724 réponses à ce sujet

[Elite3141]

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

Elite3141 wrote...

I personally think a balance patch would be a lot more productive. Even with the changes you suggested, Singularity cannot compete with Adrenaline Rush, Tactical Cloak, or Biotic Charge. I personally don't think it can be buffed to compete with them without changing the physics of it, which can only be done in a patch (as far as I know).

Plus a balance patch could bring the current balance changes to single-player. Singleplayer Tech Armor needs more love.

You've got a good point. The problem is, there's only so much you can do through the weekly patches, and changing mechanics isn't possible, only values. What would, in my opinion, be a good buff for singularity, is to make it affect shielded enemies and/or make it instant cast instead of projectile-based. But that's not possible atm.

Hence why a balance patch would help.  Things that need a drastic amount of buffing, such as Singularity, could be brought up to par with the other class abilities.  I'm not quite sure how to balance Singularity in particular, but I'm almost certain a simple change in numbers won't allow it to compete with Tactical Cloak.

And I can't believe there's no mention of the shield gate.  When's the last time you saw the Widow or Javelin on Gold?  All I see nowadays are shotgun Infiltrators and the occasional Black Widow/Valiant user.  The shield gate almost completely kills the viability of singe-shot sniper rifles when multi-shot sniper rifles aren't hindered by the shield gate and do about the same or more damage in a cloak cycle.

[Blind2Society]

EvanKester wrote...

The krogan light melee is much
stronger, and the batarian heavy melee has the longest attack animation
in the game. The krogan, unlike the batarian, can easily chain a light
melee into a heavy melee.

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Also notable, the Krogan can get more melee damage bonuses than the Batarian due to things like Rage and Fortification.

I didn't really mean it in terms of balance, more that there is no way a Batarian is more powerful melee-wise than a Krogan.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 19 juin 2012 - 08:31 .

[neteng101]

Fortack wrote...

The whole point of these changes is to makes more weapons & abilities viable options so there will be more customization options = a good thing, no?

Maybe?  It already seems like weapon choices were part of the factor of how classes/races got designed (eg. some of the race passives) so I think BW actually wanted certain combos to be more favorable/better.  Same thing we have seen with the gear packages as well.  This change seems to go against all the base logic of character/weapon design choices that BW has previously already made.

My approach is more towards specializations so I think just having the variety of powers/weapons/characters/races is already choices plenty.  I disagree with the make all things relevant to everything else approach...  it promotes little variety in the end, just tack on whatever favorite weapon you have then on whatever character and always play with it.  Because it doesn't matter anymore that you're not picking a weapon suited to your class.

So I believe while its a sincere nice gesture, its rather misguided.  And it seems to go against the logic of the initial design/programming parameters of the BW developers.

[Atheosis]

neteng101 wrote...

Fortack wrote...

The whole point of these changes is to makes more weapons & abilities viable options so there will be more customization options = a good thing, no?

Maybe?  It already seems like weapon choices were part of the factor of how classes/races got designed (eg. some of the race passives) so I think BW actually wanted certain combos to be more favorable/better.  Same thing we have seen with the gear packages as well.  This change seems to go against all the base logic of character/weapon design choices that BW has previously already made.

My approach is more towards specializations so I think just having the variety of powers/weapons/characters/races is already choices plenty.  I disagree with the make all things relevant to everything else approach...  it promotes little variety in the end, just tack on whatever favorite weapon you have then on whatever character and always play with it.  Because it doesn't matter anymore that you're not picking a weapon suited to your class.

So I believe while its a sincere nice gesture, its rather misguided.  And it seems to go against the logic of the initial design/programming parameters of the BW developers.

I don't follow.  The weapon/power/class synergies wouldn't go anywhere with these changes.

[capn233]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

 Human Soldiers are already really hard to kill with Hardened Shield Restoring Adrenaline Rush.  Try it out... mine walks around out in the open against Reapers on Condor without hardly a care in the world about being shot at by Marauders or Ravagers.

I practically do that with an "all in damage" soldier.  The shield boost every 9s or whatever it works out to is what makes this possible.  That and the power of Mattock with fast finger and 97.5% bonus damage

As for the changes, I like most of them.  Just two things that I am not enamored with.

The base cloak duration of 4s seems like you may have gone just a little too low.  I guess it won't affect the people who only use it for damage boosting.  If Rank 3 duration is still a 30% bonus then damage spec cloak will end up with just a 5.2s cloak, which is less duration than you had in ME2 with just Rank 2 (which was 5.5).  Assassination Cloak was 6s without any duration bonuses.

