269 réponses à ce sujet

[BrowncoatN7]

No, I don't like the chantry and wouldn't want to work for it.

[Patchwork]

As a common starting faction it could work. You have your abilities tutorial, learn some lore and background then the plot kicks off. You get kicked out or get an assignment that takes you out into the big wide world of Thedas.

As for the religious thing that can easily be skirted around by giving different dialogue responses; gungho yay Seekers! Phft whatever. Lying lair who hates you.

As far as I'm aware we don't know how Seekers are recruited so it could be skill and circumstance has landed the PC with the Seekers and the next move is up to the player.

Of course I also dream of origins like any class chasind, surfacer dwarf and Tal-Vashoth. Outsider backgrounds we haven't played before.

[berelinde]

^^ We do know how Seekers are recruited. They are hand-picked by the Divine from among the most capable and devout Andrastians. There is literally no way this would work as a politically or religiously neutral starting point.

[esper]

We know that the current seekers are either pro-templar or pro-chantry (which per da2 is not the same). It is a religious job in all apspect which is for doing thing for the chantry. I do not want to play a character who ever thought joining the seekers was the right thing to do.

[Silfren]

berelinde wrote...

^^ We do know how Seekers are recruited. They are hand-picked by the Divine from among the most capable and devout Andrastians. There is literally no way this would work as a politically or religiously neutral starting point.

Given the extremely unorthodox methods of the new Divine as per Asunder, it isn't set in stone that any Seekers she picks would be "devout" Andrastians, but that in large part depends on one's definition.  Leliana, for example, believes very strongly in Andraste and the Maker, but by official Chantry doctrines, she's not devout at all, but a heretic.  There actually is a fair amount of leeway for imagining the sort of character that Divine Justinia V would hand pick as a trusted Seeker.

[Silfren]

hussey 92 wrote...

It is different.  Theres a Mage Templer war going on during DA3 and being a Seeker would put you on the side of the Templers/Chantry.

No, it wouldn't, not automatically.  There is no reason at all to think that there wouldn't be Seekers who remained loyal, either to the Chantry in general or to Divine Justinia V in particular. 

[esper]

Silfren wrote...

berelinde wrote...

^^ We do know how Seekers are recruited. They are hand-picked by the Divine from among the most capable and devout Andrastians. There is literally no way this would work as a politically or religiously neutral starting point.

Given the extremely unorthodox methods of the new Divine as per Asunder, it isn't set in stone that any Seekers she picks would be "devout" Andrastians, but that in large part depends on one's definition.  Leliana, for example, believes very strongly in Andraste and the Maker, but by official Chantry doctrines, she's not devout at all, but a heretic.  There actually is a fair amount of leeway for imagining the sort of character that Divine Justinia V would hand pick as a trusted Seeker.

Leliana is not a Seeker and working for the Divine means working for the Chantry which I will not accept a character who does.

Also picking a character who are not in some way a devout Andrastian into a religous organiation removes the Divine from the weak leader who can't control her subjects category to the completely idiot category since such a recruitment is asking that person to betray the Divine at some point. The Divine is a personal friend of Leliana, she knows Leliana is devout in her own herectic way, the Divine is absolutely no personal friend of any character I should play.

[Melca36]

esper wrote...

We know that the current seekers are either pro-templar or pro-chantry (which per da2 is not the same). It is a religious job in all apspect which is for doing thing for the chantry. I do not want to play a character who ever thought joining the seekers was the right thing to do.

I agree.  There is NO WAY I could ever play a Seeker.  I have zero interest in playing religious characters and I can honestly say I would NOT get the game if that was the only choice.

[esper]

Melca36 wrote...

esper wrote...

We know that the current seekers are either pro-templar or pro-chantry (which per da2 is not the same). It is a religious job in all apspect which is for doing thing for the chantry. I do not want to play a character who ever thought joining the seekers was the right thing to do.

I agree.  There is NO WAY I could ever play a Seeker.  I have zero interest in playing religious characters and I can honestly say I would NOT get the game if that was the only choice.

