88 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

We can only hope they're doomed.

[Fast Jimmy]

Seboist wrote...

We can only hope they're doomed.

Why say this?

I am no fan of EA and agree they are in financial trouble right now. But unless there is a angel publisher is in the wings already to buy out Bioware (which I doubt), then it will spell ruin for most of the IPs we love (or at least I assume people here like them - we are on a Bioware forum, after all). 

Id hole that EA realizes that the models they are pursuing are very off putting to traditional gamers, and will do a drastic 180 with almost everything they do... but if they go bankrupt this year, that means restructuring, which translates to shutting down unprofitable divisions and hacking up IPs and selling them to the highest bidder. Neither sounds good, since Bioware has lost a significant chunk of EA's money with TOR and ME3's cost in consumer confidence. 

[Seboist]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Seboist wrote...

We can only hope they're doomed.

Why say this?

I am no fan of EA and agree they are in financial trouble right now. But unless there is a angel publisher is in the wings already to buy out Bioware (which I doubt), then it will spell ruin for most of the IPs we love (or at least I assume people here like them - we are on a Bioware forum, after all). 

Id hole that EA realizes that the models they are pursuing are very off putting to traditional gamers, and will do a drastic 180 with almost everything they do... but if they go bankrupt this year, that means restructuring, which translates to shutting down unprofitable divisions and hacking up IPs and selling them to the highest bidder. Neither sounds good, since Bioware has lost a significant chunk of EA's money with TOR and ME3's cost in consumer confidence. 

"Bioware" doesn't exist anymore, it's an EA brand and nothing else. Besides, I don't care for any of EA's IPs anymore.

I have my Ys, Witcher,Persona,Blazblue,etc so I'm good.

[Darth Malice113]

JasonRocker wrote...

I made a thread not too long ago about EA. I was not bashing the company in itself. Rather then showing a pattern. I was warned by a mod (NinjaStan) and told to be "Care full with my tone" I am rather surprised that this one has not been locked yet since it debates about the "future of EA" and unless it's met with rose petals and shouts that it will be great. It is normally, locked.

I take a bit of issue saying gamers are short sighed. Gamers know exactly what they want and if they are not getting it they generally look around the internet for articles that do re-confirm or validate what they already feel.

For example. Some generally felt that ME3 ending was far from perfect. A news article did not influence our thought. We felt that way at the ending. We are not saying it's not a great game only that we don't depend what we say based on news article, suggestions that we do simply do not make that much sense.

I'm devoted to Bioware. Look at all the games registered on my account. Yet I feel that I should be able to voice what I feel generally about a company because they "Vaule Feedback" and shouldn't be treated as "We simply do not understand" sort of feeling.

Simply put. I doubt that TOR turned out to be the cow they could milk from like Warcraft is. Not saying the story telling isn't compelling but as a MMO it fails to give the success that other MMO's have enjoyed.

I saw that thread you created. Compared to some of the other stuff I've seen on here your OP was relatively mild.

The Mod basically accused you of outright bashing, which is odd. I've seen plenty of threads and OP's that say things like "Screw you Bioware" or EA, and that is most certainly bashing.

Funny thing is I've been seeing forum members bash other forum members(a site rules violation) and yet those posters are still around to post.

Seems "bashing"  has a rather loose definition, and I find that troubleling.


As for my feelings on this thread:  What the OP brings up is both interesting and troubleling. But making predictions on EAs success or failure might be out of our reach. Because we certainly don't know all we need to know to make such predictions.  I don't even think EA can make those predictions, that's just the nature of trying to predict the future.

[Hvlukas]

Doomed? Who knows?

I really, really doubt it though.

Is Facebook doomed? Was Apple doomed after Job died and their stock fell? Things shift back and forth, companies respond to the shifts, some die out and others find new ways.

The only thing happening right now seems to be a shift in EA's image among the League of Really True Gaming Fans ™. My mum plays the Sims 3 and doesn't give a hoot who or what EA is doing. And she's part of the 68% of the paying gamers out there right now.

[The Jackal]

Darth Malice113 wrote...

JasonRocker wrote...

I made a thread not too long ago about EA. I was not bashing the company in itself. Rather then showing a pattern. I was warned by a mod (NinjaStan) and told to be "Care full with my tone" I am rather surprised that this one has not been locked yet since it debates about the "future of EA" and unless it's met with rose petals and shouts that it will be great. It is normally, locked.

I take a bit of issue saying gamers are short sighed. Gamers know exactly what they want and if they are not getting it they generally look around the internet for articles that do re-confirm or validate what they already feel.

For example. Some generally felt that ME3 ending was far from perfect. A news article did not influence our thought. We felt that way at the ending. We are not saying it's not a great game only that we don't depend what we say based on news article, suggestions that we do simply do not make that much sense.

I'm devoted to Bioware. Look at all the games registered on my account. Yet I feel that I should be able to voice what I feel generally about a company because they "Vaule Feedback" and shouldn't be treated as "We simply do not understand" sort of feeling.

