724 réponses à ce sujet

[GodlessPaladin]

Chriss5688 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Chriss5688 wrote...
GodlessPaladin, are you planning on touching enemies as well?

Maybe, but I currently don't have much in the works in that department.  I mean if I wanted anything more out of enemies I would want a harder difficulty level but making a harder difficulty level is kinda a different project entirely.  The only other thing I'd change would be curbing elements of "fake difficulty" such as buggy nonsense and compensating by raising elements of "real difficulty" like enemy movement speed or transitions into different attacks for banshees and such.  There are two issues with that... one is that dealing with buggy nonsense falls outside of the purview of .ini file changes (or "Fagnanesque changes"), and the second is that I'd need to get my hands on more detailed enemy statistics than just their health/shields/regeneration rate.  If anyone can point me to such I'd be all over it.

I see. I was thinking about messing with Cerberus for a bit, because at the moment they are the only faction which has one unit that stands out apart from the rest like Phantoms do. Reapers have Banshees, Marauders, Ravagers and sometimes Brutes as the biggest problems, while Geth have Primes, Pyros, Hunters and Rocket Troopers. All of them with different characteristics. Cerberus though... Phantoms do it all. Out-classing every other unit in every aspect except Atlas's in raw health/shield numbers and Turrets on DPS.

Atlasses seem to perform their roles as slowly advancing walls of threat well enough and Engineers obviously have their turrets to slow down player mobility options while the others press your position with diverse defensive types (guardian shields, phantom barriers, atlas durability, and smokescreens all potentially require different tactics to bypass).  Imagine if Nemesis was actually a threatening sniper or Centurions moved in more quickly with grenades and smoke, though...

But really so much is dependant on things like AI behavior that I don't feel like I could really make particularly well informed changes without being able to test mods and such.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 21 juin 2012 - 10:18 .

[The Waffle Cat]

Too many buffs, needs more nerfs.

[Creston918]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Creston918 wrote...

I wish they'd balance your ability to continuously and endlessly whine about everything that needs to be balanced.

Real classy.

Okay, I'll admit it was a knee-jerk reaction. My apologies.

I did read through the whole post now. It mostly seems like "buff everything except the infiltrators." Since most of the balance crowd complains about balance because overpowered things take away their challenge, wouldn't this just make it so the entire game becomes a lot easier?

Also, are a lot of these things really not just changing something for the sake of changing something? Is upping a Batarian's light melee from 190 to 210 really going to make any difference? (it's just a random example I took.) While it may look cool on paper to change something by 2 or 3%, the end results of that are not going to be noticeable in the game itself. So why do it?

I'll give an example of what I mean. If a mook has 650 Health, that Batarian still needs to do 4 light melee swings to kill him. So the only way you'd notice a difference is if the buff happens to hit a threshold where you have a noticeable effect in-game. (ie, it takes one less shot to kill a Brute with a Black Widow X.)

Unless it hits that threshold, the new numbers aren't going to be noticeable, I think. So then why bother?


Also, finally, I'm not sure why Tac Cloak needs to be nerfed, but whatever, I've had that discussion with the balance crowd many times over. Why make the duration go down from 8 to 4 seconds? For sniper infiltrators, that means nothing. I cloak and I shoot within 0.5 seconds. But for those infiltrators who cap and res, you're basically taking them completely out of the game. Because no infiltrator is going to ress or cap points without cloak, because they don't have the shields and health to stand up to any kind of fire.

So is what you want a game where no class can play medic and capper?

[capn233]

Increase Atlas move speed to 30kph. That would get people's attention.

[Blind2Society]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Atlasses seem to perform their roles as slowly advancing walls of threat well enough and Engineers obviously have their turrets to slow down player mobility options while the others press your position with diverse defensive types (guardian shields, phantom barriers, atlas durability, and smokescreens all potentially require different tactics to bypass).  Imagine if Nemesis was actually a threatening sniper or Centurions moved in more quickly with grenades and smoke, though...

But really so much is dependant on things like AI behavior that I don't feel like I could really make particularly well informed changes without being able to test mods and such.

I'd say that engineers should only have one turret and once it's placed that's it. Granted it may make them a bit harder to kill as their exploding backpack would be gone but I don't really see that as a bad thing.

