46 réponses à ce sujet

[AmstradHero]

Thanks for the interesting replies all! That's a really wide spread of responses.

It's curious, as personally,, I loved reading about areas, at least where it was done from a historical perspective, either a description of particular events at the location or covering "how it got here". That said, I do understand people want to experience an area rather than reading about it.

I do agree that the meta-knowledge that was sometimes provided by DA:O and DA2 codex entries was a little undesirable. I'll be attempting to avoid that.

[AmstradHero]

Updated the original post to ask people a follow up question:

What would make you more interested in reading codex entries?

i.e. How could they be written/re-written to make them more interesting?

e.g. For those who find character codex entries have too much meta information, how would you rewrite them?
If you don't read area entries because you want to experience an area, would reading say a journal entry from someone describing their experience or passage through an area be more palatable?

[Firky]

Characters and letters, for me. (It's more creative and more interesting, IMO.)

With the "someone's experience" approach, I really like that. It's really important that who ever is speaking, though, is a clearly defined character, I reckon. Not necessarily that they have to be in the game, but like Brother Genitivi's codex entries. In one, he likened the Tranquil to tables. I think that's brill. (Made me shake my fist at him.)

[SphereofSilence]

The best 'codexes' I've seen is a collection of Game of Thrones videos found here, which I hope DA franchise can apply:

History and Lore of Robert's Rebellion
History and Lore Valyria and the Dragons
House Stark
House Targaryen
House Baratheon
House Arryn
...and many more...

Not only are they fully voiced by appropriate characters that lend the bit of extra character and prejudice that make the subject matter all the more compelling, they are also complemented with beautiful visuals.

[DahliaLynn]

SphereofSilence wrote...

The best 'codexes' I've seen is a collection of Game of Thrones videos found here, which I hope DA franchise can apply:

History and Lore of Robert's Rebellion
History and Lore Valyria and the Dragons
House Stark
House Targaryen
House Baratheon
House Arryn
...and many more...

Not only are they fully voiced by appropriate characters that lend the bit of extra character and prejudice that make the subject matter all the more compelling, they are also complemented with beautiful visuals.

Love this concept. Dragon Age being a more visual and cinematic game, I can certainly appreciate this type of codex delivery. While I enjoy reading in general, I find myself passing them by not for lack of interest, but because it interrupts the gameplay flow -sometimes a bit too much.

Finding a  book to read found as an integrated quest item, while having most history/area codices in the above format would make for a fine balance in my opinion. Aside from this, item descriptions and character backgrounds would be fine in the current DA style. 

I also agree with Firky in that character letters and experiences are also a great way to learn about the lore, though, if these were private I'd find it hard to explain how I came about them. Brother Genetivi was indeed a great example of this as Firky mentioned

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 23 juin 2012 - 01:40 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

It depends on what my character's doing in the game at the time I get the Codex entry, and how I am personally feeling at that moment. I generally don't read codices as soon as I get them, unless I am in a position where I (or my character) am actively seeking information.

For instance, if I'm in a library and deliberately picking up books, I'll tend to read them. If I'm in the Dalish encampment and wanting to learn about the Creators, I'll read those entries too.

But if I'm fresh out of a battle and the game's pacing is such that it makes no sense to slow down to receive an infodump, I'll ignore a codex entry--at least for that moment. Or if I'm getting into a particular quest and am impatient to progress it, I might not want to slow down to read a swath of text.

Finally, if I particularly like a game and its setting, I'll go back to read all the codices after I've finished playing it. And the item descriptions. And anything else

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Oh, and as for improvements...maybe if they were compiled into The Hitchiker's Guide to Thedas and voiced by Peter Jones?

[Brockololly]

SphereofSilence wrote...

The best 'codexes' I've seen is a collection of Game of Thrones videos found here, which I hope DA franchise can apply:

History and Lore of Robert's Rebellion
History and Lore Valyria and the Dragons
House Stark
House Targaryen
House Baratheon
House Arryn
...and many more...

Not only are they fully voiced by appropriate characters that lend the bit of extra character and prejudice that make the subject matter all the more compelling, they are also complemented with beautiful visuals.

Those are fantastic because they present common events from the various points of view and you can see how that bias affects perception of the events from the different characters.