Simply put. I doubt that TOR turned out to be the cow they could milk from like Warcraft is. Not saying the story telling isn't compelling but as a MMO it fails to give the success that other MMO's have enjoyed.

I saw that thread you created. Compared to some of the other stuff I've seen on here your OP was relatively mild.

The Mod basically accused you of outright bashing, which is odd. I've seen plenty of threads and OP's that say things like "Screw you Bioware" or EA, and that is most certainly bashing.

Funny thing is I've been seeing forum members bash other forum members(a site rules violation) and yet those posters are still around to post.

Seems "bashing"  has a rather loose definition, and I find that troubleling.


As for my feelings on this thread:  What the OP brings up is both interesting and troubleling. But making predictions on EAs success or failure might be out of our reach. Because we certainly don't know all we need to know to make such predictions.  I don't even think EA can make those predictions, that's just the nature of trying to predict the future.

Let's be honest with each other.  My thread was not bashing. I listed problems with M3(Ending) TOR(subs) and I asked why is EA slipping that was the title of my thread. Usually I start thread that praise the company. Yet I saw no need to pat it on the back for the mistakes it has been having as of late. In Some eyes and this is with deep regert people's thread's are closed and censored.

In orgins. I thought the game play was compelling, interesting and interactive. How did they go from "Game of The Year Awards" to this? I want the bioware that brought us "Dragon Age Orgins and orginal Knights of Old Republic" I do not enjoy when a game doesn't go well. Nor as some might suggest do we base our entire review on a single article..

I just really hope D3 is where it needs to be.

[Fast Jimmy]

Hvlukas wrote...

The only thing happening right now seems to be a shift in EA's image among the League of Really True Gaming Fans ™. My mum plays the Sims 3 and doesn't give a hoot who or what EA is doing. And she's part of the 68% of the paying gamers out there right now.

True... but just ask Harmonix how the rug can slip out from under earth you when you try and cater to the non-gaming gamer. 

No disrespect to your mother of course, but you can't count on non-gamers to buy your games. 

Sierra saw how many people used to play minesweeper and solitaire on their computer who weren't normal 'gamers' and built the whole suite of Hoyle computer games to accommodate and broaden these types of players... only to go bankrupt, because no one played (let alone bought) anything beyond minesweeper or solitaire. The same could be said of the Wik games, or Kinnect. Yes, the systems and the starting showcase of games sold well... but any third-party developer's games are practically wasted money, for both the studio and the consumer. 

Gamers can be counted on to continually buy games. They like gaming. Consumers who treat gaming like a fad are likely to drop interest in it just as quickly. Yet that seems to be what many publishers, including EA, are doing. 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 22 juin 2012 - 06:14 .

[Hvlukas]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

True... but just ask Harmonix how the rug can slip out from under earth you when you try and cater to the non-gaming gamer. 

No disrespect to your mother of course, but you can't count on non-gamers to buy your games. 

Nah, I take no offence. But I think if we look at the various data available, we'll find that the "fanbase" or "the gamers" as we think  we know them, aren't really neccesarily what companies see. Teens and people in their 20's aren't a particularly tempting audience, since they tend to not pay (according to data) while the 35 and over is the main crowd with the big money. Regardless of how and why, my main point is just that it isn't so clear, if you go into the data available, and it becomes even more fuzzy if we had to guess how specifically EA's brand (and someone like Bioware's) sell to who and what demographic. Articles alone just doesn't tell the whole story.

To me, it seems EA has more of an image problem, than anything else. EA seems to be to the 2010's what the "Record company" was in the 2000's, only they are still making good money.

[Dexter111]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Companies generally have a broader view of things and plan their strategies accordingly. The individual consumer/gamer is extremely short-sighted, allowing each news article and discussion to inform their predictions about the company's future. If an article is negative, then an individual will tend to see the company's eventual failure as guaranteed. If an article is positive, the individual will tend to see the company's future success as assured.

Regardless of one's personal opinion about a company, it will not fail or succeed based on a single article or analysis, nor can one will a company into eventual success or failure.

How did that work out for you with Dragon Age 2 turning to mush and not selling at all even getting its expansion canned: http://www.gamebansh...rtunitiesq.html
With the Ultimate Edition cancelled because of "lack of retailer interest": http://www.gamebansh...isinterest.html
The Old Republic managing to half EAs market worth over the last year and turning Free2Play soon and the Mass Effect franchise largely turning to poo too (although you managed to keep the sales up, with it being the ending of the Trilogy and all that, but you'll see the impact on the next cash-in project in the Mass Effect universe)?

Not to forget how they fired 200 people from mostly the SWTOR team not too long ago: https://twitter.com/...007250765520898 and rationalized your own workplace away, yet in an amazingly pathetic display of Stockholm syndrome you're doing "volunteer work" for the company that fired your ass in the belief that they have some greater "master plan" and getting fired was apparently mostly your fault as you write because of a lack of "motivation", I'd rather guess you're in denial now than rather than then...: http://worstninjaeve...o-ware-yay.html

So I slogged through the same position and job that I'd done for 11 years,
and management noticed I didn't seem motivated anymore and wasn't
working to the best of my ability. After a whole bunch of discussion, I
kind of had to agree with them. They worked up a solution that was best
for all involved--me, the department, and the company--and I was able to
leave on good terms. Everyone's happy.