Also, why does everyone say that nemesis are not threatening? Maybe it's because they're always shooting at me so nobody else has to worry? Two nemesis shots can kill most characters and when one shoots me, they all shoot me. Plus they can shoot seemingly without ever seeing me or even aiming. When your in CQC with them they're not threatening but then again they're snipers.

They seem like they're just there to bypass our shield gate. One shot takes out your shields and then that assualt trooper or centurian can take you out with ease.

That's just my two cents on nemesis and engineers though.

[GodlessPaladin]

Creston, most of your notions have been addressed by numerous others repeatedly throughout this thread.  I suggest you go back and read through what others have said.  However, here's a brief response.

Creston918 wrote...
I did read through the whole post now. It mostly seems like "buff everything except the infiltrators."

  Then you didn't read that carefully.  *Shrug*

In fact, some Infiltrator builds got buffs.  But yes, we've focused more on improving underused options to the point where they would be relevant in the current metagame than on weakening the dominant strategies in the metagame. 

We've nerfed the weight of several weapons (most notably the Hurricane), we nerfed Tactical Cloak, and we nerfed Krysae synergy and that''s about it.  We've also been looking at possibilities for the Reegar and especially Grenade Gear.  However, we've yet to come up with anything approaching an elegant solution to grenade gear that can only be done with .ini changes.

Also, are a lot of these things really not just changing something for the sake of changing something? Is upping a Batarian's light melee from 190 to 210 really going to make any difference? (it's just a random example I took.) While it may look cool on paper to change something by 2 or 3%, the end results of that are not going to be noticeable in the game itself. So why do it?

  It's not 2 or 3%.  The maximum potential damage of the Batarian's light melee attack actually went up by about 16%.  But you know, that's just me and actually doing the math instead of just throwing random numbers around.

Unless it hits that threshold, the new numbers aren't going to be noticeable, I think. So then why bother?

  The thresholds have changed a good deal.  We considered how many hits it would take to kill several different enemy types (Assault Trooper, Cannibal, Nemesis, Centurion, Marauder, Hunter, Pyro, Phantom, Brute, Geth Prime) at different bonus benchmarks (with or without martial artist, armor bonuses, equipment, et cetera) for each character.  Moreover, the synergy bonus is a significant change.

Also, finally, I'm not sure why Tac Cloak needs to be nerfed, but whatever, I've had that discussion with the balance crowd many times over. Why make the duration go down from 8 to 4 seconds? For sniper infiltrators, that means nothing. I cloak and I shoot within 0.5 seconds. But for those infiltrators who cap and res, you're basically taking them completely out of the game. Because no infiltrator is going to ress or cap points without cloak, because they don't have the shields and health to stand up to any kind of fire.

  Those infiltrators who want free caps and rezzes now take the suddenly-worth-considering Duration evolution.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 21 juin 2012 - 10:45 .

[GodlessPaladin]

The Waffle Cat wrote... Too many buffs, needs more nerfs.

I do not appreciate people making comments that they, in general, do not like nerfs or buffs. Please identify specific buffs or nerfs you disagree with rather than simply disagreeing with the general idea of buffs or nerfs. It's much more productive. Thanks. 

Even more productive would be suggesting actual changes you'd like to see to improve the balance of the game.

Also, many other posters in this thread have already addressed essentially this exact same comment from another poster.  You would do well to read or respond to them.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 21 juin 2012 - 10:34 .

[Creston918]

Actually nm.

Modifié par Creston918, 21 juin 2012 - 10:40 .

[Grunt_Platform]

The FAQ says...
Q: I see more buffs than nerfs here. What's up with that? Are you trying to make the game too easy?
A: The challenge of a game is primarily affected by the efficacy of its most powerful (yet reasonably easy to use) options which define the metagame. In this case, that would be stuff like Claymore Infiltrators or Drell Adepts with grenade gear. Simply bringing up underperforming options to the level of better options does not make the game much easier. Moreover, while what we've posted looks like a lot of changes, the reality is that we're suggesting a good deal less buffs than Bioware themselves have implemented over the course of this game's life.

I wish people would read that.


That said, I do think the Tactical Cloak base duration could stand to be increased a bit. 5.2—11.2 seconds is a bit low. Giving it 5 seconds instead would mean 6.5 seconds with Evolution 2, and 14 seconds with Evolution 1.

