250 réponses à ce sujet

[rossignal]

I like to make it to extraction, but once the objective is completed I won't use anymore consumables. Especially I am the last to die and their are phantoms/banshees stand by me.

[kr3g]

I don't die on purpose, but i certanly will not "work hard" to get extraction.

Now, if they will give us 20k for full extraction on gold, i will care about it

[humes spork]

Gockey wrote...

Regardless of your fallacious diatribe, the fact remains that it is counterproductive to extract (on gold).  Arguing anything else is silly.

...so, in other words, completing wave 10 and extracting on gold is a poor ratio of cost to benefit. Which means you're already running cost-benefit analyses, and applying those to figure out the "best" way to play. The reason for this, which as you've stated, is to increase your credit/hour ratio. Yet, you're not using those same analyses to deduce the fastest possible way to clear gold through to wave 10's objective then wipe.

If the metric for the "best", the "optimal", or even the "not counterproductive" way to play is maximizing your credits per hour, then unless you're doing that in any way possible you're being "silly". You've already excluded completing wave 10 and extracting as a viable way to play. Case in point, calling it "selfish", "asinine", "silly", "counterproductive", and most tellingly a penalty. Which, in turn means by inference anything that doesn't increase credit/hour ratio must be less viable.

Now, it's been pretty well established that the best possible way to maximize credits/hour is to run four drell adepts on glacier/cerberus/gold, since you can spawn bomb with extreme rapidity and effectiveness then mop up with high-powered weapons. Alternatively, four geth infiltrators on the same map. And either way, wipe after wave 10's objective is complete. It's been documented by anecdote and backed by video evidence. So, if the primary metric for optimization and viability -- by your own commentary -- is credits/hour, unless you're doing that you're just being selfish, asinine, silly, penalizing yourself and your team, or what have you.

But, from your posts you're clearly not doing that, which means you're arbitrarily using cost-benefit analyses to suit yourself. Which is what I said to begin with. So...yeah. I'm going with "colossal ******". Like it or not, min/maxing is a one-way street and an all-or-nothing affair, lest you just illuminate yourself as arbitrary and somewhat hypocritical.

Modifié par humes spork, 20 juin 2012 - 06:05 .

[Gockey]

 

humes spork wrote...

Gockey wrote...

Regardless of your fallacious diatribe, the fact remains that it is counterproductive to extract (on gold).  Arguing anything else is silly.

...so, in other words, completing wave 10 and extracting on gold is a poor ratio of cost to benefit. Which means you're already running cost-benefit analyses, and applying those to figure out the "best" way to play. The reason for this, which as you've stated, is to increase your credit/hour ratio. Yet, you're not using those same analyses to deduce the fastest possible way to clear gold through to wave 10's objective then wipe.

If the metric for the "best", the "optimal", or even the "not counterproductive" way to play is maximizing your credits per hour, then unless you're doing that in any way possible you're being "silly". You've already excluded completing wave 10 and extracting as a viable way to play. Case in point, calling it "selfish", "asinine", "silly", "counterproductive", and most tellingly a penalty. Which, in turn means by inference anything that doesn't increase credit/hour ratio must be less viable.

Now, it's been pretty well established that the best possible way to maximize credits/hour is to run four drell adepts on glacier/cerberus/gold, since you can spawn bomb with extreme rapidity and effectiveness then mop up with high-powered weapons. Alternatively, four geth infiltrators on the same map. And either way, wipe after wave 10's objective is complete. It's been documented by anecdote and backed by video evidence. So, if the primary metric for optimization and viability -- by your own commentary -- is credits/hour, unless you're doing that you're just being selfish, asinine, silly, penalizing yourself and your team, or what have you.

But, from your posts you're clearly not doing that, which means you're arbitrarily using cost-benefit analyses to suit yourself. Which is what I said to begin with. So...yeah. I'm going with "colossal ******".

