724 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

heybigmoney wrote...

Shotgun infiltrators will be forced to take duration cloak instead of dmg. Snipers remain roughly the same, except the krysae no longer nukes whole spawns instantly.

I can live with this. The claymore/gps/reegar infiltrators were completely outclassing snipers who were not using krysae.

Why would they be forced to take duration?

[heybigmoney]

capn233 wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Shotgun infiltrators will be forced to take duration cloak instead of dmg. Snipers remain roughly the same, except the krysae no longer nukes whole spawns instantly.

I can live with this. The claymore/gps/reegar infiltrators were completely outclassing snipers who were not using krysae.

Why would they be forced to take duration?

Under these proposed changes cloak's base duration would only be 4 secs.  So running around cloaked for more than 2 seconds with a claymore will trigger a long cooldown every time.  

[Grunt_Platform]

heybigmoney wrote...

capn233 wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Shotgun infiltrators will be forced to take duration cloak instead of dmg. Snipers remain roughly the same, except the krysae no longer nukes whole spawns instantly.

I can live with this. The claymore/gps/reegar infiltrators were completely outclassing snipers who were not using krysae.

Why would they be forced to take duration?

Under these proposed changes cloak's base duration would only be 4 secs.  So running around cloaked for more than 2 seconds with a claymore will trigger a long cooldown every time.  

Base duration. It's true that the Rank 3 bonus should be larger, but these changes would make the duration 5.2 seconds at Rank 3.

[capn233]

EvanKester wrote...

Base duration. It's true that the Rank 3 bonus should be larger, but these changes would make the duration 5.2 seconds at Rank 3.

Yes it is 5.2s if Rank 3 remains the same. 

If you look at the infiltrator metagame (if such a thing exists) people are using cloak predominantly for the damage boost.  I don't think the duration changes are necessarily going to change frequency that people choose specific evolutions, at least not to a significant degree on the higher difficulties.  Maybe I am underestimating the damand for longer cloak.  Then again, working with what they can they are locked into a choice between damage and duration so it is about as good as they can make it with a weekly balance change.  As such it does make sense to try and up the ante as far as duration goes to sway people, I am just not confident it will actually work.

Modifié par capn233, 20 juin 2012 - 08:10 .

[Wordlywisewiz]

Seems like balance might be delayed yet again!

[Ektogamut]

However, if they shortened it in this manner it would make the choice between duration and cloak length more interesting. If you spec for damage, you have far less utility then someone specced for cloak length. Reading the forums it does seem that some infiltrators prefer the cap/medic role and thus you might actually get people speccing into the power.

[DirtySHISN0]

Suggestion that is slightly aside from the suggestions here. How about actually making stagger work properly. Apparently the only stagger animation is a backwards stagger. which is infuriating when you get stunlocked into an auto kill by something because damage from behind makes you stagger back into it. Example, running AWAY from phantom, slashed across the back therefore i stagger back towards? its auto kill - what. the. ***K.

[GodlessPaladin]

So, Geth Pulse Rifle. Don't like where it's at now at all. Since it got its weight reduced to that of the Carnifex in the weekly balance changes rather than giving it some teeth, it competes pretty directly with the niche of the fairly accurate SMGs like the Hornet or Geth Plasma SMG. I think I'd like to see it be a bit heavier but more damaging to set it apart. 

Then there's a circle of...
-Harrier: High accuracy, high damage, low ammo/clip.
-Revenant: Low accuracy, high damage, high ammo/clip.
-Geth Pulse Rifle: High accuracy, decent damage, high ammo/clip, lighter than the others.
-Saber: Great accuracy but unforgiving of misses, generous clip, solid damage with headshots, good vs armor.

One of the issues, however, with bring the GPR and GPSMG up to speed, though, is the issue that two classes get a damage multiplier with them.  Essentially a lesser version of the problem sniper rifles faced.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 20 juin 2012 - 08:45 .

[capn233]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

One of the issues, however, with bring the GPR and GPSMG up to speed, though, is the issue that two classes get a damage multiplier with them.  Essentially a lesser version of the problem sniper rifles faced.

As long as you don't go overboard with the damage it shouldn't a big deal that GE and GI get a Geth damage boost.  GPS used to be lamented as overpowered and yet people still would usually rather take the Claymore on GI.

Granted that is an imprecise analogy, but it is still valid.

There is probably room for Avenger, Phaeston and GPR to all get a little more damage.  How much more power do you want out of the GPR?

[Grunt_Platform]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Suggestion that is slightly aside from the suggestions here. How about actually making stagger work properly. Apparently the only stagger animation is a backwards stagger.

There is a forward stagger. The game is just inconsistant about how it applies this. If you watch, the same problem affects enemies. Force doesn't seem to be very good at transfering its direction to the target, unless it knocks them clear off their feet.

GodlessPaladin wrote...

One of the issues, however, with bring the GPR and GPSMG up to speed, though, is the issue that two classes get a damage multiplier with them.  Essentially a lesser version of the problem sniper rifles faced.

