164 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

General User wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
I think using sex to get information is clumsy and dangerous. Surveillance should be the goal, and hacking. Two things an AI ought to excel at. I think people overestimate the amount of sensitive intel that is shared in post-coital bliss. Nope, it's all about the snoopin'.

Post-coital is one thing.  PRE-coital is another.  Men get stupid around beautiful women if they think might get to sleep with them.  And when it comes to men who have information/access you want, stupider=better-er.   Then there's always post-coital blackmail. 

Using a beautiful woman to gather intelligence is one of those "tried and true since the dawn of time" things.  And there's a reason for that: it works.

So glad I'm female, and don't have to worry that my brain is going to fall out just because an attractive person walks by. 

[The Angry One]

Siansonea II wrote...

General User wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
I think using sex to get information is clumsy and dangerous. Surveillance should be the goal, and hacking. Two things an AI ought to excel at. I think people overestimate the amount of sensitive intel that is shared in post-coital bliss. Nope, it's all about the snoopin'.

Post-coital is one thing.  PRE-coital is another.  Men get stupid around beautiful women if they think might get to sleep with them.  And when it comes to men who have information/access you want, stupider=better-er.   Then there's always post-coital blackmail. 

Using a beautiful woman to gather intelligence is one of those "tried and true since the dawn of time" things.  And there's a reason for that: it works.

So glad I'm female, and don't have to worry that my brain is going to fall out just because an attractive person walks by. 

Certainly I would not be manipulated by someone I consider attractive.
But there are a lot of women out there who suffer brain failures with cute guys, and such. It's not as simple as male and female. If only it was, for then I could point and laugh and feel superior.

In other words, love and lust makes people stupid.

Modifié par The Angry One, 21 juin 2012 - 07:49 .

[tonnactus]

Edi was modelled after a former girlfriend of the illusive man.

[Blacklash93]

tonnactus wrote...

Edi was modelled after a former girlfriend of the illusive man.

And also looks nothing like her.

[Siansonea]

The Angry One wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

General User wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
I think using sex to get information is clumsy and dangerous. Surveillance should be the goal, and hacking. Two things an AI ought to excel at. I think people overestimate the amount of sensitive intel that is shared in post-coital bliss. Nope, it's all about the snoopin'.

Post-coital is one thing.  PRE-coital is another.  Men get stupid around beautiful women if they think might get to sleep with them.  And when it comes to men who have information/access you want, stupider=better-er.   Then there's always post-coital blackmail. 

Using a beautiful woman to gather intelligence is one of those "tried and true since the dawn of time" things.  And there's a reason for that: it works.

So glad I'm female, and don't have to worry that my brain is going to fall out just because an attractive person walks by. 

Certainly I would not be manipulated by someone I consider attractive.
But there are a lot of women out there who suffer brain failures with cute guys, and such. It's not as simple as male and female. If only it was, for then I could point and laugh and feel superior.

I have known such women too, but it's less of a trope than the drooling male spilling state secrets to the cartoonishly vixenesque femme fatale, and it's usually very young girls who fall into the female version of this pattern. Usually. From my observation, anyway. Most women who are old enough to have access to secrets worth protecting are not going to be naive enough to think that the young buck trying to seduce them doesn't have nefarious ulterior motives. Once we've got some years under our belts, we gals tend to be a little wiser than our male contemporaries, at least when it comes to the intentions of would-be seducers. But a man in the throes of his mid-life crisis? That hot chick just wants some of his lovin', she's not trying to get secrets out of him, no way! But she'll be impressed if he tells her those secrets, and no worries, the pretty little thing won't say anything. And who would take her seriously if she did? She's a mere slip of a girl, hardly a threat. I think "fish in a barrel" is the metaphor that works best here? 

Really, if we take General User's original point and take it to its natural conclusion, we should only entrust really sensitive secret information to older women. 

[EricHVela]

I was thinking early on that she would eventually get new skin plus clothes plus humanized voice and become Shepard's spy. After I saw which way the story was going, I realized that no such thing was going to happen.

Sex appeal means a lot in infiltration (not meaning the Infiltrator class), but having her run around with no clothes seemed weak. I get that her new freedom left her with a lot to learn (such as decency), but I feel that her design was more geared towards pandering to sex-starved kids than any good storytelling. I cannot place blame on anyone as it could be the writers that designed her, the modeling team that designed her or some 3rd party ordered more seckseh into the game in an attempt to appeal to a certain crowd.

Miranda's Cerberus Cheerleader outfit when she was trying to hide was a blinding flaw. (If Cerberus could not find Chambers, Miranda could likely move more easily with a change of identity, too.) When I noticed the ridiculous camera angles, I got the same idea about her as I did with the motives behind EDI's design.