 

*Yawn*

Another strawman argument.  You can throw up walls of text all day and attempt to quote me out of context all day long.  Your still just a troll.

Nothing you have written is disproves that it is pointless to play past wave 10.  The rest of you word vomit is comepletely tangent at best.  

Since you seem to have  keyboard warrior syndrome and feel the need to attack people I don't really think replying to you will solve anything.  Nonetheless I'll try to address the maining points you've put out.

As far as I know, it's been established the best way to do speed runs is GI's with a MQI or two.  Drell adepts constantly compete for grenade spawns and even with a capacity 5 upgrade your going to run out of thermal packs long before wave 10.   They respawn 2 at a time ofc, but it's slower than a Infi group.  

Then comes the more important part.  Do you know how hard it is to get 4 DA's that knwo what they are doing together?  People choose the wrong evo's on powers all the time.  Some max pull.  Either way infi lobbes are a lot easier to assemble making the time searching for games less too.  Maybe not true for another platform but it is for Xbox.  That would be a metric you failed to consider if your really trying to stretch your credit/hour theme to be all encompassing.

The point of all this is: it's pointless.  It's all fiction and a strawman argument.  Nothing makes extracting worthwhile.  We always grab pizza drop it up and then sprint at the atlas for a hug.  Why would you continue?  

It doesn't sound like you disagree (from the context of your last post) so why are you trying to argue?  Go flex your epeen elsewhere please. You fixated on the credits/hour part which insofar as extracing is concerned completely validates my assertion that extraction is a waste of time.  

 

kr3g wrote...

I don't die on purpose, but i certanly will not "work hard" to get extraction.

Now, if they will give us 20k for full extraction on gold, i will care about it

Agreed.  Lol if they give me 10k I would be incentivised.  

*pokes Fagnan* 

Modifié par Gockey, 20 juin 2012 - 06:19 .

[GordianKnot42]

Sdrol117 wrote...

Who cares if it was won, you got the credits. Winning serves no purpose.  Bioware gave us no purpose to extract.

You mean besides the fun?  The challenge to see if you can do it?  For simply the pure enjoyment of leaving our silly mirror-world for a while and pretending you're at the vanguard of a galactic war?

If you only play for credits and not the fun... WHY DO YOU PLAY?

[Gockey]

GordianKnot42 wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

Who cares if it was won, you got the credits. Winning serves no purpose.  Bioware gave us no purpose to extract.

You mean besides the fun?  The challenge to see if you can do it?  For simply the pure enjoyment of leaving our silly mirror-world for a while and pretending you're at the vanguard of a galactic war?

If you only play for credits and not the fun... WHY DO YOU PLAY?

Speed runs are fun though =)  Honestly, I simply have some need to complete that manifest.  With work and the wife consuming so much of my time, I want to make the most of my matches.  

A lot of people feel the same way (wanting to have a complete manifest) so I guess that's part of it.  Some of it is e-peen.  We want more digital items than *insert player/friend/random name here*.  Some people just want to be the best.

*shrug*  

At the end of the day, this would be most easily solved by Bioware just adding a bonus to extract (just like a bonus for completing objective waves quickly).  

[rossignal]

Gockey wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Gockey wrote...

Regardless
of your fallacious diatribe, the fact remains that it is
counterproductive to extract (on gold).  Arguing anything else is silly.

...so,
in other words, completing wave 10 and extracting on gold is a poor
ratio of cost to benefit. Which means you're already running
cost-benefit analyses, and applying those to figure out the "best" way
to play. The reason for this, which as you've stated, is to increase
your credit/hour ratio. Yet, you're not using those same analyses to
deduce the fastest possible way to clear gold through to wave 10's
objective then wipe.

If the metric for the "best", the "optimal",
or even the "not counterproductive" way to play is maximizing your
credits per hour, then unless you're doing that in any way possible
you're being "silly". You've already
excluded completing wave 10 and extracting as a viable way to play.
Case in point, calling it "selfish", "asinine", "silly",
"counterproductive", and most tellingly a penalty. Which, in turn means by inference anything that doesn't increase credit/hour ratio must be less viable.