I think  you are loading the duration evolution a little too much at the expense of the base.  I realize this is an effort to make long duration viable, but that isn't going to happen because there isn't really much reason to ever have huge duration, even during objective capping.  What will happen is people will still take damage and have a harder time with capping, and many will probably stop doing this.  If you are assuming this doesn't matter because skilled players will work around that anyway, I agree that they will, but disagree that this should be the only consideration.

The other thing is that while I like that you essentially transferred some of the damage bonus from cloak "evolution 6" to the SR's across the board, I do not think that weight drops are necessarily the right move on the couple that were changed.  In fact I think the anti-material rifles at the least should remain fairly heavy, and Krysae should be heavier than it is currently.  While it is nice that you are letting them do more damage on non infiltrators, the fact of the matter is that the big rifles should not be a good choice for casters.  In any event, you didn't go overboard with the weight changes, and it was to Ultra Rares which makes sense from that standpoint.  So not really a "do something different" suggestion, just an observation.

I would be very interested to see deliberation on uncommon weapons, since that is getting to the "potatoes" of the game.  Specifically the AR's

[DaDiddles]

Elite3141 wrote...

Hence why a balance patch would help.  Things that need a drastic amount of buffing, such as Singularity, could be brought up to par with the other class abilities.  I'm not quite sure how to balance Singularity in particular, but I'm almost certain a simple change in numbers won't allow it to compete with Tactical Cloak.

I'm not really sure I understand the comparison between Singularity and Tactical Cloak, but the changes that were proposed in the OP would make Singularity very, very useful.

Against Reapers, you could basically spawn a 10 second blender in a chokepoint that rips apart cannibals and husks, and would quickly rip through Marauders once their shields are down. Since most players tend to focus on the big guys, a lot of times it's the weaker enemies that slip by and murder people. Having a skill that could effortlessly thin out the hordes would be very useful.

[GodlessPaladin]

capn233 wrote...
The other thing is that while I like that you essentially transferred some of the damage bonus from cloak "evolution 6" to the SR's across the board, I do not think that weight drops are necessarily the right move on the couple that were changed.

  Check again... No sniper rifles got weight drops.  The Indra and Valiant actually got a weight nerf.  The only thing that got a weight drop was the Crusader.  However, all ultra-rares had their weight ranges narrowed.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 19 juin 2012 - 08:47 .

[Elite3141]

DaDiddles wrote...

Elite3141 wrote...

Hence why a balance patch would help.  Things that need a drastic amount of buffing, such as Singularity, could be brought up to par with the other class abilities.  I'm not quite sure how to balance Singularity in particular, but I'm almost certain a simple change in numbers won't allow it to compete with Tactical Cloak.

I'm not really sure I understand the comparison between Singularity and Tactical Cloak, but the changes that were proposed in the OP would make Singularity very, very useful.

Against Reapers, you could basically spawn a 10 second blender in a chokepoint that rips apart cannibals and husks, and would quickly rip through Marauders once their shields are down. Since most players tend to focus on the big guys, a lot of times it's the weaker enemies that slip by and murder people. Having a skill that could effortlessly thin out the hordes would be very useful.

The comparison between Singularity and Tactical Cloak is there because they are both class exclusive powers, like Adrenaline Rush, Tech Armor, Biotic Charge, and the Combat Drone.

And while it's nice that it would be able to rip through unprotected enemies, the fact remains that there aren't many unprotected enemies past the first few waves on Gold.  If you have to shoot their shields off, it doesn't save any time to use Singularity to finish them off as opposed to just shooting them.

[GodlessPaladin]

I think you are underestimating what the new Singularity can do.  Don't forget that it...
-Staggers shielded enemies, making them easy to handle with your weapon.
-Covers a considerable area with expand which will snap enemies up the moment their shields are gone.
-Kills lifted enemies for you if you fire and forget with Detonate.
-Allow for easy one-two melee kills on multiple Cannibals for a weapon synergy bonus.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 19 juin 2012 - 09:05 .

[robarcool]

Not bad. The damage increase on many weapons is what caught my attention. The thing is that weapons with high damage are supposed to be used to weapon proficient classes, who get more damage bonus in their powers than the casters. So those may not be needed.
But if Bioware implements them.... I will gladly take it!

Modifié par robarcool, 19 juin 2012 - 09:02 .

[FlowCytometry]

Overall good changes and most I like. I do disagree w/ leaving the Geth heavy melee as is (so you are okay w/ spamming the startup for all benefits? currently the channel on it is just a noob trap- that, imo, should change). Also, though I like the idea of making OL and ED easier to setup TEs w/, their base dmg should prob be scaled back a little if they can be put out faster.

