724 réponses à ce sujet

[BooPi]

Love it. Even though I can be a bit defensive about my Infiltrators (love being a burst damage invisible ghost of doom), I can get behind these wholeheartedly.

I still think soldiers need work in this context, though. Don't want to see their damage increased, but rather their utility. Maybe more damage reduction with AR? Since it's exclusionary with damage, it wouldn't be an outright buff but rather a better sidegrade for people looking for better utility out of the class instead of straight DPS.

Also, I always liked the idea of the soldier as being able to carry more weapons than anybody else--sort of being able to have the right weapon for any situation. It'd be nice if soldiers had a much more drastic advantage in carrying capacity over other classes. I always thought soldiers would be a class where you could carry around a heavy ranged weapon and a heavy CQC weapon and still have good cooldown.

That's a buff, but sort of an indirect one, since it doesn't directly boost potential in combat. Just the ability to participate in different types of combat depending on the situation. I know Soldier could easily go into OP territory with a direct boost in combat potential, the issue with him is more that his role isn't as clearly defined as it could be versus, say, an Infiltrator.


Food for thought, no?

Modifié par BooPi, 19 juin 2012 - 07:52 .

[DarkerCompanion]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

DarkerCompanion wrote...

Hey Godless,

Really like the balance changes. While a lot of the guns recieved pretty across the board buffs that I am not entirely convinced are necessary, the sniper one took me a while to understand.

The only guns that got straight up buffs were the...
-Disciple (10% damage increase, stagger chance increase)
-N7 Eagle (10% damage increase, minimum weight NERF)
-N7 Crusader (15% weight decrease, 20% damage increase)
-Revenant (10% damage increase)

Then there was...
-Sniper Rifles (null sum on Infiltrators, made better for non-Infiltrators)
-Ultra rare weight progression changes (max weights mostly stayed the same)

Thats exactly it; I didn't initially realize it was all a huge part of your sweeping sniper rifle adjustment, which I whole-heartedly approve of. I guess I should have been more clear about that in my post. My thoughts were a little disorganized with so much to take in at once.

[neteng101]

More thoughts...

Sniper change to make them more relevant to other characters does have one negative...  we'll likely see more Asari snipers as a result of this.  We'll actually see more characters overall carrying snipers too (which I understand is your intent).  Gameplay-wise, I'm not sure if having everyone run around with snipers is actually a good idea.  Nice thought, but some characters are better focused on powers vs. sniping, and this change upsets that balance.

Javelin
- Given we can't do anything about shield-gating, reduce weight to that of the Claymore/Black Widow
- Increase damage by about 10% (again given the shield-gating we can do nothing about)

[Blind2Society]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Krogan
-Base heavy melee damage increased from 700 to 735
-Base light melee damage increased from 300 to 330

Batarian
-Base melee damage increased from 1000 to 1050
-Base light melee damage increased from 190 to 210

Anybody else see a glaring issue here? Not with your balance changes but with the way things are now.

The Krogan has 300 less melee damage than a Batarian? Is BioWare high?

I also really like your weapon balance ideas, particularly the BW, disciple and Valiant.

However, for the mantis, I would simply make it reload like the Valiant. Still only one shot but reloads like the valiant.

[GodlessPaladin]

DarkerCompanion wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

DarkerCompanion wrote...

Hey Godless,

Really like the balance changes. While a lot of the guns recieved pretty across the board buffs that I am not entirely convinced are necessary, the sniper one took me a while to understand.

The only guns that got straight up buffs were the...
-Disciple (10% damage increase, stagger chance increase)
-N7 Eagle (10% damage increase, minimum weight NERF)
-N7 Crusader (15% weight decrease, 20% damage increase)
-Revenant (10% damage increase)

Then there was...
-Sniper Rifles (null sum on Infiltrators, made better for non-Infiltrators)
-Ultra rare weight progression changes (max weights mostly stayed the same)

Thats exactly it; I didn't initially realize it was all a huge part of your sweeping sniper rifle adjustment, which I whole-heartedly approve of. I guess I should have been more clear about that in my post. My thoughts were a little disorganized with so much to take in at once.

Nah you were clear.  I was just clarifying for others who might have been confused, since I've seen at least 2 confused people in this thread already.  Heh.

