724 réponses à ce sujet

[Atheosis]

molecularman wrote...

Metal Vile wrote...


I suppose it does also achieve, ultimately, the same effect.  The only reason I suggested it is because I was under the impression that some people perhaps felt uncompelled to take the bonus grenades option anymore seeing as you can use Grenade Gear to get 5 more instead, but it seems the general consensus is that the competeing Rank 5 evolution for most of the grenade powers is pretty crummy / not good enough, thus everyone still takes more grenades anyways.

THIS is why I personally feel tweaking the capacity gear itself would be a better (temporary) solution. Gear kind of makes capacity evolutions useless and for instance arc grenade rank 5 cap evo might become a lot more appealing if gear gave you a bit less grenades.

And when we get a patch in the distant future it could add some +damage to those blank ranks

How are gear ranks that grant no bonus a better solution?  For that matter how is Thermal Packs that give you 5 or 6 grenades at a time rather than 4 a better solution?  I mean if the capacity evolutions are made redundant versus gear, wouldn't it be better to just buff them?

[molecularman]

Atheosis wrote...

molecularman wrote...

Metal Vile wrote...


I suppose it does also achieve, ultimately, the same effect.  The only reason I suggested it is because I was under the impression that some people perhaps felt uncompelled to take the bonus grenades option anymore seeing as you can use Grenade Gear to get 5 more instead, but it seems the general consensus is that the competeing Rank 5 evolution for most of the grenade powers is pretty crummy / not good enough, thus everyone still takes more grenades anyways.

THIS is why I personally feel tweaking the capacity gear itself would be a better (temporary) solution. Gear kind of makes capacity evolutions useless and for instance arc grenade rank 5 cap evo might become a lot more appealing if gear gave you a bit less grenades.

And when we get a patch in the distant future it could add some +damage to those blank ranks

How are gear ranks that grant no bonus a better solution?  For that matter how is Thermal Packs that give you 5 or 6 grenades at a time rather than 4 a better solution?  I mean if the capacity evolutions are made redundant versus gear, wouldn't it be better to just buff them?

Well, I think it'd be a lot more simple if thermal packs always restored all of your ammo. Pointless ranks on gear look bad of course but there is really no perfect solution to this dilemma.

And buffing capacity evolutions... Is that really so necessary? Grenades are plenty powerful already. Dunno.

[Atheosis]

molecularman wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

molecularman wrote...

Metal Vile wrote...


I suppose it does also achieve, ultimately, the same effect.  The only reason I suggested it is because I was under the impression that some people perhaps felt uncompelled to take the bonus grenades option anymore seeing as you can use Grenade Gear to get 5 more instead, but it seems the general consensus is that the competeing Rank 5 evolution for most of the grenade powers is pretty crummy / not good enough, thus everyone still takes more grenades anyways.

THIS is why I personally feel tweaking the capacity gear itself would be a better (temporary) solution. Gear kind of makes capacity evolutions useless and for instance arc grenade rank 5 cap evo might become a lot more appealing if gear gave you a bit less grenades.

And when we get a patch in the distant future it could add some +damage to those blank ranks

How are gear ranks that grant no bonus a better solution?  For that matter how is Thermal Packs that give you 5 or 6 grenades at a time rather than 4 a better solution?  I mean if the capacity evolutions are made redundant versus gear, wouldn't it be better to just buff them?

Well, I think it'd be a lot more simple if thermal packs always restored all of your ammo. Pointless ranks on gear look bad of course but there is really no perfect solution to this dilemma.

And buffing capacity evolutions... Is that really so necessary? Grenades are plenty powerful already. Dunno.

I'm not saying that the capaity evolutions should be buffed necessarily.  I'm saying that that would seem to be a better solution if Grenade Capacity is making them redundant rather than making gear ranks do nothing at all.  Besides we aren't talking about Thermal Packs not giving you max ammo, we are talking about them not giving you a megaton of explosives every time you use one.

[Cyonan]

I prefer reducing the amount of grenades the Thermal Clips give. 4 would put it roughly back to pre-Rebellion levels.

Making the Grenade Capacity mod give 1/1/2/2/3 just creates upgrades that don't do anything but disappoint you when you get them because the card was useless. We already have Character Cards to fill that particular role =P

[FlowCytometry]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

I
really would prefer if grenade gear were left alone tbh, but I can see
reasons why it would need to be toned down somewhat.