Oh, I didn't feel that way when I got called into the first of several very
important meetings. I was devastated. I thought I'd be there forever. I
didn't know what I'd be doing as an old man at BioWare, but it probably
wasn't going to be QA, and that was kinda part of the problem. If I
wasn't happy, I should have talked to my department head, HR, whoever,
to make a plan to move to a different department or do some different
work. But I was in denial for at least two years, and it would have
taken a lot more than "hey, how's it going?" to get stubborn ol' me to
admit that things weren't going great.

funsies...

People already knew where this is going the moment they saw the news, god knows there were enough of these threads you probably even closed yourself, I could even find my Post if you didn't take your old forums down a while ago:
http://web.archive.o...590172&forum=22
http://web.archive.o...590216&forum=22
http://web.archive.o...590591&forum=22
http://web.archive.o...m.html?forum=22

We'll be here to tell you how terribly long-sighted your bosses and EA were 3-4 further years from now when BioWare doesn't even exist in name anymore, is just another corpse in the big pile of ex-developers and most of your friends also lost their jobs, it's just too bad you won't be here anymore to enjoy it...

[inappropriate image removed]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 22 juin 2012 - 07:36 .

[termokanden]

Nobody here knows if EA is "doomed" or not. But a company doesn't necessarily die just because you can make depressing graphs about its stock.

Hvlukas wrote...

Is Facebook doomed?

I don't know, but I really hope so!

Modifié par termokanden, 22 juin 2012 - 07:22 .

[Ninja Stan]

Ninja Stan wrote...

How did that work out for you with Dragon Age 2 turning to mush and not selling at all even getting its expansion canned: http://www.gamebansh...rtunitiesq.html

DA2 sold well. Its expansion was cancelled for, as even the link to article says, "other DA opportunities." As a corporation, EA is much, much larger than DA, much larger even than BioWare Edmonton or the entire BioWare label. Even if it were true that Dragon Age 2 "turned to much" and "didn't sell at all," EA has many other studios and games in development and on sale. Company stocks aren't affected that much by the sales of one product in one line of one studio within one division. Shareholders aren't looking at individual BioWare Edmonton game releases and sales when deciding whether to buy or sell EA stock.

NBC isn't going to tank just because one of their pilots didn't make it to series, or that so many of their pilot concepts failed to even get developed. As a network, NBC is working on new concepts and series all the time, and have everything from tried and true series to mid-carders to new hopefuls. Like other media companies, NBC has not put all their hopes and money into just one project. Don't you think a large multi-studio publisher like EA would have the same kind of risk management?

With the Ultimate Edition cancelled because of "lack of retailer interest": http://www.gamebansh...isinterest.html
The Old Republic managing to half EAs market worth over the last year and turning Free2Play soon and the Mass Effect franchise largely turning to poo too (although you managed to keep the sales up, with it being the ending of the Trilogy and all that, but you'll see the impact on the next cash-in project in the Mass Effect universe)?

This is more an indication of your hate for EA than anything. The Old Republic is still selling, and the game is still being updated, and people are still playing and subscribing. Even if it does tank, it's not going to take all of EA with it. Again, EA will take a longer view of the game's performance and potential, and not react so negatively to one article or analysis, unlike some of the community members we have.

Not to forget how they fired 200 people from mostly the SWTOR team not too long ago: https://twitter.com/...007250765520898 and rationalized your own workplace away, yet in an amazingly pathetic display of Stockholm syndrome you're doing "volunteer work" for the company that fired your ass in the belief that they have some greater "master plan" and getting fired was apparently mostly your fault as you write because of a lack of "motivation", I'd rather guess you're in denial now than rather than then...: http://worstninjaeve...o-ware-yay.html

Yup, insults and more hyperbolic language will definitely encourage me to both listen to your arguments and want to agree with you. Debating: you're doing it wrong.

I don't know that EA has a "master plan" but they do have a plan that spans more time and requires more thought than "I've read a news article. PANIC!" Have you even worked for a corporation? The admin side of chain stores? Management or head office? Companies do way more planning than we give them credit for. They have to. They're dealing with millions of dollars, perhaps hundreds of employee futures, and dozens of departments, not to mention all that paperwork! Hell, I run an annual sci-fi festival and a semi-professional singing group and even those require a lot of planning. I was also working for BioWare for 11 year and saw what kind of planning was required.

We'll be here to tell you how terribly long-sighted your bosses and EA were 3-4 further years from now when BioWare doesn't even exist in name anymore, is just another corpse in the big pile of ex-developers and most of your friends also lost their jobs, it's just too bad you won't be here anymore to enjoy it...