I would get the game, I would give it a chance, but unless that Bioware really surprised me that would likely be my last game in dragon age.
(If for example the Chantry ends with going down because the main character is a seeker, I could get behind it by simple saying that the main character was a villain protagonist and got justice served at last).

[Travie]

I want to be able to choose (again).

I want to be a mage.
I want to be a warden.
I want to be a dragon hunter.
I want to be an elf.
I want to be a dwarf.
I want to be a devout follower of Andraste that scoffs at sin and corruption, and purges them with righteous fury... then turn around the very next game and be an atheist who thinks religion is silly, and mocks every follower he sees.
I want a extremely detailed world to play in, with heaps of lore and every nook and cranny filled with character and discovery
I want to find an ancient elf from before the quickening sleeping in a forgotten tomb.
I want to have a real impact on the world I've come to know through hundreds of hours of laughter and fun and (yes) tears.


... but I have no confidence they will do any of this.. because the saddest thing that I want most of all is...

I want to love Bioware again.

[BubbleDncr]

Seeker is a cool title, and I wouldn't mind NPC's calling me "Seeker" all game.

That said, from the little I know of Seekers, it doesn't make much sense to be a Seeker that wasn't human, unless there were some extraordinary circumstances going on (visions, prophecies, crazy oaths, no other options, etc). Which, as much as I like having different origins, I think would feel a bit too similar to DA:O: Normal human/elf/dwarf living their life, all hell breaks loose, and then they're forced into secret order to save the world. Been there, done that.

Maybe they could let you pick human, city elf, or surface dwarf (since they can all share the same voice actors), and then you start the game already as a seeker, with some backstory given to you as to how you became a seeker.

As to being a Seeker forcing you to be on the Chantry's side - I don't think that's necessarily true. I mean, you would start out as a Seeker, but you would still have a choice to me hard on the mages or sympathetic to them. I could see that ending up with you either sticking with the Chantry and helping it triumph, or breaking away to help the mages establish their own rules.

Modifié par BubbleDncr, 26 juin 2012 - 08:53 .

[berelinde]

Silfren wrote...

Given the extremely unorthodox methods of the new Divine as per Asunder, it isn't set in stone that any Seekers she picks would be "devout" Andrastians, but that in large part depends on one's definition.  Leliana, for example, believes very strongly in Andraste and the Maker, but by official Chantry doctrines, she's not devout at all, but a heretic.  There actually is a fair amount of leeway for imagining the sort of character that Divine Justinia V would hand pick as a trusted Seeker.

Regardless of the degree of orthodoxy of the Divine's choices, she is not going to select a non-believer as a Seeker. Leliana's ideas may be considered by some to be heretical, but there is no denying that she is a believer. Not every character in the game does believe in Andraste and the Maker. Aveline doesn't. Some characters I run will believe, but others will not. I cannot accept a background where that choice is made for me.

Here's a protagonist background that really does allow for complete political and religious freedom as well as unrestricted class and race origins: Defender of Andural's Reach. That's the site the mages have chosen as their new headquarters. Defenders can be any race or any class. They will need warriors and rogues, too, and there's nothing to say that dwarves wouldn't be selected. Since the inhabitants of the stronghold are not religiously affiliated, there is no need for its defenders to be, either. Unlike the proposed Seeker background, it assumes nothing about political or religious preferences. It doesn't even assume that the defender likes mages. Perhaps they were conscripted. Perhaps they're mercenaries. Perhaps they're waiting for their chance to betray the mages the whole time. Anything is possible. As an added bonus, its inhabitants come from the four corners of Thedas, so you'd find a variety of ethnicities and accents. Plus, it's conveniently located in Orlais!

Any takers?

A lot of the most vocal proponents of the Seeker idea are Cassandra fans. I get it. During Origins, there was a great dynamic between Alistair and the Warden. They were working together toward a common goal and cameraderie abounded. If they were lovers, it was even better. I can understand the desire to experience that again with a new title, but Cassandra, if she is even going to be a companion, will not be the only one in the game. And not everyone even likes her.