Now,
it's been pretty well established that the best possible way to
maximize credits/hour is to run four drell adepts on
glacier/cerberus/gold, since you can spawn bomb with extreme rapidity
and effectiveness then mop up with high-powered weapons. Alternatively,
four geth infiltrators on the same map. And either way, wipe after wave
10's objective is complete. It's been documented by anecdote and backed
by video evidence. So, if the primary metric for optimization and
viability -- by your own commentary --
is credits/hour, unless you're doing that you're just being selfish,
asinine, silly, penalizing yourself and your team, or what have you.

But,
from your posts you're clearly not doing that, which means you're
arbitrarily using cost-benefit analyses to suit yourself. Which is what I
said to begin with. So...yeah. I'm going with "colossal ******".

 

*Yawn*

Another
strawman argument.  You can throw up walls of text all day and attempt
to quote me out of context all day long.  Your still just a troll.

Nothing
you have written is disproves that it is pointless to play past wave
10.  The rest of you word vomit is comepletely tangent at best.  

Since
you seem to have  keyboard warrior syndrome and feel the need to attack
people I don't really think replying to you will solve anything.
 Nonetheless I'll try to address the maining points you've put out.

As
far as I know, it's been established the best way to do speed runs is
GI's with a MQI or two.  Drell adepts constantly compete for grenade
spawns and even with a capacity 5 upgrade your going to run out of
thermal packs long before wave 10.   They respawn 2 at a time ofc, but
it's slower than a Infi group.  

Then comes the more important
part.  Do you know how hard it is to get 4 DA's that knwo what they are
doing together?  People choose the wrong evo's on powers all the time.
 Some max pull.  Either way infi lobbes are a lot easier to assemble
making the time searching for games less too.  Maybe not true for
another platform but it is for Xbox.  That would be a metric you failed
to consider if your really trying to stretch your credit/hour theme to
be all encompassing.

The point of all this is: it's pointless.
 It's all fiction and a strawman argument.  Nothing makes extracting
worthwhile.  We always grab pizza drop it up and then sprint at the
atlas for a hug.  Why would you continue?  

It doesn't sound like
you disagree (from the context of your last post) so why are you trying
to argue?  Go flex your epeen elsewhere please. You fixated on the
credits/hour part which insofar as extracing is concerned completely
validates my assertion that extraction is a waste of time.  

 

kr3g wrote...

I don't die on purpose, but i certanly will not "work hard" to get extraction.

Now, if they will give us 20k for full extraction on gold, i will care about it

Agreed.  Lol if they give me 10k I would be incentivised.  

*pokes Fagnan* 

You are criticaled by a wall of text! You take 10,000 points of damage! You die!

Modifié par rossignal, 20 juin 2012 - 07:31 .

[Gockey]

rossignal wrote...



You are criticaled by a wall of text! You take 10,000 points of damage! You die!

Dusting off a classic   Is it too soon for arrow to the knee to be a classic?

[a ViciousFerret]

Sdrol117 wrote...

a ViciousFerret wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

a ViciousFerret wrote...

donnyrides wrote...

why go to 10? you get the credits for wave 6 and die in about 12 minutes.

Way faster. BUT I only do this when farming with other people interested in Farming. 99,000 is lot of credits for a PSP. Everybody farms to some degree. I'd say I spend about 25% of my time farming and the rest is spent helping newer guys learn the ropes and leveling up.

People tend to be idiots and can't do numbers in their head.

For example, it is completely nonsensical to ever buy a Spectre Pack when Premium Spectre Packs are available. (For the same credits, you get 5 Gold cards in Spectre packs compared to 6 in Premium's) but I am certain people still do, even Farmers who spend hours grinding cash only to spend on Spectre packs.

You don't even comprehend the difference between PSP and SP, and then you call people nonsensical. Epic fail. 