Of course you will. Haters will continue to hate, because eventually, something they say will be true and they'll want to be there to rub it in our faces. Never mind that until that happens, all you're doing is spouting a number of vague predictions like Sylvia Browne and Nostradamus.

Keep in mind that, as a longtime Moderator of the BioWAre online community, I have seen haters come in to "predict" the company's downfall. I've seen it on every project since Neverwinter Nights. BioWare was going to fail because and NWN wasn't going to sell anything because NWN wasn't AD&D rules. Guess what, it's now one of the more popular and beloved BioWare games.

KotOR was going to kill the company and not going to sell because it was developed for console. It was also an action RPG, which, according to the haters, no one wanted to play and no one would accept it from BioWare. Guess what, KotOR is now considered not only one of BioWare's best games, but perhaps one of the best STar WArs games.

Jade Empire was going to fail and be BioWare's downfall because it was an original IP, a tremendous risk for the company. It sold well, not stellar, but well. These days, while the game isn't remembered by as many people as KotOR is, you can still see calls for a Jade Empire 2.

Mass Effect was going to fail because it went more into the action and shooter genres. Dragon Age Origins was long thought to be vapourware. Dragon Age 2 was supposed to tank BioWare as well. And so were the Mass Effect 3 endings. And ME3 multiplayer. And any kind of marketing, PR, or communication BioWare does is supposed to drive all the fans away. The acquisition of BioWare by EA was supposed to be the death knell for BioWare as a company too.

Instead, the Mass Effect trilogy has sold amazingly well and ME3 multiplayer has, I'm sure, exceeded BioWare's and EA's initial predictions of popularity and sales. Dragon Age Origins has become the RPG fan's modern classic. And after 4 years as an EA studio, BioWare is still around and still going strong. Heck, EA named an entire label after the company!

And all of that is just BioWare, never mind EA. Sure, you can look at the Westwoods, the Bullfrogs and Origin Systems, but then you also have to look at the EA Canadas and EA Tiburons, both of which were originally acquisitions.

If EA is going to fail, it's going to be because of bad decisions that affect the entire company, such as frittering away profitable licenses, failing to take advantage of the new digital marketplace and social gaming, or making things so difficult for its studios that they can't make games effectively anymore. It may also fail if many of their games from many of their studios fail to sell well.

If you actually want to discuss this, then cut out the hate rhetoric and use your brain meats to debate. If all you're going to do is hate, insult, and merely parrot mindless internet statements, then you'll likely discover just how much we try to discourage that sort of thing around here.

Thank you.

[Dexter111]

Ninja Stan wrote...
DA2 sold well. Its expansion was cancelled for, as even the link to article says, "other DA opportunities." As a corporation, EA is much, much larger than DA, much larger even than BioWare Edmonton or the entire BioWare label. Even if it were true that Dragon Age 2 "turned to much" and "didn't sell at all," EA has many other studios and games in development and on sale. Company stocks aren't affected that much by the sales of one product in one line of one studio within one division. Shareholders aren't looking at individual BioWare Edmonton game releases and sales when deciding whether to buy or sell EA stock.

It certainly didn't sell to expectation, and leaving aside the "corporate line" you don't just cancel an expansion to a franchise that is doing well and where money can be made from, as you rightly put it Dragon Age: Origins was one of your best selling games, selling somewhat around 4 million copies while Dragon Age 2 barely broke 1 million with the help of adding Mass Effect 2 to the package. I'm sure that's an "amazing" number, considering that they expect 5 million on Dead Space 3 (and will be utterly disappointed yet again)

The people working on the expansion also were transferred to work on Dragon Age 3, from there being at least partly further transferred to work on The Old Republic and save that since it was considered more important: http://www.develop-o...loaned-to-SWTOR , the flagship of Bioware (presumably some even being laid off in the aftermath). I don't think many people have much confidence in Dragon Age 3 at this point, especially after what happened to the second part and ToR and the on-and-off statements about its continued development.

Ninja Stan wrote...
This is more an indication of your hate for EA than anything. The Old Republic is still selling, and the game is still being updated, and people are still playing and subscribing. Even if it does tank, it's not going to take all of EA with it. Again, EA will take a longer view of the game's performance and potential, and not react so negatively to one article or analysis, unlike some of the community members we have.

You know exactly EA mainly acquired BioWare because of The Old Republic in the first place, they are trying to replicate the success they had with Ultima Online (on a higher scale), giving birth to modern MMOs and were eagerly eyeing the safe monthly profits of World of Warcraft for years now, trying time and time again to match that and failing... The Sims Online, Warhammer Online (they bought Mythic because of that one - now they're merged with BioWare...), now The Old Republic and The Secret World, Need for Speed World (not to include all the early canned projects/experimentations like Earth & Beyond, Privateer Online, Ultima Online 2, Wing Commander Online, Ultima X, Motor City Online, Majestic, BattleTech 3025 - there's an entire graveyard full of MMOs out there), it's got to be frustrating.

