6 area scan evolution for tech scan from 3 to 8 seconds*cough cough*)

Modifié par Tokenusername, 19 juin 2012 - 06:09 .


#6
Grunt_Platform

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Yes! Just so very yes!

The damage buffs to sniper rifles and a weight reduction on the Javelin especially. I'm routinely amazed by just how ineffective they are without Tactical Cloak right now.

Modifié par EvanKester, 19 juin 2012 - 08:21 .


#7
Morning Elf

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Cool stuff. Is that a typo on the Indra weight change?

I'd also like to see cryo explosion changed so that the target doesn't need to be killed to be triggered.

Sticky grenade radius could be increased further, with a reduction in damage if necessary. I keep respeccing my QI and I just can't find any use for them.

#8
GodlessPaladin

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Stuff I still want to iron out...
-Geth Pulse Rifle / Geth Plasma SMG / Striker changes
-Any other rare weapons that need to be addressed
-How to change Combat Drone, Sabotage, and Sentry Turret.
-What, if anything, to do about Grenade Gear.

Morning Elf wrote...

Cool stuff. Is that a typo on the Indra weight change?

  Yes.  It is a typo and it has been fixed.

I'd
also like to see cryo explosion changed so that the target doesn't need
to be killed to be triggered.

  No fixes, weekly balance update
style changes ONLY,  Final Destination.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 19 juin 2012 - 06:24 .


#9
Jay_Hoxtatron

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Interesting. I'd give you some Rep if there was a system like that here.

But yes, more buffs than nerfs here. And playing 'underperforming options' are all Gold viable if you play them at their fullest. Soooo, anticipating new difficulty?

Edit : also, I like your singularity and pull.

Modifié par Jay_Hoxtatron, 19 juin 2012 - 06:13 .


#10
Shampoohorn

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Nice job. Read about 40% so far and will continue.

Error checking I noticed two quick things:
-Your biotic charge evolution numbers seem a bit off. Should it be 5,4,6 in the order of your bullet points? Krocharge 5,6,6?

#11
Killahead

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This is the best thread on this forum.

Disregarding what I might find myself disagreeing with in your proposed list of changes (I will have to come back to that), I can really appreciate the thought and work put into this and the fact that your main concern is preserving variety and giving the players meaningful choices. Looking into evolutions that no one cares about or are discussing because they are deemed useless or inferior shows that you really want the best for the game and not just changes that fit your preferred way of playing.

Thumbs up. Really hope Bioware will read this.

#12
GodlessPaladin

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Shampoohorn wrote...

Nice job. Read about 40% so far and will continue.

Error checking I noticed two quick things:
-Your biotic charge evolution numbers seem a bit off. Should it be 5,4,6 in the order of your bullet points? Krocharge 5,6,6?


I'm using the same notation as Eric Fagnan uses in the weekly balance changes updates.  Evolution 1 = rank 4 top option.  Evolution 2 = rank 4 bottom option.  Evolution 3 = rank 5 top option.  Evolution 4 = rank 5 bottom option.  Evolution 5 = rank 6 top option.  Evolution 6 = rank 6 bottom option. 

This clarifiation will be added to the FAQ.

Killahead wrote...
Thumbs up. Really hope Bioware will read this.


Eric Fagnan has already sent me a private message and has asked to join the "Balance ALL the things" discussion group here on BSN.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 19 juin 2012 - 06:16 .


#13
WandererRTF

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I see very little actual balancing and whole lot of buffing in the list. That is not balancing the game, it's making it easier nearly all around.

#14
GodlessPaladin

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WandererRTF wrote...

I see very little actual balancing and whole lot of buffing in the list. That is not balancing the game, it's making it easier nearly all around.


Please read the FAQ.

#15
Elecbender

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If you really want to know Ex-cerberus' melee values:

Light melee: 400
Heavy melee: 350

Keep in mind the heavy melee has the largest AoE out of all melee attacks.

Modifié par Elecbender, 19 juin 2012 - 06:19 .


#16
GodlessPaladin

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Elecbender wrote...

If you really want to know Ex-cerberus' melee values:

Light melee: 400
Heavy melee: 350

Keep in mind the heavy melee has the largest AoE out of all melee attacks.


Sounds about right.  Do you know the radius?

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 19 juin 2012 - 06:21 .


#17
astheoceansblue

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Excellent work, all of you. Apologies for not being around enough to contribute, work's been hectic lately. Will take a look at the discussions in group and see if there's anything I could add.