As far as codex entries for DA though, going the Game of Thrones route like that would likely be way too costly. I would like to see the actual interface for the codex a bit more grounded in game. Like having it look like an actual book or something like how Skyrim handled books. Toss in some illustrations like the Witcher does with the codex.

And have more codex entries that are from certain points of view- whether thats like Skyrim where you just find books all around written by different people or if its like The Witcher 2, where you have all codex/journal entries written from the point of view of Dandelion.


So, it would be cool if DA3 had a system where it was similar to Skyrim with books and scrolls lying around the world and you could physically pick them up and read them on the spot. If not, then it goes into your own codex/journal, which actually looks like a real book/journal (you can turn pages and so forth). Maybe if you're a Seeker PC, then its something like that book Cassandra had.  Make it easy to navigate and sort entries, make it easy to mark certain ones as read or not read, and maybe let the player type in notes of their own. Toss in illustrations in it too and drawn out maps and notes too.

Or maybe in addition to your codex and worldmap, you could have a timeline of the DA world which gets filled in with lore tidbits as you collect codex entries.

I just hope BioWare doesn't neglect the menus/UI/codex/maps like I felt they did with DA2. Thats a big part of any RPG and deserves as much attention as anything else.

Modifié par Brockololly, 23 juin 2012 - 03:14 .

[Scarlet Rabbi]

Hell yes I read codex entries!

Though I'll admit DA2's UI made it a challenge sometimes.

[Corker]

I read them, generally as soon as I get them. Sometimes the knowledge is 'meta,' but I find that often it's something my character should already, as a citizen of the world, know.

I love that they already come in a variety of types and tones, from Brother Genetivi's wry commentary on Thedas to Paragon Seuss's literary inventions to the oddly lyrical "Death of a Templar" in Haven. The hysterical description of sausage making (Correspondus Interruptus quest), the eerie Scrolls of Banastor, the snips of legends like the Black Fox... love 'em all, wouldn't change 'em.

[iPoohCupCakez]

No. I have Dragon Age wiki for that.

[Tatinger]

AmstradHero wrote...

Updated the original post to ask people a follow up question:

What would make you more interested in reading codex entries?

i.e. How could they be written/re-written to make them more interesting?

e.g. For those who find character codex entries have too much meta information, how would you rewrite them?
If you don't read area entries because you want to experience an area, would reading say a journal entry from someone describing their experience or passage through an area be more palatable?

Embed clues/hidden quests/puzzles in the enteries.  An example of this might be that by gathering a series of fragments that are linked to the information contained in other codex notes, the player is able to collect  unlockable in-game rewards.  You have to make it challenging, though: a thorough knowledge of Dragon Age geology or history (mentioned in the codex enteries) to get to a specific location, say, along with the use of a specific item, to gain access to an unlockable something or other that, in turn, might unlock other codex enteries that lead to even more 'easter eggs' (items, new characters, story parts, etc.) in a kind of game-long scavenger hunt, is the way I'd go.

The trick is not to make it easy, though.  To get those rewards the player must have a pretty good understanding of what's in the codex and be able to problem solve the clues by piecing together the bits of information that S/he has learned.  In other words, they'd have to think about what they've just read (and not skim past it) in order to get the bonus item.

*Shrugs*

That's how I'd get people to pay attention to what's in the codex, anyways.

Modifié par Tatinger, 23 juin 2012 - 05:12 .

[Fallstar]

I like reading the codex entries. At the end of the game I go back and have a read through any for which I was too engaged with the story to read at the time. I also like how the codex entries for characters develop as you learn more about the character or go through key character development points.

Codex entries like the 'Enigma of Kirkwall' in DA2, where you have to build them up throughout the entire game, are great. Especially when they are somewhat cryptic, and it only becomes clear(er) once you've found all of the pieces - something the Unbound entry from Origins did excellently.

I suggested that we get a real physical copy of the codex in the collector's edition for DA3. I reckon that'd be a nice piece of memorabilia to have for the game.

Finally wanted to say that the codex, and journal in general, in Origins felt like it had been painstakingly crafted. It was a really nice UI to look at and use. I know that DA2 was going for the whole clean Assasin's creed type feeling with the UIs, but it ended up coming off as just feeling bland. Adding some details like making the journal look like an actual book, rather than just another menu screen, would go some way to making reading the journal a more pleasant experience, especially as you do spend a fair amount of time in the journal reading codex entries, quest descriptions, checking party statistics etc.