It isn't that I don't understand the rationale of wanting to play a Seeker. You think it's a great idea. Others don't. You think they're wrong. Others disagree. At the end of the day, I don't see BioWare giving the PC a background that is going to alienate a significant portion of their fan base. They've had a rough year and this is no time to try something with the potential to be so divisive.

For me and for a significant portion of the fan base...

Seeker = NO SALE

End of the line.

Edit: the forum ate my formatting.

Modifié par berelinde, 26 juin 2012 - 09:27 .

[BubbleDncr]

berelinde wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Given the extremely unorthodox methods of the new Divine as per Asunder, it isn't set in stone that any Seekers she picks would be "devout" Andrastians, but that in large part depends on one's definition.  Leliana, for example, believes very strongly in Andraste and the Maker, but by official Chantry doctrines, she's not devout at all, but a heretic.  There actually is a fair amount of leeway for imagining the sort of character that Divine Justinia V would hand pick as a trusted Seeker.

Regardless of the degree of orthodoxy of the Divine's choices, she is not going to select a non-believer as a Seeker. Leliana's ideas may be considered by some to be heretical, but there is no denying that she is a believer. Not every character in the game does believe in Andraste and the Maker. Aveline doesn't. Some characters I run will believe, but others will not. I cannot accept a background where that choice is made for me.

Here's a protagonist background that really does allow for complete political and religious freedom as well as unrestricted class and race origins: Defender of Andural's Reach. That's the site the mages have chosen as their new headquarters. Defenders can be any race or any class. They will need warriors and rogues, too, and there's nothing to say that dwarves wouldn't be selected. Since the inhabitants of the stronghold are not religiously affiliated, there is no need for its defenders to be, either. Unlike the proposed Seeker background, it assumes nothing about political or religious preferences. It doesn't even assume that the defender likes mages. Perhaps they were conscripted. Perhaps they're mercenaries. Perhaps they're waiting for their chance to betray the mages the whole time. Anything is possible. As an added bonus, its inhabitants come from the four corners of Thedas, so you'd find a variety of ethnicities and accents. Plus, it's conveniently located in Orlais!

Any takers?

A lot of the most vocal proponents of the Seeker idea are Cassandra fans. I get it. During Origins, there was a great dynamic between Alistair and the Warden. They were working together toward a common goal and cameraderie abounded. If they were lovers, it was even better. I can understand the desire to experience that again with a new title, but Cassandra, if she is even going to be a companion, will not be the only one in the game. And not everyone even likes her.

It isn't that I don't understand the rationale of wanting to play a Seeker. You think it's a great idea. Others don't. You think they're wrong. Others disagree. At the end of the day, I don't see BioWare giving the PC a background that is going to alienate a significant portion of their fan base. They've had a rough year and this is no time to try something with the potential to be so divisive.

For me and for a significant portion of the fan base...

Seeker = NO SALE

End of the line.

Edit: the forum ate my formatting.

While it makes sense to you for a defender of Andural's Reach to not be pro-mage, it doesn't make sense to me. Just like it makes sense to me to be to be able to play as a Seeker who ends up going against the Chantry. To each their own.

I'm actually rather indfifferent about playing as a Seeker. I can see the pros and cons, and I won't be disappointed or excited when they finally say if we will or won't. And I would think an even more significant portion of the fan base feels that way, since majority of the people who play the Dragon Age games don't come to these forums and express their opinions on such matter. Which - I could be wrong - probably means they are indifferent and will just be happy when the next game is announced.

Modifié par BubbleDncr, 26 juin 2012 - 10:39 .

[EricHVela]

I want the next Dragon Age to take place in parallel to Dragon Age: Kirkwall instead of after it. I don't want it to be the end of a trilogy as there's far too much of Dragon Age left to explore that cannot be covered in one game (especially on EA's practiced timetables).

I think it would be okay for the protagonist to be a Seeker in such a story.

[berelinde]

BubbleDncr wrote...

While it makes sense to you for a defender of Andural's Reach to not be pro-mage, it doesn't make sense to me. Just like it makes sense to me to be to be able to play as a Seeker who ends up going against the Chantry. To each their own.