Would you prefer reducing the maximmum number of grenades granted by Thermal Packs, if given the choice?

A Thermal Clip Pack grenades restored reduction would go a ways. I mean, you could still easily use Grenade Gear to freely take the alternate evolution to Capacity on whichever grenade power, but actually gathering 7-9 grenades up isn't that fast. So you get your 40% damage bonus from Inferno grenades and have 7 max grenades instead of 4, but you only restore 4 at a time... making thermal clips work about the same as they did before except now you've got that +40% damage evolution.  You can build up to a bigger grenade spam spike but you won't suddenly generate 16 grenades out of a magic hat.

I still find this rather awkward as opposed to elegant... but I can't think of any other alternatives that wouldn't require a patch besides changing all grenade powers, reducing the grenades granted by the grenade capacity gear, or altering thermal clip grenade restores. 

So which one do you guys like?

Thermal Clip Consumable
- Grenades restored reduced from 10 to 4

OR

Grenade Capacity Gear
- Progression changed from 1/2/3/4/5 to 1/1/2/2/3

OR do you just hate both xD

Hm.. Honestly GP, I think I'd rather have a solution that can adress the problem of having even one other grenader in the party making it a PITA to restock (really, if you took the time to run to or strategically postion urself nearby a ammo crate, you should be rewarded more consistently), yet also reducing the max grenade extreme. I'm not sure if you can do that just by editing the ini file, though 8(

I was thinking along the lines of-
20/40/60/80/100% chance to grant an extra grenade at ammo crates and between rounds. Ranks 2 and 4 give an extra 1 max capacity as well, so at R5 its 100% chance (w/ a cd at crates- which could actually be the internal tweaking point for balance) and +2 max capacity. I added thsoe to rank 2 and 4 because when a person is upgrading them going from 80% to guaranteed restore and putting a capacity increase at R5 would probably be too much, and at rank 2 as a nice mid-point to make the player want to keep trying to upgrade it after they first unlock it.

Out of ur suggestions, I'd prob go w/ option 1 till they can rethink the design.

Modifié par FlowCytometry, 24 juin 2012 - 10:55 .

[GodlessPaladin]

FlowCytometry wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

I
really would prefer if grenade gear were left alone tbh, but I can see
reasons why it would need to be toned down somewhat.

Would you prefer reducing the maximmum number of grenades granted by Thermal Packs, if given the choice?

A Thermal Clip Pack grenades restored reduction would go a ways. I mean, you could still easily use Grenade Gear to freely take the alternate evolution to Capacity on whichever grenade power, but actually gathering 7-9 grenades up isn't that fast. So you get your 40% damage bonus from Inferno grenades and have 7 max grenades instead of 4, but you only restore 4 at a time... making thermal clips work about the same as they did before except now you've got that +40% damage evolution.  You can build up to a bigger grenade spam spike but you won't suddenly generate 16 grenades out of a magic hat.

I still find this rather awkward as opposed to elegant... but I can't think of any other alternatives that wouldn't require a patch besides changing all grenade powers, reducing the grenades granted by the grenade capacity gear, or altering thermal clip grenade restores. 

So which one do you guys like?

Thermal Clip Consumable
- Grenades restored reduced from 10 to 4

OR

Grenade Capacity Gear
- Progression changed from 1/2/3/4/5 to 1/1/2/2/3

OR do you just hate both xD

Hm.. Honestly GP, I think I'd rather have a solution that can adress the problem of having even one other grenader in the party making it a PITA to restock (really, if you took the time to run to or strategically postion urself nearby a ammo crate, you should be rewarded more consistently), yet also reducing the max grenade extreme. I'm not sure if you can do that just by editing the ini file, though 8(

They probably could have just made all the maps have the 2-grenades-per-box thing that you see on Hydra, Jade, Goddess, and Ghost.  But instead they made grenade gear.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 24 juin 2012 - 10:54 .

[FlowCytometry]

That sounds pretty good, then grenade gear could be more sensible like a dmg increase per rank and 2-3 capacity increases thrown in. Less max, but not as much a pain to restock.

Modifié par FlowCytometry, 24 juin 2012 - 11:00 .