[Grunt_Platform]

rymoulton wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...
[...]

We also recognize Grenade Gear as an issue, though currently I have no elegant ideas for addressing it.  I mean, it's not like we can decrease the number of grenades it grants at each level upgrade (1).

Changing grenade gear is out of the scope of the thread here, but if I could make any change to grenade gear in a patch it would be instead of 5 extra grenades, 3 extra grenades with one level being a damage boost and another level being a radius boost.

I like this! But maybe instead of swapping levels for things, use the existing mechanics for 3 Grenades at rank V with a +10% boost to Grenade damage and radius (just enough to obscure the missing 2 grenades without being OP). But unless the INIs can change more than I thought.. yeah, that's patch material.

Anyway, I guess this is my wishlist for "Don't know if the INIs can fix this or not"

• Human Soldier's health and shields could use a slight buff. Base 600 or 700 would be fine. Enough to feel bulkier than casters, but not enough to out-bulk the other soldiers.
• Incinerate evolution 5... yeah. Exactly as in OP. It's worthless as is.
• Concussive Shot Evolution 5 (Amplification) is bugged, but it would be really situational even if it weren't. It makes a gear dependant class even more gear dependant. Evolution 3 has the same problem. Even worse since an actually frozen target should already shatter on impact with whatever surface you knock them into, even without the damage boost.
• The force/stagger resistance buffs for krogan and batarians already mentioned.

Things I would like to know: How does the Combat Drone Shock evolution actually interact with the Chain Lightning evolution? How does the drone decide which attack to use, or can it use both? Is there any damn way to make the rockets useful?

Other than that, the most obvious thing for the drone would probably be to up its shields and damage. Even a drone maxed for damage and shields doesn't last long or deal much damage on Gold. But that feels inelegant.

[landylan]

you could give the vanguard charge dmg bonuses less bonus and more duration so they can be stackable. i thought it would be cool to force them to keep charging to keep their damage but be able to get the same damage as an inf if they keep charging. i like the ultra rare weapons idea about weight. Fagnan fix smash. buff the Fagnan.

also i hate how races all have to the same stats, even in different classes...human soldier be buff...engineer is skinny sissy

Modifié par landylan, 19 juin 2012 - 07:49 .

[Grunt_Platform]

Blind2Society wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Krogan
-Base heavy melee damage increased from 700 to 735
-Base light melee damage increased from 300 to 330

Batarian
-Base melee damage increased from 1000 to 1050
-Base light melee damage increased from 190 to 210

Anybody else see a glaring issue here? Not with your balance changes but with the way things are now.

The Krogan has 300 less melee damage than a Batarian? Is BioWare high?

The krogan light melee is much stronger, and the batarian heavy melee has the longest attack animation in the game. The krogan, unlike the batarian, can easily chain a light melee into a heavy melee.

Modifié par EvanKester, 19 juin 2012 - 07:50 .

[GodlessPaladin]

EvanKester wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Krogan
-Base heavy melee damage increased from 700 to 735
-Base light melee damage increased from 300 to 330

Batarian
-Base melee damage increased from 1000 to 1050
-Base light melee damage increased from 190 to 210

Anybody else see a glaring issue here? Not with your balance changes but with the way things are now.

The Krogan has 300 less melee damage than a Batarian? Is BioWare high?

The krogan light melee is much stronger, and the batarian heavy melee has the longest attack animation in the game. The krogan, unlike the batarian, can easily chain a light melee into a heavy melee.

Also notable, the Krogan can get more melee damage bonuses than the Batarian due to things like Rage and Fortification.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 19 juin 2012 - 07:58 .

[molecularman]

landylan wrote...

you could give the vanguard charge dmg bonuses less bonus and more duration so they can be stackable. i thought it would be cool to force them to keep charging to keep their damage but be able to get the same damage as an inf if they keep charging.

Cool idea!

[Fortack]

neteng101 wrote...

Sniper change to make them more relevant to other characters does have one negative...  we'll likely see more Asari snipers as a result of this.  We'll actually see more characters overall carrying snipers too (which I understand is your intent).  Gameplay-wise, I'm not sure if having everyone run around with snipers is actually a good idea.  Nice thought, but some characters are better focused on powers vs. sniping, and this change upsets that balance.