This would let Infiltrators who spec for duration have an exceptional ability to complete objectives and revive allies—only slightly better than an Infiltrator's current support abilities. 6.5 seconds is still too little time to cap an objective invisibly, but the extra 1.3 seconds just give Damage infiltrators a liiittle more wiggle room to still be team players.

Too everyone who things an Infiltrator's damage potential is being nerfed: it isn't. A 60-90% bonus with a 1.25x multiplier is still better than any other class can manage with a sniper rifle.

Modifié par EvanKester, 21 juin 2012 - 10:43 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Creston918 wrote...
And what else are they going to do? Wait for someone to go down and ress? Or fire a sniper rifle at the same effectiveness as another class, which has more options at its disposal? Why do other classes need to become almost just as good with a sniper rifle as the actual, you know, sniper?

  Because a 60% damage bonus with a 1.25x multiplier and debuffs that provide damage multipliers (Cryo Blast, Tactical Scan, and Proximity Mine all do this), not to mention grenades, hunter mode, energy drain, and sabotage, counts as waiting around and having few options at your disposal outside of capping and rezzing and having no particular advantages over other snipers.  Right.

Cut the hyperbole if you want to have a serious discussion.

Edit:  Ah, I see you edited.

Creston918 wrote...

Actually nm.

Well okay then.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 21 juin 2012 - 10:46 .

[The Waffle Cat]

All right just to clarify the things I would like to see nerfed : Geth heavy melee reduced by 50%

arc grenades damage reduced by 20 %

TC nerfed by halfing damage on the 40%

krysae AoE decreased to 1 meter only , both sides left and right 50cm

Nerf the GPS by giving it pess damage but up the accuracy from longe range a bit to not degrade it to crap






enemy buffs :

Cerberus :

- up the atlas sync kill rate
- guardians health increased by 70%, atm they're just upgraded cannon fodder
- centurion damage needs to be more(40% ish) as the assault trooper fires full auto an he fires mostly in bursts
- nemesis RoF increased from 1 shot each 5 seconds to 2 shots each 7 seconds ( this is just roughly but they fire once per 5 seconds if they are already in cover)
- decrease nemesis count on higher waves and replace them with atlas (atli/atlus??)

Geth :

Make the combat drone shoot missiles as its supposed to do

Reapers :

Cannibal AI needa upgraded for when a fellow cannibal goes down but you are close, it sinply attacks you instead of eating his friends.

Marauders shouldn't cast his animation once an enemy is near

Brute armor needs to go up to be on par with the banshee or even higher

Ravager armor should be the same, only make explosive weapons do damage on them ( this sometimes does 0 damage to them)



Buffs :

Harrier ammo needs to be buffed by 10-20%
make the Kishock heatseeking to compensae the ohk on brutes just to make the weapon viable again.

[Fortack]

Blind2Society wrote...

Also, why does everyone say that nemesis are not threatening? Maybe it's because they're always shooting at me so nobody else has to worry? Two nemesis shots can kill most characters and when one shoots me, they all shoot me. Plus they can shoot seemingly without ever seeing me or even aiming. When your in CQC with them they're not threatening but then again they're snipers.

They seem like they're just there to bypass our shield gate. One shot takes out your shields and then that assualt trooper or centurian can take you out with ease.

That's just my two cents on nemesis and engineers though.

Seconded. Nemesis are very dangerous. I see no reason why they need a buff when they already can pop your shield with a single shot from all over the place.

If Cerb needs something it would be much harder to kill assault units. Geth pyros and hunters are tough and can take some hits; banshee and brutes move fast to get you out in the open for Marauders and Ravangers to play with. A Cerb Guardian can be killed (using a lot of different weapons) with a single shot, they move a lot slower and don't have real fire power. Centurions are not that hard to kill either. Both units are supposed to smoke you out of cover to become easy prey for the Nemesis and her pals.
The problem however are turrets and phantoms - they can kill anything in no time at all. When Cerb gets better means to assault positions I think their attack / damage should be reduced for balance and to keep things playable.

[capn233]

I still have a philosophical question regarding the Viper. In general the weapons with lower rate of fire do more damage per shot, the reverse is that with higher rate of fire you do less damage. Viper doesn't do a lot of damage and doesn't have all that much rate of fire.

Why couldn't it be more of a Valiant lite?