I know this is outside the Fagnan-like parameters you setup, but what do you think of the changes to grenades? I think personally we should be going away from increased capacity and more toward improving grenade refreshes and pickup from boxes w/ the new gear. Capacity creates extremes where it still sucks when there's other grenaders in the group, but now you can suddenly push out 10-16 grenades back-to-back w/ a thermal.. that's a bit too extreme a design for my tastes.

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I think you are underestimating what the new Singularity can do.  Don't forget that it...
-Staggers shielded enemies.
-Covers a considerable area with expand which will snap enemies up the moment their shields are gone.
-Kills lifted enemies for you if you fire and forget with Detonate.
-Allow for easy one-two melee kills on multiple Cannibals for a weapon synergy bonus.

Even with the lowered duration of 10 seconds it can't compete with a power like proximity mine.

The best part of balance changes I think is the significantly higher DPS for the rank 5 evolution.

REMEMBER: When you take the rank 5 DPS evolution it doesn't only affect lifted enemies, it affects ALL enemies within its radius!

[Ektogamut]

Elite3141 wrote...
And while it's nice that it would be able to rip through unprotected enemies, the fact remains that there aren't many unprotected enemies past the first few waves on Gold.  If you have to shoot their shields off, it doesn't save any time to use Singularity to finish them off as opposed to just shooting them.

But if you use this right after getting someones shields off you take them out of the picture, like cryo blast or pull.  That is one less thing shooting at you.  If you continue to shoot at them they can still shoot back.

[GodlessPaladin]

FlowCytometry wrote...

Overall good changes and most I like. I do disagree w/ leaving the Geth heavy melee as is (so you are okay w/ spamming the startup for all benefits? currently the channel on it is just a noob trap- that, imo, should change). Also, though I like the idea of making OL and ED easier to setup TEs w/, their base dmg should prob be scaled back a little if they can be put out faster.

I know this is outside the Fagnan-like parameters you setup, but what do you think of the changes to grenades? I think personally we should be going away from increased capacity and more toward improving grenade refreshes and pickup from boxes w/ the new gear. Capacity creates extremes where it still sucks when there's other grenaders in the group,but now you can suddenly push out 10-16 grenades back-to-back w/ a thermal.. that's a bit too extreme a design for my tastes.

I agree that grenade gear is rather problematic balance-wise, but as you said many of the suggestions for it get away from the scope of Fagnanesque changes.  I do not currently have an elegant solution for solving the grenade gear issue within the scope of .ini edits.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 19 juin 2012 - 09:08 .

[Elite3141]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I think you are underestimating what the new Singularity can do.  Don't forget that it...
-Staggers shielded enemies

The stagger effect is less consistent than the Disciple's stagger.  In Mass Effect 2 it would stunlock nearly everything.  Scions, krogan, Harbinger... now it sometimes staggers shielded enemies.

Modifié par Elite3141, 19 juin 2012 - 09:11 .

[Blind2Society]

Elite3141 wrote...

The stagger effect is less consistent than the Disciple's stagger.

Which is saying something because that piece of garbage staggers once every three or four clips.<_<

[Cyonan]

For the new Singularity, the best part is the rank 5 evolve for 150 damage.

On a Human Adept with 35% Alliance Training + Mental Focuser V it would do 2205 damage over the 10 second duration of Singularity, then explode(If you have that perk) for another 956 damage for a total of 3161.

On a Phoenix Adept with 45% Phoenix Training + Mental Focuser V it would do 2355 damage over the duration of Singularity, then explode for another 1021 damage for a total of 3376 damage.

Individually that's not going to be a big deal every 10 seconds, but it's not like the Adept can't also be spamming Warp/Shockwave or Lash/Smash. It's actually quite a high amount of damage for the very short GCD that you suffer for Singularity, especially considering that it also CCs unprotected targets.

[GodlessPaladin]

What do you guys think of...

Striker Assault Rifle
- Damage increased from [144.7-180.9] to [159.2-199.0] (10%)
- Spare ammo increased from [48-60] to [58-72]

Falcon Assault Rifle
- Damage increased from [279.2-349] to [335-418.8] (20%)

Also, Fagnan spoke of a buff for the Arc Pistol.  If the Arc Pistol is to be buffed, my suggestion would be to actually lower the ROF to a point that no longer induces carpal tunnel syndrome for achieving full DPS, but have a compensating damage boost for roughly a null sum in moment-to-moment DPS.  However, this would grant the Arc Pistol a longer effective firing time and more per-clip DPS as well as more consistently allowing its full DPS. 

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 19 juin 2012 - 09:19 .