[GodlessPaladin]

FlowCytometry wrote...

That sounds pretty good, then grenade gear could be more sensible like a dmg increase per rank and 2-3 capacity increases thrown in. Less max, but not as much a pain to restock.

That kind of thing cannot be done with ini changes. 

[samb]

 Nice thread. It would be useful to consolidate all opinions into one thread so on the off chance BE does read it, they know where to go. 

Combat drone has been updated. Are we statisfied with them?  I personally think they should have a bit more shields. Was playing around with it last night and it dies very fast and the explosion damage and stagger is still not noticeable. 

Biotic charge's 6th evolution is bonus power, not 5th (that would be weapon and power synergy). Increasing to 50% sounds like a decent idea but I think giving it the recharge combo that throw has would really make thing interesting and promote team play as well as make the drell vanguard good. Players have to decide if they want full shields, or half the shields for two charges (provided they have a team mate to set them up). 

[molecularman]

Hell, if all ammo boxes gave you 2 grenades with individual timers for each player I'd probably have no problem at all with removing that gear altogether

Still feel like 11223 would be the least bad solution, people are used to getting worthless cards and ultimately it's only the end result which matters (unless you never max the gear)

[FlowCytometry]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

That kind of thing cannot be done with ini changes. 

yeah 8( just saying since its probable that someone at BW/EA is tracing this thread. They were reviewing how they implemented grenade gear last we heard, right?

Modifié par FlowCytometry, 24 juin 2012 - 11:13 .

[molecularman]

What do you mean with recharge combo, samb? Reset charge's cooldown after a BE? That would most likely be unbalanced (imagine 3 people warping big targets and 1 vanguard detonating them instantly)

[FlowCytometry]

molecularman wrote...

Hell, if all ammo boxes gave you 2 grenades with individual timers for each player I'd probably have no problem at all with removing that gear altogether

eh, they can't remove content they implemented, unless they want massive fan backlash :/ That does mean the gear would have to fundamentally change though (it would be less akward if its max rank was 3, but ofc its too late for that too).

As far as Samb's idea- I dun really think much needs to change much about BC as far as stats (well okay the reset evolve is poor, but GP covered that). It seems the PV's charge fail to restore shields sometimes (I'm assuming its an occasional glitch- specced for 100% shield restore, but maybe I've just been having some bad luck w/ him). The main things that need to change w/ BC are lag-related, imo- which ultimately can't really be solved on their end w/ the servers (poor design choice, but no real going back on it now).

That said, if there was a feature to teleport players glitching off the map to the LZ after a short time, that would be wonderful! (there's already code in there to recognize when an enemy that isn't actiually dead has been flung off the accessible/walkable parts of the map- insta killing it to deal w/ the 'problem'- there must be a way to check this for players) That's outside the scope of this thread though.


Late edit: Oh, the drone. I find it quite effective now- detonate tends to stagger even big mobs from my xp. It would be nice if they made it more clear how the AI behaves w/ each evolve, as its can be quite drastic- a detonate drone behaves differently than a r3 drone, or a rocket drone, and they all have different affinity to draw or avoid aggro. For how dynamic it could be, the power could use a bit more description (and the rocket drone a bit better AI; it doesn't seem to check for obstacles that well when it locks on an enemy)

Modifié par FlowCytometry, 24 juin 2012 - 11:43 .

[Creighton72]

How does increasing the damage of the Jav help it? Shield gate is still shield gate on gold, and on silver and Bronze you clearly do not need to buff it. Also why do you nned to increase the geth basic melee? It has one of the most powerful power melee's in the game already.

[GodlessPaladin]

Creighton72 wrote...
Also why do you nned to increase the geth basic melee? It has one of the most powerful power melee's in the game already.

One option being good doesn't mean that another option should be laughably useless, and every action comes at the opportunity cost of every other action that could have been performed in that time frame.  With the suggested change it's just mostly useless.

FlowCytometry wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

That kind of thing cannot be done with ini changes. 

yeah
8( just saying since its probable that someone at BW/EA is tracing this
thread. They were reviewing how they implemented grenade gear last we
heard, right?

Eric Fagnan has actually posted in our discussion group saying that some of our changes are being considered, so yeah, BW is tracing our suggestions.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 24 juin 2012 - 11:48 .