If you gave it 100rpm ROF it isn't as if it would necessarily surpass the Val, especially a leveled up Val even with the weight increase on the Valiant in this new scheme. It would also feel a lot more like the ME2 Viper, instead of some oddball rifle.

Viper
Damage [263.8-329.7]
Rate of fire: 100

Will still be down on DPS compared to a Valiant (for any reasonable length of time), in fact it is lower than all current semi-auto rifles except Krysae (who has AOE which negates this disadvantage).

Really I think you could even go higher with the ROF, even with the increase in damage, but even at 100 it would feel a lot more like the ME2 weapon. You can push it to 110rpm and it still does less DPS at level X than the Valiant at I.

Is 85rpm simply so that there is a big enough gap between an N7 Promotional and the Uncommon? Relative to the Raptor, you would still be doing less DPS. And it isn't as if damage per shot is so overwhelming that it makes Val, Carnifex, or even Phalanx obsolete. Indeed, a 100rpm Viper would lag the Phalanx in DPS and in rounds per mag with the disadvantage that you have the damage penalty for firing un-scoped.

Modifié par capn233, 21 juin 2012 - 10:55 .

[GodlessPaladin]

@Waffle Cat

The issue with Ravagers, I think, is that area of effect attacks can only hit a limited number of targets and swarmers screw with this. I like the ideas for the Cannibal and Marauder AI but I am not sure if those changes can be implemented through .ini changes. As for some of the other changes, I would like to know if you have hard data on enemies (such as Nemesis spawn count or Centurion damage) I could go through... otherwise as mentioned before there's not too much I can do regarding making specific suggestions for them.

make the Kishock heatseeking to compensae the ohk on brutes just to make the weapon viable again.

Changes like this are clearly outside of the purview of .ini changes.

The Waffle Cat wrote...

All right just to clarify the
things I would like to see nerfed : Geth heavy melee reduced by
50%

  We don't feel Geth heavy melee is that bad.  There are plenty of competent players who opt not to take it, instead choosing few points in Fitness or taking Shield fitness.  And when it is taken, it's still better used as a situational tool.  Look at the numerous <12 minute speedruns with all Geth Infiltrators... how often do you see melee being used?

Remember, when you can feel the indecision between two choices, that's balance right there. 

Geth :

Make the combat drone shoot missiles as its supposed to do

  That would be cool, but that's a fix not a .ini balance change.

krysae AoE decreased to 1 meter only , both sides left and right 50cm

  Already nerfed the damage 25%, which is enough that an Infiltrator with full bonuses (cloak, hunter mode, rail amp, high caliber barrel, et cetera) can't one-shot shielded mobs on a direct hit anymore.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 21 juin 2012 - 11:00 .

[The Waffle Cat]

Ill try to find those values, havent got my computer nearby atm so ill check later as im typing on my phone.

[The Waffle Cat]

The krysae is still OP as hell, people just use the equipment to boost the damage up so its on par with pre-nerf. Imo it should've never been neefed in damage but in radius as it cleared spawns way too fast due to the big AoE

[Grunt_Platform]

The Waffle Cat wrote...

All right just to clarify the things I would like to see nerfed : Geth heavy melee reduced by 50%

There's a lot of nerfs in your list, but this one catches my eye.

Why, particularly, do you think a Geth Infiltrator and Engineer need their melee nerfed so severely?  Reduced how? Radius? Damage? I assume you mean damage. You realize that means its heavy melee would do around 187.5 base damage that way. This would mean it would do at most 417.2 damage, or 801.6 damage even using Cloak, without gear.

That's.. not really a lot, and that would nerf the Engineer a lot harder than the Infiltrator. It's already one of the riskiest melees in the game, as it doesn't track the target and uses up shields every time it's used, meaning that if the geth fails to kill everything firing on it with its Shield Pulse within one or two pulses, the geth WILL die.

[Grunt_Platform]

The Waffle Cat wrote...

The krysae is still OP as hell, people just use the equipment to boost the damage up so its on par with pre-nerf. Imo it should've never been neefed in damage but in radius as it cleared spawns way too fast due to the big AoE

Are you taking the multiplier reduction in the original post into account?