Honestly, I don't think there's much danger of that being a problem with the Geth Pulse Rifle. Even if you gave it a 10% damage boost a Geth Engineer is only killing trash mobs with it slightly faster (a couple tenths of a second) with it than with a Carnifex, and that's spread out a lot more shots and a lot more exposure to enemy fire. A 20% damage boost would make it a definite choice over the Carnifex for Geth Engineer, but not really for any other class. And even with that damage advantage, the Carnifex will always be a better head-popper and mini-sniper rifle, since it loses a lot less of its DPS for popping in and out of cover than the Pulse Rifle does.

Modifié par EvanKester, 21 juin 2012 - 12:12 .

[GodlessPaladin]

What do you think of...

Geth Pulse Rifle
- Damage increased from [24.1-30.1] to [30.1-37.6]  (A full 25% buff would give it a bit more DPS than the Carnifex, but less than the Hornet)
- Weight increased from [1.0-0.5] to [1.1-0.6]

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 21 juin 2012 - 12:57 .

[1337haxwtg]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

What do you think of...

Geth Pulse Rifle
- Damage increased from [24.1-30.1] to [30.1-37.6]  (A full 25% buff would give it a bit more DPS than the Carnifex, but less than the Hornet)
- Weight increased from [1.0-0.5] to [1.1-0.6]

It's a step in the right direction. It might even put the gun right where it needs to be. The DPS wouldn't be spectacular, and I'd probably still prefer the Carnifex for the same reasons I explained in the burst vs sustained thread. This would at least make it a decent option for long-range DPS on small targets.

Modifié par 1337haxwtg, 21 juin 2012 - 01:03 .

[capn233]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

What do you think of...

Geth Pulse Rifle
- Damage increased from [24.1-30.1] to [30.1-37.6]  (A full 25% buff would give it a bit more DPS than the Carnifex, but less than the Hornet)
- Weight increased from [1.0-0.5] to [1.1-0.6]

Is that sustained?  Single clip DPS would still be a little less than the current Carnifex wouldn't it? (I got 451.5-564 vs 460.17-575.17).

In any event, that would make it a good deal better than Phaeston or Vindicator.  Then again it is rare tier.

[GodlessPaladin]

capn233 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

What do you think of...

Geth Pulse Rifle
- Damage increased from [24.1-30.1] to [30.1-37.6]  (A full 25% buff would give it a bit more DPS than the Carnifex, but less than the Hornet)
- Weight increased from [1.0-0.5] to [1.1-0.6]

Is that sustained?  Single clip DPS would still be a little less than the current Carnifex wouldn't it? (I got 451.5-564 vs 460.17-575.17).

In any event, that would make it a good deal better than Phaeston or Vindicator.  Then again it is rare tier.

Not according to Grimy's sheet, which is supposed to account for human refire error and gives me ~524 for the Carnifex single clip damage and ~548 for the boosted GPR.  What formula are you using?

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 21 juin 2012 - 01:18 .

[slescens]

to the TOP!  Bump!

[gaminazn]

Why does everyone think TC's rank 6 evolution affects the entire "powered up" damage of a sniper rifle? The math refutes this theory.

If that theory were true and rank 6 is a "multiplier" as it were, then a BW 1 would be able to 1 shot body shot a cannibal. It clearly cannot 1 shot a cannibal until rank 7 or 8 if you're not using a GI or equipment.

[GodlessPaladin]

gaminazn wrote...

Why does everyone think TC's rank 6 evolution affects the entire "powered up" damage of a sniper rifle? The math refutes this theory.

  The math huh?

If that theory were true and rank 6 is a "multiplier" as it were, then a BW 1 would be able to 1 shot body shot a cannibal. It clearly cannot 1 shot a cannibal until rank 7 or 8 if you're not using a GI or equipment.

In order for a rank 8 Black Widow to one-shot a Cannibal, it needs at least 330% weapon damage (BW 8 does 614 damage, Cannibal has 2025 health.  2025/614=~3.298).   Explain how you are getting this without equipment or a multiplier.  A rank 1 Black Widow needs 394%.

100% + 27.5% (passive) + 25% (high caliber barrel) + 90% (cloak) + 40% (cloak) = 282.5%
(100% + 27.5% (passive) + 25% (high caliber barrel) + 90% (cloak)) * 1.4 = 339.5% (That's a lower number than 394%, by the way)

What math were you talking about again?  Because I'm using the kind with numbers and equations.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 21 juin 2012 - 02:08 .

[Baine10]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

gaminazn wrote...

Why does everyone think TC's rank 6 evolution affects the entire "powered up" damage of a sniper rifle? The math refutes this theory.

  The math huh?

If that theory were true and rank 6 is a "multiplier" as it were, then a BW 1 would be able to 1 shot body shot a cannibal. It clearly cannot 1 shot a cannibal until rank 7 or 8 if you're not using a GI or equipment.

In order for a rank 8 Black Widow to one-shot a Cannibal, it needs at least 330% weapon damage (BW 8 does 614 damage, Cannibal has 2025 health.  2025/614=~3.298).   Explain how you are getting this without equipment or a multiplier.  A rank 1 Black Widow needs 394%.