It was some kind of service to certain players, but I felt it detracted (distracted) from the story. If the story surrounding those two had been better, teh seckseh as they implemented it would be really bad, but it only make a weak story worse. Still, I felt a little insulted that they would think that's all we would want from those two.

[bleetman]

Oh, is it time for another I'm-going-to-make-sweeping-generalisations-about-men-based-on-tiresome-tropes spree? Let's see.

It is!

Modifié par bleetman, 21 juin 2012 - 08:19 .

[Siansonea]

bleetman wrote...

Oh, is it time for another I'm-going-to-make-sweeping-generalisations-about-men-based-on-tiresome-tropes spree? Let's see.

It is!

We didn't start the fire. It was always burnin' since the world's been turnin'...

[General User]

Siansonea II wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

General User wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
I think using sex to get information is clumsy and dangerous. Surveillance should be the goal, and hacking. Two things an AI ought to excel at. I think people overestimate the amount of sensitive intel that is shared in post-coital bliss. Nope, it's all about the snoopin'.

Post-coital is one thing.  PRE-coital is another.  Men get stupid around beautiful women if they think might get to sleep with them.  And when it comes to men who have information/access you want, stupider=better-er.   Then there's always post-coital blackmail. 

Using a beautiful woman to gather intelligence is one of those "tried and true since the dawn of time" things.  And there's a reason for that: it works.

So glad I'm female, and don't have to worry that my brain is going to fall out just because an attractive person walks by. 

Certainly I would not be manipulated by someone I consider attractive.
But there are a lot of women out there who suffer brain failures with cute guys, and such. It's not as simple as male and female. If only it was, for then I could point and laugh and feel superior.

I have known such women too, but it's less of a trope than the drooling male spilling state secrets to the cartoonishly vixenesque femme fatale, and it's usually very young girls who fall into the female version of this pattern. Usually. From my observation, anyway. Most women who are old enough to have access to secrets worth protecting are not going to be naive enough to think that the young buck trying to seduce them doesn't have nefarious ulterior motives. Once we've got some years under our belts, we gals tend to be a little wiser than our male contemporaries, at least when it comes to the intentions of would-be seducers. But a man in the throes of his mid-life crisis? That hot chick just wants some of his lovin', she's not trying to get secrets out of him, no way! But she'll be impressed if he tells her those secrets, and no worries, the pretty little thing won't say anything. And who would take her seriously if she did? She's a mere slip of a girl, hardly a threat. I think "fish in a barrel" is the metaphor that works best here? 

Really, if we take General User's original point and take it to its natural conclusion, we should only entrust really sensitive secret information to older women. 

That would be taking my point to it's it's bizarre extreme conclusion.  The truth is that Archimedes was right: with the right lever you CAN move the world.  Everyone has their blindspots, their weaknesses.  "Attractive women" just happens to be a relatively common one for human males.

[Siansonea]

General User wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

General User wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
I think using sex to get information is clumsy and dangerous. Surveillance should be the goal, and hacking. Two things an AI ought to excel at. I think people overestimate the amount of sensitive intel that is shared in post-coital bliss. Nope, it's all about the snoopin'.

Post-coital is one thing.  PRE-coital is another.  Men get stupid around beautiful women if they think might get to sleep with them.  And when it comes to men who have information/access you want, stupider=better-er.   Then there's always post-coital blackmail. 

Using a beautiful woman to gather intelligence is one of those "tried and true since the dawn of time" things.  And there's a reason for that: it works.

So glad I'm female, and don't have to worry that my brain is going to fall out just because an attractive person walks by. 

Certainly I would not be manipulated by someone I consider attractive.
But there are a lot of women out there who suffer brain failures with cute guys, and such. It's not as simple as male and female. If only it was, for then I could point and laugh and feel superior.

I have known such women too, but it's less of a trope than the drooling male spilling state secrets to the cartoonishly vixenesque femme fatale, and it's usually very young girls who fall into the female version of this pattern. Usually. From my observation, anyway. Most women who are old enough to have access to secrets worth protecting are not going to be naive enough to think that the young buck trying to seduce them doesn't have nefarious ulterior motives. Once we've got some years under our belts, we gals tend to be a little wiser than our male contemporaries, at least when it comes to the intentions of would-be seducers. But a man in the throes of his mid-life crisis? That hot chick just wants some of his lovin', she's not trying to get secrets out of him, no way! But she'll be impressed if he tells her those secrets, and no worries, the pretty little thing won't say anything. And who would take her seriously if she did? She's a mere slip of a girl, hardly a threat. I think "fish in a barrel" is the metaphor that works best here? 

Really, if we take General User's original point and take it to its natural conclusion, we should only entrust really sensitive secret information to older women. 

