696 réponses à ce sujet

[Omnifarious Nef]

Oh wow, the Viper got a good buff! I love that gun, and will be able to use it more often now! I wonder how it will fair against my Valiant now?

[DeathIsHere]

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

JLoco11 wrote...
Why would I use a Turian Sentinel meatshield, who can't detonate a biotic, avoid a fireball or do an upload without getting picked up, when I get take an invisible Geth and see enemies across the map.  Fact is tactical cloak isn't overpowered, it's that other classes are at a disadvantage.

Why would you use one of the most versatile classes in the game on the hardest setting? Gee, I wonder why... oh, and he can detonate biotics, since Warp is both a biotic primer and detonator. If Cloak isn't overpowered, everything else is just at a disadvantage, then Claok must have an advantage, so it's more powerful than everything else... what?

Being more powerful =/= Overpowered. Don't know what gave you that assumption. Overpowered would mean it's so powerful it's unfair. TC does need a slight nerf, but I get the feeling this will be more than a slight nerf. They need to focus on bringing things UP to Gold level, rather than nerfing infiltrators out of Gold.

Good job I never said it was overpowered then, eh?  I was just pointing out the lack of logical progression in their last sentence.

Underlined sentence gave off the impression that you were saying it's OP, which is why I said that. All he said was that TC isn't overpowered, but rather everything else is at a disadvantage to cloak (which means they all need buffs, as opposed to nerfing TC). Somewhat right. A lot of things need buffs, TC needs a slight nerf, some things are fine as they are.

[ntrisley]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

This week's balance changes are now live and can be found here.

As a heads up to the community, we are reviewing Tactical Cloak for next week's balance changes. Our data shows that an overly large percentage of players are still using Infiltrators on Gold (33.6%). As always, we appreciate constructive feedback on this topic.

Constructive feedback, hm?

Well:
Attacking Tactical Cloak is attacking a symptom, not the disease.
The reason you'll see so many Infiltrators on Gold is a simple one: Tactical Cloak gives a way to deal with situations that might be otherwise irrecoverable. Things like the overwhelming Geth stunlock shenanigans now or the inevitable Phantom rush or the obscene range and line of sight on Ravagers.

Doing something about those will slowly but surely reduce the Infiltrator population.

It probably, as well, does not help that the "best" starting/easy to obtain characters are the two Human Infiltrators. The other classes have their shining examples (the Asari Adept/Justicar, the MQE, the SI, etc) but they're all either Rares and the Uncommon races are at times hard to actually obtain despite the Uncommon status due to the nature of the store system. It's not helped either by the fact that some of those races/classes mesh best with weapons/gear pieces which are actually hard to come by...

If either of those ways are looked at, you'll see a bit of a drop in the Infiltrator population and a shift towards the other classes.

[Darksaberexile]

Question for devs: Are there any plans to try to fix some of the glitches with TC as well as any other adjustments? (1 that comes to mind: Immediately decloaking after activating TC, even though no powers have been used or shots fired)

[SoulRebel_1979]

Nice, I use the HE and the QFE quite a bit as it is right now, can't wait to check em out later this weekend. Also, gonna give the Viper another shot...............on silver...

[frustratemyself]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

...As a heads up to the community, we are reviewing Tactical Cloak for next week's balance changes. Our data shows that an overly large percentage of players are still using Infiltrators on Gold (33.6%)...

God forbid other classes that aren't as fun or viable above bronze might get a buff to attract more people to use them.

[Kenadian]

frustratemyself wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

...As a heads up to the community, we are reviewing Tactical Cloak for next week's balance changes. Our data shows that an overly large percentage of players are still using Infiltrators on Gold (33.6%)...

God forbid other classes that aren't as fun or viable above bronze might get a buff to attract more people to use them.

Eric explained why that's not practical.

[CHAw]

Chris Schanche wrote...

I ran a few checks to confirm things for you folks.  Cryo Blast is correctly applying both its damage bonuses, as well as its armor reduction bonuses.  Giving it some level of damage bonus against normal enemies, and a more substantial one in most cases against armored targets.  I confirmed for you folks that its providing its damage bonus evolutions against unarmored targets as well as armored targets.

I compared with other powers as well, Cryo Blast can provide you a 25% damage bonus, before adding in armor weakness.  Warp provides a 15% damage bonus, before adding in armor weakness.  Cryo Blast may not be a point maker, but it certainly provides some strong utility to your team.

Happy hunting!

Thank you very much for checking this for us and clarifying the mechanics.

However, I would posit that Cryo Blast is still less effective than other, similar powers because the slow effect and larger damage vulnerability are not nearly as useful as the alternatives (e.g., Warp's innate damage and ability to both set up and detonate Biotic Explosions; Proximity Mine's innate damage, area of effect, and persistence).

[Jay Leon Hart]

DeathIsHere wrote...

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

JLoco11 wrote...
Why would I use a Turian Sentinel meatshield, who can't detonate a biotic, avoid a fireball or do an upload without getting picked up, when I get take an invisible Geth and see enemies across the map.  Fact is tactical cloak isn't overpowered, it's that other classes are at a disadvantage.