100% + 27.5% (passive) + 25% (high caliber barrel) + 90% (cloak) + 40% (cloak) = 282.5%
(100% + 27.5% (passive) + 25% (high caliber barrel) + 90% (cloak)) * 1.4 = 339.5% (That's a lower number than 394%, by the way)

What math were you talking about again?  Because I'm using the kind with numbers and equations.

What in the royal world are you talking? Do you have do be so damn condescending? Sure, he IMPLIED that bw 7 can one-shot a cannibal without equipment but that doesn't give you the right to go and pick on the details and bring him down with your "factual math"

I know it's facts, but mostly people don't use facts to insult other people.

[GodlessPaladin]

Baine10 wrote...
Sure, he IMPLIED that bw 7 can one-shot a cannibal without equipment

  Implied?  His post was pretty explicit, with words like "clearly cannot" and a straightforward "if/then" claim. 

but that doesn't give you the right to go and pick on the details and bring him down with your "factual math"

Oh yeah, I'm really mean for using math to logically refute an unsubstantiated claim!  <_<

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 21 juin 2012 - 02:36 .

[Metal Vile]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

What do you think of...

Geth Pulse Rifle
- Damage increased from [24.1-30.1] to [30.1-37.6]  (A full 25% buff would give it a bit more DPS than the Carnifex, but less than the Hornet)
- Weight increased from [1.0-0.5] to [1.1-0.6]

At that point, how does it compare to say, the Phaeston?  Still lighter and less damage per bullet, but that impressive RoF will seriously put some hurt on unarmored enemies, especially with the stream of near constant headshots it can spit out.

I can't seem to find the advanced weapon stats sheet on google docs.  I have Tangster's saved in my bookmarks, but I haven't seen this other one that has calculated DPS values for single clip, sustained, etc..

[Grunt_Platform]

...I think I missed the part where it was decided "logically refuting an argument" was "using facts to insult people." I hope that was a joke. If you say the math backs your argument, and you don't provide math, nobody's insulting you by actually using the math and proving you wrong.

Anyway..

GodlessPaladin wrote...

What do you think of...

Geth Pulse Rifle
- Damage increased from [24.1-30.1] to [30.1-37.6]  (A full 25% buff would give it a bit more DPS than the Carnifex, but less than the Hornet)
- Weight increased from [1.0-0.5] to [1.1-0.6]

That looks about perfect to me. Makes the GPR a good Geth Engineer and caster weapon, but it doesn't unbalance it significantly.

I actually think every high ROF weapon needs to relate to similar low ROF guns this way. Higher DPS vs. health and shields, but worse damage against armor. Considering all the drawbacks of firing a gun on full auto, they can actually get away with having better DPS on paper without actually outperforming semi-autos in every situation.

Modifié par EvanKester, 21 juin 2012 - 02:34 .

[GodlessPaladin]

EvanKester wrote...

...I think I missed the part where it was decided "logically refuting an argument" was "using facts to insult people." I hope that was a joke.
If you say the math backs your argument, and you don't provide math, nobody's insulting you by actually using the math and proving you wrong.

  This.

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Baine10 wrote...


What in the royal world are you talking? Do you have do be so damn condescending? Sure, he IMPLIED that bw 7 can one-shot a cannibal without equipment but that doesn't give you the right to go and pick on the details and bring him down with your "factual math"

I know it's facts, but mostly people don't use facts to insult other people.

It took me a few minutes of reading the responses to this post to realize it was serious. 

lol. 

Modifié par Mysterious Stranger 0.0, 21 juin 2012 - 02:40 .

[MoeRayShep]

I have a suggestion for assault rifles, cumulatively. I don't think it can addressed by changing the .ini, though.
What if AR's intrinsically ignored a certain amount of armor damage reduction? They wouldn't have intrinsic penetration, but they could cumulatively have a built in 30% DR bypass (i.e. 35 per round vs. 50). This would go a long way towards making rapid fire AR's more viable on Gold, and help make up for their increased weight.
I also think Turian Marksman should either feature an automatic reload like Adrenaline Rush or at least reduce reload time while active. This could get confusing for reload canceling; I suggest that while Marksman is active the weapon automatically reloads in the minimum time as if the player had performed a perfect reload cancel.

[GodlessPaladin]

Metal Vile wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

What do you think of...

Geth Pulse Rifle
- Damage increased from [24.1-30.1] to [30.1-37.6]  (A full 25% buff would give it a bit more DPS than the Carnifex, but less than the Hornet)
- Weight increased from [1.0-0.5] to [1.1-0.6]

At that point, how does it compare to say, the Phaeston?  Still lighter and less damage per bullet, but that impressive RoF will seriously put some hurt on unarmored enemies, especially with the stream of near constant headshots it can spit out.

I can't seem to find the advanced weapon stats sheet on google docs.  I have Tangster's saved in my bookmarks, but I haven't seen this other one that has calculated DPS values for single clip, sustained, etc..

You may find these resources helpful.

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc
docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc
docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub
docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc
docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 21 juin 2012 - 02:43 .