[The Waffle Cat]

1. Ive never seen a GE go melee build and if you do it then you got brave balls bit are just stupid ad its a 1 way trip to the grim reaper

2. The GI an pull of numbers of over 2.2k with his heavy melee, it would still be the most used eavy hitter if there was no krysae in rebellion.

Stop try to justify that the GI melee build isnt strong or weak, as it simply isnt its the melee version of the krysae.

[molecularman]

EvanKester wrote...

The Waffle Cat wrote...

All right just to clarify the things I would like to see nerfed : Geth heavy melee reduced by 50%

There's a lot of nerfs in your list, but this one catches my eye.

Why, particularly, do you think a Geth Infiltrator and Engineer need their melee nerfed so severely?  Reduced how? Radius? Damage? I assume you mean damage. You realize that means its heavy melee would do around 187.5 base damage that way. This would mean it would do at most 417.2 damage, or 801.6 damage even using Cloak, without gear.

That's.. not really a lot, and that would nerf the Engineer a lot harder than the Infiltrator. It's already one of the riskiest melees in the game, as it doesn't track the target and uses up shields every time it's used, meaning that if the geth fails to kill everything firing on it with its Shield Pulse within one or two pulses, the geth WILL die.

I can only speak for myself, but after playing a melee-claymore GI a lot (I'm fairly good at it, mind you) and noticing I barely ever used the melee (when I wasn't specifically intending to) I just switched back to full-shotgun build and haven't really missed those melee bonuses. So it really isn't that OP after all because practical aspects like situnationality, distances and that 3-enemies-hit-limit are very considerable drawbacks.

Modifié par molecularman, 21 juin 2012 - 11:16 .

[The Waffle Cat]

I'm talking about the krysae as it is now, it shouldn't has been nerfed on damage in the first place, just the radius of the explosion should have been touched so the krysae would've been on par with the BW as in possible to kill 2 with one shot, 1 shot on mook and with the radius I want it to have , only maxed to kill 1-2 enemies.

Disclaimer : these suggestions are my vision, I like the game as it is now, ai would just do these things to spice up the game.

[Grunt_Platform]

The Waffle Cat wrote...

1. Ive never seen a GE go melee build and if you do it then you got brave balls bit are just stupid ad its a 1 way trip to the grim reaper

2. The GI an pull of numbers of over 2.2k with his heavy melee, it would still be the most used eavy hitter if there was no krysae in rebellion.

Stop try to justify that the GI melee build isnt strong or weak, as it simply isnt its the melee version of the krysae.

Trying to parse your last sentence, but: I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm asking you to state why you feel the change is warranted, as apparently everybody else who's contributed to this thread doesn't feel it's self-evident.

Anyway, to 1: One of the explicitly stated goals of these proposals is to improve melee for all classes, so that GI isn't the only class who will even consider speccing into melee. Your proposed nerf hits non-melee builds even harder, as it takes away the Geth Engineer's panic button. If its heavy melee had 50% less base damage, it wouldn't even be useful for finishing off damaged Nemeses on Gold.

To 2: ... So? That's barely enough to kill a Cannibal. The exact number, by the way is 2472.6 for a Geth Infiltrator who has seriously speced all the way into dealing melee damage. And with the other proposed changes, that's among the weaker Heavy Melees in the game.

And I didn't say anything about the Krysae. Remember that Shield Pulse is an extremely risky attack. To clarify further: How could Shield Pulse possibly be overpowered if even people using shotgun-melee builds still rarely find a reason to use it?

The Waffle Cat wrote...

I'm talking about the krysae as it is now, it shouldn't has been nerfed on damage in the first place, just the radius of the explosion should have been touched so the krysae would've been on par with the BW as in possible to kill 2 with one shot, 1 shot on mook and with the radius I want it to have , only maxed to kill 1-2 enemies.

Disclaimer : these suggestions are my vision, I like the game as it is now, ai would just do these things to spice up the game.

Sure. But your proposed Krysae nerf would mean that with the 15% effective nerf it's already facing in this thread.. There'd be pretty much no reason to use the gun anymore, especially on non-Infiltrators.

Modifié par EvanKester, 21 juin 2012 - 11:31 .

[Hakuthehedgehog]

Is it possible to easily change TC to act like AR in the sense you can only fire off a power if you take the bonus power evolution?

That would be a quick fix that would make the infiltrators actually care about weight should they need to spam powers, while still making them very good weapon users.