It should be up to the player to chose if they want to focus on power-spamming or mix things up with good and powerful weaponry - without gimping themselves really hard on purpose. It's really dull when all Adepts use a pew-pew pistol and all Infiltrators sniper rifles. The whole point of these changes is to makes more weapons & abilities viable options so there will be more customization options = a good thing, no?

[Commander Castillo]

I agree with most of your suggestions, but TC is fine as is and should be left alone

[Manuel La Bor]

Almost every single one of these changes opens up new paths in gameplay to some extent. Excellent work all around. Eagerly awaiting more AR's and silver/common weapon changes.

[GodlessPaladin]

BooPi wrote...
I still think soldiers need work in this context, though. Don't want to see their damage increased, but rather their utility. Maybe more damage reduction with AR? Since it's exclusionary with damage, it wouldn't be an outright buff but rather a better sidegrade for people looking for better utility out of the class instead of straight DPS.

  Human Soldiers are already really hard to kill with Hardened Shield Restoring Adrenaline Rush.  Try it out... mine walks around out in the open against Reapers on Condor without hardly a care in the world about being shot at by Marauders or Ravagers.

Human Soldiers in general are a very good class right now.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 19 juin 2012 - 08:10 .

[molecularman]

Commander Castillo wrote...

I agree with most of your suggestions, but TC is fine as is and should be left alone

That wasn't really much of a nerf to TC so no harm done there.

IMHO, TC could easily take a bit bigger nerf

[GodlessPaladin]

Manuel La Bor wrote...

Almost every single one of these changes opens up new paths in gameplay to some extent. Excellent work all around. Eagerly awaiting more AR's and silver/common weapon changes.

Thanks, that is what I was going for

[Elite3141]

I personally think a balance patch would be a lot more productive. Even with the changes you suggested, Singularity cannot compete with Adrenaline Rush, Tactical Cloak, or Biotic Charge. I personally don't think it can be buffed to compete with them without changing the physics of it, which can only be done in a patch (as far as I know).

Plus a balance patch could bring the current balance changes to single-player. Singleplayer Tech Armor needs more love.

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

Elite3141 wrote...

I personally think a balance patch would be a lot more productive. Even with the changes you suggested, Singularity cannot compete with Adrenaline Rush, Tactical Cloak, or Biotic Charge. I personally don't think it can be buffed to compete with them without changing the physics of it, which can only be done in a patch (as far as I know).

Plus a balance patch could bring the current balance changes to single-player. Singleplayer Tech Armor needs more love.

You've got a good point. The problem is, there's only so much you can do through the weekly patches, and changing mechanics isn't possible, only values. What would, in my opinion, be a good buff for singularity, is to make it affect shielded enemies and/or make it instant cast instead of projectile-based. But that's not possible atm.

[Achire]

Drell Vanguard. How to buff him without making Drell Adept even better?

[Cyonan]

Numbers on the Combat Drone

Basic Attack

Base Damage: 40
Force: 175N
Cooldown: 3 seconds

Evolve 3 Shock Upgrade

Base Damage: 100
Force: 450N
Maximum Number of Targets: 2
Maximum Range: 1.9 Meters
Cooldown: 5 seconds

Evolve 5 Rocket Upgrade

Base Damage: 250
Force: 350N
Cooldown: 4 seconds

The Chain Lightning upgrade affects the basic attack to hit 3 targets every time.

There is a jump delay of 0.5 seconds, and a max jump distance of 10 meters.

Modifié par Cyonan, 19 juin 2012 - 08:22 .

[Blind2Society]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Sniper Rifles!
All sniper rifles save the Krysae have had their damage increased by 15% (20% for the Javelin) alongside a 15% reduction to Tactical Cloak's sniper rifle damage multiplier, keeping the effectiveness of sniper Infiltrators the same but making sniper rifles more competitively viable for other classes.  This also effectively nerfs the Krysae in the hands of sniper infiltrators just enough so that it doesn't one-shot shielded Gold mobs, while not affecting its potency in the hands of any other characters.