Why would you use one of the most versatile classes in the game on the hardest setting? Gee, I wonder why... oh, and he can detonate biotics, since Warp is both a biotic primer and detonator. If Cloak isn't overpowered, everything else is just at a disadvantage, then Cloak must have an advantage, so it's more powerful than everything else... what?

Being more powerful =/= Overpowered. Don't know what gave you that assumption. Overpowered would mean it's so powerful it's unfair. TC does need a slight nerf, but I get the feeling this will be more than a slight nerf. They need to focus on bringing things UP to Gold level, rather than nerfing infiltrators out of Gold.

Good job I never said it was overpowered then, eh?  I was just pointing out the lack of logical progression in their last sentence.

Underlined sentence gave off the impression that you were saying it's OP, which is why I said that. All he said was that TC isn't overpowered, but rather everything else is at a disadvantage to cloak (which means they all need buffs, as opposed to nerfing TC). Somewhat right. A lot of things need buffs, TC needs a slight nerf, some things are fine as they are.

Bolded part is the reason I typed the underlined part - also, it highlighted my "Claok" type, now fixed

I agree with you though, lots of things do need buffs and Cloak does need tuning down a little - I say this as an Infiltrator player.

[Cookiegobbler]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We are reviewing Tactical Cloak for next week's balance changes. As always, we appreciate constructive feedback on this topic.

The moment you nerf this power, I will stop playing.

[Kuato Livezz]

Batarian Sentinel w/ Viper. A new dawn of raw power.

[hippojoe]

Kenadian wrote...

frustratemyself wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

...As a heads up to the community, we are reviewing Tactical Cloak for next week's balance changes. Our data shows that an overly large percentage of players are still using Infiltrators on Gold (33.6%)...

God forbid other classes that aren't as fun or viable above bronze might get a buff to attract more people to use them.

Eric explained why that's not practical.

riight. this part of mp  is quite fun to many people, possibly too fun, at least compared to other parts.

well, it would cost too much to make the rest of the game as fun, so lets just make that part less fun, that's what people want, less fun.....right?

Modifié par hippojoe, 22 juin 2012 - 12:35 .

[molecularman]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Razerath wrote...

saxybeast418 wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

It's clear that there is more going on than player preference for sniper classes, since Infiltrators are being used 20.43% of the time on Silver, and 15.18% of the time on Bronze.

This is very interesting. If tactical cloak was really the source of the problem, wouldn't the overuse of infiltrators be across all difficulties instead primarily Gold (and to a lesser extent Silver)?

Perhaps I'm misreading the data, but this seems to indicate not that Infiltrators are overperforming, but that the other classes are underperforming.

+1 Eric please reply to this! I'd like to know your opinion on why Infiltrators shine on Gold.

Is it because TCloak can provide ( combined with the right weapons ) the best way to beat Gold and farm some credits?

Well in my opinion Tactical Cloak is hugely popular (especially on Gold) because it gives you massive damage bonuses AND great utility and survivability. We don't have any other power quite like that. It's a great power and we're glad people like it, but it is way more powerful than probably any other power in the game. We've generally tried to buff other classes and powers but it's clear that we would have to make signficant additional balance changes to huge numbers of abilities (and the enemies to compensate) in order to match Cloak's power, and that is something we just don't have the manpower for.

/thread

Modifié par molecularman, 22 juin 2012 - 12:34 .

[vonSlash]

NeferiusX3 wrote...

Oh wow, the Viper got a good buff! I love that gun, and will be able to use it more often now! I wonder how it will fair against my Valiant now?

Viper X damage is slightly less than Valiant I. Valiant still shoots twice as quickly, however, which will keep it clearly preferred by Infiltrators. On non-Infiltrators, Viper might start being used occasionally, due to its low weight and acceptable damage, however.

[Wordlywisewiz]

How about you just give all other classes double health and shields? That would make it nice and balanced

[landylan]

Cookiegobbler wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We are reviewing Tactical Cloak for next week's balance changes. As always, we appreciate constructive feedback on this topic.

The moment you nerf this power, I will stop playing.

youre a single player....one power isn't a big deal either. the nerf will most likely be unnoticeable anyways. just like the hunter mode nerf. just shoot a few more bullets.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

As a frequent Gethfiltrator player that does NOT exploit the broken nonsense of Sniper spam with his Geth Infiltrator, I'm worried about the prospect of a cloak nerf. It has the potential to undermine a lot of the class's potential given its exceptionally poor survivability if adjustments to it are not handled with care.

Nerf Tactical Cloak if you absolutely must, but don't take it out on the rest of us who've been playing Infiltrator without being a legion of Krysae-spamming fuggbuckets.

[GodlessPaladin]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

T1l wrote...

Barneyk wrote...

Isn't sniper overpowered in most games?

Depends on which game and your definition of 'overpowered'. I'm just curious why Eric mentioned stats on Gold specifically as if it were something out of the norm. I honestly don't think the representation of snipers is out of line with what should be expected of any online shooter.