Spectre Pack - 60,000 Credits - Includes at least 1 Rare or better.

Premium Spectre Pack - 99,000 creits - Includes at least 2 Rares or better and a higher chance for
Ultra-Rares.


300,000 / 60,000 = 5 Spectre Packs
300,000 / 99,000 = 3 Spectre Packs (I am rounding down)

5 Spectre packs *  1 Gold card =  5 Gold Cards
3 Premium Spectre Packs * 2 Gold cards = 6 Gold Cards + higher chance for Ultra-Rare's

Seems more like someone is an Epic Fail at basic math.

That awkward moment when somebody forgets about consumables and gear, both of which you get more of in SP. Noob. 

Nice try. Equipment Packs are that way -->

Do you think the farmers care about consumables? They want weapons.

Modifié par a ViciousFerret, 20 juin 2012 - 09:21 .

[eye basher]

Everytime i see this i revive them if i'm getting to extraction you are too.

[ElementL09]

There isn't really an incentive for getting full extraction besides xp, so if people choose to die and not participate in extraction thats fine by me.

[rossignal]

Gockey wrote...

rossignal wrote...



You are criticaled by a wall of text! You take 10,000 points of damage! You die!

Dusting off a classic   Is it too soon for arrow to the knee to be a classic?

I would go with it soon. It's only a matter of time before someone invokes Godwin's Law.

[Mekkloood]

I've just lost connection in wawe 11, 00:01. And this wasn't the first time. So i can understand, if somebody want finish the game after the credits ASAP.

Modifié par Mekkloood, 20 juin 2012 - 10:39 .

[humes spork]

Gockey wrote...

...Nothing you have written is disproves that it is pointless to play past wave 10...

Have you considered I'm addressing this sentiment, right here? Namely, that you've taken it upon yourself to denigrate and lecture others for playing the game in a manner you have deemed "pointless".

Personally, I enjoy completing wave 10 and extracting. It's a satisfying conclusion to a match that has, hopefully to that point, been well-played. I don't play to max credit gain, nor min-max or optimize in any other way. I play the game because I think the very act of playing alone is incentive enough -- that is to say, to have fun.

Would you want someone calling you selfish, silly, asinine, pointless, or any of these other abusive terms you've heaped upon people who like to extract because you dare play vanguard, as you mentioned earlier? It is a suboptimal class, after all. If being a munchkin is your idea of fun, more power to you. Don't denigrate others for having a different conception of fun than you, especially when your conception of what is an acceptable level of optimization is completely arbitrary.

[Seifer006]

Sdrol117 wrote...

I do it all the time. There is no point to wasting time extracting.

This

[Oggy666]

Gockey wrote...

Oggy666 wrote...

Hackett out wrote...

The worst is when you play with a room full of lvl 20 randoms and you go down after completing wave 10 obj and then they waste 3 of their medi gels trying to revive you, fail and then use all their rpgs trying not to loose the chance to get to extraction.

The worst is having you in the team...oh, seems like Xbox - one positive.

To the topic itself:

Do people play some other MP games where you gain nothing, just progress towards "finish"?
I mean, for example Left 4 dead, where the goal is to survive and get "extraction"? No credits, no buying things
to get better weapons and gear? Just having a lot of fun by playing?

The goal here is Full extraction (having fun and playing your best to achieve it)!!!

Of coarse I want credits for buying better things, but that comes along, and it isn't so important to me not
fighting 1,25 waves to extract.

In private games I don't care if you all die on purpose, but in my game hell not.
I saw idiots who go down 30sec left, away from LZ, I rush to them to revive and they don't even
press button to prolong life and die as I get to them - as if using one fking medigel would ruin their
poor lives filled with hunting game credits.
This is the reason (and not the only one) why all the credits shouldn't be gained by wave 10 objective.
Getting extra credits from Bioware? Not likely - so for the 75K max for gold match:
 
W10obj completed: 60K maximum (considering quick completion of objective rounds)
Sole survivor: + 2 500
2: +5 000
3: +10 000
Full extraction: + 15 000

Your solution would just encourage more people to farm.  You realize that right?  I never finish wave 10.  Once the objective is done, I'm off to melee a banshee/atlas/prime.  Sadly they sometimes die =(

Extraction is pointless.  In a good lobby you kill practically nothing on wave 10 unless it is a kill target wave.  Anyone arguing is doing it wrong.