Pandemic was just an unfortunate casualty. They put their entire financial and promotional backing and effort behind The Old Republic to "get it right" this time, and it utterly failed their expectations, I'm sure not even the most dismal plans in their risk management were expecting it to go "Free-to-Play" this soon. They were hoping for numbers of above 3 million subscribers by now, yet it didn't even break the oft quoted 1.7 million at any time: http://files.shareho..._Transcript.pdf

Star Wars, this is an area that I think has got a lot of people anxious. I've heard from investors today saying that
we must have 800,000 subscribers. I heard 600,000 yesterday. So what I think a lot of people have
misunderstood is we said we had 1.7 million subscribers on the last call, which was about a month ago. What that
was about was the fact that only about - just about half that number had triggered through their 30-day point and
become active subscribers, our definition of recurring subscribers.
We had about half that total still in the 30-day trial period, but they're subscribers because that first month is
including with a package good. What I said a month ago was, just over half. I can now confirm for you today that
the vast majority of the 1.7 is now triggered through that point and they're recurring subscribers.
[...]
I am not giving you my fiscal 2013 guidance, but it is very clear on the surface that some of the craziness that was
out there in terms of misunderstanding [ph] this is that I can (10:04) clear up today. It's a very strong entry. We
still have a lot of future in front of us. We're two months into the launch, a lot more to go, but 1.7 million, vast
majority now, are recurring subscribers.

And for the 1.3 million to make the Quarterly Report look at least not as bleak as it would have, almost everyone playing the game for more than a few weeks got a free month: http://kotaku.com/59...aluable-players

Ray didn't look too enthusiastic at this year's E3 either, since he knows this was the project that was either going to "make" or "break" Bioware: and considering the Layoffs and other recent events we know how that went.

I don't know that EA has a "master plan" but they do have a plan that spans more time and requires more thought than "I've read a news article. PANIC!" Have you even worked for a corporation? The admin side of chain stores? Management or head office? Companies do way more planning than we give them credit for. They have to. They're dealing with millions of dollars, perhaps hundreds of employee futures, and dozens of departments, not to mention all that paperwork!

Yep, and sometimes those carefully laid out plans fail, which certainly seems to be the case with EA at the moment. They won't go under from this, since they have large enough cash reserves to tide it over and the "Next Gen" of consoles including their "cross platform" and social strategy including micro transactions up the wazoo and the "Free to Play" horn they're trumpeting will either make or break them, but if you think this isn't going to hurt BioWare even more than it did already you're delusional.

Of course you will. Haters will continue to hate, because eventually, something they say will be true and they'll want to be there to rub it in our faces. Never mind that until that happens, all you're doing is spouting a number of vague predictions like Sylvia Browne and Nostradamus.

Keep in mind that, as a longtime Moderator of the BioWAre online community, I have seen haters come in to "predict" the company's downfall. I've seen it on every project since Neverwinter Nights. BioWare was going to fail because and NWN wasn't going to sell anything because NWN wasn't AD&D rules. Guess what, it's now one of the more popular and beloved BioWare games.

KotOR was going to kill the company and not going to sell because it was developed for console. It was also an action RPG, which, according to the haters, no one wanted to play and no one would accept it from BioWare. Guess what, KotOR is now considered not only one of BioWare's best games, but perhaps one of the best STar WArs games.

Jade Empire was going to fail and be BioWare's downfall because it was an original IP, a tremendous risk for the company. It sold well, not stellar, but well. These days, while the game isn't remembered by as many people as KotOR is, you can still see calls for a Jade Empire 2.

Mass Effect was going to fail because it went more into the action and shooter genres. Dragon Age Origins was long thought to be vapourware. Dragon Age 2 was supposed to tank BioWare as well. And so were the Mass Effect 3 endings. And ME3 multiplayer. And any kind of marketing, PR, or communication BioWare does is supposed to drive all the fans away. The acquisition of BioWare by EA was supposed to be the death knell for BioWare as a company too.

Instead, the Mass Effect trilogy has sold amazingly well and ME3 multiplayer has, I'm sure, exceeded BioWare's and EA's initial predictions of popularity and sales. Dragon Age Origins has become the RPG fan's modern classic. And after 4 years as an EA studio, BioWare is still around and still going strong. Heck, EA named an entire label after the company!

And all of that is just BioWare, never mind EA. Sure, you can look at the Westwoods, the Bullfrogs and Origin Systems, but then you also have to look at the EA Canadas and EA Tiburons, both of which were originally acquisitions.

If EA is going to fail, it's going to be because of bad decisions that affect the entire company, such as frittering away profitable licenses, failing to take advantage of the new digital marketplace and social gaming, or making things so difficult for its studios that they can't make games effectively anymore. It may also fail if many of their games from many of their studios fail to sell well.

If you actually want to discuss this, then cut out the hate rhetoric and use your brain meats to debate. If all you're going to do is hate, insult, and merely parrot mindless internet statements, then you'll likely discover just how much we try to discourage that sort of thing around here.

Thank you.