[Grunt_Platform]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Javelin Sniper Rifle
- Damage increased from [1030.5-1288.1] to [1236.6-1545.7] 
- Weight range changed from [3.0-2.4] to [2.7-2.4]
[...]
- The  Javelin can now kill a Cannibal with one body shot in the hands of any character with at least a 7.5% damage bonus.  Still super heavy though.  A weight decrease could be justified too.

One quick thought. While I would love a weight drop on the Javelin, there might still be ways to make it worth its weight, even as a single shot sniper with low capacity. Right now, most of its damage is wasted against regular mobs, either due to shield gate or simply because its damage is more than enough to kill them. That's fine, and its speed at killing bosses is a plus.

I do think, however, that the gun's main selling point is its enhanced scope, and high penetration. As it stands even with an AP mod equipped 2.35 meters of penetration isn't enough to really expand potential firing angles on most maps. Enemies tend to flicker in and out of its penetration range rapidly, even considering the air bubbles in some walls. Where it is enough, the Widow's 0.5m - 1.85m of penetration is usually equally sufficient. The Javelin tends to just barely fall short because players will be hitting obstructions at an angle, rather than straight on.

Improving its penetration distance by as little as 0.5m (for 1.5m—2.85m) would really sell its advantages against the Widow, without allowing it to shoot through large obstructions like the crates on Firebase White.

[GodlessPaladin]

Adding a Javelin penetration change to weapon suggestions looking for feedback before being added to the main post.

Some changes I'm iffy on.  What do you guys think of...

Striker Assault Rifle
- Damage increased from [144.7-180.9] to [159.2-199.0] (10%)
- Spare ammo increased from [48-60] to [58-72]

Falcon Assault Rifle
- Damage increased from [279.2-349] to [335-418.8] (20%)

Javelin Sniper Rifle
- Penetration distance increased from 1 meter to 2 meters

Also, Fagnan spoke of a buff for the Arc Pistol. If the Arc Pistol is to be buffed, my suggestion would be to actually lower the ROF to a point that no longer induces carpal tunnel syndrome for achieving full DPS, but have a compensating damage boost for roughly a null sum in moment-to-moment DPS. However, this would grant the Arc Pistol a longer effective firing time and more per-clip DPS as well as more consistently allowing its full DPS.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 19 juin 2012 - 09:27 .

[Cyonan]

Personally, I don't think that the Falcon needs 20% more damage. It already is amazing crowd control and AoE due to the stagger. I would say maybe around 10% or so. The Striker could use a bigger damage upgrade than the Falcon, imo. Ammo is certainly something that the Striker needs more of.

Increase in penetration for the Javelin is nice to set it more apart from the Widow. Ideally it would be able to bypass shield gating a bit, but that's not a coalesced change, unless they nerf the shield gate for every weapon.

[Grunt_Platform]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

What do you guys think of...

Striker Assault Rifle
- Damage increased from [144.7-180.9] to [159.2-199.0] (10%)
- Spare ammo increased from [48-60] to [58-72]

Falcon Assault Rifle
- Damage increased from [279.2-349] to [335-418.8] (20%)

Also, Fagnan spoke of a buff for the Arc Pistol.  If the Arc Pistol is to be buffed, my suggestion would be to actually lower the ROF to a point that no longer induces carpal tunnel syndrome for achieving full DPS, but have a compensating damage boost for roughly a null sum in moment-to-moment DPS.  However, this would grant the Arc Pistol a longer effective firing time and more per-clip DPS as well as more consistently allowing its full DPS. 

All three sound good to me. After using the Arc Pistol some more, upping its damage and lowering its ROF to be in-line with the Phalanx or Predator would work beautifully. It would also buff its charged shot indirectly, which is worth considering.

For the Falcon, a -slight- buff to its refire time would also be good (maybe with a smaller damage buff to compensate). Right now it's sitting at a really uncomfortable spot that makes it hard to fire it at its full ROF without heavy experimentation.

[GodlessPaladin]

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc

^---has suggested changes on there.  Note that R-DPS is DPS with reload cancelling, S-DPS is DPS without reload cancelling across multiple clips, B-DPS is burst DPS.  This DPS formula also takes into account human refire error and cycle loss.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 19 juin 2012 - 09:30 .

[SeaJayX]

Sabotage rank 6 tech vulnerability changed from 50% to 75%

[molecularman]

@GP : IMO, both falcon and striker could use bigger damage buffs. Krysae outperforms falcon in almost every way so at least +30% would definitely be reasonable, striker again.. well, +20% maybe?

SeaJayX wrote...

Sabotage rank 6 tech vulnerability changed from 50% to 75%

also this.

Modifié par molecularman, 19 juin 2012 - 09:30 .