It makes sense to you to play a character who declines and violently opposes the requirements that literally define the organization? That makes no sense to me.

Let's try it using a hypothetical example. You will begin the game as a member of the Bestiality Enforcers, an elite organization known for their rather openminded approach to interspecies relationships. No one is telling you that you have to actually practice bestiality. You can privately embrace any inclination or kink you like, but throughout the game world, everyone you meet will identify you as a member of the Bestiality Enforcers regardless of your stance on the matter. Later in the game, you may or may not be given the opportunity to betray the organization, so that should cover those who would rather not participate in something so distasteful.

Yes, of course the example above is ridiculous. No one in their right mind would design a game like that, let alone expect people to buy it. The point is not to sell the idea or even to compare bestiality to support of the chantry. Substitute any other noun you like and it will still read exactly the same. If you force a player to role-play a character who belongs to an organization where the members are identified by a set of beliefs, telling the player that the character doesn't actually have to embrace those beliefs is meaningless. What matters is the ability to choose the beliefs, ideology, sexual orientation, and other personality-defining traits that your character will possess and join an organization or faction that supports those beliefs accordingly.

I'm actually rather indfifferent about playing as a Seeker. I can see the pros and cons, and I won't be disappointed or excited when they finally say if we will or won't. And I would think an even more significant portion of the fan base feels that way, since majority of the people who play the Dragon Age games don't come to these forums and express their opinions on such matter. Which - I could be wrong - probably means they are indifferent and will just be happy when the next game is announced.

That's the thing. Supporters of the idea range from thinking it's kind of cool to indifference. As you say, the majority of potential players will probably be completely indifferent. Those who oppose the idea of having a Seeker protagonist do so with great passion.

Those that are indifferent will buy the game if it features a religiously and politically neutral protagonist as well. Those who oppose the idea will not buy the game no matter how many enticements are offered.

BioWare is pretty good about not limiting players by forcing them to play characters with fixed ideologies or beliefs. I'm hoping this trend continues.

[tishyw]

I was Chantry neutral in DA:O and anti-Chantry in DA2, so I have absolutely no interest in playing a Seeker.
Being forced to play as a religious zelot is not my idea of a good time, I just wouldn't buy the game.

Edit - Having read the article on EuroGamer, I think he's hinting that we'll have either Cassandra or Leliana as companions, not that the PC will be a Seeker.  I can live with that, but Leliana was my least favourite companion in DA:O and usually got left at camp.  She went on about the Maker far to much for my taste.

Here also mentions a Grey Warden companion, which I think will be a popular move.

Here's the quote -

"So, suppose in your party you had a Grey Warden, let's say," said Laidlaw, with a pause and a smile, "and suppose you had a Seeker... You know... A Seeker..."

Modifié par tishyw, 27 juin 2012 - 12:19 .

[berelinde]

tishyw wrote...

Edit - Having read the article on EuroGamer, I think he's hinting that we'll have either Cassandra or Leliana as companions, not that the PC will be a Seeker.  I can live with that, but Leliana was my least favourite companion in DA:O and usually got left at camp.  She went on about the Maker far to much for my taste.

Here also mentions a Grey Warden companion, which I think will be a popular move.

Here's the quote -

"So, suppose in your party you had a Grey Warden, let's say," said Laidlaw, with a pause and a smile, "and suppose you had a Seeker... You know... A Seeker..."

Considering that the concept art displayed at PAX featured a Seeker who looked surprisingly like Cassandra, and considering that fanboys have been screaming for Cassandra since before DA2 came out, I'd put money on her rather than Leliana. Well, that and Leliana's about 90th level by now and has been in 2 games, 1 expansion, 2 DLCs (one devoted entirely to her), *and* a novel. Enough is enough.

In truth, the game is already in production. The plot is outlined and they're starting on the dialogue. This tells me that the protagonist and the companions are already decided and all we're arguing over is whose predictions are closest.

[TEWR]

hussey92 wrote...

It is different. Theres a Mage Templer war going on during DA3 and being a Seeker would put you on the side of the Templers/Chantry.