You seem to be confusing "haters" (and minor issues/****ing about things like "rulesets" or "size of breats" or whatever the domestic population often argues about) with "realities" and "market realities", there's only so much bad publicity and press a company can take before it starts going to the bottom line and ignoring the issues trying to tide it over as is customary doesn't seem to work very well anymore. There's only so many failures a company is going to be allowed before it's gutted like all the rest, we all know how that goes: http://www.escapistm...quest-of-Origin
EA doesn't kill quickly, it does it slowly and systematically and out of "business necessity", let me know if you've heard any of the following promises before...

All the games you mention, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect and everything else like Neverwinter Nights and KOTOR were made independently without the corporate influence, market pressure and creative control of EA and only in partnership with the likes of ATARI, Microsoft and LucasArts but not wholly owned. EA came in too late to alter either Mass Effect or Dragon Age: Origins too much creatively. Decisions like the "Origin only" requirement and rather abundant use of "DLC" amongst other sharp breaks in corporate direction (like one to two year turnarounds and focus on multiplayer amongst many others) make the change perfectly clear.

The only project that apparently wasn't creatively a sequel (I highly doubt EA is going to allow BioWare to work on a new IP at this point, they'll just see how far the Mass Effect/Dragon Age/KOTOR train ride goes and then it's bye bye) got canned shortly after EA acquired you and people like Trent Oster and : http://www.trentoster.com/?page_id=20 and Brent Knowles who worked on it left Edmonton: http://blog.brentkno...08-summer-2009/

Bioware, Edmonton, Canada.
Executive Producer 2007-June 2009
Unannounced Project
• Created a new Intellectual Property
• Assembled an innovative new business model for selling the title.
• Lead the early design and Directed the prototype phase of development
• Created schedules, milestones and managed daily development of the project
• Managed all publisher and press relationships
• Negotiated contractual development milestones
• Managed a development team of over 30 very senior people through the early development stages of the project
• Evolved the game development process at the company

When I returned to work I was hoping that there would be a new project lined up for me.
There wasn’t, not really. I did some high level design for a potential new project but a few months later I realized that, given cutbacks and other things that it really seemed unlikely that the project I had been ‘assigned’ to was ever going to materialize. I can’t/won’t go into any other details other than to point to an old entry I made about this and reiterate: “I’m not the same person I was when I started, and BioWare isn’t the same company. ”

Modifié par Dexter111, 23 juin 2012 - 12:01 .

[Ninja Stan]

You're making a whole mess of assumptions and inferences that are patently incorrect, and making unfalsifiable claims regarding my former employer and former co-workers. Bottom line on my side is this: despite much hate and internet fervour, both BioWare and Electronics Arts are still around and still making games. They are also still companies, with employee turnover, project shuffling, and internal business decisions that people enjoy scrutinizing when they find out about them.

[Morroian]

IReuven wrote...

I hope it will be doomed at some point.

 
Why? Why not instead hope that the negative feedback on ME3 and DA2 will force them to  make improvements. And whys tick around here if you feel that way, unless you like the community in which case it will vanish if EA goes under not that teh community is that great any more which is a pity.

IReuven wrote...

Well to say at least, there is plenty of reason to dislike EA. Also I find funny a fact that EA seems more evil than Activision, when Activision apparently doesn't care about it's image mostly beacuse they can stick lable "At least we are not EA" under company name and BE JUST FINE.

Evil? Please get some perspective about what is a GAME company. As for Activision what they are doing on Diablo 3 is worse towards consumers than anything EA has done. 

[KDD-0063]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

How did that work out for you with Dragon Age 2 turning to mush and not selling at all even getting its expansion canned: http://www.gamebansh...rtunitiesq.html

DA2 sold well. Its expansion was cancelled for, as even the link to article says, "other DA opportunities." As a corporation, EA is much, much larger than DA, much larger even than BioWare Edmonton or the entire BioWare label. Even if it were true that Dragon Age 2 "turned to much" and "didn't sell at all," EA has many other studios and games in development and on sale. Company stocks aren't affected that much by the sales of one product in one line of one studio within one division. Shareholders aren't looking at individual BioWare Edmonton game releases and sales when deciding whether to buy or sell EA stock.

NBC isn't going to tank just because one of their pilots didn't make it to series, or that so many of their pilot concepts failed to even get developed. As a network, NBC is working on new concepts and series all the time, and have everything from tried and true series to mid-carders to new hopefuls. Like other media companies, NBC has not put all their hopes and money into just one project. Don't you think a large multi-studio publisher like EA would have the same kind of risk management?

With the Ultimate Edition cancelled because of "lack of retailer interest": http://www.gamebansh...isinterest.html
The Old Republic managing to half EAs market worth over the last year and turning Free2Play soon and the Mass Effect franchise largely turning to poo too (although you managed to keep the sales up, with it being the ending of the Trilogy and all that, but you'll see the impact on the next cash-in project in the Mass Effect universe)?

