696 réponses à ce sujet

[Y2Kevin]

Nerfing the class that most people are playing as doesn't seem like the best idea. How about buffing other classes to make them more viable options on Gold?

[Havocmasta]

Good show, sir, good show.

[Immortal Strife]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

This week's balance changes are now live and can be found here.

As a heads up to the community, we are reviewing Tactical Cloak for next week's balance changes. Our data shows that an overly large percentage of players are still using Infiltrators on Gold (33.6%). As always, we appreciate constructive feedback on this topic.

I haven't read the whole post so this may have been stated previously, the statistics that show character use is somewhat in accurate by the fact that Vanguards can't be used effectively or as often due to the floating glitch.

[frustratemyself]

Kenadian wrote...

frustratemyself wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

...As a heads up to the community, we are reviewing Tactical Cloak for next week's balance changes. Our data shows that an overly large percentage of players are still using Infiltrators on Gold (33.6%)...

God forbid other classes that aren't as fun or viable above bronze might get a buff to attract more people to use them.

Eric explained why that's not practical.

Ah, I only just saw that post from Eric.

I know the devs can't take absolutely every miniscule thing into consideration when they are creating this stuff but it does make me wonder what their thought processes were in the first place.

[BabyfaceAssassin]

Eric Fagnan wrote...


As a heads up to the community, we are reviewing Tactical Cloak for next week's balance changes. Our data shows that an overly large percentage of players are still using Infiltrators on Gold (33.6%). As always, we appreciate constructive feedback on this topic.

...Winter is coming.

O_O

Modifié par BabyfaceAssassin, 22 juin 2012 - 01:15 .

[Blind2Society]

hippojoe wrote...

riight. this part of mp  is quite fun to many people, possibly too fun, at least compared to other parts.

well, it would cost too much to make the rest of the game as fun, so lets just make that part less fun, that's what people want, less fun.....right?

That's pretty much how I took it as well.

And let's examine this "manpower" thing shall we? If all these weekly balance changes are just basically coalesced changes why is it that BioWare doesn't have the man power? It seems to me that one competent person with a coalesced editor could do it in a week, and that's including searching for the relevant values that need to be changed. And if it's simply coming up with the right things to change and how, look at what the Balance all the things thread did in a couple of days.

It just doesn't seem like a legit argument to me. But then again, I'm certainly not an expert.

[revizion]

Can someone please explain to me the reason behind nerfing something that the community obviously enjoys doing? Yes, I play Infiltrator. A lot. Why? Because the other classes (save the AA/AJ) don't fit a play style I consider fun.

I guess that's the problem I have with being a slave to "balance." Yes, I understand the reasoning behind it; we want the game to be fun for all players. But deliberately altering the style of one group - regardless of size - for the worse, can't be the solution.

Why not improve other classes? Make them more viable. Present new and interesting powers. Create a character that synergizes with the styles that a large majority of the community are already running. Uplift instead of tearing down.

's all I'm saying.

[Mozts]

Master Xanthan wrote...

I just thought of something.....the tactical cloak nerf will cancel out the viper buff. So might as well go back to ignoring the viper.

What about the Asari Snipers?

[Wordlywisewiz]

If you nerf infiltrators then you need to make the enemies weaker by that or close to that percentage not damage wise but health wise anyways....

[CountSnackula]

-Nerf the rocket launcher, er, I mean Krysae. Or hell, just get rid of it. It's fun, but it's also silly. Might be livable with a smaller explosion radius or two shots before reloading.
-Lower enemy dodge rates against biotic abilities and undo the biotic explosion radius nerf.
-Increase most assault rifles' damage.

Oh, and fix SMG ultralight materials, for the love of...

[ntrisley]

Mozts wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

I just thought of something.....the tactical cloak nerf will cancel out the viper buff. So might as well go back to ignoring the viper.

What about the Asari Snipers?

What about them?

They're part of the problem too. Stasis Snipers are an obnoxious blight upon the game, and a perfect example of what other posters are citing when they mention "Players will use whatever lets them do it easiest/with the least risk against reward".

If you want to see a big difference in the game; have cash rewarded based upon what wave you're on not the objectives being met.

As it stands, you can feasibly get knocked out of a match on Bronze, Silver, or Gold at Wave 3 and receive 0 Credits. That's not right.

[Blind2Society]

ntrisley wrote...

have cash rewarded based upon what wave you're on not the objectives being met.

As it stands, you can feasibly get knocked out of a match on Bronze, Silver, or Gold at Wave 3 and receive 0 Credits. That's not right.

This is something I wholeheartedly agree with. Credits should be given per wave with increasing amounts as waves increase.

The creds rewarded should also be

33k for bronze (1 JEP)
60k for silver (1 SP)
99k for gold (1 PSP)

Modifié par Blind2Society, 22 juin 2012 - 12:57 .

[Master Xanthan]

CountSnackula wrote...

-Nerf the rocket launcher, er, I mean Krysae. Or hell, just get rid of it. It's fun, but it's also silly. Might be livable with a smaller explosion radius or two shots before reloading.
-Lower enemy dodge rates against biotic abilities and undo the biotic explosion radius nerf.
-Increase most assault rifles' damage.

Oh, and fix SMG ultralight materials, for the love of...