Not really. Per Asunder, Lord Seeker Lambert and whatever Templars/Seekers joined him are calling for eradicating all Mages.

But not all of the Seekers and Templars joined him. Some of the Seekers are supporting the Divine.

To support Lambert is to support an oppressive regime. To support Justinia is to support the Chantry. But that's only if you profess your support of either. Helping them out =/= support them. It doesn't even mean that you like them.

But by default, you aren't supporting the Templars/Chantry/Seekers. Given the nature of the conflict and the mindset of Justinia V, I can easily see her deciding that she can't pick from "devout Andrastians" if she truly wants to resolve the crises.

And if she's smart and say wants to build up enough forces to be able to take on the New Inquisition, she will seek out the assistance of people that may or may not share her viewpoints.

Say for instance she wants the Dalish to help her and promises to give them their own land (again) and respect their culture. Who would the Dalish be more inclined to listen to? Some human Seeker or an Elven Seeker, possibly one that believes in the Dalish pantheon?

Just as well, who would the Mages be willing to listen to if they don't immediately offer their services to her? A non-Mage Seeker or a Mage Seeker?

If she wants to not be overthrown by Lambert and killed, she will have to recruit people that have different beliefs. She needs to think rationally and intelligently before thinking religiously. And I can easily see Justinia V doing this as part of her reforms to the system.

Being a Seeker doesn't automatically make one pro-Chantry or pro-Templars or pro-anything. You could be forced to be a part of their group and hold a great deal of resentment towards them, but if you were to just leave they'd ruin your life. You could be indifferent to the whole conflict.

So you can either be:

1) Andrastian (convert) that supports either faction.
2) Person of different belief/race that supports a faction because it might benefit your own culture/race
3) Person of different belief/race that is only helping them because they're forcing you.

Helping them achieve their goals doesn't mean you actually support them nor does it make you an immediate believer of the religion.

I'd even add that maybe there should be the option to go rogue and betray the side you first aligned with -- so say if you join Lambert, you can betray him and go rogue. If you joined Cassandra, you can betray her and go rogue -- and just sort of make your way through the rest of the game. Or join the other faction. Sort of a Harrowmont/Bhelen situation.

Hell, this could come at a cost. You might lose a few companions and make them your enemies later on if you decide to betray one group for the other.

There's mountains of potential here for DAIII, and being a Seeker doesn't diminish that if it's done right. Whether Bioware will act on this potential is unknown.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 juin 2012 - 02:32 .

[InfinitePaths]

I'd love to be a seeker with cassandra and Leliana as companions .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Factions could possibly come into play in Dragon Age 3 where the player can CHOOSE to join the seekers. Why are people coming to assumptions based on one person's misquote from an interview we don't even know exists? I for one wouldn't mind playing as the Seekers but I'd rather join the Templar order (I think they've split from the Seekers and The Chantry and now seek to destroy mages utterly) and purge the land of all mages and their pathetic sympathizes once and for all!!!

DEATH TO MAGES WORLD-WIDE. EAT THEM ALL!!!

[Melca36]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Factions could possibly come into play in Dragon Age 3 where the player can CHOOSE to join the seekers. Why are people coming to assumptions based on one person's misquote from an interview we don't even know exists? I for one wouldn't mind playing as the Seekers but I'd rather join the Templar order (I think they've split from the Seekers and The Chantry and now seek to destroy mages utterly) and purge the land of all mages and their pathetic sympathizes once and for all!!!

DEATH TO MAGES WORLD-WIDE. EAT THEM ALL!!!

LOL

Its pretty naive to assume everybody wants all mages dead.

[TEWR]

Melca36 wrote...

Its pretty naive to assume everybody wants all mages dead.

I think he was talking about his own personal playstyle. And if you mean in regards to the split he mentioned, he's not entirely wrong. The ones supporting Lambert are more then likely calling for the execution of all mages.

Not all of the Templars or Seekers are doing that, but I think the ones supporting Lambert certainly are. If not all of them, then the majority of them.

Elton John is dead wrote...