This is more an indication of your hate for EA than anything. The Old Republic is still selling, and the game is still being updated, and people are still playing and subscribing. Even if it does tank, it's not going to take all of EA with it. Again, EA will take a longer view of the game's performance and potential, and not react so negatively to one article or analysis, unlike some of the community members we have.

Not to forget how they fired 200 people from mostly the SWTOR team not too long ago: https://twitter.com/...007250765520898 and rationalized your own workplace away, yet in an amazingly pathetic display of Stockholm syndrome you're doing "volunteer work" for the company that fired your ass in the belief that they have some greater "master plan" and getting fired was apparently mostly your fault as you write because of a lack of "motivation", I'd rather guess you're in denial now than rather than then...: http://worstninjaeve...o-ware-yay.html

Yup, insults and more hyperbolic language will definitely encourage me to both listen to your arguments and want to agree with you. Debating: you're doing it wrong.

I don't know that EA has a "master plan" but they do have a plan that spans more time and requires more thought than "I've read a news article. PANIC!" Have you even worked for a corporation? The admin side of chain stores? Management or head office? Companies do way more planning than we give them credit for. They have to. They're dealing with millions of dollars, perhaps hundreds of employee futures, and dozens of departments, not to mention all that paperwork! Hell, I run an annual sci-fi festival and a semi-professional singing group and even those require a lot of planning. I was also working for BioWare for 11 year and saw what kind of planning was required.

We'll be here to tell you how terribly long-sighted your bosses and EA were 3-4 further years from now when BioWare doesn't even exist in name anymore, is just another corpse in the big pile of ex-developers and most of your friends also lost their jobs, it's just too bad you won't be here anymore to enjoy it...

Of course you will. Haters will continue to hate, because eventually, something they say will be true and they'll want to be there to rub it in our faces. Never mind that until that happens, all you're doing is spouting a number of vague predictions like Sylvia Browne and Nostradamus.

Keep in mind that, as a longtime Moderator of the BioWAre online community, I have seen haters come in to "predict" the company's downfall. I've seen it on every project since Neverwinter Nights. BioWare was going to fail because and NWN wasn't going to sell anything because NWN wasn't AD&D rules. Guess what, it's now one of the more popular and beloved BioWare games.

KotOR was going to kill the company and not going to sell because it was developed for console. It was also an action RPG, which, according to the haters, no one wanted to play and no one would accept it from BioWare. Guess what, KotOR is now considered not only one of BioWare's best games, but perhaps one of the best STar WArs games.

Jade Empire was going to fail and be BioWare's downfall because it was an original IP, a tremendous risk for the company. It sold well, not stellar, but well. These days, while the game isn't remembered by as many people as KotOR is, you can still see calls for a Jade Empire 2.

Mass Effect was going to fail because it went more into the action and shooter genres. Dragon Age Origins was long thought to be vapourware. Dragon Age 2 was supposed to tank BioWare as well. And so were the Mass Effect 3 endings. And ME3 multiplayer. And any kind of marketing, PR, or communication BioWare does is supposed to drive all the fans away. The acquisition of BioWare by EA was supposed to be the death knell for BioWare as a company too.

Instead, the Mass Effect trilogy has sold amazingly well and ME3 multiplayer has, I'm sure, exceeded BioWare's and EA's initial predictions of popularity and sales. Dragon Age Origins has become the RPG fan's modern classic. And after 4 years as an EA studio, BioWare is still around and still going strong. Heck, EA named an entire label after the company!

And all of that is just BioWare, never mind EA. Sure, you can look at the Westwoods, the Bullfrogs and Origin Systems, but then you also have to look at the EA Canadas and EA Tiburons, both of which were originally acquisitions.

If EA is going to fail, it's going to be because of bad decisions that affect the entire company, such as frittering away profitable licenses, failing to take advantage of the new digital marketplace and social gaming, or making things so difficult for its studios that they can't make games effectively anymore. It may also fail if many of their games from many of their studios fail to sell well.

If you actually want to discuss this, then cut out the hate rhetoric and use your brain meats to debate. If all you're going to do is hate, insult, and merely parrot mindless internet statements, then you'll likely discover just how much we try to discourage that sort of thing around here.

Thank you.

This logic is troubling. Because subpar products are profitable (probably due to lower cost), therefore they are successful and should be further produced?

Are we going to see another incredibly rushed game coming from Bioware?

Modifié par KDD-0063, 23 juin 2012 - 09:52 .

[ReshyShira]

Considering that they just blocked off all ME3 discussion to people who don't have a registered copy of ME3 it seems they're also trying to silence dissent.

[The Jackal]

Am I the only one that thing's it's strange that a Mod or even a Rep of Bioware would so openly engage in verbal debate against a poster on here. I do not recall anyone else that is even a mod or on the Bioware team let alone one that had worked so closely with them on projects openly debating in a heated passion things that really don't matter one way or another.

Just to clarify. No I am not bashing. I just find it odd. I really cannot be the only one. It's like the Owner of Blizzard debating back and forth with a poster on their forums. Can you imagine if one of the people on Blizzard team left, and came back and started open debates about "small things" with other posters.