That would be taking my point to it's it's bizarre extreme conclusion.  The truth is that Archimedes was right: with the right lever you CAN move the world.  Everyone has their blindspots, their weaknesses.  "Attractive women" just happens to be a relatively common one for human males.

Bizarre extreme conclusions are a staple of the BSN, you know that. 

[bleetman]

Siansonea II wrote...

We didn't start the fire. It was always burnin' since the world's been turnin'...{smilie}

I'm not even going to respond to that.

As far as the original question goes, well:



I'd have never given her a new body at all. It was needless and poorly justified. That said, I'm also entirely unconvinced that the sequence in which she was designed as such involved 'we want to give her a new body -> let's make it sexy', rather than giving her a body because they decided to make her 'sexy'.

Modifié par bleetman, 21 juin 2012 - 08:30 .

[moater boat]

I would have her look like the Normandy, because SHE WAS THE NORMANDY. Giving her a body, overly-sexualized or not, was a huge mistake that made no sense character-wise or plot-wise. Just one more way that Bioware dropped the ball.

[Peranor]

[The Angry One]

On getting a body at all. I had big dreams that EDI as the Normandy would become some sort of anti-Reaper, as she was made with parts from Sovereign. Her intelligence and abilities rising to their level to become a true counter.

Instead they made her yet another Pinnochio-bot just to advance their stupid, stupid techno Adam and Eve concept they lifted right out of Assassin's Creed.

[Beep Il]

EDI was just fine in ME2. But the developers chose the cameltoe way.

[Joe Del Toro]

The Angry One wrote...

On getting a body at all. I had big dreams that EDI as the Normandy would become some sort of anti-Reaper

Oh my god that would be awesome. That would actually sort of make the Normandy a fully developed character.

[DirtySHISN0]

I would give EDI the same body type/shape that all the females had in ME1.

EA brought 2 things to this games franchise;
Dumbing down,
inflation of assets.

[Siansonea]

The Angry One wrote...

On getting a body at all. I had big dreams that EDI as the Normandy would become some sort of anti-Reaper, as she was made with parts from Sovereign. Her intelligence and abilities rising to their level to become a true counter.

Instead they made her yet another Pinnochio-bot just to advance their stupid, stupid techno Adam and Eve concept they lifted right out of Assassin's Creed.

Yeah, I noticed that too. It grated on my nerves every time EDI sought out Shepard's advice on how to "please her man" and "get him to commit". Ugh. She was like Donna Reed in space.

[Helios969]

I was cool with EDI. Funest character to interact with for me. As far as her being oversexualized, that just puts her on par with like most everyone else. Besides, she is an "infiltration unit" so it kind of makes sense for her to have a body like that. Men are generally pretty stupid when it comes to hotness. (No, not all.)

[Peranor]

The Angry One wrote...

On getting a body at all. I had big dreams that EDI as the Normandy would become some sort of anti-Reaper, as she was made with parts from Sovereign. Her intelligence and abilities rising to their level to become a true counter.

Instead they made her yet another Pinnochio-bot just to advance their stupid, stupid techno Adam and Eve concept they lifted right out of Assassin's Creed.

I was thinking along those lines as well. At least I thought that she would have a much bigger role in the outcome of the game.

[jaktuk]

I just wanted to continue to let her be the Normandy and nothing else.

I would have preferred another squadmate from EDI by far.

[Lonsecia]

The idea of EDI and the Normandy becoming something better would have been a great idea. In fact it might have been an interesting situation to have in the game where EDI has the choice between being as close to human as she can get, and be with the man she loves (...) or pretty much as far removed from an organic as she can get, albeit saving the man she loves (and everyone else, for that matter). Admittedly that'd end up making the Normandy and EDI the main protagonist, but hell, it'd have been something.

[Volc19]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Well, at least they are consistant with the cameltoe.

[Dendio1]

The Angry One wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

General User wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
I think using sex to get information is clumsy and dangerous. Surveillance should be the goal, and hacking. Two things an AI ought to excel at. I think people overestimate the amount of sensitive intel that is shared in post-coital bliss. Nope, it's all about the snoopin'.

Post-coital is one thing.  PRE-coital is another.  Men get stupid around beautiful women if they think might get to sleep with them.  And when it comes to men who have information/access you want, stupider=better-er.   Then there's always post-coital blackmail. 

Using a beautiful woman to gather intelligence is one of those "tried and true since the dawn of time" things.  And there's a reason for that: it works.

So glad I'm female, and don't have to worry that my brain is going to fall out just because an attractive person walks by. 

Certainly I would not be manipulated by someone I consider attractive.
But there are a lot of women out there who suffer brain failures with cute guys, and such. It's not as simple as male and female. If only it was, for then I could point and laugh and feel superior.

In other words, love and lust makes people stupid.

To quote Kreia:

Lust is Erosion.