(I think they've split from the Seekers and The Chantry and now seek to destroy mages utterly)

Well, Lord High Seeker Lambert took the Templars and whatever Seekers supported him on his quest to fight the Mages -- declaring the Nevarran Accord null and void in a letter to the Divine -- but it'd be grossly inaccurate to say this is the mindset of every Templar and every Seeker everywhere.

Some Seekers and some Templars will undoubtedly support the Divine because they agree with her ideas and don't hate mages.

Just like you might see some fervent Loyalist Mages on the side of Lambert, to the point where you question the stability of their mind (Kelli in Broken Circle, as an example).

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 28 juin 2012 - 08:58 .

[Melca36]

esper wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

esper wrote...

We know that the current seekers are either pro-templar or pro-chantry (which per da2 is not the same). It is a religious job in all apspect which is for doing thing for the chantry. I do not want to play a character who ever thought joining the seekers was the right thing to do.

I agree.  There is NO WAY I could ever play a Seeker.  I have zero interest in playing religious characters and I can honestly say I would NOT get the game if that was the only choice.

I would get the game, I would give it a chance, but unless that Bioware really surprised me that would likely be my last game in dragon age.
(If for example the Chantry ends with going down because the main character is a seeker, I could get behind it by simple saying that the main character was a villain protagonist and got justice served at last).

Yeah that could work but I would prefer to have a choice....

Mage, Seeker, or Commoner

[Melca36]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...



I think he was talking about his own personal playstyle. And if you mean in regards to the split he mentioned, he's not entirely wrong. The ones supporting Lambert are more then likely calling for the execution of all mages.

Not all of the Templars or Seekers are doing that, but I think the ones supporting Lambert certainly are. If not all of them, then the majority of them.

I think many people forget that many humans trust mages over the typical physicians they have.  Remember that line that woman said about physicians when you're looking for Anders?

I truly think human support for mages would be evenly split.


I think what could happen is there will be word of a massive Qunari invasion, with hundreds of dreadnaughts being sited heading toward them. People will realize that they have to ban together in order to survive.

My other wild theory is some ancient Chantry documents will be discovered and if the world knows about them, it would weaken them.

[Silfren]

esper wrote...

Silfren wrote...

berelinde wrote...

^^ We do know how Seekers are recruited. They are hand-picked by the Divine from among the most capable and devout Andrastians. There is literally no way this would work as a politically or religiously neutral starting point.

Given the extremely unorthodox methods of the new Divine as per Asunder, it isn't set in stone that any Seekers she picks would be "devout" Andrastians, but that in large part depends on one's definition.  Leliana, for example, believes very strongly in Andraste and the Maker, but by official Chantry doctrines, she's not devout at all, but a heretic.  There actually is a fair amount of leeway for imagining the sort of character that Divine Justinia V would hand pick as a trusted Seeker.

Leliana is not a Seeker and working for the Divine means working for the Chantry which I will not accept a character who does.

Also picking a character who are not in some way a devout Andrastian into a religous organiation removes the Divine from the weak leader who can't control her subjects category to the completely idiot category since such a recruitment is asking that person to betray the Divine at some point. The Divine is a personal friend of Leliana, she knows Leliana is devout in her own herectic way, the Divine is absolutely no personal friend of any character I should play.

No, Leliana isn't a Seeker. But she is still highly trusted by the Divine and was hand-picked by her to be her Left Hand.  My point was that the current Divine has been shown as someone who deviates very strongly from Chantry tradition, and that it leaves PLENTY of room for interpreting different character types for a Seeker.  I fail to see how the Divine NOT selecting a devout Andrastian inevitably means that betrayal is around the corner.  But I guess I just see plenty of opportunities for a Seeker who is either personally loyal to Justinia regardless of personal beliefs, or someone who is loyal to the Chantry and Justinia by extension simply because Justinia is the head of the Chantry, AND the possibility of playing someone who has been working toward her own agenda and does plan to betray Justinia after all...OR a person who starts out loyal to Justinia and/or the Chantry but changes their mind over time.

There are any number of permutations of character for a Seeker character and this idea that there is only one plausible background for a Seeker, especially given what we know of the Divine...that's nothing but a failure of imagination on the part of the player.