It does not exactly shine a positive light on the company. Look at all the mods we have in this section 23 in total and I never seen anyone expect Chris say more then one sentence let alone all this. It just get's kinda silly after a while.

[Brockololly]

Ninja Stan wrote...
NBC isn't going to tank just because one of their pilots didn't make it to series, or that so many of their pilot concepts failed to even get developed. As a network, NBC is working on new concepts and series all the time, and have everything from tried and true series to mid-carders to new hopefuls.

That's an issue with big publishers now however- we're at the point in the console life cycle where no new IPs are going to see the light of day and no new concept games are being pushed forward. Instead big publishers are so incredibly risk averse the consumer just sees Medal of Duty 9: Modern WarFace Shootbang 6.  Count the number of games at E3 that have the exact same "cinematic" presentation of mouthy protagonist running forward towards the camera as plane/helicopter/building explodes behind them. Or said wise cracking protagonist is forced into a precarious position as the player is forced into a QTE of climbing up some falling train/vehicle/plane thats crashing to the ground. Its an industry of Uncharted clones and Call of Duty clones with big publishers like EA intent on producing fewer titles that have misguided aspirations to mythical Call of Duty and World of Warcraft numbers.

EA and other big publishers are only making "tried and true" copycat games that come across as focus tested to death, devoid of innovation or originality. You rarely see them trying anything thats not the equivalent of a Michael Bay blockbuster.

Ninja Stan wrote...
Like other media companies, NBC has not put all their hopes and money into just one project. Don't you think a large multi-studio publisher like EA would have the same kind of risk management?

And then you end up with something like TOR, which by most accounts is doing merely "ok" to "pretty good" but certainly isn't the massive blockbuster hit many investors were thinking it would be. Which calls into question the investment that was put forward into the game in the first place.

Its not only EA struggling- even in the OP's article, you see Take Two's stock nosediving and even Activision is below the Nasdaq average. You combine that with the upheaval new consoles will bring to the industry and all of the big supposed "AAA" publishers are in very precarious positions for the coming future.

JasonRocker wrote...
It's like the Owner of Blizzard debating back and forth with a poster on
their forums. Can you imagine if one of the people on Blizzard team
left, and came back and started open debates about "small things" with
other posters.
 

No offense to Mr. Woo, but its not like John Riccitiello or Peter Moore is the one posting in this thread.

Modifié par Brockololly, 23 juin 2012 - 03:16 .

[Rockworm503]

I don't think you actually played Uncharted to be able to say that with a straight face.
MW clones maybe.

[AlanC9]

Brockololly wrote...
And then you end up with something like TOR, which by most accounts is doing merely "ok" to "pretty good" but certainly isn't the massive blockbuster hit many investors were thinking it would be. Which calls into question the investment that was put forward into the game in the first place. 

Unrealistic investor expectations don't have anything to do with a product's profitability.

As for what the investors thought.... unless someone wants to try a hostile takeover of EA, that doesn't matter too much, does it?

[Gatt9]

Ninja Stan wrote...

You're making a whole mess of assumptions and inferences that are patently incorrect, and making unfalsifiable claims regarding my former employer and former co-workers. Bottom line on my side is this: despite much hate and internet fervour, both BioWare and Electronics Arts are still around and still making games. They are also still companies, with employee turnover, project shuffling, and internal business decisions that people enjoy scrutinizing when they find out about them.

You're still the master of spin Stan.  It's really impressive watching you drop half-truths and unfalsifiable claims while trying to accuse others of doing it.

You might want to step away from defending EA and take some time to assess the real impact of their "Revenue initiatives".  If you're not willing to do that,  then you might want to consider why even non-gamers recognize EA's in very deep trouble,  by virtue of the fact that the traded under $12/share today.

If everyone else can see it,  and you can't,  maybe the problem isn't everyone else.

[Gatt9]

AlanC9 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
And then you end up with something like TOR, which by most accounts is doing merely "ok" to "pretty good" but certainly isn't the massive blockbuster hit many investors were thinking it would be. Which calls into question the investment that was put forward into the game in the first place. 

Unrealistic investor expectations don't have anything to do with a product's profitability.

As for what the investors thought.... unless someone wants to try a hostile takeover of EA, that doesn't matter too much, does it?

1.  It's not unrealistic investor expectations to expect a game with ToR's budget to do better than a early 00's era MMORPG did. 

2.  A product that needs to keep users for years,  and doesn't look likely to be able to last a year,  isn't profitable.  You'll notice,  EA never mentioned how long they needed 500,000 subscribers to become profitable.  That could easily be over a 10 year life expectancy,  and probably was.

3.  It's enourmously important.  The shareholders can collectively force a CEO to leave.  The shareholders can sue the company in class action.  The shareholders can drag the stockprice down into penny range,  getting the company delisted from the NASDAQ,  and crushing their credit rating with the banks.  There's a great many things the shareholders can,  and probably will,  do.  You really don't want to trivialize how important it is that shareholders are starting to consider EA as big a waste as Gamers do.