Krysae was already nerfed. I agree on the other 3 points, though.

[Mozts]

ntrisley wrote...

Mozts wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

I just thought of something.....the tactical cloak nerf will cancel out the viper buff. So might as well go back to ignoring the viper.

What about the Asari Snipers?

What about them?

They're part of the problem too. Stasis Snipers are an obnoxious blight upon the game, and a perfect example of what other posters are citing when they mention "Players will use whatever lets them do it easiest/with the least risk against reward".

If you want to see a big difference in the game; have cash rewarded based upon what wave you're on not the objectives being met.

As it stands, you can feasibly get knocked out of a match on Bronze, Silver, or Gold at Wave 3 and receive 0 Credits. That's not right.

"cloak nerf will cancel Viper buff"

You can use snipers in every class. That the only thing I said. 

[Wordlywisewiz]

Yes screw the objectives ditch them all together and give credits based on waves completed increasing by a certain amount each time up to wave 99 that is impossible to beat

[TMB903]

no need to mess with TC..its what makes a whole class relevant and I really think most of the people who regularly play Gold with an Infiltrator are somewhat new to the MP

[Barneyk]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Well in my opinion Tactical Cloak is hugely popular (especially on Gold) because it gives you massive damage bonuses AND great utility and survivability.

AND you can still utilize another great power, like energy drain, proximity mine, cryo blast etc.

TC is like a tripple-power all in one.

I really like it, I am not sure on how I would like to balance it.
But I do see a need to balance it.

[Edalborez]

As an Infiltrator-lover myself, I look forward to seeing what the developers have in store. The panic of the superstitious masses is quite funny to watch, especially since we should all know by now that BioWare does not listen mindlessly to nerf-mongers. They love Cloak too, so don't expect it to completely suck post-"adjustment".

And believe lowly me, Inf's deserve an adjustment.

[Master Xanthan]

Mozts wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

Mozts wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

I just thought of something.....the tactical cloak nerf will cancel out the viper buff. So might as well go back to ignoring the viper.

What about the Asari Snipers?

What about them?

They're part of the problem too. Stasis Snipers are an obnoxious blight upon the game, and a perfect example of what other posters are citing when they mention "Players will use whatever lets them do it easiest/with the least risk against reward".

If you want to see a big difference in the game; have cash rewarded based upon what wave you're on not the objectives being met.

As it stands, you can feasibly get knocked out of a match on Bronze, Silver, or Gold at Wave 3 and receive 0 Credits. That's not right.

"cloak nerf will cancel Viper buff"

You can use snipers in every class. That the only thing I said. 

You can use snipers on any class, but why would you? Infiltrators are best with them, even after the TC nerf infiltrators will still be the best with snipers (and arguably shotguns).

[Blind2Society]

Wordlywisewiz wrote...

Yes screw the objectives ditch them all together and give credits based on waves completed increasing by a certain amount each time up to wave 99 that is impossible to beat

[element eater]

if they think tc is far to good compared to other powers, it begs the question why did they make the biotics so much less effective when they were the only thing close to tc in terms of effectiveness?

Modifié par element eater, 22 juin 2012 - 01:09 .

[Wordlywisewiz]

Infiltrators are best with assault rifles to

try a level 5 cerberus harrier with an infiltrator I beat someone with a rocket (exploding sniper)

[Mozts]

Master Xanthan wrote...

You can use snipers on any class, but why would you? Infiltrators are best with them, even after the TC nerf infiltrators will still be the best with snipers (and arguably shotguns).

Because they like other classes? People snipe with vanguards, viper buff is not "canceled" by Cloak nerf because not everyone is a infiltrator. 72.4% to be precise:lol:

[T1l]

saxybeast418 wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

T1l wrote...

Barneyk wrote...

Isn't sniper overpowered in most games?

Depends on which game and your definition of 'overpowered'. I'm just curious why Eric mentioned stats on Gold specifically as if it were something out of the norm. I honestly don't think the representation of snipers is out of line with what should be expected of any online shooter.

It's clear that there is more going on than player preference for sniper classes, since Infiltrators are being used 20.43% of the time on Silver, and 15.18% of the time on Bronze.

This is very interesting. If tactical cloak was really the source of the problem, wouldn't the overuse of infiltrators be across all difficulties instead primarily Gold (and to a lesser extent Silver)?

Perhaps I'm misreading the data, but this seems to indicate not that Infiltrators are overperforming, but that the other classes are underperforming.

I'm a bit late coming back to this party, but this is what I would conclude from those statistics as well. The benifit of damage mitigation/avoidance is what draws people to the class on Gold. Other classes do not have that luxury. It's also what draws people to 'sniper' type classes in the first place. Hanging back and keeping out of danger is some peoples preference in online shooters.

Again, I don't think these stats are out of line with other online shooters. This is what is to be expected when risk goes up - people opt for ways of getting around putting themselves in danger; sniping/tactical cloak is one of those options.

Thanks for the reply, Eric. Much appreciated. I wish you'd post more hard facts like these. Very interesting.

Y2Kevin wrote...

Nerfing the class that most people are playing as doesn't seem like the best idea. How about buffing other classes to make them more viable options on Gold?

Bingo. This is what I'd like to see as well.

Modifié par T1l, 22 juin 2012 - 01:12 .