I have always been opposed to your suggested infiltrator balance changes, and as for duration decrease, I simply want it to still last for one full objective cap. However, with the damage nerf, I've really only been opposed because sniper rifles in this game don't do as much damage as they should even with cloak.

I think, if they added your sniper rifle buffs and made headshots bypass shieldgate (at least mostly) I would be more than happy to accept your changes.

GodlessPaladin wrote...
- Asari:  Asari are another race that don't like to give up points for Fitness at all (Stasis, Warp, Throw, Biotic Charge, and Lift Grenades are all Nice Things), and even if they did, well, they have their squishiness to consider.   On top of that, their melee is super-slow and super-risky and barely does more damage than other, faster area melee attacks.  Asari are squishy (except for Justicars) and melee fitness makes them MORE squishy and using heavy melee leaves you fairly defenseless.  As such, we felt that the Asari melee could really use some extra oomph.

I also very much agree with this.

GodlessPaladin wrote...
- Krogans:  Because they should smash things even more.  Search your feelings, you know it to be true.  Really though, I'm serious... there's not far too much point to taking Fortification and meleeing on Gold instead of just tossing Inferno Grenades to your heart's content and setting off explosions with Carnage, other than the occasional Phantom, a slight buff wouldn't hurt.  And that's just what it is... slight.  Perhaps the most meaningful thing is that they're under a bit less pressure to melee all the time, because the rage window is lengthened a bit.

For Krogans, I feel their melee should be AoE. Granted it would be quite small (just the size of their body and outstreched arm) but I think it would be a welcome change none the less.

As for changes that I feel are necessary that I don't think you mentioned

Proximity mine proximity needs to be increased by a meter or two. (not explosion radius)

Turians needs a roll.

Enemy evasion rates need to be drastically decreased. (for the sake of warp)

Enemy geth seriously need to be addressed.

- Primes: I would say each geth prime can only deploy one turret at a time and each has a total of two turrets. Their auto-cannon could probably use a tweak as well.

- Pyros: Pyros are armored so they should not be able to evade and their range needs to be decreased

- Hunters: Hunters are too fast, invisible, they stagger with each shot, each shot does crazy damage, they have shields, their shields regenerate in no time, they can shoot while staggered and there are a ton of them. Because of the drastic amount of OP here, I'm not exactly sure what needs to be changed.

 - Rocket Troopers: Rocket spam is a major issue. I feel they should only be able to shoot one rocket every, i don't know, 4 seconds or so. They also need to have an adjustment to the amount of time it takes them to target you.

- Troopers: Their GPRs are level 7000 or something crazy but it's not really an issue if the rest of the faction was balanced correctly. And not balanced concerning farming, they should be balanced to normal play.

There may be one or two balance changes I'm missing but those are the most important.


EDIT: Oh yes, and as I stated earlier, the mantis should reload like the valiant.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 19 juin 2012 - 08:28 .

[Atheosis]

Saaz5555 wrote...

Nice changes, but I think you missed a lot of weapons (ARs and SMGs).

A lot of these are still being worked on/debated.

[Atheosis]

Elite3141 wrote...

I personally think a balance patch would be a lot more productive. Even with the changes you suggested, Singularity cannot compete with Adrenaline Rush, Tactical Cloak, or Biotic Charge. I personally don't think it can be buffed to compete with them without changing the physics of it, which can only be done in a patch (as far as I know).

Plus a balance patch could bring the current balance changes to single-player. Singleplayer Tech Armor needs more love.

The changes proposed would actually make it a solid power in my opinion, but it's hard to know for sure without being able to playtest it.  

[Dynamik78]

too much thinking for me...I just like to shoot things and let the developers (which in this case play themself the game) do the balance
On the other hand I apprecciate the effort some players are making to help

[UKStory135]

Commander Castillo wrote...

I agree with most of your suggestions, but TC is fine as is and should be left alone

I don't think that TC needs a nerf either, but if it did, the nerf should only be at level 4 and not at level 6.  ATM, and even with the proposed buffs, there is no reason to use a sniper rifle on gold or silver.  Shotguns kill much faster, and give infiltrators11 level points to play with.  Sniper rifles aren't OP so they shouldn't be nerfed, any reduction in TC-6 is counter productive.