No, it doesn't. It only gives them reason to play to the end - how it is meant to play. 3 more minutes is not that much, considering time about 25 min.  Why they don't go for speedruns?...in that time they could earn 150K.
No, they play 25-30 minutes to get 75K, die on purpose and say that extraction is pointless - now my "solution" gives the Point to the extraction: same money, same goal.....if extraction wasn't the point of this game, why is it there at all???

[Seifer006]

Mendelevosa wrote...

Recently I have noticed an increasing amount people not having the interest to complete the entirety of matches. Instead of completing wave 11, they will get themselves killed on purpose after they earn credits when completing the wave 10 objective. It seems this trend is occuring, because they feel there is no worthy incentive to survive until extraction. "I got all my credits. I don't need to keep playing. Might as well get slaughtered." This is dialogue that is similar to what I hear from such people. People feel that credits are much more valuable than 5% extra XP. I, myself have been tempted to purposely die on wave 10 just to get the match over with. Tying credits to the extration wave somehow could possibly end this dilemna.

Anyone else encounter people who do this? Have you felt the desire to just end it all on wave 10?

I do this all the time. My team does. The extra 10minutes isn't worth it....if you're at level 20. And Promoting characters is worthless if you're already at a high N7 Level Rating. And you're happy with your characters.

For those who really want Ultra-Rare Weapons and Upgrades, 30minutes is a long time...so anything to save time is it worth it IMO

[Reorte]

The point of the game is to play the game rather than gather credits that are only of use in playing the game, so I'll do whatever it takes to extract. It would be good if it wasn't just a pointless bit of XP for doing so though (I suspect "no credits at all if you don't extract" would be going too far).

[Patch3Z]

hahaha, it's so true.
i only try a little harder when my character isn't level 20 yet, but not enuff to use consumables

[WARMACHINE9]

i try to make extraction everytime as a point of pride, but I don't sweat it if I don't make it as long as I have The almighty creds. I think adding a credit incentive to extraction would be nice. I was just thinking how Silver seems a little light on creds after they Buffed the crap out of the enemies.

[Sacramentum]

I always extract. Period. Its fun.

[haruki61]

Silasqtx wrote...

Yeah, saw these imbeciles myself. A quickfix should be splitting the credit reward during wave 10 in half so that you get the same amount of credits on extraction.

This will force people to finish the game and do proper matches other than just mindless credit-farm.

That would be nice !!!
I must admit i don't remember having that kind of maches (maybe i didn't notice), but I didn't know there are so many aholes playing this game!!!

Cheers !

[raynebc]

Once your character is level 20, there's no incentive to earn experience. If they threw some credits at the end of extraction, then more people would try to finish. Or if they allowed your overflow experience to convert to an N7 level increment at least there'd be something to show for it except for wasted consumables.

Modifié par raynebc, 20 juin 2012 - 11:12 .

[rossignal]

death_for_sale wrote...

rossignal wrote...

Gockey wrote...

rossignal wrote...



You are criticaled by a wall of text! You take 10,000 points of damage! You die!

Dusting off a classic   Is it too soon for arrow to the knee to be a classic?

I would go with it soon. It's only a matter of time before someone invokes Godwin's Law.

I used to extract until I took an arrow to the knee.

Good, now that's out of the way, it's only a matter of time now. But before then I want to jump on to the next meme to sweep the nation, while it's still edgy and cool:

"That's a clown question, bro."

Modifié par rossignal, 20 juin 2012 - 11:58 .