#18
Cyonan

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Very nice set of changes. Just so you know, the melee values for Rebellion characters are:

Male Quarian
Light melee damage: 150
Light melee force: 350
Heavy melee damage: 600
Heavy melee force: 0

Vorcha
Light melee damage: 250
Light melee force: 350
Heavy melee damage: 600
Heavy melee force: 850

Ex-Cerberus
Light melee damage: 400
Light melee force: 200
Heavy melee damage: 350
Heavy melee force: 450
Heavy melee impact radius: 600

Also, I believe that the Sentry Turret's rate of fire is 540. It has a burst fire delay of 2 seconds, but I haven't played QE in so long that I don't remember if that matches up with what we see in game.

If I can find where they buried the Combat Drone data, I'll post that.

#19
holdenagincourt

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Oh hi! Haven't read this all yet...been playing mostly this morning. But I will do so over lunch, I think. Great idea!

#20
WandererRTF

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GodlessPaladin wrote...

WandererRTF wrote...

I see very little actual balancing and whole lot of buffing in the list. That is not balancing the game, it's making it easier nearly all around.


Please read the FAQ.

Yes i did that, already before my initial post . But using the quite reasonable assumption that Bioware prefers the existing balance between players and the opponents (what there is of it) that would mean that enemy troops all around would need to receive similar boost in performance just as well to maintain the said balance. Which is something i would personally dislike.

You can not go off giving one-sided boosts in performance and then calling it balanced.

Modifié par WandererRTF, 19 juin 2012 - 06:29 .


#21
Apl_Juice

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Cyonan wrote...
Also, I believe that the Sentry Turret's rate of fire is 540. It has a burst fire delay of 2 seconds, but I haven't played QE in so long that I don't remember if that matches up with what we see in game.

If I can find where they buried the Combat Drone data, I'll post that.


This is really helpful! No one who knows their way around the files were around to comment on Sentry Turret stuff in the group discussion, so now we can acutally look at some numbers. With that rate of fire, would you happen to know how many shots it fires in a burst?

Modifié par Apl_J, 19 juin 2012 - 06:29 .


#22
Cyonan

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Apl_J wrote...

This is really helpful! No one who knows their way around the files were around to comment on Sentry Turret stuff in the group discussion, so now we can acutally look at some numbers. With that rate of fire, would you happen to know how many shots it fires in a burst?


I've probably looked through those files at least as much as Tangster has, so I know my way around them quite well by now.

The Sentry Turret should be firing 3 shots per burst.

#23
GodlessPaladin

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WandererRTF wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

WandererRTF wrote...

I see very little actual balancing and whole lot of buffing in the list. That is not balancing the game, it's making it easier nearly all around.


Please read the FAQ.

Yes i did that, already before my initial post . But using the quite reasonable assumption that Bioware prefers the existing balance between players and the opponents (what there is of it) that would mean that enemy troops all around would need to receive similar boost in performance just as well to maintain the said balance. Which is something i would personally dislike.

You can not go off giving one-sided boosts in performance and then calling it balanced.


The FAQ contains my response to this postion.  Your response does not address said response, so I will ignore you.

However, if anyone thinks there is some specific change which is going too far, I am happy to hear criticism.  It wouldn't be the first time we've revised this list.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 19 juin 2012 - 06:37 .


#24
Geek

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WandererRTF wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

WandererRTF wrote...

I see very little actual balancing and whole lot of buffing in the list. That is not balancing the game, it's making it easier nearly all around.


Please read the FAQ.

Yes i did that, already before my initial post . But using the quite reasonable assumption that Bioware prefers the existing balance between players and the opponents (what there is of it) that would mean that enemy troops all around would need to receive similar boost in performance just as well to maintain the said balance. Which is something i would personally dislike.

You can not go off giving one-sided boosts in performance and then calling it balanced.


If you read through everything you will see that most of the changes apply to evolutions that nobody ever takes. For example nobody chooses cloak duration over damage, and the changes here go a long way to making it more attractive. Also while buffing the most underperforming characters makes the game a little easier for that character, it doesn't make the game easier than it already is by taking the overpowered characters everyone is already using.

Modifié par rymoulton, 19 juin 2012 - 06:34 .


#25
Manuel La Bor

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I am Manuel La Bor, and this is my favorite thread on BSN.