It's clear that there is more going on than player preference for sniper classes, since Infiltrators are being used 20.43% of the time on Silver, and 15.18% of the time on Bronze.

Besides, sniper lovers would actually have cause to celebrate if TC's rank 6 multiplier was reduced and sniper rifles buffed to compensate (except for the Krysae, which is too good with TC and pretty much fine on everyone else).  Lots more options that way.  After all, there is no "assault rifle class" or "pistol class" or "shotgun class" or "smg class" that has a 40% more powerful version of the weapon than everyone else (and we mean 1.4x everything.  It's not an additive bonus like most others in the game).  

The need to balance sniper rifles around that makes them underpowered weapons for every class besides Infiltrator, narrowing the options for players who enjoy sniper rifles.  There's an entire category of guns that only Infiltrators get much use out of, contrary to every other category of weapons (which,  I might add, also work great on Infiltrators).

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 22 juin 2012 - 12:43 .

[holdenagincourt]

Kuato Livezz wrote...

Batarian Sentinel w/ Viper. A new dawn of raw power.

ORLY?

I just unlocked Bat Sent last night and have been thinking of builds. Maybe I'll try this out. (Unless you're being sarcastic )

[ntrisley]

Eric Fagnan wrote...
Well in my opinion Tactical Cloak is hugely popular (especially on Gold) because it gives you massive damage bonuses AND great utility and survivability. We don't have any other power quite like that. It's a great power and we're glad people like it, but it is way more powerful than probably any other power in the game. We've generally tried to buff other classes and powers but it's clear that we would have to make signficant additional balance changes to huge numbers of abilities (and the enemies to compensate) in order to match Cloak's power, and that is something we just don't have the manpower for.

Honestly...this feels like a copout.

This is no different than what I've inevitably seen on various MMOs with stealth-based classes.
They overperform in one specific area, and then the complaints start rolling in about it because people begin flocking to the stealth based class in that one specific area because they saw it on the interwebs.

Nerf the Krysae and watch the Infiltrator population in Gold and Silver drop.

[Razerath]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Razerath wrote...

saxybeast418 wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

T1l wrote...

Barneyk wrote...

Isn't sniper overpowered in most games?

Depends on which game and your definition of 'overpowered'. I'm just curious why Eric mentioned stats on Gold specifically as if it were something out of the norm. I honestly don't think the representation of snipers is out of line with what should be expected of any online shooter.

It's clear that there is more going on than player preference for sniper classes, since Infiltrators are being used 20.43% of the time on Silver, and 15.18% of the time on Bronze.

This is very interesting. If tactical cloak was really the source of the problem, wouldn't the overuse of infiltrators be across all difficulties instead primarily Gold (and to a lesser extent Silver)?

Perhaps I'm misreading the data, but this seems to indicate not that Infiltrators are overperforming, but that the other classes are underperforming.

+1 Eric please reply to this! I'd like to know your opinion on why Infiltrators shine on Gold.

Is it because TCloak can provide ( combined with the right weapons ) the best way to beat Gold and farm some credits?

Well in my opinion Tactical Cloak is hugely popular (especially on Gold) because it gives you massive damage bonuses AND great utility and survivability. We don't have any other power quite like that. It's a great power and we're glad people like it, but it is way more powerful than probably any other power in the game. We've generally tried to buff other classes and powers but it's clear that we would have to make signficant additional balance changes to huge numbers of abilities (and the enemies to compensate) in order to match Cloak's power, and that is something we just don't have the manpower for.

I wish you could buff everything else up to TCloaks usefulness. That is truly the answer and I think we both know it. There will always be a top dog, mess with TCloak enough and you'll suddenly see 30% of Gold players using Adrenaline Rush. The fact that Infiltrators can do almost everything without a team is a credit to a team when you're on it.

If the problem is not having enough manpower what can a fan do to help? Seriously unless you need people to come input information into your computers you have a lot of help from these forums. I'd utilize it for people's opinions and at the very least brain-storming. I for one wouldn't be bothered by a PM from you asking my opinion about Prox Mines I even pointed out a few spots for turrets to go that would really screw us all to Mr. Hendricks last time we played.

[Wordlywisewiz]

Krogans and other things more health.... And shields or faster shield regeneration for them to be good against infiltrators....

I know how you can learn to balance better make a private pvp setup in your office see who wins lol

[kmmd60]

This week buff is great. An overhaul in both Drone and Sentry turret is much welcomed. However, I still get a bit suspicious about the balance delay, actually it shouldn't be this long. Perhaps some ninja balance BW?

Viper buff is nice but Incisor buff is more needed. It's still useless on silver.

And finally, The infamous Fagnan Dart hits the spot.

TC balance next week will blow many players out of the water. I've seen many poor infiltrators in the lobbies so many times. Perhaps they believe that TC is a magic shield that can be used to dump agro on other players + damage boost for sniper/shotgun only.

looking forward to it, let TC be more "tactical" Mr. Fagnan.

[Master Xanthan]

I just thought of something.....the tactical cloak nerf will cancel out the viper buff. So might as well go back to ignoring the viper.