Modifié par DuskWarden, 23 juin 2012 - 05:26 .

[Tatinger]

DuskWarden wrote...
Adding some details like making the journal look like an actual book...

I actually also advocate that for the Dialogue Wheel, as well (make it look more Medieval-y than High-Tech-y).  A small thing, admittedly, but like you said it would be a nice esthetic touch to help with the emersion factor.

Modifié par Tatinger, 23 juin 2012 - 05:52 .

[Elvis_Mazur]

My suggestion for any other Dragon Age or Mass Effect game that contains codex entries that already exist on older games is to specify which ones are new and which ones are old so that I can know what to read and what to avoid.

I like to read more about the Characters than History, Culture, etc.

[Brockololly]

PetrySilva wrote...

My suggestion for any other Dragon Age or Mass Effect game that contains codex entries that already exist on older games is to specify which ones are new and which ones are old so that I can know what to read and what to avoid.

I like to read more about the Characters than History, Culture, etc.

Thats a good point too.

I'll generally read all of them but in DA2 for instance, you end up thinking "Wait, didn't I read this already in Origins?" And then it feels like a bit of a letdown when you realized there weren't very many truly new codex entries.

[Uccio]

I do. DAO had the best style.

[Tryynity]

Yes I do read codex entries - but not religiously. Usually on the 2nd/3rd playthrough after learning the game fundamentals I begin to slow it down and roleplay through it.

I have to say I rather like finding maps, recipes, scrolls, letters, books or perhaps a carved message on a wall/floor, (camoflaged codexs) and reading those - as my character would find them within their world.

[Dr. Doctor]

SphereofSilence wrote...

The best 'codexes' I've seen is a collection of Game of Thrones videos found here, which I hope DA franchise can apply:

History and Lore of Robert's Rebellion
History and Lore Valyria and the Dragons
House Stark
House Targaryen
House Baratheon
House Arryn
...and many more...

Not only are they fully voiced by appropriate characters that lend the bit of extra character and prejudice that make the subject matter all the more compelling, they are also complemented with beautiful visuals.

I really liked those videos. Maybe DA3 could take a page out of the Mass Effect codex and have major entries like major characters, races, locations, etc be like those videos while keeping minor entries similar to what we've seen in past games.

[Yara C.]

As one who mentioned lower interest regarding codex entries on areas:

AmstradHero wrote... 

 I loved reading about areas, at least where it was done from a historical perspective, either a description of particular events at the location or covering "how it got here". That said, I do understand people want to experience an area rather than reading about it.

That makes a huge difference and would add the spice for me. ( I loved some of Brother Genitivi´s travel descriptions)

AmstradHero wrote...

e.g. For those who find character codex entries have too much meta information, how would you rewrite them?

More fragmented. It should be plausible. Some information on public figures (heros, leaders...) by books, poems, statues, graffiti, order documents etc. On private figures it will be more difficult. Letters? In case of team members hardly to imagine. (He, why you are snooping in my things?)
Anyway I would be prefer if there would be more silent updates of the journal. No pop up e.g. in case you just have given the right gift...approval 10 points...Pop up:codex updated..."npc likes ..."

Modifié par Yara Cousland, 25 juin 2012 - 07:17 .

[Arthur Cousland]

AmstradHero wrote...

Updated the original post to ask people a follow up question:

What would make you more interested in reading codex entries?

i.e. How could they be written/re-written to make them more interesting?

e.g. For those who find character codex entries have too much meta information, how would you rewrite them?
If you don't read area entries because you want to experience an area, would reading say a journal entry from someone describing their experience or passage through an area be more palatable?

Just make them interesting and not just some shopping list, found on the ground of a shop (Redcliffe Village).

I mentioned in a previous post, that I'd like to see more codex entries, such as the Summoning Science entry, which was required to complete that side quest in Origins.  Not every codex entry needs to be like that, but I would like one or two in each game.  I could picture my warden walking around in the circle tower library, with that book open, as he was searching for the other books/items.

After repeated playthroughs, I'll remember what is said in many of the codex entries, and so I won't bother reading them again.  Perhaps, since Bioware are looking at Skyrim, DA3 could have actual books that the player could collect, read, and even store on an interactive book shelf?