[Creighton72]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Creighton72 wrote...
Also why do you nned to increase the geth basic melee? It has one of the most powerful power melee's in the game already.

One option being good doesn't mean that another option should be laughably useless, and every action comes at the opportunity cost of every other action that could have been performed in that time frame.  With the suggested change it's just mostly useless.

Yes but you can use your power melee just like a regular melee with the geth. Not to mention you have classes listed with a weaker melee than the geth and your not boosting those as high. What I am getting is for some classes it's okay but not for the already very powerful geth?

[FlowCytometry]

My critique w/ the Geth's heavy melee just has to do w/ not making the channel pointless next to canceling after the first pulse repeatedly (but I guess like reload canceling some may see that as a skill feature rather than a balancing point- it does mean many more players trying a GI melee spec they heard about will die more often if they just sit there and channel in a crowd). Geth's light melee is.. hah, yes also pointless atm; I think the proposed buffs are in line.

Eric Fagnan has actually posted in our discussion group saying that some
of our changes are being considered, so yeah, BW is tracing our
suggestions.

Awesome 8) Nice to hear that.

Modifié par FlowCytometry, 24 juin 2012 - 11:50 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Creighton72 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Creighton72 wrote...
Also why do you nned to increase the geth basic melee? It has one of the most powerful power melee's in the game already.

One option being good doesn't mean that another option should be laughably useless, and every action comes at the opportunity cost of every other action that could have been performed in that time frame.  With the suggested change it's just mostly useless.

Yes but you can use your power melee just like a regular melee with the geth. Not to mention you have classes listed with a weaker melee than the geth and your not boosting those as high. What I am getting is for some classes it's okay but not for the already very powerful geth?

  What are you talking about?  There is no class with a weaker light melee than the Geth.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 24 juin 2012 - 11:50 .

[Creighton72]

You gave the geth the most powerful light melee in the game by a mile. A 400 damage light melee? At 200 it's more powerful than most. So again your calling that a joke when it's one of the high end light melee attacks and you want it to be the highest in the game. 70 Points higher than a Krogan? Really?

[Creighton72]

You need to read your own melee changes. Either you posted the wrong numbers or I am crazy.

[GodlessPaladin]

Creighton72 wrote...

You need to read your own melee changes. Either you posted the wrong numbers or I am crazy.

It's the latter.  You need to interpret numbers in a meaningful context.  That number is a small part in a larger equation.  Geth light melee is slower than some heavy melees.  Including the Geth's.  To say that "At 200 it's more powerful than most" is just... misguided.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 24 juin 2012 - 11:58 .

[JGDD]

Patch notes: If a power can only affect a limited number of targets, other enemies should be prioritized before swarmers.

Should also add that Krysae shots (as long as the proximity detonation remains) ignore swarmers in a likewise manner.

Speaking of the Krysae...surprised you guys didn't bring this up for consideration. Removing the aerial detonations and making it strictly an explode on contact projectile plus buffing it back to where it was would fit in well with your change proposals. The weapon was not overpowered previously (pre-nerf) as much as it was poorly implemented.

[molecularman]

Hmm. Now that I think about it, 400 might not be completely balanced with phoenix light melee - the phoenix version seems to take longer yet they both would do the same damage, AFAIK

[FlowCytometry]

Yeah, base dmg isn't everything. You also have to consider the animation speed and weigh it vs. other options like aoe/stagger ability, or extra DR offered by the heavy version. In the case of Geth, their light melee is quite slow (due to its long recovery) and doesn't offer any aoe or aoe stagger benefits like the heavy melee pulse does (remember- its also competing for the heavy melee in use, not simply vs. other class' light melee). Krogan headbutt is quite a bit faster regardless.

Vs. PV/PA light melee- their overall speed is similar to Geth's, just that the Geth's has a long recovery, where the Phoenix's has a long windup.
(quick check using matching cds on smash or turret in game as a rough timer- canceling smash to melee as the cd popped had them end about the same time of about 1.8-9 sec (~135% cd reduct); the phoenix melee has a bit at the end where he's putting the whip away and readying his wpn that can be cancelled by moving- a stand-still aesthetic if you will, Geth's anim about matched it in terms of when you regained control).

Modifié par FlowCytometry, 25 juin 2012 - 12:29 .